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Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:03 PM

Wow. With all these NSA revelations rolling in Obama's legacy may not be Obamacare.

He may go down in history as the Orwellian Big Brother president who destroyed personal privacy if he's not careful.

Nixon thought he would go down in history as the president that opened up China to the world but it didn't quite work out that way.
Obama is in danger of the same kind of thing.

A serious betrayal of the public trust and Constitutional law could overshadow anything else he accomplishes.
The right hasn't caught on yet that this is becoming Obama's achilles heel but if they do, look out.

He'd better start reconsidering his opinion of Snowden pretty soon because I'm pretty sure that history will.

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Reply Wow. With all these NSA revelations rolling in Obama's legacy may not be Obamacare. (Original post)
Kablooie Aug 2013 OP
Th1onein Aug 2013 #1
ProSense Aug 2013 #2
NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #10
sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #15
Rex Aug 2013 #25
bbgrunt Aug 2013 #78
last1standing Aug 2013 #61
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #83
Fringe Aug 2013 #94
Kablooie Aug 2013 #21
nebenaube Aug 2013 #37
Fearless Aug 2013 #68
Savannahmann Aug 2013 #76
Aerows Aug 2013 #84
Fringe Aug 2013 #91
1awake Aug 2013 #3
DJ13 Aug 2013 #4
geek tragedy Aug 2013 #5
Kablooie Aug 2013 #22
uponit7771 Aug 2013 #66
Fumesucker Aug 2013 #6
FirstLight Aug 2013 #33
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #79
ucrdem Aug 2013 #7
LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #12
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #16
tavalon Aug 2013 #35
ucrdem Aug 2013 #19
stevenleser Aug 2013 #31
LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #93
Aerows Aug 2013 #86
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #26
ucrdem Aug 2013 #30
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #34
ucrdem Aug 2013 #36
tavalon Aug 2013 #40
ucrdem Aug 2013 #44
tavalon Aug 2013 #38
nebenaube Aug 2013 #41
ucrdem Aug 2013 #46
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #56
uponit7771 Aug 2013 #67
progressoid Aug 2013 #8
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #62
Hydra Aug 2013 #9
MuseRider Aug 2013 #13
Kablooie Aug 2013 #23
truebluegreen Aug 2013 #11
JaneyVee Aug 2013 #14
DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #17
ProSense Aug 2013 #18
SunSeeker Aug 2013 #59
Hydra Aug 2013 #20
tavalon Aug 2013 #43
Cha Aug 2013 #24
Zoeisright Aug 2013 #27
Just Saying Aug 2013 #32
Kablooie Aug 2013 #39
Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #85
Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #28
Divernan Aug 2013 #50
Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #55
Dawson Leery Aug 2013 #29
Kablooie Aug 2013 #42
nebenaube Aug 2013 #45
lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #77
CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #47
nebenaube Aug 2013 #48
CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #71
Divernan Aug 2013 #73
mick063 Aug 2013 #49
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #57
DeSwiss Aug 2013 #51
Safetykitten Aug 2013 #52
Just Saying Aug 2013 #53
Kablooie Aug 2013 #63
Fringe Aug 2013 #95
quakerboy Aug 2013 #54
Safetykitten Aug 2013 #58
uponit7771 Aug 2013 #70
Aerows Aug 2013 #87
quakerboy Aug 2013 #88
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #69
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #60
creeksneakers2 Aug 2013 #64
ThoughtCriminal Aug 2013 #65
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #72
ThoughtCriminal Aug 2013 #74
spin Aug 2013 #80
lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #75
pnwmom Aug 2013 #81
Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #82
NYC_SKP Aug 2013 #89
Fringe Aug 2013 #90
Coyotl Aug 2013 #92

Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:08 PM

1. You're right, Kablooie.

This story has the legs of a millipede. It AIN'T going away. Americans are not going to put up with being spied on. And Obama is in danger of having this as his legacy, instead of Obamacare. What a shame.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:09 PM

2. "He'd better start reconsidering his opinion of Snowden pretty soon"

This NSA incident is not going to remotely be "Obama's legacy."

Not remotely.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:30 PM

10. Those on the right would surely love to see this be Obama's legacy...

 

...I wish the left would stop "helping" so much.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:37 PM

15. How is the 'left' helping to do anything about this? The 'left' didn't choose Clapper,

first to be the Director of Intelligence. This leftie would have chosen a Democrat eg. The 'left' didn't appoint Clapper to oversee the choosing of the 'Independent' committee to begin looking into all of this.

This leftie would have chosen Ron Wyden or some other Democrat.

It's getting ridiculous to try to keep blaming other people for decisions this President makes.

Do YOU agree with all the Republicans he has placed in positions of power in his Cabinet? If we wanted Republicans in positions of power, we would have voted for them. We didn't.

This leftie would have chosen a Democrat for SOD eg. I have faith that we have Democrats who could fill these rolls.

Right wingers have pointed out to me that this President 'knows that Democrats can't take care of our Security so even he has to turn to Republicans'. Do you know how it feels to have fought agaisnt this meme for over a decade and then have to try to defend these decisions?

I don't defend them anymore, because I can't.

WE are being undermined, not the President.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:22 PM

25. That is a RWing talking point, ask them and they have no answer.

 

Blaming the Left has kept them in a cozy state of denial for years...must suck coming to some simple conclusions you don't want to discuss on a discussion board. Let them knee jerk. That is all that is left.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:14 PM

78. well said and so true!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:51 PM

61. I wish Obama would stop "helping" so much.

It's a lazy argument to blame the messenger instead of the culprit.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:30 AM

83. He does not need our help. He is doing a great job of messing this up on his own.

I have been a huge supporter of this President. I was sure he was going to go left after this last election esp after the campaign. I have given up on him now. I still can't believe he sent McCain and LG to Egypt. Good grief, we have plenty of great Dems who should have been sent. That is one of a hundred odd and disappointing things he has done. He could have been the best President this country has ever had. He really could have been.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:44 AM

94. They can't help it. It's an obsession or maybe possession?

24/7 Obama hate. I can even imagine their heads spinning around while they type.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:48 PM

21. If he tries to cover up the spying and doesn't do anything to correct it, it might.

So far he has given the impression that he is complicit in the illegal spying.
He may not be but his actions so far have done nothing to correct that impression.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

37. it will have a much bigger impact than you think

 

your assertions not withstanding...

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:01 AM

68. Those actions which took place under his presidency will actually.

And those that didn't will not.

That's how these things work.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 11:48 AM

76. Indeed?

 

How can you make such a statement with a straight face? Every ten days or so another revelation comes out from the plethora of documents that Snowden gave to the reporters. We couldn't get lucky enough for Greenwald to hold the remainder for a book as was mentioned before. At least then the revelations would come all at once, and only one or two would be significantly outrageous enough to garner attention, the rest lost in the flood of data.

President Obama's popularity continues to decline, and eventually he's going to be left with the core groups of the Democratic Party. But one of those groups is people like myself who continue to believe that Civil Rights is an important issue. How long before we can no longer honestly answer that we approve of President Obama's actions when we are polled? More and more of us are.

What do we do if Republicans get more stature in the Senate and hold onto the House? Do you realize that the Republicans need only take six more Senate seats to control that chamber? Then all the tea party cuts to Government will be the choice of President Obama. Sign them, or shut the Government down. How much will he have to sacrifice to keep what he can't afford to lose?

Then you'll have Rand Paul on the hunt for the Oval Office, playing up the NSA spying all the time, demanding that information that is being withheld, be released. He may even release some himself on the floor of the Senate, where the Constitution says he has the right to debate it. Oh sure, we can piss and moan about his violating security, but other than that we would be left with another pile of crap to chew on.

I don't think you realize that this is the most dangerous time our party has faced since Ronald Reagan. At least with President Clinton's scandal, we had the argument that everyone would lie about cheating. We can't say that everyone would read and listen communications if they could. If anyone else did it they would go to jail for wiretapping.

ProSense, we have to decide what is good for our party long term. Holding onto the millstone of NSA spying as it drags us to the depths of disaster is not a good policy. Let the jackass Republicans argue we need to spy on the American People, we need to come out in favor of and as the staunchest defenders of Human Rights that the nation has ever seen. If we continue to join with the same jackass Republicans we say are wrong on every other issue, holding hands and linking arms with them for the authority to spy on Americans, how do we extricate ourselves when even the most determined defenders of the party realize it is a bad idea? How do we run against them in fifteen months when all we can offer as a party is that we totally agree with them on NSA spying, we just think they're assholes on other issues?

Think it through. Not just what excuses we're going to have to use today, or tomorrow, but where we'll be in a year praying that we don't lose the Senate. Because if we are very smart, and a little lucky, we might be able to. Holding onto this millstone? We're going to lose it to the Paulites in the Rethug party.

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Response to Savannahmann (Reply #76)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:37 AM

84. Excellent post

 

and very well said.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:34 AM

91. Exactly.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:11 PM

3. This WILL be his legacy,

depending on which road he chooses to walk will determine which way he is remembered.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:13 PM

4. He has a narrowing window to claim these were left over programs from Bush

And attempt to make headway in ending many of them, but the longer he waivers and misstates the reach of the programs the more they become his programs.

And his legacy will be damaged.

He has to start being upfront with people, though a part of me thinks these programs now have too much importance to the elites, so he may not be allowed to deal with them in any meaningful way.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:17 PM

5. Only in a reality-deprived bubble.

 

Obamacare will always be the bigger story. It's a much bigger story today, and affects many million more lives.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:51 PM

22. It depends on his responses to the ongoing NSA revelations.

If he is seen as being supportive of illegal spying it could overshadow everything else, especially if the GOP decides it will be a win for them.
That's why I hope he takes control of the situation instead of simply denying it exists.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:57 AM

66. for fudr yes, without 15th the 4th is useless

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:18 PM

6. A couple of points..

First; How will anyone know? If the Orwellian state gets to the point of a Memory Hole that's the end of history, Obama will have the legacy he chooses.

Second; The right will have a hard time attacking Obama on this because a lot of them are too wrapped up in fapping off to fevered dreams of total and universal surveillance. Oh, they'll make a pro-forma attack or thirty but their hearts won't be in it.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:35 PM

33. + a brazillion!

sad, but true. Especially the part about the Memory Hole...

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:17 PM

79. history is written by those who win.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:23 PM

7. Here's how I see it so far:

In 4-1/2 years Obama completely transformed the US intel landscape -- for the better. Where once there was opacity and silence there is now transparency and determination to keep fixing problems until everything is all straightened out.

How many internal compliance audits "leaked" out of the Bushler NSA, for example? Do you think they ever bothered to conduct one? Or to answer FOIA requests for incident reports naming Noam Chomsky?

It's a whole new world and Snowball doesn't like it. Neither did Manning. So under bad advice they both thought they'd drop a dime on Obama and bring down the house. Unsurprisingly, they both failed.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:31 PM

12. Reality said to say hi

and wonders why you never come over anymore.

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:41 PM

16. Recommended for a DUzy award

 

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:47 PM

35. Damn, you beat me to it.

We're all entitled to our own opinions. Facts, OTOH, are facts and we don't get to change them any more than the Bush Maladministration did.

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:43 PM

19. I like my side of the pond I guess. . .

But your side is likeable enough.

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:30 PM

31. Reality called back and said the original call was for you. nt

 

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:37 AM

93. Wow, you need to try again

That's a half-step below "I know you are but what am I?"

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:39 AM

86. Duzy! n/t

 

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:23 PM

26. Transparency as clear as a mudbath... uh huh.

 

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:28 PM

30. How many E.O. 12333 quarterly compliance audits did the Bush-Cheney NSA conduct,

let alone leak? Come on. We weren't even allowed to discuss the NSA publicly and now it's the subject of afternoon chat shows.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #30)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:40 PM

34. Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak. Transparency... leak.

 

Do those two really go together? I've tried and tried and can't for the life of me make them fit together.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:49 PM

36. The point is that the "leaks" keep showing the thing running according to specifications.

Maybe we should change the specs but it is what it is, and the infractions are minor and recorded with reassuring due diligence.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:53 PM

40. Due diligence!?

Damn, I think I just pissed myself laughing.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:56 PM

44. I laughed myself when I saw the report.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:51 PM

38. Yeah, funny that, eh?

It's not transparent if it requires whistleblowers and well, it clearly does, ergo, not transparent. But I'm speaking to the choir here. Sheesh.

On the plus side, so many of our fellow DUers are getting so flexible with all of these pretzel stances they've been practicing. Yoga masters they are. Illogical, but bendy.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:53 PM

41. The only fix is to stop.

 

There are no terrorists, just a list of burned cia assets. You know, the same crew that flooded this country with crack, opium, heroin, weed and hash during the Soviet-Afgani war so they could buy weapons to fight the soviets.

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Response to nebenaube (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:58 PM

46. I don't have a problem with that.

JFK said as much in 1963 and no one has said it better. Nevertheless, the prospect of dismantling the US security apparatus is challenging, to say the least.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:34 PM

56. Holy crap!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:59 AM

67. FUCK FACTS!!

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:29 PM

8. Or he could fix it.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:54 PM

62. OR he could turn it into a campaign issue in the midterm....

 

The Libertarian wing of their party isn't as strong as the Right to Privacy wing of ours.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:29 PM

9. I think that's why we're seeing the President doing stupid things and losing his famous cool

Like trying to bully/beg Putin for Snowden or these ridiculous defenses of the NSA.

I really don't get why he thought his legacy/image was more important than doing the work we elected him to do- the dismantling of Bushco. The fact that he was even thinking about it should have been a warning sign.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:34 PM

13. I could not agree more with you.

On all points. Excellent post.

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Response to Hydra (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:53 PM

23. Instead of focussing on catching Snowden he'd better start controlling this damn NSA.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:31 PM

11. Agree 100%

 

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:36 PM

14. This place has almost lost its collective mind.

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:42 PM

17. If you don't think these ongoing stories are hurting Obama, you're not seeing things clearly. n/t

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:43 PM

18. It's funny because Obamacare was going to be his legacy before this, and

that was supposed to be a bad thing.



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Response to ProSense (Reply #18)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:43 PM

59. LOL

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 09:46 PM

20. Nope, sorry

The White House has. I have no idea why they thought following the policies of the worst President ever(unelected, too) would lead to this President having a legacy of...a new Lincoln?

Why are they even talking with a straight face about the Legacy of someone who hadn't even gotten into office yet? We had a HUGE mess after Bushco, and his biggest fear is not that he can't get it all done...he's worried about his 3 lines in the history books?

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:54 PM

43. The best thing about this place is we never had a collective or hive mind

It's damn messy that way but much better than lockstep.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:18 PM

24. You wish. Poor little things.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:26 PM

27. Oh bullshit.

God, I am so sick of the pantry-wringing pearl-clutching whiners.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:31 PM

32. Thanks for putting THAT picture in my head!



Damn right though.

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Response to Zoeisright (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:52 PM

39. I do not wring my pantry. All the cans would fall on the floor.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #39)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:39 AM

85. LOL nt

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:27 PM

28. His legacy...

 

Will be insurance mandates and corporatist corruption, and the largest and most terrifying expansion of post-constitutional power in American history.

Remember, this is not only the President who has claimed the right and power to spy on Americans...

He has also claimed the power to KILL them.

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Response to Demo_Chris (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:10 PM

50. The Founders did NOT contemplate a president maintaining a "kill list" in absence of declared war!

The history of war powers is complex and fraught with differing interpretations from the beginning. Still, it is difficult to picture any of the Founders contemplating a president who would maintain a “kill list” in the absence of a declared war. This is part of what John Marshall, later to become chief justice, said in support of ratifying the Constitution: “Shall it be a maxim that a man shall be deprived of his life without the benefit of law? Shall such a deprivation of life be justified by answering that a man’s life was not taken secundem artem, because he was a bad man?”


"The next presidential election is crucial because the next president will determine the kind of Supreme Court we have. Candidates who are on record as supporting the Patriot Act, the prison at Guantanamo Bay and the National Security Agency’s warrantless surveillance of domestic electronic communications should be summarily dismissed from consideration. Unfortunately, the only likely candidate who has stepped forward so far and supported the common-sense constitutional view of these things is Rand Paul. Paul is a Libertarian, and that is a dangerous form of political lunacy. Paul’s view of the matter does, though, serve to illustrate a very important point: if ever there was a nonpartisan, purely American issue on which left and right could agree, this is surely it."

http://www.clydefitchreport.com/2013/08/need-a-constitution-were-not-using-this-one/

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Response to Divernan (Reply #50)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:30 PM

55. I don't think ANYONE has contemplated an American President...

 

Maintaining a secret "Kill List" of other Americans.

Americans he has decided must be killed without legal process. It is unprecedented so far as I know.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:27 PM

29. Nonsense. Nixon made his own problems, Obama inherited a disaster.

Obama needs to fix these problems. Richard Blumenthal and Pat Leahy have offered the first part.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:53 PM

42. He needs to fix it, yes. That's the solution. I hope he does.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #29)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 10:57 PM

45. And at this point in time he is embracing it.

 

I would vote to impeach a republican for this. He has to power to fix this. But he trembles.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #29)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 11:49 AM

77. The clock is ticking.

 

We're pushing 6 years in.

Obama signed an extension of the patriot act in 2011.

A few years ago, it should have become apparent to even casual observers that he's delivering what he wants to deliver.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:00 PM

47. Oh please. If the RW could impeach with this, it'd be done before you could say

Snowden.

Only in this bubble of group-reinforced doom over the ever-overreaching "surveillance state" is this a looming disaster for the President.

In the real world, people are trying to get/hold onto healthcare to save theirs or their loved ones' lives.

People are trying to afford college.

Others are trying not to be profiled by "stop and frisk" or by this REAL totalitarian overreach of having to be fingerprinted to live in a housing complex.

Freaking out that the government COULD/MAYBE/MIGHT have the potential to read your e-mails (without actual proof that they're DOING it)? Maybe not the biggest worry for a lot of people.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:05 PM

48. welcome to iggy land.

 

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Response to nebenaube (Reply #48)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 04:33 AM

71. Another one, eh?

Translation: Your disagreement freaks me out so much, I can't bear to see your screen handle anymore!

What was that someone said above about this place losing its collective mind? Little by little each day!

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Response to nebenaube (Reply #48)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:35 AM

73. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I join you

on this one.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:07 PM

49. His Legacy?

 

Cripes, it was damaged goods before this shit hit the fan.

Chained CPI
Too big to prosecute
Crackdown on marijuana in otherwise state legal dispensaries
Corporate Cabinet
TPP behind everyone's back with corporations writing the law.


Too late to "save" his legacy. It is shot all to hell. A footnote in history. A James Buchanon. A Millard Fillmore.



Possibly a Richard Nixon.



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Response to mick063 (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:40 PM

57. ...

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:13 PM

51. It ain't over by a long-shot.

 

- Hang onto you hat.

K&R

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:15 PM

52. It's just starting, but he better get a grip on this fast. One way or another.

 

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:17 PM

53. I know it's hard to tell if you're a regular here,

But most Americans aren't all that concerned about this and will forget it quickly because it doesn't involve sex.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #53)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:02 AM

63. Just wait until someone's sexy emails are released.

It's just a matter of time.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #53)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:53 AM

95. Exactly, the most I've see anybody talk about/ obsess about it is here on du.

Even the republican Obama haters where I work have never ever talked about it. They talk about Obama care plenty.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:18 PM

54. A president can have a legacy with multiple aspects.

FDR had the new deal.

He also had the Japanese American Internment camps.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #54)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:40 PM

58. Uh, Obama is no FDR. He has quite a small group of items as legacy choices.

 

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #58)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:04 AM

70. Obama is better, Obama never had a 83% dem congress at any time like FDR...

...but of course fudr, winger and hand ringers could care less

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #70)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:45 AM

87. What's a fudr?

 

I keep seeing you use this, and I have no idea what it means.

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Response to Safetykitten (Reply #58)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:54 AM

88. Truth told

No human is a clone of another. till we get cloning up and running, anyway. But even then, environment will mean that each of us is still individual. So of course Obama is not FDR.

And my point remains. A presidents legacy can have multiple aspects. Assuming our country survives, I believe his basic inaction in slowing the war/spying machine will be remembered as shameful. Assuming that the ACA law survives the next presidency, and the one after that, and is eventually upgraded and problems start to be resolved, that may well become a much larger story.

But the future is the future. Maybe his legacy, the things we tell our kids about won't be even in the ballpark of these things. Or maybe history will pass him by as a foot note. I kind of suspect that will be the legacy of Clinton or the first Bush.. in a few decades, I suspect either one will barely rate a mention in the history books. And I dont see Obama Policy as diverging much from either of theirs.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #54)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:01 AM

69. Too true. LBJ had The Great Society.

 

He also lied us into the Vietnam War with The Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

He even joked about it years later, saying the Navy was shooting at whales for all he knew.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:49 PM

60. Actually, Nixon wanted to be remembered for battling cancer.

 

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:02 AM

64. Obama must be aware

of what the NSA issue has done to his popularity and will likely do to his legacy. He must truly believe in the program to spend this much capital defending it. He knows more about it than you.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 12:36 AM

65. FDR

Was his legacy Japanese-American internment camps, or the New Deal?

The former has been recognized as a mistake by almost everyone, but no question, he is remembered most for Social Security.



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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 04:39 AM

72. The only reason he is remembered at all is because Obama brought him up in so many speeches

about how he wanted to do big things such as infrastructure like FDR did. Do you think most of our kids know who FDR is? Most adults can only sputter out one or two facts about the man.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #72)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 11:27 AM

74. I'd wager most adults

know more about Social Security and FDR than will ever know what NSA stands for.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #74)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:09 PM

80. The NSA hopes that you are right. And I'll bet that if you asked high school seniors ...


Which President signed the Social Security Act?

a) Abraham Lincoln
b) George Washington
c) Woodrow Wilson
d) Franklin D. Roosevelt
e) John F. Kennedy


only 20% would pick the right answer.

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Response to ThoughtCriminal (Reply #65)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 11:46 AM

75. If Truman had expanded, rationalized and defended the internment camps...

 

... then it would have been a lasting legacy. In fact, it would have been a lasting *democratic* legacy.

FDR signed the internment order on Feb 19, 1942. On January 2nd 1945 he rescinded it.

The PATRIOT act was adopted in 2001 with a sunset provision. 10 years later, Obama signed an extension of that law.

It is his legacy, and he should own it. It pisses me off that because of him, Democrats own it.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:12 PM

81. He has rolled back NSA since Bush. Bush was engaging in warrantless wiretapping

and ignoring FISA courts entirely.

So why didn't you give Bush that honor?

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sat Aug 17, 2013, 01:39 PM

82. Some people are fuck sticks

 

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:14 AM

89. This tread needs more...

 

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:32 AM

90. I think Obama will go down in history as a

Great president period.

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Response to Kablooie (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:37 AM

92. The "Right" is hard at work trying to entrap Obama on this issue. Snowden is their main operative

 

on that front, working directly for Rand Paul.

Unless, of course, politics isn't what it has always been, and the R's will claim Bush's crimes as their own.

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