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Sun Aug 11, 2013, 12:49 PM

 

WTF is wrong with this country?

In the USA:
Two-Year-Old Taken from Parents Because They Smoked Pot is Murdered in Foster Care
It is time for Child Protective Services to recognize that foster care is potentially more damaging to a child than a parent's marijuana use.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/taken-pot-smoking-parents-2-year-old-murdered-foster-care

Meanwhile, in Switzerland:
In Switzerland, Marijuana Use Helps Keep Prisons Calm and Safe
The Swiss prison guards agree that marijuana use among inmates is a good thing.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/switzerland-marijuana-use-helps-keep-prisons-calm-and-safe

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with us? This is so fucking nuts. We should just give all this
land back to the Native Americans and concede that we have totally botched our chance at ever
becoming any kind of "City on a Hill" that the world would want to emulate because we are so
cool, so democratic, so humane, so compassionate, so just.

107 replies, 13419 views

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Arrow 107 replies Author Time Post
Reply WTF is wrong with this country? (Original post)
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 OP
OneGrassRoot Aug 2013 #1
Blue Owl Aug 2013 #2
kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #69
demwing Aug 2013 #98
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #3
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #7
juajen Aug 2013 #49
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #50
Downwinder Aug 2013 #54
greiner3 Aug 2013 #59
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #42
the_sly_pig Aug 2013 #55
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #78
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #56
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #79
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #70
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #77
LineLineLineLineReply ?
timweidman Aug 2013 #90
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #94
timweidman Aug 2013 #103
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #104
timweidman Aug 2013 #105
HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #106
timweidman Aug 2013 #107
AlbertCat Aug 2013 #97
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #99
Auntie Bush Aug 2013 #4
aristocles Aug 2013 #5
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #28
aristocles Aug 2013 #64
AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #68
aristocles Aug 2013 #73
MADem Aug 2013 #6
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #11
MADem Aug 2013 #16
LuvNewcastle Aug 2013 #8
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #9
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #12
gtar100 Aug 2013 #24
AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #46
Half-Century Man Aug 2013 #80
RKP5637 Aug 2013 #82
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #10
KittyWampus Aug 2013 #20
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #26
Nevernose Aug 2013 #36
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #41
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #62
Life Long Dem Aug 2013 #63
bluedeathray Aug 2013 #13
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #14
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #18
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #21
bravenak Aug 2013 #32
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #72
bravenak Aug 2013 #75
tomg Aug 2013 #57
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #74
Half-Century Man Aug 2013 #81
hatrack Aug 2013 #95
indepat Aug 2013 #15
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #33
Igel Aug 2013 #17
cali Aug 2013 #22
Utopian Leftist Aug 2013 #71
SomethingFishy Aug 2013 #76
KittyWampus Aug 2013 #19
cali Aug 2013 #23
nessa Aug 2013 #37
Comrade Grumpy Aug 2013 #60
millennialmax Aug 2013 #25
cantbeserious Aug 2013 #27
SamKnause Aug 2013 #29
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #30
bravenak Aug 2013 #31
L0oniX Aug 2013 #40
bravenak Aug 2013 #44
L0oniX Aug 2013 #48
bravenak Aug 2013 #51
eridani Aug 2013 #66
Doctor_J Aug 2013 #100
Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #34
zeemike Aug 2013 #35
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #45
L0oniX Aug 2013 #38
scorpiogirl Aug 2013 #39
Initech Aug 2013 #43
PD Turk Aug 2013 #47
liberal_at_heart Aug 2013 #65
HockeyMom Aug 2013 #52
Enthusiast Aug 2013 #53
another_liberal Aug 2013 #58
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #61
another_liberal Aug 2013 #67
azureblue Aug 2013 #83
99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #86
Phlem Aug 2013 #84
broadcaster75201 Aug 2013 #85
Scootaloo Aug 2013 #87
TeamPooka Aug 2013 #88
dothemath Aug 2013 #89
TBF Aug 2013 #91
Doctor_J Aug 2013 #92
CrispyQ Aug 2013 #93
Zorra Aug 2013 #96
SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #101
PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #102

Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 12:50 PM

1. A lot. n/t

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 12:52 PM

2. WTF indeed



It's like it's set up to thwart sanity.

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Response to Blue Owl (Reply #2)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:17 PM

69. Well, if you can take away the meth factories maybe we would be more sane. Pot is not

 

the problem that meth and heroin are but no one wants to talk about it because too many "rural" folks are involved.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #69)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:57 AM

98. Why even consider Pot a problem at all?

 

I's not a lesser problem, it's a fabricated "problem"

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:07 PM

3. I understand the frustration and angst. There was a time when the rest of the world looked

 

to us as establishing a new means for man to govern himself, through representative democracy without hereditary monarchies and aristocracies. That time seems to have passed and I date its formal passing to January, 1981 (when Reagan was inaugurated) with further obsequies along the way (12/12/2000, 3/20/2003).

Giving the land back to the Native Americans is not practical. Seizing the wealth of the top 1% and re-distributing it to the less-fortunate, OTOH, might offer us a path to redemption. I'm not holding my breath, mind you.

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:11 PM

7. I like how you think

 

Seizing & redistributing all that 1%er-wealth should be such a no-brainer.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:59 PM

49. Silly! Civil war all over again.

Perhaps we should not allow any men to rule this country. Thought of that one? After all, they are making piss-poor decisions, and have been for eons. Give it up to the women, and ya'll stay home and watch football and drink beer.

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Response to juajen (Reply #49)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:03 PM

50. Sure

 

if we can't give the land back to the Native Americans, then women would
make the obvious second choice. maybe only women should be the only
people allowed to vote too, just to make sure the men don't fuck up the
elections too badly with their dich-headed ways.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #50)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:30 PM

54. I'd go for an all female ticket.

I stand with Wendy.

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Response to juajen (Reply #49)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:53 PM

59. I am NOT using women compared to monkeys;

 

But a society run by mostly females would/might mirror the Bonobo Great Ape;

"The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes. Bonobos are perceived to be matriarchal and a male's rank in the social hierarchy is often determined by his mother's rank."

The entire passage should be in bold but my point is emphasized by what I have put in bold print as this is my reason for responding to juajen's post.

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #3)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:40 PM

42. Seizing the wealth, eh?

 

And then what?

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:34 PM

55. Our very own Bastille Day....

Thats what.

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Response to the_sly_pig (Reply #55)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:59 PM

78. ...

 

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:40 PM

56. Fund Social Security & Single Payer Health Care For All

 

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)

rebuild all the crumbling bridges, repairing all the damage done by the bogus
"sequestration" bullshit, make good on all the pensions that have been stolen
by Wall St. & it's ilk, ... the list goes on ... to include such things as decent
salaries for min. wage workers, providing REAL relief for under-water home
owners, etc.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #56)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:09 PM

79. That's quite a list. GDP is "only" 16 trillion

 

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #42)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:17 PM

70. I'm a Democratic Socialist and I think you can extrapolate from that

 

as to the 'then what' that stems from an expropriation of excessive wealth from the 1%. I bet you didn't know that if the national income of the U.S. were divided up evenly between its citizens and residents, each family of 4 would receive $200,000/year. That's a statistic you'll never see in the mainstream corporate-whore media.

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #70)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:58 PM

77. That's refreshingly direct of you

 

The 200K per year, how many years?

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #70)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 06:54 AM

90. ?

So let me see if I understand you. You want to take all the money from 1% ers anf redistribute it to every other person in the country? Is that right?

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Response to timweidman (Reply #90)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 09:49 AM

94. Not "all the money". Most of the wealth (meaning equity stakes in the productive

 

means of the country).

FWIW, if the annual national income of the U.S. were divided equally among its citizens and residents, each family of four would receive an annual income of approximately $200,000.

How is that any less 'moral' than a society where 10% of the population controls some 80% of its wealth?

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #94)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 01:04 PM

103. so the family of 4

That doesnt feel like working gets the same pay as the family that gets up ay 4am and works a 13hr day? That seems fair to you?

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Response to timweidman (Reply #103)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:54 PM

104. If we're going to talk about 'fair,' we have to discuss the FACT that the principal

 

source of wealth in this country is not 'hard work' but actually 'inheritance.' This in a country supposedly founded as a radical departure from the idea of hereditary aristocracies. Another FACT: the 6 heirs to the WalMart family fortune control as much wealth between them as the bottom 30 MILLION AMERICANS combined!!!

Are we still talking about 'fair'? I sense the presence of a 1%er or one of the 1%'s lackies or lickspittles.

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #104)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 07:08 PM

105. first thing is you didnt answer the question

second thing - someone did work hard for that walmart money to begin with. it sounds like you would want something in place to stop that person from willing his hard worked for nest egg to whomever he pleases. joseph stalin might of been able to help you there. as for the bottom 30 million i beleive i am right in the middle of them. i guess that leaves me out of the 1%. if you want to know my politics then i am not left or right. i have been a union member for around 12 yrs but like most of america i beleive i am in the center. i look at both sides and think most of liberals and conservatives lie thru thier teeth. that takes care of the lacky thing. the lickspittle thing i had to look up. i do my own thinking as far as that goes. thanks for the response. tim

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Response to timweidman (Reply #105)

Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:12 PM

106. Your question was worded in such an absurd, right-wing, frame that I did not feel it merited an

 

answer, as families of four typically do not work 13-hour days, unless they are violating child-labor laws (a favorite of your garden-variety right-winger).

Since you introduced the question of 'fairness,' I thought it only 'fair' to mention that most wealth in this country exists because of inheritance and not because of hard work. That's a fact and only right-wingers take issue with facts.

Your red-baiting (reference to "Joseph Stalin" is yet another give-away to who you really are, your claims to union membership notwithstanding.

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Response to HardTimes99 (Reply #106)

Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:01 PM

107. my question could have been worded better. sorry i am not the scholar you seem to be.

i wonder why you decided to comment on the "fair" part. it was part of the "absurd,right wing frame" so why comment on that? because it gave you an avenue to attack me. to prove that all i have to do is look at 'That's a fact and only right-wingers take issue with facts." as a matter of "fact" i had assumed your facts were correct and didn't take issue with them yet you read into it that i did. you are obviously educated and i assume you knew what i was trying to say but i suspect that no matter how it was worded you were not going to answer. by your response you seem way too far right to have a rational discussion anyhow. no wonder nothing in this country gets done. as far as "red baiting" you might want to spit it out. it will hurt your throat

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #42)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:24 AM

97. Seizing the wealth, eh?

 

I don't want our government "seizing" people's money.

I do think those who have mucho bucks should pay their fair share of taxes.... and not be able to overly influence elections or government.

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Response to AlbertCat (Reply #97)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:25 AM

99. only a income cap can really achieve the spirit of post 3

 

and i'm not sure we signed up for that in this country

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:08 PM

4. Too many conservatives and 1-5%ers...including talk radio and Koch brothers and their ilk.

Get rid of them and we could have a pretty good country.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:08 PM

5. Some things, but nothing that can't be fixed.

 

Where would you rather live?

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Response to aristocles (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:57 PM

28. Iceland, where they actually arrest banksters.

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:00 PM

64. You would be very lonely in iceland.

 

Unless you're very blond, and have surname ending in -son.

Iceland is one of the least diverse countries on the plant, apart from Japan.

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Response to aristocles (Reply #64)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:13 PM

68. A person has to be very blond? I wonder if anyone told that to Eric the Red?

 

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Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #68)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:16 PM

73. Today's Iceland, not 1,000 years ago nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:10 PM

6. The "Swiss pot" story is spun, misrepresented bullshit.

Pot is NOT legal.

It is NOT authorized in the prisons.

They drug test inmates, but they don't do anything if they find out they've smoked weed.

These shitty, poorly sourced articles--and there are many of them--misrepresent the Swiss perspective AND the perspective of the guards.

The study was done in one prison, it consisted of interviews of about 27 guards and thirty prisoners at a SINGLE prison facility. It is anecdotal, at best. For all we know, the guards are selling weed to the prisoners.

So retract the "humane Swiss" argument. The conclusion of the study was that they need to find another way to keep the prisoners calm, other than cannabis or medication. Maybe they'll paint the walls a calming shade, or play Debussy? Who knows.

I went looking for the abstract, because the news reports seemed excessively glib, and posted it here on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3443936

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:24 PM

11. Huh? This is from the International Journal of Drug Policy

 

I never claimed it was anything more than an anecdotal study of one prison; but it's still a far cry from how pot is viewed and responded to in this country, imho.

Cannabis use in a Swiss male prison: Qualitative study exploring detainees’ and staffs’ perspectives
Abstract
Background
Several studies suggest a high prevalence of cannabis use before and during imprisonment, but subjective perspectives of detainees and staff towards its use in prison are lacking. This issue was explored in the framework of an observational study addressing tobacco use in three Swiss prisons in 2009 and 2010 that involved multiple strands (quantitative and qualitative components). This article presents qualitative data on cannabis use collected in one of the settings.

Methods
We used in-depth semi-structured interviews with both detainees and staff to explore their attitudes towards cannabis in one post-trial male Swiss prison. We performed specific coding and thematic analysis for cannabis with the support of ATLAS.ti, compared detainees’ and staff's opinions, and considered the results with regard to drug policy in prison in general.

Results
58 participants (31 male offenders, mean age 35 years, and 27 prison staff, mean age 46 years, 33% female) were interviewed.

Detainees estimated the current use of cannabis use to be as high as 80%, and staff 50%. Participants showed similar opinions on effects of cannabis use that were described both at individual and institutional levels: analgesic, calming, self-help to go through the prison experience, relieve stress, facilitate sleep, prevent violence, and social pacifier. They also mentioned negative consequences of cannabis use (sleepiness, decreased perception of danger and social isolation), and dissatisfaction regarding the ongoing ambiguous situation where cannabis is forbidden but detection in the urine was not sanctioned. However, the introduction of a more restrictive regulation induced fear of violence, increased trafficking and a shift to other drug use.

Conclusion
Although illegal, cannabis use is clearly involved in daily life in prison. A clearer and comprehensive policy addressing cannabis is needed, including appropriate measures tailored to individual users. To sustain a calm and safe environment in prison, means other than substance or medication use are required.
http://www.ijdp.org/article/S0955-3959(13)00075-3/abstract

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #11)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:44 PM

16. Yes, if you followed the link, that is what I posted.

As I said, it's NOT legal to use in the prison. They don't hand it out with the pudding:

They also mentioned negative consequences of cannabis use (sleepiness, decreased perception of danger and social isolation), and dissatisfaction regarding the ongoing ambiguous situation where cannabis is forbidden but detection in the urine was not sanctioned.


Although illegal, cannabis use is clearly involved in daily life in prison.


And their big finish is thus:

To sustain a calm and safe environment in prison, means other than substance or medication use are required.



Your post suggests that the USA is bad because one local child protective agency fucked up and took a kid away from their parents (when many, many others don't do that kind of thing), and Switzerland (which is right wing and racist these days) is the land of the free and home of the weed, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Here, check out this article about marijuana, kids, and the "draconian USA:"

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/medical-marijuana-kids-some-praise-results-while-others-worry-about-6C10506407

The American landscape is shifting:



The bottom line, though, is illegal use in a Swiss prison setting is not comparable to legal or illegal (depending upon the state) use in USA. They're apples and oranges--the only link is the pot.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:14 PM

8. It's amazing what propaganda will get people to accept.

This country has been propagandized about the evils of marijuana for decades. Enforcement of our draconian drug laws has finally become intolerable and people are seeing the horrible results of the decades-long drug war.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:17 PM

9. The US has become a portrait of a country going under because of stupidity as

in "Idiocracy." Logic and rationale thought have fled the US. And as another poster pointed out, the US population is fed a constant stream of BS by RW sources. And this is combined with misinformation, disinformation, lies and distortions.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:25 PM

12. I loved that movie, Idiocracy. nt

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #12)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:51 PM

24. I had thought it was satirical, though. Not a docudrama.

Republicans apparently took it as something to aspire to.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:52 PM

46. +1

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #9)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 08:16 PM

80. I have always suspected that there was a finite number...

..of IQ points available to the world, and with the rising population their are fewer available to the individuals born next.

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #80)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 08:43 PM

82. That, is a very prolific statement and with far more meaning than initially might meet the

eye, a simple metric that sums it up quite well! ... when one takes into account all of the deprivation resulting from overpopulation in an unsustainable model.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:17 PM

10. Marijuana is still illegal

 

The case workers would lose their jobs if they turned their backs on pot smoking. I can't blame them. I blame the law.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:48 PM

20. We can also blame the parents IF their pot-smoking leads to neglect or child endangerment.

 

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #20)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:54 PM

26. No one knew there was going to be a murder

 

Sad, and I don't blame the parents for that.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:28 PM

36. No they wouldn't

And in many American jurisdictions those parents would get a slap on the wrist and maybe parenting classes. If they were growing or dealing, it might be different, but many places have reformed the heavy-handed approach towards child welfare. Maybe "are reforming" is better phraseology.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #36)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:38 PM

41. Yeah, I don't understand why welfare workers do the things they do sometimes.

 

Obviously this wasn't in the best interest of the child.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:55 PM

62. There are lots of countries that never enforce that law.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #62)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:00 PM

63. Thanks

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:30 PM

13. It's all about $$. nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:38 PM

14. Don't you know, America's the greatest fucking country in the world! FUCK YEAH!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:45 PM

18. Wow, thanks! ... that was downright inspirational .. fuck yeah!

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:49 PM

21. I just found this particular video mashup for America! Fuck Yeah!

Most demented one yet! I had to share.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:06 PM

32. Never seen it before.

 

That was simply inspiring.
My favorite part was " slavery, fugg yeah!"
It will be stuck in my head for a week now.
But at least it replaces Chuggo.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:14 PM

72. It's one of my Youtube standbys...

...that I'll throw out there when I see too much jingoistic dumbfuckery.

The song was originally from Team America: World Police, a truly epic piece of cinema!

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #72)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:22 PM

75. I have to see it now.

 

And I will. Then the song will be even funnier.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:43 PM

57. Thank you. You just provided me

with the video I will use to introduce my 1st year College Writing students to the course (the theme I was assigned is Civic Engagement).

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Response to tomg (Reply #57)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:17 PM

74. Glad to be of service! n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 08:23 PM

81. Suddenly, I want to re-enlist

But I'll get over it.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #14)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:02 AM

95. "Books!" (long silence . . .)

Fucking brilliant - I just about hurt myself laughing at this.

Thanks!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:40 PM

15. Easy. WTF is wrong with this country is a pervasive right-wing governance coupled with

a pervasive right-wing ideology that much of the populace is eaten up with.

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Response to indepat (Reply #15)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:14 PM

33. To listen to the right-wing their ideas have NEVER really been tried....

 

They now claim Dubya was just too damn Liberal.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:45 PM

17. You shouldn't let how "we" are be determined by the lowest among us for any given trait.

It's as foolish as saying the "we" are actually as good as the best among us for any given trait.


We shouldn't let anecdotes trump data. Yes, CPS services *are* potentially more dangerous than nothing. On average, though, nothing is potentially more dangerous than CPS services. (Okay, that didn't come out quite right. You know what it's supposed to mean--just put contrastive stress on "nothing".

Similarly, eating an apple is potentially more dangerous than 20 years of smoking and eating junk food daily. It's possible to choke and suffocate from an apple. Doesn't mean that's the way to bet--my way of saying, "Look at the averages and not the individual tokens."


Pot smoking is still illegal in a lot of places and one common side effect is jail time. Even where it isn't it still has the same physiological effects. Short-term memory loss and loss of will, among others. These are bad when dealing with small children. However, given the short-term memory loss and indifference it's less likely that they'd be noticed or remembered later. Our behavior can be self-correcting but we relish activities that foil feedback.


Parents said that the two-year-old child "was never sick"? Really?

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Response to Igel (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:50 PM

22. you make sense. up until the 4th paragraph.

 

having your child taken away for smoking pot is insane. and what's with the absurd "loss of will" claim?

A child died because she was removed from her home because her parents smoked pot.

Sick.

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Response to Igel (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:03 PM

71. Memory loss is a myth about marijuana....

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 06:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Marijuana does NOT cause short-term memory loss. This myth has been dispelled. The "NORML" (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) website has a section that reveals many false myths about cannabis, and they document their sources very well.

Edit: What I should have written above is that marijuana does not cause "permanent" loss in short-term memory. The myth is that marijuana kills brain cells. It doesn't. It can adversely effect short-term memory temporarily, when one is inebriated. But there is no permanent loss of short-term or long-term memory, associated with cannabis use.

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Response to Igel (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 05:38 PM

76. Before you discuss "short term memory loss and loss of will"

You should read up on Marijuana, the different strains, and how each strain affects different people. Your generalizations show an ignorance of the properties of Marijuana and it's uses.

I don't get why someone will read, say something political, and then go and research it to make sure they have their facts straight but when it comes to Marijuana they just take at face value the myths of "short term memory loss and loss of will". There are Indica strains that do cause loss of will, there are also strains of Sativa that will motivate the shit out of you. There are also different ways of ingesting THC. Edibles do not have the same high as smoking. Vaporizing does not have the same high as edibles.

There are no generalizations when it comes to weed, except that it's uses are endless...

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:46 PM

19. The first news story apparently involved more than just "parents smoking pot"

 

because in the thread posted the other day someone had more information which included both the sister and the grandparent caring for the children & getting involved.

That doesn't make the criminalization of pot necessary or abusive and inadequate foster care system a good thing.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:51 PM

23. links please.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:33 PM

37. Link - The idea that she was take solely due to pot is the father's story...

There appears to be more to the story. The TDFPS is probably limited in what they can say due to HIPAA

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/two-year-old-dies-in-foster-care

Alexandria was taken from her Williamson County home and placed into Small's foster home in January; according to the Texas Department of Family and Protective Service (TDFPS), Small was a licensed foster parent through Texas Mentor.

"She was placed into foster care for neglectful supervision because her mother and I smoked pot at the time," explained Hill.

According to court records, Alexandria's mother had a medical condition that does not allow for the child to be left alone with her. The TDFPS also received allegations that Hill used marijuana on a regular basis and on one occasion Hill almost dropped Alexandria while going down the stairs of the home as he was trying to hand the child to his sister.

During the month of November, Alexandria was being cared for by her paternal grandmother before the State intervened on Nov. 26.

The TDFPS concluded that "Through the assessment of the Department and family members of the parents, it appears the parents have limited parenting skills and need to develop their understanding of being protective of their child. Until these services are offered, the Department does not feel either parent can be the sole caregiver for the child."

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Response to nessa (Reply #37)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:55 PM

60. "The parents...need to develop their understanding of being protective of the child," says TDFPS.

 

"Or we'll take your kid and get her murdered for you."

I've had dealings with Texas child protective services in the past. Some of the smarmiest, most self-righteous, lamebrain assholes I've ever met. Sure they're doing God's work.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:53 PM

25. If there's not more to this story, it's seriously fucking enraging. eom

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:55 PM

27. Good Question

eom

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:57 PM

29. U.S.

What the fuck is right in this country ?

Our government is corrupt.
Global corporations pull all the strings attached to our corrupt politicians.
Our justice system is so far out of kilter it is useless.
The military brass have the politicians by the short hairs.
The war profiteers are global leeches.
Wall Street has zero regulation.
Separation of church and state is non existent.
The war on cannabis has always been an outright fraud.
Free Trade deals benefit corporations not the populace.

Going back decades the majority of our politicians should be imprisoned for treason against this country and its people.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:57 PM

30. Religion.

 

At least in regard to the topic you pointed out. Of course the same answer applies to the same question regarding many other areas of deficiency in our country.

Religion is the root of evil.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:00 PM

31. We have a lot of child killers.

 

We don't value human life, or any life really. Unless its a dog. We love dogs and cats. We want to starve children, call the mothers sluts and crackheads, and send the fathers to prison. Welcome to America! Here's your bible and your gun. You're on your own.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #31)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:38 PM

40. Most of those with a bible never read it ...especially the books about the life and work of Jesus.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:48 PM

44. I think they have read it.

 

It's super violent.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #44)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:56 PM

48. Yeah the part about Jesus getting killed was super violent, cruel and unjust...

 

just like the US government does.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #48)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:05 PM

51. Our country was built on genocide, violence, enslavement and greed.

 

When your foundation is rotten, your house is going to fall apart.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
This did not apply to men who weren't white. Or women. Or children. Or non landowners. Or most people really.
Our founders were racist, selfish, men. Our current government is made up of the same kind of people.
Except Obama. I love Obama.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #40)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:04 PM

66. There are actually fundamentalists who refuse to believe that the Beatitudes are in the Gospels

They believe in it--they just refuse to read it.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #31)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 11:35 AM

100. we also love fetuses and guns

 

working people and poor people - not so much

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:25 PM

34. It's all about trying to define getting high with being immoral....

 

And it's about making what is considered to be immoral illegal.

They used to consider "mixed marriages" to be immoral. Hell, some would define "mixed" as Baptist and Methodist.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:27 PM

35. America has a complex.

Well actually several of them....Military industrial, Law enforcement industrial, Prison industrial....and once they get big and powerful and making a lot of money they cannot be stopped.

Stop the war on drugs and billions would be saved by us taxpayers but lost by the 1%....who by the way have no fear of them or their kids being caught up in it....prison like taxes is for the little people.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #35)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:50 PM

45. "prison like taxes is for the little people" <-- true dat.

 

I thought that gem of a phrase was worthy of it's own post.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:35 PM

38. "WTF is wrong with this country?" ...way too much to list here. n/t

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:37 PM

39. I've got a whole fucking list right now

I'm so over it. All of it.

The promise of America is a joke at this point.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:41 PM

43. Reagan and his uncontrollable lust for the almighty dollar happened, that's what.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:55 PM

47. Greed nt

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Response to PD Turk (Reply #47)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:01 PM

65. you got it.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:16 PM

52. Reading about all these kids getting killed

or killing other kids with their "responsible gun owner" parent's' guns, letting them see their Mom or Dad smoking weed is way down the the list. Of course, pot smoking is not a God given right like owning a gun is.

Sick, sick, sick.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:28 PM

53. WTF is right! It's on every issue.

Those that represent us have fallen far short of even adequate in their duties. Hell, they have failed us, utterly.

And they are not done fucking up. Two things that work really well, the USPS and social security are right in their crosshairs. They cannot wait to destroy these remaining and well functioning parts of American life.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:43 PM

58. You forgot, ". . . and so powerful."

 

Our unmatched economic and military power, coupled with our sense of entitlement when it comes to using that power, is what makes us the World's master.

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #58)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:55 PM

61. Well, right now, the world's "master" is a laughing stock, or worse.

 

I hear we're not too popular in Yeman these days, for example.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3445306

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #61)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 04:07 PM

67. Good point.

 

Making people fear you doesn't necessarily make them respect you as well.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 10:48 PM

83. 0ver 35 years

of GOP rule, that's what. Except for the times when we had a Democratic President, this country suffered, and got poorer and dumber. Money is spent on bigger war toys, and money is taken away from Family Services. The Booze and paper industry, bribe officials to make pot illegal. People are made stupid so they will buy the anti pot propaganda, and Family Services' standards drop, so they let people like these killers become foster parents. It all boils down to money, how much, who has it, who will benefit from it, and where it is spent.

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Response to azureblue (Reply #83)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:57 AM

86. Yes. Thank you. Very nice summary of the train wreck that is "USA Fuck Yeah!" ~nt~

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2013, 11:19 PM

84. I'd say education.

We celebrate ignorance here and it shows.



-p

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:41 AM

85. One thing and one thing only. Religion.

We have permitted religion to heavily influence our society. That does not happen in Switzerland and most of Europe. Religious influence is the death-knell to any Society. History is loaded with Societies that die because of Religion. If we ever want to be civilized, we need to abandon mythology as a governing paradigm.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:36 AM

87. The belief that you can build a castle from bullshit, if only you pile enough of it

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:15 AM

88. Prohibition is a failed public policy...everywhere. nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 04:39 AM

89. war

 

.... and we positively and absolutely do not make war on other people because they have something we want. Can you spell O I L?

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 07:15 AM

91. How much time do you have?

European land grab by freaks (I can say that - one of my own ancestors was a puritan who came over early 1600s). Honestly, it's a mess.

Tons of problems from the get go - stealing land from indigenous folks, setting up a capitalist system in which mainly rich white men retain most power/control (black men count as a portion of a person - women not at all etc). And it has only gone downhill since then.

I would say our most pressing point now, aside from the religious zealots who have persisted, is the income inequality. All of the crazy stories are really a by-product of living in a country where there is a class of the super wealthy who own everything and then the rest fighting over the remaining crumbs. Charts here re income inequality in this country: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 08:34 AM

92. America is now the absolute worst of the developed countries to live in

 

Thanks to Ronald Reagan and hate radio, we are about on par with Soviet Russia. Civil war or two-state solution are the only conceivable ways out.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 09:43 AM

93. Our culture is a cesspool.

It's to be expected when the only value anything has is it's profit potential. It makes me seethe to hear fundies claim that America lost it's way when the feminists, minorities & gays started demanding equality, when really, it's because Mammon is our God. Of course, the likes of Sarah Palin will never admit that, even as she spends $150k on clothes & accessories. I don't care what she spends on her clothes, but don't tell me my feminist values are the reason the country is in the shitter.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 10:06 AM

96. Reagan and conservatives slipped deadly poison into the national consciousness during the 80's. nt

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:38 PM

101. Lots, including the 'bootstraps' mentality, those who promoted it and those who buy into it.

Sick, sick, sick!

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)

Mon Aug 12, 2013, 12:51 PM

102. wtf is wrong with this country?

 

Here are a few other things.







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