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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"[Sen. Wyden] on Edward Snowden, how the NSA misled Congress, and reining in the massive collection"
Sen. Ron Wyden on Edward Snowden, how the NSA misled Congress, and reining in the massive collection of Americans' data.
A little more than two months ago, former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden revealed that the American government is collecting vast amounts of data on millions of citizens. Many were shocked by the leak, but Sen. Ron Wyden was among those who wasn't surprised by what Snowden had disclosed.
From his seat on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the senior Democratic senator from Oregon has had an insideyet classifiedview of what America's intelligence agencies are up to. He's been pushing them for increased transparency, particularly on what information they are and aren't collecting on law-abiding American citizens. During the debate over reauthorizing the Patriot Act in 2011, he warned, "When the American people find out how government has secretly interpreted the Patriot Act, they are going to be stunned and they are going to be angry." (Wyden voted for the Patriot Act in 2001, but voted against its reauthorization in 2006.)
<...>
MJ: What is the Obama administration saying to you about your pushback on the NSA's programs, if anything, behind closed doors?
RW: I think there's been dramatic, dramatic progress made in the last eight weeks. If you had asked me eight weeks ago, "Would you have 26 United States senatorsa quarter of the Senateweighing in on these key issues with respect to civil liberties and to privacy? Would you have had the vote in the House, let alone gotten more than 200 votes?", I would have said no way. And it's my own kind of gut feeling nowand I've talked to the president about these issues several times over the last few months and I'm not basing this on any conversation with the president, I don't get into what the president says to mebut I have have this gut feeling that the administration is beginning to rethink, particularly this program that I consider so, so violative of the privacy rights in particular, the bulk phone records collection. I believe they're beginning to rethink this.
<...>
MJ: You've said there are essentially two versions of the Patriot Act: The one the public can read and the way it's interpreted behind closed doors. You've said this means the government can access a lot more than just phone call and email metadata. What do you mean?
RW: The government's collection authority, under the Patriot Act, is basically limitless. They can get the medical records and financial records, gun purchase records. And it also becomes part of another important issue that relates to the FISA court and the rest of the debate. It almost becomes a secret law, like there are two Patriot Acts. The one you read on the laptop essentially leads you to believe that there's some connection to terror and you read that and then you scratch your head and say, "How did they take that authority that's described and use it to conjure up a legal rationale for collecting millions and millions of phone records on law-abiding people?"
<...>
MJ: Then he had to basically admit that he was not telling the truth.
RW: After the hearing, one of my staff went to a secure room and said that this was inaccurate and needed to be corrected. Gen. Clapper's people said they knew it was inaccurate and they still wouldn't correct it. At that point it never, or at least for quite some time, would never have been known. Then there were the (Snowden leaks) and Gen. Clapper started offering one answer after another with respect to why he did it.
The president said that to make all this work, you need to do vigorous oversight. In order to do vigorous oversight, the leadership of the intelligence community has got to be straight with the American people and straight with the Congress. For there to be vigorous oversight, the intelligence community's got to be straight with the American people and the Congress and that has not been the case.
MJ: How do you think what Edward Snowden did has played into all of this, and what do you think of what he did?
RW: It's been a long-standing position for me that when there is a criminal chargeand here you're talking about espionageI don't get into making comments. What I will tell you is that I feel very strongly, very strongly, that this debate should have begun long, long ago by government officials, by members of Congress and the White House rather than by a contractor.
- more -
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/senator-ron-wyden-nsa-surveillance-interview
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Watch this....
Response to Logical (Reply #3)
DevonRex This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)is a big no no.
Not professional either.
Logical
(22,457 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)Thanks.
Logical
(22,457 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"No one else does it but you. No need for a discussion.
...your obsession (http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023368645#post5) getting the best of you?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022414191#post10
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022870590#post8
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)You just collected two months worth of my posts to prove what? That I average 3 posts a day on the topic?
I post a lot more threads than that each day. Still, you collected two months of my posts on a topic, which means an extensive search.
Yikes!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Do you know how to do advanced searches on DU? Copy the results, paste into Excel to preserve table setup, done.
I'm still wondering why it took almost three weeks for you to start posting Anti-Snowden threads and then you're all over him like stink on doodoo.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)"I'm still wondering why it took almost three weeks for you to start posting Anti-Snowden threads and then you're all over him like stink on doodoo."
Sound like you're describing your own obsession with me. I mean, Snowden is in the news, the leak, the NSA, his flight from the country, his attempt to get asylum are all being discussed.
If you can't see why anyone would focus on him, that's your problem.
If you can't see the creepiness in focusing on me and collecting two months of my posts, that's also your problem.
I'm not a topic here anymore than you are. Making me a topic is weird and obsessive.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Creepy.
MADem
(135,425 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)You're making DU suck over something really stupid. Stop.
Logical
(22,457 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)More like triangles. WTF? Android keyboards sometimes baffle me.
Logical
(22,457 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)it has nothing to do with your exaggerated claims about "Snowden posts"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022592785#post6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022807040#post8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022831006#post57
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)MJ uses Snowden to grab attention but Wyden doesn't talk about him since espionage is involved. Or the charge of...
ProSense
(116,464 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)That was the most positive article you've posted that mentions ES, yet you might as well have called for his beheading in the public square or something. Jurors: I am NOT calling for that and neither is ProSense.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Cha
(297,154 posts)before people have a chance to see it. If you didn't think enough of it for people to read..why post it at all?
And, that it irritates some so much, who have no interest at all in your thread but, only come on to act like playground bullies. It's a badge of honor when considering the source.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)so if you have a problem with this board take it up with Skinner.
randome
(34,845 posts)It is, however, dismaying to see the level of vitriol applied to fellow DUers.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]
Andy823
(11,495 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)I'll start a thread asking why my thread is being ignored. Is that a "big no no"?
What's next on the outrageometer?
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)
Perhaps the folks in The Lounge would like to discuss the etiquette of kicking one's own thread.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)And who appointed you the Keeper Of The DU Rules That No-One Else Knows Exists?
Here's an idea. Next time you decide to appear and focus on the DUer rather than the OP they posted, step back, take a deep breath, and mentally aim a few at yrself.
Cha
(297,154 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Cha
(297,154 posts)ordinary.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I never liked Vanilla ice cream very much, either.
I would rather have some chocolate or rocky road.
Or the kind with little green pieces of mint chopped up in it.
UMMMMM.
But, Vanilla, not so much.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Tell me.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)the OP at all. It is truly, truly bizarre. I wish I knew how to screen cap.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)RL
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)You okay?
Get your talking points yet?
RL
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Never can be too careful.
RetroLounge
(37,250 posts)RL
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)[URL=http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
MADem
(135,425 posts)and thinks everything over that way is just fine and not in need of any oversight or changes!
It's hilarious how the "Snowden/Victim" team is automatically making the assumption that anything Pro Sense posts is "anti-Snowden," so much so that they get personal with her, insult her, circle the wagons and play the beat down game...when, if they bothered to read the article she has offered to us (from that RIGHTWING RAG MOTHER JONES, Gol-Darn-it!!!1!!! ), they would probably--like most of us do--find much to agree with in the Senator's words.
And it's not like she didn't provide excerpts so they could get the flavor of the piece, either.
All I can say is the Pro Sense bashing on this thread says a LOT about the people doing the bashing. Their purpose is not to champion greater transparency in government, it's beating up on a DUer.
Not very nice atall....I hope the admins notice.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)It's just unbelievable the knee jerk reactions ProSense gets, but this was the funniest ever. At first I thought everyone in the thread had decided Snowden was a traitor just to be contrary. Then it was obvious they hadn't even bothered to check the source of the article, much less read any of it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's hilarious, even though it's a bit embarrassing for the knee jerkers.
I think if they come to understand their error, they will start deleting their snark. That screen capture might come in handy!
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)I tried to deliver the wake up call, the warning about the Patriot Act the last time it was reauthorized. Recently, I've offered up another warning: This is a unique time in our constitutional history. If we don't use this special historical period to reform American surveillance laws and practices, I believe our generation is going to live to regret it. A surveillance state that is taking away liberties and freedoms that the Founding Fathers established and doing it all without actually making anybody safer.[/div]
Without Snowden, and Manning, none of these issues would be discussed. It took someone to expose the secrets so the Conversation could be started. As I pointed out on another thread. If we had sat here and discussed it hypothetically, we would have been dismissed if we had theorized about keystroke, or Prism, or any of the data gathering programs. We would have been shut down for putting forth Conspiracy Theory nonsense. When this first broke, we were all compared unfavorably to Alex Jones more than once. We would post the latest information on the NSA. The inevitable come back was that we should stop listening to Alex Jones. Having never heard him, I would post the link and it would still be dismissed.
But now, now people believe these programs exist, and now, finally after a decade of crap, we're getting to put some pressure on Washington and get people behind the principle. It has taken years, but finally the dirty secrets are seeing the light of day. Senator Wyden is a good and principled man IMO. However, he can't very well discuss the programs if he's prohibited from discussing them. We can't know what he's talking about, and we can't be informed about what our Government is doing if all the dirty doings are wrapped in secrecy.
In two months, we've gone from Alex Jones lunatics to just short of a plurality. Soon, we who think Civil Rights is the one thing we must focus on the most, will be the majority.
All this because one guy stole some slides and a handful of documents from work. In a century, Snowden with all his flaws, and his pole dancing girlfriend (Not sure what is bad about that but what do I know) will be heralded along some of the greats. Because Snowden set in motion the changes that are yet to happen for us. When Congress has to face facts that Civil Rights really do matter to the people.
Write him off as a criminal if you want. But soon the Government is going to be reformed, and if history is any indicator, they'll go kicking and screaming and grabbing everything they can to slow it down.
questionseverything
(9,651 posts),,,
Zorra
(27,670 posts)The intelligence community is never going to be straight with us. Somebody is going to have to figure out an extremely effective, independent way to monitor them.
For all we know, they may be working for the Carlyle Group, contrary to the public interest.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . . the first published report on Snowden occurred on June 5th.
And that's not "a little over 2 months ago".
20 May Edward Snowden, an employee of defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton at the National Security Agency, arrives in Hong Kong from Hawaii. He carries four laptop computers that enable him to gain access to some of the US government's most highly-classified secrets.
1 June Guardian journalists Glenn Greenwald and Ewen MacAskill and documentary maker Laura Poitras fly from New York to Hong Kong. They meet Snowden in a Kowloon hotel after he identifies himself with a Rubik's cube and begin a week of interviews with their source.
5 June The Guardian publishes its first exclusive based on Snowden's leak, revealing a secret court order showing that the US government had forced the telecoms giant Verizon to hand over the phone records of millions of Americans.
6 June A second story reveals the existence of the previously undisclosed programme Prism, which internal NSA documents claim gives the agency "direct access" to data held by Google, Facebook, Apple and other US internet giants. The tech companies deny that they have set up "back door access" to their systems for the US government.
This, according to the 'official" timeline provided by the Guardian itself --
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-nsa-files-timeline
I wonder why Wyden is grandstanding now, since he was on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and knew this was all going on to begin with.
MADem
(135,425 posts)how they feel about Snowden.