I've Noticed This Twice Today So Far... C'Mon MSNBC...

[WillyT]

Both Reverend Al and Chris Matthews could not come to terms with using the term TRANS-VAGINAL ULTRASOUND... They kept calling it Ultra-Sound Laws...

Maybe they think they are being polite. or maybe they think the phrase/image is too graphic... so I post it again!



Deal with it Men, Democrats, MSNBC...

[spanone]

1. i noticed that too. an ultrasound sounds somewhat benign.

i agree completely. this needs to be called what it is.

[Enrique]

2. why "trans"?

I'm not seeing "trans" in that picture.

[TalkingDog]

3. Trans: Beyond. Vaginal: the Vagina.

What is beyond the Vagina?: The Uterus.

[jeff47]

5. No, in this case "trans" means "through"

Meaning the ultrasound waves pass through the wall of the vagina in order to image the uterus.

If it was the "beyond" definition, all fetal ultrasounds would be transvaginal.

[TalkingDog]

21. I agree. Through is the better choice

trans-
?
1.
a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin ( transcend; transfix ); on this model, used with the meanings “across,” “beyond,” “through,” “changing thoroughly,” “transverse,” in combination with elements of any origin: transisthmian; trans-Siberian; transempirical; transvalue.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trans-

[BumRushDaShow]

4. Having had one of these

which in turn helped to diagnose a cyst on one of my ovaries, I will say to take note that it's only recently where words such as "penis" or "vagina" have ever even been permitted to be uttered on the air, let alone during certain times of the day, and let alone by men.

I know we on DU go hog wild with the language but I think there is generally some prudence happening on these networks given the subject matter and terminology.

And it IS an ultrasound (uses soundwaves)... And because there is that tiny gap between the cervix at the top of the vaginal canal before you reach the opening of the uterus, you get the "trans" part (="across", where it looks across the gap). From what I could tell from my imagery session, it seemed easier for the tech to actually "look around" the outside of the uterus vs whatever little detail was visible inside. I expect that the "jelly on the belly" one would probably be better (looking from above or below) to see anything actually in the uterus. Plus I don't know if those other states are specifying trans-vaginal vs the other...

[jeff47]

6. The benefit of the transvaginal ultrasound is the probe is much, much closer

to what it's looking at. Which means much smaller things are visible. The "belly" ultrasound can't see fine enough detail to see a fetus this young.

[BumRushDaShow]

7. ???

Men... love 'em to death... but...

What if the zygote is at the top of the uterus? You can often get better detail from above as there may be all sorts of endometrial material that the waves can't penetrate or clarify. And this procedure doesn't really penetrate in the manner that you think.

What I think you are talking about is a hysterosonogram, which can actually resolve what is inside the uterus.

I eventually had a CT scan (with dye) to really resolve what was going on around and in the uterus... Still have the hi-res scans on a CD.

[jeff47]

9. It's about proximity and also what the waves pass through.

Most of the time, the trans-vaginal is closer.

But there also isn't a wide variety of tissue with differing density between the vagina and the uterus. There is between the "belly" and the uterus...which is one of the reasons pre-natal "belly" ultrasounds are usually done with a full bladder.

What I'm saying is the 'belly' ultrasounds would produce an indistinct smudge at that gestation. While transvaginal lets you actually see the fetus.

And yes, I'm male. Doesn't mean I'm clueless. Aside from what people learn in biology if they pay attention, my wife had to have a transvaginal ultrasound early in her pregnancy when they couldn't resolve the fetus through her belly. The smudge on the screen that may-or-may-not be a baby on the 'belly' ultrasound became quite distinct transvaginally.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. What if the uterus is full of fibroids?

What if you have endometriosis all over the entire area inside and out like I did (including on the bowels)? What kind of resolution can you get out of that if any at all (which is why the next step like CT)?

Why are men continuing to argue about a woman's vagina and uterus?

I remember I loved the move "Rabbit Test" with Billy Crystal. It's like that all over again.

[jeff47]

13. So...you're going to argue that because rare conditions exist

we have to act as if all women have rare conditions?

One of our cable channels is advertising an exploitative show where they discuss a woman born without a vagina. Since she exists, transvaginal ultrasounds are clearly impossible.

Why are men continuing to argue about a woman's vagina and uterus?

Because two X chromosomes don't automatically make you an expert. Any more than mere possession of a Y chromosome makes me an expert on prostates.

[BumRushDaShow]

16. What I'm describing isn't rare

Having fibroids and/or endometriosis isn't rare.

And this beauty, is breathtaking:

Because two X chromosomes don't automatically make you an expert.

I don't see many women delving into the intricacies of the prostrate - I certainly wouldn't. And although this doesn't mean the subject can never come up, I think that it is a bit presumptuous to argue about my innards. If you don't have a uterus or vagina or cervix, then you really can't "feel" what it is like.

Of course at this point, I have none of these anymore. It's all gone - uterus, cervix, ovaries. Just like my mother - except SHE had to get permission from a MAN (her husband) to get her hysterectomy 40 some years ago.

So I can't have one of these procedures anymore either because the probe would hit the sewn-up top of my vaginal canal. Lovely eh?

[jeff47]

32. Endometriosis: 5-10% of women.

Severe enough cases to interfere with ultrasounds are rarer. Fibroids is trickier to get a good rate on, because there's lots of rare conditions that could lead to that and I'm sure I don't know them all. But the total isn't going to be a majority of the population.

If you don't have a uterus or vagina or cervix, then you really can't "feel" what it is like.

This is physics, not feelings.

I don't see many women delving into the intricacies of the prostrate - I certainly wouldn't.

Let's say your husband just went through a bunch of medical procedures involving his prostate. Don't you think you'd end up knowing a lot more about the prostate than some random woman? Don't you think you'd know more about it than some guy who hasn't had prostate issues despite owing one?

About a year ago, my wife had a transvaginal ultrasound, because it was the only way to image the fetus that became our daughter (needed to rule out some complications I'm not going to get into). Before the ultrasound, she was told it would be very likely that she would need a transvaginal ultrasound, because the "jelly on the belly" style wouldn't be able to see something that small. In fact, the tech pointed out the splotch on the external ultrasound that was probably our daughter. The subsequent transvaginal ultrasound revealed her clearly.

Now, most people would come out of such a situation actually remembering what happened. And since we were imaging a two-month-old fetus, I might have an idea of how imaging a two-month-old fetus works. Even if I happen to be male. Or are you assuming I was home on the couch drinking beer and watching the game while this was going on?

[WillyT]

10. Question: Were You Forced To Have This Procedure ??? - Was Your Doctor Forced To Perform It ???

Because THAT'S what this law says.

[BumRushDaShow]

12. Oh I'm in agreement with you

and am not arguing the fact that the "state" wants to force what we call a "dildo-cam" up the vagina.

My note here was to offer some first hand (like many women) of having something not organic, shoved up there as a medical procedure and yes, I think it should be called rape if it is done without consent.

[WillyT]

14. Thank You For That !!!

[BumRushDaShow]

19. No problem!

I think this is a disgrace. And as I said, I can't see where you can really resolve much with this procedure anyway. It's more a power play of submission.

[me b zola]

15. Why does a woman is seeking an abortion required to have something crammed up inside of her

to see something close up that she is about to abort?

[jeff47]

31. Well if you're an anti-abortion nut, it's because that's the only way to see it

Many anti-abortion people operate under the delusion that if women really knew they were aborting a baby, they wouldn't abort. So they've come up with the brilliant idea of ultrasound requirements in the hope that they can shame some women into carrying the baby to term.

What they didn't do is bother asking any doctors about how the ultrasound would work. Which is why they are now surprised that it's a transvaginal ultrasound instead of "jelly on the belly" used in later pregnancy.

[handmade34]

8. call it "state sanctioned rape"

as well as a trans-vaginal ultrasound... I have had 5 children and never had one (nor any other kind of ultrasound)...

this proposed law is merely a way to punish women for having sex and enjoying it...

[WillyT]

18. Yep... That's What EVERYBODY Should Be Calling It...

[Major Nikon]

28. I call it state sponsored terrorism

My definition of terrorism is someone using violence or the threat of violence against civilians to achieve a political goal.

Since the banana Republicans have no hope of passing a Constitutional amendment banning abortion, they are using violence (specifically rape by instrumentation) or the threat of said violence to achieve what they can't possibly win politically.

[amb123]

29. STATE RAPE - ANY law that restricts or denies a woman's right to ALL reproductive health services

(Abortion, contraception, cancer screenings, ultrasounds, etc.). Let us spread this term like wildfire all across the USA.

[spanone]

17. ed shultz called it trans-vaginal

[dmr]

20. It's prob because they're two elderly gentlemen who can't

bring themselves to say anything 'vagina'.

Reminds me of Archie Bunker when he'd tell Gloria, Mike & Edith not to use the word 'pregnant' and other assorted words.

Going all the way back to the 60s, we had an old aunt in the family, who you couldn't say the word 'woman' because it meant something sexual to her. You could say 'girl' or 'lady', but not 'woman'! She was born in 1875 and was an old maid - though my dad said she was considered 'wild' during Prohibition (whatever 'wild' meant'). I was just a young girl, but I thought she was hoot - as old as she was, she'd defy my mom & feed me candy & chocolates & buy me toys & clothes. Just don't say woman.


Sorry, didn't mean to yammer on about old relatives - though I sure wish I could chat with that old gal now that I'm one myself!

Edit:
I just want to say that I had one of these performed a couple months ago. My oncologist ordered it. Lucky for me I had a woman perform it, she understood how I felt & was kind. Even though it was medically necessary, I hated having it done. To do this test for no valid reason is criminally wrong in my book. To rob a woman - hell - to rob anyone of their dignity just because you think you can, is evil and sick.

[BumRushDaShow]

22. You got it.

It was considered "unlady-like" to even utter these things aloud and none of this was ever said in "polite company", etc. My Mom is 82 and we have been discussing this latest idiocy and she even mentioned that it was only in the past couple decades when doctors would even say "vagina" or similar to women during an exam.

And it's funny but I have been watching Boardwalk Empire and they were showing some pretty wild ladies (the show takes place in the early 20s.) LOL

[WillyT]

23. On The Contrary... These Are The Most Valuable Stories Of All...

I probably should have been the baby of the family.

My mom has told me that she had three miscarriages before I was born, and was called a "Habitual Aborter" by her MALE Doctor, and told by him that she would never be able to have children.

Well... I'm the first/oldest and the only boy, and I have three wonderful younger sisters.

My mom has never forgotten/forgiven the "Habitual Aborter" label, and has kicked ass feministically... ever since.



These are the stories that REALLY MATTER.

[baldguy]

24. Men of a certain age....

[kestrel91316]

25. Buncha prudes. They think "vagina" is profane.

[DirkGently]

26. If you want to discuss Republican social policy, you have to talk about body parts.

That's all that interests them. They lie awake at night, wondering what other people are doing with *their* parts, and figuring out new ways to control it. Pee in this. Don't vaccinate that. X-ray these Pat those down. Remove that prosthetic. Don't put this one with that one. No, not from that direction. And now, "Shove this in there until you agree with us."

[Skittles]

27. K&R

[Mira]

30. It is hard for me to peruse this visual because

it is so fucking rude to contemplate. HOW DARE THEY?

[just1voice]

33. MSNBC is worthlessly corrupted propaganda, a disgrace to all humanity

They exist to sell drugs, fast food, rigged elections and anything else someone will pay them to lie about.