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Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:18 AM

As a white guy, I'm perfectly fine with the fact I can't say N______. Even if black people can.

I'm perfectly fine that there's no White Entertainment Television. I'm perfectly fine that there's no White History Month. I'm perfectly fine that colleges don't have White Student Organizations and that there's no National Association for the Advancement of White People.

All this ridiculous whining and consternation from some white people that they don't "get" the same cultural markers as black people or they don't get to say certain terms about African Americans even though blacks use that same term. It's ridiculous. It's insane. You're forcing the issue and you ought to give up, because you look like fools.

Let me tell you something. If for the first century of this country's history white people were considered property and not full human beings, and for the second century of this country's history white people were subjected to institutionalized segregation laws, and for the third century white people had to deal with the lingering after-effects of the first and second centuries, then all of those things would be perfectly okay for white people.

Most African Americans in this country have had a shared cultural experience, one marked with both great trauma and overcoming such trauma, that allows them to identify with each other as a race.

White people in this country have never had that. Not as a race. Many of us have a cultural identity with the country in which your family has its origins (Italian, Irish, Polish, etc.) and that's terrific. Because when the Italians and Irish and Polish crossed the ocean to this country, they too had a shared cultural experience in that aspect, and that's something you can pass on to future generations.

But there is no White American culture to speak of in this country. It's a myth. And that's perfectly fine with me.

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Reply As a white guy, I'm perfectly fine with the fact I can't say N______. Even if black people can. (Original post)
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 OP
Scuba Jul 2013 #1
JustAnotherGen Jul 2013 #2
rrneck Jul 2013 #3
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #4
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #6
cbdo2007 Jul 2013 #28
ieoeja Jul 2013 #75
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #91
1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #102
cbdo2007 Jul 2013 #135
tavalon Jul 2013 #116
tavalon Jul 2013 #115
AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #5
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #7
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #11
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #18
tavalon Jul 2013 #118
snooper2 Jul 2013 #81
tavalon Jul 2013 #120
tavalon Jul 2013 #117
Plucketeer Jul 2013 #66
markiv Jul 2013 #8
noamnety Jul 2013 #16
markiv Jul 2013 #21
noamnety Jul 2013 #50
markiv Jul 2013 #53
noamnety Jul 2013 #59
markiv Jul 2013 #62
noamnety Jul 2013 #64
tavalon Jul 2013 #123
tavalon Jul 2013 #121
LanternWaste Jul 2013 #38
markiv Jul 2013 #41
Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #82
tavalon Jul 2013 #124
Half-Century Man Jul 2013 #129
tavalon Jul 2013 #134
deafskeptic Jul 2013 #100
whopis01 Jul 2013 #94
Chemisse Jul 2013 #97
tavalon Jul 2013 #125
Squinch Jul 2013 #103
alsame Jul 2013 #9
Neoma Jul 2013 #10
Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #12
Neoma Jul 2013 #58
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #15
Neoma Jul 2013 #19
azureblue Jul 2013 #25
pipi_k Jul 2013 #13
TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #51
femmocrat Jul 2013 #14
tarheelsunc Jul 2013 #17
skeewee08 Jul 2013 #20
matt819 Jul 2013 #22
alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #23
TNNurse Jul 2013 #30
eissa Jul 2013 #56
moose65 Jul 2013 #69
Mariana Jul 2013 #78
Behind the Aegis Jul 2013 #110
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #122
RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #24
tavalon Jul 2013 #126
RevStPatrick Jul 2013 #26
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #33
TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #44
dkf Jul 2013 #46
caseymoz Jul 2013 #27
anomiep Jul 2013 #37
AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #39
ismnotwasm Jul 2013 #29
TNNurse Jul 2013 #31
EC Jul 2013 #32
AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #34
trusty elf Jul 2013 #35
heaven05 Jul 2013 #55
AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #36
davidthegnome Jul 2013 #40
TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #47
tavalon Jul 2013 #127
coldmountain Jul 2013 #42
backscatter712 Jul 2013 #43
nenagh Jul 2013 #61
Historic NY Jul 2013 #45
heaven05 Jul 2013 #48
tosh Jul 2013 #49
KamaAina Jul 2013 #52
loyalsister Jul 2013 #54
Myrina Jul 2013 #60
loyalsister Jul 2013 #84
TreasonousBastard Jul 2013 #57
dkf Jul 2013 #63
AndyA Jul 2013 #65
AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #67
Blue Owl Jul 2013 #74
AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #76
HipChick Jul 2013 #68
totodeinhere Jul 2013 #73
HipChick Jul 2013 #83
Warpy Jul 2013 #70
forestpath Jul 2013 #71
LittleBlue Jul 2013 #72
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #77
carolinayellowdog Jul 2013 #79
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #80
nomorenomore08 Jul 2013 #85
JoeyT Jul 2013 #86
BrainMann1 Jul 2013 #87
Kelselsius Jul 2013 #88
valerief Jul 2013 #89
ReRe Jul 2013 #90
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #132
ReRe Jul 2013 #133
cliffordu Jul 2013 #92
Wolf Frankula Jul 2013 #93
treestar Jul 2013 #95
99Forever Jul 2013 #96
Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #98
BlueJazz Jul 2013 #99
MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #101
Old and In the Way Jul 2013 #104
Bertha Venation Jul 2013 #105
Redford Jul 2013 #106
Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #107
BobTheSubgenius Jul 2013 #108
Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #131
BobTheSubgenius Jul 2013 #109
blackspade Jul 2013 #111
Zoeisright Jul 2013 #112
roody Jul 2013 #113
tavalon Jul 2013 #114
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #119
Scootaloo Jul 2013 #128
lynne Jul 2013 #130

Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:23 AM

1. This old white guy agrees. Great post Tommy, thanks.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:25 AM

2. Beautiful Post Tommy!

:rec:

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:26 AM

3. Hey, there's a large and vibrant White American culture in this country!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:26 AM

4. Also, I am not offended by the words "cracker" and "cracka" (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:31 AM

6. No black guy ever shouted "cracker" while whipping a white guy.

That's the thing. There's no context to cracker/cracka, or even honkie, other than that they could be considered a derogatory term. Whereas there's quite a context when it comes to n___.

Plus "cracker" as in Florida's Cracker culture is actually pretty cool and not at all considered derogatory. (Florida's crackers were rural cattlemen who got their name when they cracked their whip while herding cattle. There's cracker architecture and cracker cuisine. Marjorie Kinnan Rawling's novels concern cracker culture.)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:04 PM

28. I've had my ass kicked by black guys calling me a cracker

a few times. I never understood the term and don't find it racially offensive, but they were certainly using it as a derogatory term toward me.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:12 PM

75. Cracker: (n) one who cracks a whip.

 

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #75)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 07:48 PM

91. Actually the word is very old, derives from Craic (pronounced crack) which is a word

 

for lively and perhaps overblown conversation. Craic is still a word in use, the Florida crackers were not named after whips but for their bravado and the general sense in the old world that the descriptions of heat, bugs and size of territory coming from the settlers seemed overstated. The word 'cracker' is used in Shakespeare to describe rubes, rustics, blathering pastoral people and that use predates the colonies and the slave trade.
A cracker is a rube, a blow hard, a country bumpkin spinning yarns and telling fish stories. At the very least, that is the older, more established use of the word. Sure, people think other things, but they don't have any back up for that.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:59 PM

102. Was that ass kicking ...

 

done in the 21 century?

I ask because I spend a considerable amount of time with Black folks ... and have not heard that term (that I can recall) used by a Black person since 1982.

I have, however, heard it fom white folks claiming that Black folks have used it.

Just saying ...

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #102)

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 09:41 AM

135. Early 90's. I was one of about 10 white kids in an all black school....

and probably heard the term daily.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:52 AM

116. I grew up in Central Florida

At that time, it was considered equivalent to calling someone white trash.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:50 AM

115. I'm glad your not, but it is a racial slur, actually

And not much milder than the slur being discussed. Anyone, black, white or green, who dared to throw that at me would get my middle finger in return. It's a word that should be relegated to the slur dumpster.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:30 AM

5. The word "Nigga" is not the same

 

as the word "Nigger". Different usage, different meaning.

Republicans racism makes them unable to comprehend this.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:33 AM

7. Even so, I still don't like using that term myself.

I'm 100% okay with black people using it, but I don't think it's my word to use.

It's the one word in the English dictionary I will not use, ever. In any variation.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:39 AM

11. I hope that you would also never use c--n, c--t, or f-g (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:49 AM

18. No, I don't use those words either.

Derrogatory names towards ones race, ethnicity, sex or orientation are off limits for me.

I don't even like "Pollock" and cringe whenever anyone makes a "joke" based on them, even though I'm half Polish.

However, I'll fuck and shit and ass along with the best of 'em.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:56 AM

118. Interesting side story

A number of years ago, I got called on the table by my boyfriend for telling a dumb blonde joke. I didn't recognize it for what it was until it was pointed out to me. I don't do dumb blonde jokes anymore.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:13 PM

81. clit?

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #81)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:58 AM

120. No, the clit is a good thing

The word being not discussed is a derogatory term for another nice piece of anatomy.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:54 AM

117. Wow, that was almost like a game

Like a DU version of hangman. It took me a few seconds to get each one.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:24 PM

66. I don't use that N-thing in any fashion

 

anymore anyway. I used to. I was raised in a culture (white) that had no inhibitions using that racial/ethnic slur as well as others. Working in a hands-on technical environment, no one ever gave a raised eyebrow to the term N*****-Rigged when we encountered something that been done in half-ass fashion. Nor did I ever stop to think of the implications when I talked about trying to "Jew" someone down while angling for a deal. These things were just phrases that everyone used. No one had to school me as to when they might be appropriate or what they inferred. They were simply part of the lexicon. I will say - it took concious effort to intercept myself when I saw these things coming across my vocal chords. But I DID change my ways.

I WILL say - I think blacks are doing themselves a disservice by perpetuating the terms. They want "equal" - they should act it. Bill Cosby has it right the way I see it. You can go out and break dance during a performance of Swan Lake - just don't look for them to write you in as a permanent feature.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:36 AM

8. 'I can use this word, but you cant' does not advance relations

 

yes, it is a basic rule that a member of a group has more lattitude than others in use of some words

but when that rule is played to the fullest extent, then it's choosing a chip on the shoulder over true harmony

and people have a right to notice that choice

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Response to markiv (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:46 AM

16. That's pretty silly, imo.

 

"Yeah, we held you as slaves, officially had the government label you as subhuman, refused to allow you any basic civil rights for generations, and had to be court ordered to allow you to drink from the same water as us. And we continue to systemically discriminate against you. But now I feel you are oppressing us and getting in the way of race relations by not graciously accepting our continued use of derogatory names for you."

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Response to noamnety (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:56 AM

21. who's 'we'?

 

my ancestors never lived a day of their lives in a slave state, but did live in a state where countless people went far away to fight and die to END all that

i think there comes a time to choose whether one wants reconcilliation, or to hate someone because of what someone with the same skin color did to their ancestors

that point was the greatness of Mandella

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Response to markiv (Reply #21)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:37 PM

50. It's a fallacy to believe discrimination ended with slavery.

 

And it's a fallacy to believe that white people calling black people the N word contributes to ending discrimination.

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Response to noamnety (Reply #50)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:41 PM

53. talk about missing the point

 

i have NEVER said that white people should 'be able to use that word', most white's i know dont aspire to vulgarity anyway

i'm suggesting that african americans consider NOT excercising their 'right' to use it, if harmony is higher priority than resentment

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Response to markiv (Reply #53)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:58 PM

59. Perhaps I'm being polite in assuming that's not your point.

 

"I think black people are in part to blame for white people being bigots, because they talk in a way that offends me as a white person. They should stop being so resentful of their past and current discrimination. It would make me feel more benevolent toward them."

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Response to noamnety (Reply #59)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:02 PM

62. unreasonable interpretation/twisting

 

and i'm not going to dignify your responses further

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Response to markiv (Reply #62)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:09 PM

64. It's really not twisting anything. If you're an outsider to an oppressed group, you don't get a say.

 

I don't personally use derogatory words to refer to women, and I am one. I'm not interested in reclaiming gender hate speech.

But fuck any man who tries to explain to me how I'm contributing to his oppression of women if I chose to jokingly say to my sister "hey, bitch, I'm not eating any more of your raw vegan food!" He's an adult. I'm not accountable for his bigotry.

(if my sister's reading this, so sorry, I love your food, really!)

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Response to noamnety (Reply #64)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:06 AM

123. That's a good comparison

There are certain words I would never use within my "oppressed" group but some that I would. And bitch is a fine example of it.

I swear like a sailor, always have, but there are just certain words that are not okay.

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Response to markiv (Reply #21)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:03 AM

121. So, did Nelson Mandela have a specific position on that word's usage?

I ask because there are few people in this world I respect more than him and so his thoughts on this subject would hold a lot of sway with me.

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Response to markiv (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:23 PM

38. They jokingly referred to each other as 'jarheads.'

In 1987 when my brother graduated marine boot-camp, he and some fellow marines came over to my apartment to celebrate and drink beer. They jokingly referred to each other as 'jarheads.' When I used the same term, they quickly let me know that as I didn't undergo the same rites of camaraderie and go through the same struggles they did, it would be better if I refrained from using the term as such. An obvious point I'd never considered. Not a chip on anyone's shoulder... simply an earned use of nomenclature. Regardless...

"'I can use this word, but you cant..."
You may use any word you desire; no one is preventing you from that except yourself.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:28 PM

41. but even in your example, it's a choice of separation vs inclusion

 

they were letting you know, in no uncertain terms, that you were not the same as them

again, the question is 'which do you want?' separation, or inclusion?

you cant have it both ways, and i think some people dont get that

if i'm seeking acceptance in any new group, but abruptly correct someone with a 'dont get familiar with me' the first chance i get, you think that's the start of a new lasting friendship? Or do you think they're bristling and thinking 'wow, watch your step around THAT guy!'. You dont get a second chance to make a first impression, and i would have just blown it

i'm not trying to sell anyone on anything, i'm just describing what i believe happens, it's a principal that has nothing to do with 'racism' per se

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Response to markiv (Reply #41)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:20 PM

82. It isn't black or white, the relationship is a grey one.

And yes the Irony Fairy kicked me in the ass for using that phrase in this situation. The choice of separation or inclusion isn't an either-or situation. People share commonalities. A group of 10 friends might share 30 commonalities together, 4 of those 10 might share an additional 61 commonalities, other fractions might share X moments between them. And yet the group remains intact.
I am a veteran, a factory rat, I have a college degree, a first responder, a guy who once screamed "go ahead shoot me" at a policeman (my apologies to the Vallejo Police dept), a journeyman electrician (UAW), bilingual, the proud holder of a library card, an outaku, got punched once, so hard I could have looked straight down and seen the top of my own butt, co-authored a book, a father, a grandfather, have x-ray proof of broken bones I can't explain, a cancer survivor, have saved or helped save lives, and watched people die. The, fairly average, me belongs to a lot of subgroups of humanity. And yet all these fall under the general heading of "American".

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #82)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:10 AM

124. Very interesting

And spot on. So many subgroups and yet, that bigger group is there too. I think we were probably never meant to be bigger than tribes. Many if not most of us strive to find our tribe.

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Response to tavalon (Reply #124)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 07:30 AM

129. How many dumb sentences start with, "I took a class once"?

But, I took a class once; an archeology course. And one of the salient points in the early part of the class was the Threshold of 500. That number seems to be the number of people the average human is comfortable with maintaining a face to face relationship with. Coincidentally, it is also the minimum number of persons needed for a breeding population with long term survival potential. The average number of animal, plant, or place names in a given language.
So, when people say things like "everybody says it's a good movie", what they actually mean is "the other 499 people who's faces I recognize generally agree this movie is worth the $5.00 matinee price". It is also a contributing factor in racism, if a common topic in your 500 is how weird/scary/strange/funny others are.....

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Response to Half-Century Man (Reply #129)

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 01:32 AM

134. So what I intuitively thought has actually been looked at

Totally cool. Now, I want to research this (says the mother of an autistic son who just moved to his own apartment and needs 24 hour care, uh, huh, that's gonna happen!)

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:33 PM

100. I think the blacks are reclaiming the n word in much

the same way that homosexuals reclaimed the word queer. I'm not sure that going to work given the loaded meaning of the word.

Whites who complain about about not being able to use the n word usually want to use it in a derogatory way.

As for me, I'm not saying the n word if i can help it.

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Response to markiv (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:41 PM

94. Of course that is the converse of what the OP said. n/t

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Response to markiv (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:50 PM

97. And of course it is the duty of all black people to advance relations with whites.

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Response to Chemisse (Reply #97)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:11 AM

125. Other way around actually,

though it would be nice if we would see it as a privilege instead of a duty.

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Response to markiv (Reply #8)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:04 PM

103. Lots of things don't advance relations. Like acquitting Zimmerman. Or

reinstating vote suppression tactics. People have a right to notice those choices too.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:36 AM

9. k&r! nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:36 AM

10. I don't understand what you mean by white people not having a culture.

That can be interpreted as an insult.

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Response to Neoma (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:40 AM

12. I think I get it. There is an Irish culture,

a Polish culture, and so on, but these are not skin-color dependent.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:52 PM

58. You have to be white to be considered Irish or Polish as far as I can tell.

People from Africa have just as many (or more) different types of cultures than Europeans do. But it's America that has been making unique distinctions due to the country being so young, mixed and harsh. Black people had their identities stolen from them, and so they have a better brotherhood and sisterhood going on in America than white people have. They have something to bond over. (That isn't religious.) White people still have their ancestors identities intact and their ancestors histories weren't erased (or tortured.) That's the general difference.

By all rights we all should be calling ourselves American rather than Polish, Irish, African, Chinese etc. But because our country is so young, we do not and cannot erase our ancestors past history and culture. We don't want to crush these cultures, they are part of our identities. It's part of the great diversity happening in America. But we keep pushing on that someone is really from Poland or that Chinese guy is really from China, even though they've been born and raised in America. That's the wrong thing to do. But sometimes it's a way to try and understand what is different from your own culture to theirs. But! You can tell the racism from the, "why don't you go back to Africa?" comments. Someone is always from somewhere else right? There lies the problem.

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Response to Neoma (Reply #10)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:45 AM

15. There's no shared common experience for White Americans.

Most white people in this country came from a multitude of different countries overseas, and brought with them a very wide variety of cultures based on those countries of origin.

Whereas most black people in this country are descended from slaves and many of them have families who lived through Jim Crow. As a race, and not just an ethnicity, they have a bonding experience that white people simply do not have.

There's no real white culture in this country, other than in pure jest. (I.e., "stuff white people like"

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:52 AM

19. That's like saying being heterosexual isn't a sexual origination.

Of course we have a culture. We just don't consider white to be a race. Well... We tried that and we failed over and over. Thus we really can't see ourselves as a race because the moment we do that, the racism cards come out. In that sense, not seeing ourselves as a race is both protecting ourselves from accusations and having a superiority complex at the same time.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:01 PM

25. correct

when people say "White" what do they mean? Scots Irish? Pure Irish? French, German, Slav, Greek, Italian, British, Dutch? Swedish, etc.?
There was once a time in this country when micks and spics were regraded as worst that blacks, but, over time, they were accepted as "white", while blacks are still considered by some whites as "less". In fact, world wide all cultures consider those with dark skins to be "less".


As far as using "that word". I have a question: why should I want to say it in the first place? Personally, I think saying any ethnic slur word makes a person look stupid.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:41 AM

13. As a white

female, I'm also OK with the fact that I can't/wouldn't say the "N" word

however...

It does always make me cringe even to hear black people using it. Rap songs, whatever.

Nobody should be using that word...not even blacks, and here's why...

because there are too many truly clueless and ignorant white people who think that it's "cool" to use that word even if they don't have a racist bone in their bodies.

There ARE people like that out there.

Some years ago I saw a series on TV called "Black/White" where two families agreed to switch races with some very skillful makeup.

They both looked to be upper middle class. The white people were not mean and didn't appear to be bigoted in any way. They were just extremely clueless.

The parents, anyway. For example, the man of the family, while in black makeup, was out sitting with white people in a park and, upon returning back to the house he and his family shared with the (real) black family, insisted that he did not encounter any hostility. This, of course, did not sit well with the (real) black family, who, perhaps because they are more attuned to, and aware of, undercurrents of hostility, were mildly disgusted.

The (real) white guy was just real clueless...duhhhhhhh

There were other examples, too, like when the (real) white woman used the word "bitch" to the (real) black woman under the mistaken impression that it was OK because she had heard black women do it with each other.

Again...totally clueless.

Not everything is about "racism".

Sometimes it's just about being really really stupid.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:38 PM

51. Yes! Ignorance and stupidity are the cause-- what we often call "racism"...

is simply the outside appearance of basic human dumbassery.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:42 AM

14. I grew up in a very ethnic neighborhood.

We had terms for other ethnicities that I would never use now. And if anyone outside of my heritage called me one of those slang terms, I would be offended.

So no, I would not use the N-word either, but totally comprehend how African Americans might still use it in their communities.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:49 AM

17. +1, this white guy fully agrees with you. eom

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:56 AM

20. Great post Tommy

As an African Amercian female I was raised not to use the word. I have two teenage sons and they are not allowed to use the word. I personal wish that today's youth/teens not use the word at all.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:57 AM

22. Well said (nt)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:58 AM

23. This idea that some people "can't use" these words is also silly: anyone CAN use them

 

They just have different social effects.

If my brother walks into a room and says "Hey asshole" to me, I laugh and say "What's up, dick."

If a student walks into a classroom and says "Hey asshole" to me, something else happens (actually, I'd probably also reply "What's up, dick" . The student CAN say "Hey asshole" to me. But it will have far different social consequences for the student than it would for my brother.

Same word, two different social effects. And why? Because of social bonds, history, the character of the relationship. Everyone who uses language understands this. White folks CAN use the N-word anytime they want to, but they do not get to choose out of the social consequences for their actions. They do not get to erase the social bonds, history, and character of the social relationships in which they operate, anymore than the student can just CHOOSE to be my brother.

White folks wondering why so-and-so "can" use the n-word but they "can't" would be a bit like the student complaining that my brother can call me an asshole but he cannot: if your brother can call you an asshole, why can't I? Huh? Huh? Huh? Because it doesn't work that way, and YOU KNOW IT.

Anyone who pretends not to understand why the social consequences for Jay-Z using the n word are different than the social consequences for Paula Dean using it is a liar, and probably a racist. Because it is not a difficult concept. It is the exact same dynamic as my brother, who I love, calling me an asshole as opposed to a student or a stranger doing the same.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:06 PM

30. Excellent examples

thanks

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:49 PM

56. It really is that simple, isn't it?

I don't understand why non-African-Americans get so upset that they "can't" use that word. What's the problem? Are they that desperate to use it? The first thought that came to my mind when Limpballs said it on air was, "I bet he's been DYING to say that publically for years" (cuz you know he says it privately all the time.)

As for people who whine about not being able to have "white cultural" events, that's just not true. Most areas have a Greek Food Festival, Oktoberfest, Highland Games, St. Patrick's Day events, etc. I live in an area that was historically Swedish and we used to have a SkandiFest event every year where Scandinavian culture was displayed. And there are plenty more I'm forgetting, but I'm pretty sure they all fall in the "white culture" category, even though it's not labeled as such.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:38 PM

69. Here's another example:

As a gay man, if I call one of my gay friends "queer" or "homo," it's kinda like when your brother says "Hey asshole." We know what it means, and it's not offensive in the least. But if either of those words gets spit at us by some Phelps-loving neanderthal, we know exactly what it means as well!

Most women that I know don't like to be called "chicks" or "hens" but if they say it to each other it means something totally different.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:54 PM

78. I'm glad you made the point

that people are pretending not to understand this. They understand it perfectly, and they're lying.

They're also pretending that there aren't plenty of white people who do use the n-word and other such slurs regularly. They generally do so only when they know they're among other racists, and in that environment, there's no social pressure to stop. The opposite is true, they get a positive response. The only time they get hassled about using slurs is when they slip up and say it among the "wrong" people.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:37 AM

110. In short, the linguistic term is "in-group solidarity."

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:04 AM

122. Excellent post.

You're right, it is not a difficult concept.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:59 AM

24. It speaks volumes when clowns like limpballs say...

things like 'they get to say n__, why can't I?' etc.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #24)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:17 AM

126. Limbaugh is a dumbass drug abusing pedophile

and he's disingenuous to boot.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:01 PM

26. On the one hand...

 

...I agree with you and don't use that word myself.

On the other hand, there's the Lenny Bruce school of "let's take away the power of that word."

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:10 PM

33. If black people want to take away the power of that word, they can.

And they have, to some extent.

However, it's just not my place to do it myself as a white person, knowing the context in which the word was originally uttered.

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:30 PM

44. Who is the black comic who tried that on stage and admitted it didn't work...

eventually giving it up.

The word never lost it's bite and every time he did that routine on stage some white punks in the back would be smirking.

Bruce does have a point, but reality has this bad habit of getting in the way.

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Response to RevStPatrick (Reply #26)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:31 PM

46. You haven't taken away the power if you still get mad depending on who uses it.

 

If you want it to be benign there must be accepted usage and no offense.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:02 PM

27. Don't all ethnic groups have terms


they use for each other that sound offensive if it came from someone outside the ethnic group?

Reason is, it means something different depending on context.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:23 PM

37. I don't think it's even just 'ethnic' groups

It's any group. Although any particular group may or may not have specific potentially offensive terms for people in the group, I think any group is going to have a 'people inside the group can say X, people outside, no way' effect of some sort. It's all about context.

I know that, growing up, my group of friends were kind of outcasts and people would call us 'dirtys'. We were all from pretty low income families, etc. We'd sometimes use it, too, between ourselves, but always in a context where, we're friends, everyone knows the intent. Someone outside that, using it with intent to demean, as people often did - we'd get (justifiably, imho) pissed.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:25 PM

39. 'The other' team/group/person/nation/religion/creed/etc is always easy to 'classify' and

assign a name/label/insult. In fact, it seems it takes most people a conscious effort of will to rise above such classifications. In some cases it's harmless shorthand, but more often than not, it's invective.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:06 PM

29. Great post

Made my day--thank you

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:08 PM

31. What a wonderful post

thank you for sharing your clear message. Wish I could have said it that well.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:09 PM

32. I know,

Rush acted like that's all he ever dreamed of, to be able to say it. What a dismal life he leads really if that was something to dream about.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:10 PM

34. As am I. It's one of the few words that makes me cringe. nt

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:19 PM

35. Check out these ass hats.

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Response to trusty elf (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:45 PM

55. typical

 

limbaughnistas. This country is full of them. 47% voted for romshit and anniegetyourgun. I am so proud of people not killing and destroying because of this travesty of verdict. Only hope we have with hateful fucks like those two is to marginalize and openly ostracize.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:23 PM

36. I get 12 months a year of 'white history month'.

Even when it's Black History Month, it's white history month too. I'm good. Don't need 13 months a year of it. Hardly seems practical anyway.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:28 PM

40. I really hope that some day...

We stop identifying ourselves by skin color, Nationality, gender, or sexual preference... and simply accept the fact that we are all members of the human race before we are anything else. Perhaps such an idea is simply too absurdly romantic or optimistic to ever be accomplished... but I wonder what the world would be like if we could see past our petty differences. We're all in this together...

I agree with everything you had to say, but imagine if it didn't ever occur to anyone to use such words.

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Response to davidthegnome (Reply #40)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:33 PM

47. Me too, but it may be another few thousand years of evolution before we get there...

Modern civilization is only less than five thousand years old and while we seem to have come a long way from Byzantium we are really just the same people with better toys.

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #47)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 04:20 AM

127. Wow, that's optimistic

I don't give this species 500 more years. We are dead men walking. Earth, OTOH, she has geologic time.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:28 PM

42. I officially give up my right to call anyone derogatory names based on their ethnicity

 

What's the upside of using ethnic slurs?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:29 PM

43. +1,000,000!

Another white guy speaking:

The n-bomb is possibly the ugliest word in the English language. That word has centuries of history, mostly of oppression, slavery, degradation. And that deeply affects the way people interpret that word when it's used.

Black people have reappropriated this word in the same way that Americans have reappropriated "Yankee" - made the word theirs, as a badge of pride, rather than of oppression.

But as I'm white, I can't use the word that way. That word's not mine. When a white person uses the n-bomb, the slur-connotation always gets in there, thus the word is completely inappropriate for me.

And that counts for the original n-bomb, as well as derivations that end with an "a".

Why is this hard?

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #43)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:00 PM

61. Exactly what I believe, the cringe worthy, racist term has been 'reappropriated'

and the new word has been given a new meaning , as a badge of pride rather than oppression.

And I believe Rachel said, it's a generational term and she recognizes that older generations may not easily understand.

Thank you, backscatter712

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:30 PM

45. I'm using this the next time one of my older +60 friends uses the "N" word....

Let me tell you something. If for the first century of this country's history white people were considered property and not full human beings, and for the second century of this country's history white people were subjected to institutionalized segregation laws, and for the third century white people had to deal with the lingering after-effects of the first and second centuries, then all of those things would be perfectly okay for white people.

I've tried to correct them, using cultural terms to describe their own heritage, but it just goes over their heads.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:34 PM

48. I'm

 

a mixed race amerikkkan apartheid classification system AA I guess. I consider myself human really. But that aside I have never used the nword. It is a word created from an evil hate. I tell any black person that will listen, whether there is an a at the end or er, the word should not be used to address anyone, whether you might think it's 'showing love' or not. I've been told that by younger people who constantly address each other with this word. I have asked them, how can a word, a on the end or not, that was created to demean a whole segment of the human population be used in love. They usually shrug and continue. Yeah it happened and one out that neighborhood group stopped for a while. It was created and meant to be an hateful and hurtful word. You are right though, there is only a white racial identification/group in this country with privilege and entitlement that goes with that skin color. Relating to your first paragraph, there is no need. You are correct. As a AA, I'm perfectly fine with the fact you can't say the nword also. Black people addressing each other as such calls up negativity that. to me, is deep, generational and ancient.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:36 PM

49. This middle-aged white RURAL SOUTHERN female

is in perfect agreement with you.

In fact, I am GLAD that there is a BLACK history month. I find African American history and culture fascinating and have probably invested more time immersing myself in these than in my own caucasian history. And don't even get me started on music and art.

I could go on and on!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:39 PM

52. There actually is/was a National Association for the Advancement of White People

 

led by our dear old friend David Dukkke.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:45 PM

54. When my sister was about 8 yrs. old she called a friend of my dad's a "bastard"

This was, of course, because my dad had called him that. It seems like it's a southern thing for men to call each other SOBs or maybe "sumbitches" or bastards when they are in a friendly group. But if someone outside of their group were to do it there most certainly would be consequences.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #54)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:00 PM

60. Where I grew up, "bastard" essentially means jerk or asshole.

I think I was probably a teenager when I realized that the real definition of bastard is "illegitimate child".


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Response to Myrina (Reply #60)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:04 PM

84. For some bizarre reason it is almost an affectionate term

among my dad and his construction colleagues. That one and son of a bitch pronounces "sumbitch." I think it's the closest analogy to use of the "N" word within African American circles.

In fact, I remember seeing a Seinfeld episode about it. George is dealing with a bunch of guys from TX who ae using it with each other, but when he tries it doesn't work.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 12:51 PM

57. Fine until your last sentence...

You can't avoid the European (i.e "white" culture that is underlying American culture. Sure, there are Irish, Italians, and Poles all contributing to it but it's still primarily European.

It's certainly not Asian, African, Egyptian or East Indian. Or even Native American. They appear, but for centuries they were stamped out to the extent possible. Even the Spanish and Mexican heritage of the Southwest was crushed except for tequila and taco stands. The French influence in Louisiana is acceptable only if it's not really French but touristy enough to bring in some cash. New Orleans is great for what it is but it ain't Montreal by a long shot.

The big melting pot is, in theory, great and has expanded our essentially British heritage to make us a great people, but we are still primarily a "white" culture with a common "white" language. We just haven't evolved far enough yet to accept a true multiculturalism.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:02 PM

63. Read through this thread and recognize how divisive the word is...

 

Everyone is stating their race, putting them in some group, and then speaking about other groups. The posts that talk about wishing everyone would do the same thing are the ones who include everyone.

Creating rules based on race is racial. Determining if it is okay to use the word by looking at the other person is racial.

How does all this not perpetuate racism and prejudice and most importantly "otherism".

Once race, gender, sexuality becomes the primary prism the fight is lost.

This is the opposite of judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Where are the leaders like MLK? Maybe after Obama is out of office he can step into this role.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:18 PM

65. All of the derogatory terms to describe any group of people should be unacceptable

Regardless of what it is, or who's using it. They're all a way of demeaning people, and while they may not bother some, there are those who are offended by them.

Why take the chance?

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:29 PM

67. Rush Limbaugh Seizes a Chance to Violate the N-Word Taboo

The talk-radio host exploits the racial anxieties of Americans to be provocative, and reaps the rewards even when criticized.

Over the years, Rush Limbaugh has raised his profile by deliberately violating various taboos. This excites his fans, who process transgressiveness as bravery, especially if it angers the left. It garners attention from Limbaugh's critics too. Outraged, they declare that he is racist, or sexist, or homophobic -- charges that prompt conservatives to rally around him, insisting that their favorite radio host isn't a bigot, just another victim of political correctness. The cycle has characterized Limbaugh's career for decades.

Limbaugh isn't always in the wrong. Sometimes his pointed satire is unobjectionable, at least insofar as it isn't racist, sexist, or homophobic, but his eager ideological antagonists declare it it to be anyway.

But too often his commentary, whether bigoted or not, is clearly odious, and for a distinct reason. At his very worst, it is beside the point to adjudicate whether Limbaugh is guilty of prejudice, because he guilty of something much worse: exploiting the racial anxieties of Americans for profit. He deliberately provokes racial controversy, both for his audience and the blowback.

more..http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/rush-limbaugh-seizes-a-chance-to-violate-the-n-word-taboo/277870/

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Response to AsahinaKimi (Reply #67)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:11 PM

74. Fools Rush In

n/t

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Response to Blue Owl (Reply #74)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:13 PM

76. Rush has been practically begging to use the N WORD on his radio show..

He is obsessed with pissing off all non white folks.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:35 PM

68. In another few years, Whites will be a minority anyway..

There is such a thing as White privilege..whether white folks want to admit or not..

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Response to HipChick (Reply #68)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:56 PM

73. And when whites' status changes from majority to plurality white privilege will

most likely continue. Whites will still hold the levers of power and because other racial communities skew young a majority of voters will continue to be white for some time to come.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #73)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:59 PM

83. They will die out soon enough..

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:45 PM

70. Bookmarked to bring out the next time somebody whines

about the lack of specific honors for the melanin impaired because you said it much better than I ever did.

As Irish, burn and peel, glow in the dark white, I fully agree with every bit of this.

Bravo!

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:46 PM

71. K&R. I feel exactly the same way about it.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 01:46 PM

72. Meh you can say whatever you want

 

What you choose to say is up to you.

You've chosen not to say the n word. Good for you. *shrug*

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #72)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 02:16 PM

77. Do you have a point? nt

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:04 PM

79. Even within the family, this is true-- my black relatives may use it but I never would

Not because of any inherent evil in the word, but because of the evil way whites use it-- always reeking of hate. As for epithets applied to "my kind" (southern, rural) I don't mind redneck, peckerwood, yahoo, yokel, hick, by anyone white or black, just can't see any equivalence whatsoever to the N word, except a false one. Nobody ever got murdered for being a redneck AFAIK.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 03:09 PM

80. For a hundred years after the Civil War blacks in the South were denied jobs off the plantations...

 

So they were still in the same position of the prior caste system that was in place before.

Poor whites of the South have always been told by their "betters" that things could be worse and then pointed to poor blacks who indeed did have it worse.

Then Republicans came along. They claimed Democrats and Liberals were to blame for the poverty of poor whites because the poor whites were paying taxes to support lazy blacks who weren't working.

And THAT, gentle reader, is how you get working class voters to vote for the same guy their boss is voting for.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:35 PM

85. White people still use it the same way they have for centuries.

Thus, no reason to think the offensiveness has diminished in any way.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 04:58 PM

86. If someone wakes up in the morning

and their life is in any way diminished by their inability to use racial slurs, they're a bigot. Peer. Eee. Odd.

You'd think it would be a rare thing, but apparently it's a serious cause for concern among some.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 05:04 PM

87. As an older blackman i was encourage not to

use the word at all. My mother said it showed a sign of disrespect and ignorance. For someone to call me that even in anger remind me of what my mother said and I say is that the best you can do, I've been called worse when you get over the brain fart I'll be gone. As for the article is concerned there are white American cultures just look at white privileges for a start.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 05:43 PM

88. Not me

I'm a white guy and I don't like the "N" word at all. It makes me cringe whenever I hear anybody say it. Even when Richard Pryor and Chris Rock use it, it makes me cringe. The "N" word is not a term of endearment or a cute nickname. It is a term that has roots of pure racial hatred. The repeated use of it in the African-American community is only making it more acceptable for everybody. Not only is it hypocritical, it gives white people the ability to say silly things like, "If they can say it, I can say it."

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 07:20 PM

89. I'm not fine with it. Hip hoppers tried to take the power from that word.

Take the power from it and racists can't use it. Keep the power in it, and it's another tool in the racist's arsenal.

I don't like words with power.

I like words in context to have power, not individual words.

Look at what the Right has done to the word Freedom. I cringe when I hear that word. I associate with oppression. It shouldn't have that power.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 07:25 PM

90. I'm white. And that word never enters my mind...

K&R

.... unless some asshole racist is in my midst and uses it. You know those times, like in a sports arena, when someone around you uses the word. I sometimes give them a one of my famous "looks-that-kill," and if they are sitting beside or directly in front of me, I accidentally-on-purpose spill my beer all over them. If it's an old man, I just dump popcorn all over them. Assholes.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #90)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 08:58 AM

132. I remember hearing it once.

In a grocery store parking lot. A white woman in a car was yelling angrily at a black woman in the parking lot and I heard it, clear as day.

I was tempted to go over to her car and give her a piece of my mind, but by that time, she had driven off and the black woman had already gotten in her car.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #132)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 09:45 AM

133. Dayam... Oh well, you can get her twice the next time. Otherwise, be nice. ;-)

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:15 PM

92. Another old white dude here. Great post. Thanks.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:16 PM

93. I'm Not White. White is a Color, not a Person

I'm West European, a mix of Celt, Teuton and Iberian. And I regard 'wh**ey', "h**ky" and "c**cker' as racial insults. I don't use them, and I reject their use by others.

What do European people want to be called, our real names, English, Deutscher, Nederlander, Nordmaend, Svensker, Dansker, Soumalainen, Francais, Vlaamse, Wallon, Schweitzer, Brzezonek, Erinnach, Scot, Cymraeg, Euskaldun, Catala, Castellano, Aragones, Portugues, Italiano, Siciliano, Srpski, Hrvatski, Hellene, Shqipieri, Bulgar, Romin, Czech, Slovak, Polski, Russki, Afrikaner, Arab, Berber, Turkce, Lietuva, Eesti, Latviesu, Ukrainskie, Belarusski, and more.

Wolf

I apologize in advance for any errors in the above.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:43 PM

95. Bravo !



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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:47 PM

96. Well said, Tommy.

This old white guy couldn't agree more.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 08:50 PM

98. Great thread, Tommy.

It's important to recognize that in some ways we are all different from each other, and in some other ways we are all alike.



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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:02 PM

99. What you say is true.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 10:49 PM

101. K&R and THANK YOU.

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:16 PM

104. Brilliant

This white-ass cracker agrees..we have absolutely nothing to complain about. Only a loser who couldn't succceed with the benefits of being white would not unerstand. Of course they'll vote Republcan.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:28 PM

105. Tommy: publish this.

Publish it now. At least copyright it.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Thu Jul 18, 2013, 11:43 PM

106. Low class word

Used in ignorance no matter what their color

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:33 AM

107. i'll end the discussion. no one should use it ever, ever, ever. period, end of report!

 

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:34 AM

108. I take a bit of issue with "you look like fools."

I suggest that they look like racists, as well.

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Response to BobTheSubgenius (Reply #108)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 08:44 AM

131. Well, naturally.

To me, the two are mutually inclusive.

Why would any white person want to say that word?

I personally have no desire.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 12:37 AM

109. I forgot to mention....

....nice post. Well thought out, well written. All things that need to be said, but shouldn't.

Shouldn't need to be said, that is. People should KNOW this.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:34 AM

111. EXACTLY!

Which is why as a southerner by birth I despise assholes displaying the Confederate battle flag and claiming that it is 'heritage, not hate.'

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 01:35 AM

112. Fuckin' A.

The deliberate ignorance among white people is simply astounding.

And I'm a middle aged white woman.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 02:07 AM

113. Whitey here agrees. Except

white culture is the dominant culture. But that is changing.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:47 AM

114. Well spoken

Thank you.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 03:56 AM

119. K&R. Excellent post.

It's well past time for someone to say it.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 06:46 AM

128. Actually there certainly IS a "white American culture"

 

It's just that it also happens to be the "default" culture of the country. White Anglophonic culture is the overwhelmingly dominant culture in the United States. It's the defining standard of media, it's the defining standard of literature, it's the defining standard of fashion and beauty, it's overwhelmingly the standard for language, and is pretty much the standard for faith as well.

It's just that due to one's own whiteness, and the all-encompasing dominance of this culture, that people seem to believe there's no such culture.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2013, 07:46 AM

130. As a white mom, I'm NOT fine with that word -

- being used by anyone no matter their color or ethnicity and here's why:

My very white with red hair son - who is a sweet, friendly, gentle giant sort of kid - switched schools in his elementary years. His first school had few kids of color. The new school had lots of kids of color. He began to make new friends and one friend was a young boy of color. My son talked about him at home and was having a lot of fun with this new friend at school.

My son wasn't familiar with the N word when he began that school. We don't use it. Yet, the kids at this new school called each other the N word. These kids had been in school together since 1st grade and were longtime friends. My son was the new kid on the block. My son thought that word conveyed friendship in this group of kids. So - in wanting to be their friend - he used the word.

OMG. The fallout was horrific. His new friends turned on him, he came home from school upset and didn't know why they were so mad at him. I had to explain the history of the word and told him that his new friends of color could use it but he could not, which made no sense to him. It explained it was considered an insult coming from him because he's white.

My son was then afraid to go to school and I told him to talk honestly to his new friend, to apologize and explain that he didn't understand that he couldn't use that word, and tell him he was trying to be a friend like the rest of his buddies who were allowed to use the word. My son did that and the young man accepted his apology.

In essence, I had to teach my son racism in order to explain why he - as a white, red headed boy - couldn't use that word. That was 15 years ago. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. If a word is powerful enough that you have to teach children racism in order to make them understand that they can't use the word, then the word needs to go. And that means by everyone.

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