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Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:08 PM

How does Juror B37 know that Zimmerman didn't grab Trayvon's sweatshirt and try to hold onto him?

Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go" and Trayvon's hoodie drawstring was pulled way down on the right side, something that can happen when someone grabs your sweatshirt there and pulls.

Juror B37 said that Trayvon is very much responsible for his own death because he didn't leave the scene after George let things go too far (poor Georgie!) and that is the reason George was forced to kill Trayvon.

She apparently never even considered that George may have grabbed Trayvon. Everything B37 says reveals that she simply never heard Rachel Jeantel aside from the "creepy ass cracker" comment. Said that if Rachel had heard something happening (which she did, and testified to) why didn't she say anything? Said that she didn't know anything about Trayvon because nobody talked about what he was like (oh yeah? I heard several hours of Rachel testifying and talking about what Trayvon was like.

B37 must have color deafness.

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Reply How does Juror B37 know that Zimmerman didn't grab Trayvon's sweatshirt and try to hold onto him? (Original post)
Duer 157099 Jul 2013 OP
onehandle Jul 2013 #1
Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #2
Whisp Jul 2013 #17
dflprincess Jul 2013 #21
bench scientist Jul 2013 #4
yardwork Jul 2013 #46
Quixote1818 Jul 2013 #3
avebury Jul 2013 #7
XemaSab Jul 2013 #47
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #5
naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #14
Carolina Jul 2013 #18
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #20
brush Jul 2013 #31
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #36
brush Jul 2013 #37
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #39
brush Jul 2013 #45
laundry_queen Jul 2013 #19
Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #25
brush Jul 2013 #30
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #35
brush Jul 2013 #38
AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #40
brush Jul 2013 #42
AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #43
brush Jul 2013 #44
Maximumnegro Jul 2013 #49
TampaAnimusVortex Jul 2013 #6
HipChick Jul 2013 #8
Mojo Electro Jul 2013 #15
targetpractice Jul 2013 #9
AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #41
mzmolly Jul 2013 #10
Pholus Jul 2013 #11
pokerfan Jul 2013 #12
Igel Jul 2013 #23
Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #13
naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #16
TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #26
Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #24
frylock Jul 2013 #22
Igel Jul 2013 #27
TorchTheWitch Jul 2013 #28
davidn3600 Jul 2013 #29
brush Jul 2013 #32
GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #34
GiaGiovanni Jul 2013 #33
davidpdx Jul 2013 #48

Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:16 PM

1. Her log told her.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:18 PM

2. OMG you know, I get that

Wonder how many do or will?

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:41 PM

17. I do. Had to think about it for a minute.

 

LOL!

one of the best series ever.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:51 PM

21. I do!

But the original had a smarter log.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:25 PM

4. nope, I think even the log would have come back with AT LEAST guilty of manslaughter...

after all the log did say "The tender boughs of innocence burn first, and the wind rises, and then all goodness is in jeopardy."

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Response to onehandle (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 02:24 PM

46. The log lady was much smarter.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:21 PM

3. Based on Zimmerman's want to be a hero attitude and not wanting the A-Hole to get away


This has been my theory all along. He was going to hold the kid until the cops got there and maybe make up a story that the kid did something to him if things went bad.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:28 PM

7. Exactly which is why I also think that

Zimmerman already had the gun out. He probably panicked and shot Trayvon and then fell back on his classroom work to fabricate a story to sell the incident as self defense.

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Response to avebury (Reply #7)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:00 PM

47. The ballistics dude said Trayvon was on top

and the 911 call recorded someone yelling for help.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:26 PM

5. The hysteria about this case has been all about emotion..

I hate to have to say it, but it's been all about emotion, and very little about facts. It's to the point people are making up scenarios out of whole cloth, from "the gun recoil broke Zimmerman's nose" to this.

You may not like how this turned out, it may make you angry, but that doesn't entitle anyone to their own facts. I can't recall any time in recent history that I've seen people's rational thinking more decimated by knee-jerk, foaming-at-the-mouth, emotional outrage than I do over this case. It is clouding a lot of people's judgement.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:36 PM

14. The gun recoil broke his nose,

 

Was pretty much the dumbest of them.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:42 PM

18. Ya think?!

Poor Georgie, so innocent, protecting his neighborhood from assholes and punks. This was the defense; they exploited emotion, white racist emotion.

There's no hysteria; there's righteous anger about injustice!

Usually I welcome newcomers, but you sound like a troll... bye, bye

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Response to Carolina (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:47 PM

20. There's no hysteria?

Really? Sorry you think I'm a troll. Maybe I just still have my wits about me. I'm surprised at what DU has become.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:50 PM

31. We're also surprised

at all the zimmerman supporters on here. Never would've thunk it on this site.

What's your position on this? We'd like to know, seeing as you only have 44 posts and you say you're surprised at what we've become.

You can tell that after just 44 posts?

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Response to brush (Reply #31)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:04 AM

36. For one thing...

Just because someone may have a different opinion about the actual facts of the case does not automatically make them a "Zimmerman supporter".

Second, I've been on DU before, but I didn't use my old login for a few years and couldn't get back in. Long story short, this place seemed more open to someone having a different opinion in the past. I've seen posts getting alerted left and right, and people being called trolls and such, for posts that are clearly not disruptive, someone didn't like what the person had to say and didn't think they had a place. I served on such a jury. Clearly the alert was of spite. I voted "Leave it alone"

That's what I mean about emotion taking over. Since when are differing opinions treated with such outright hostiliy? If you don't toe the line on the Zimmerman thing, you don't belong on DU, is that it?

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:08 AM

37. What's your position on zimmerman then? nt

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Response to brush (Reply #37)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:53 AM

39. To answer your question...

I think he's an asshole, a busybody, a wanna-be cop who should have just minded his own business. I do not think he is a racist, or this incident was racially motivated. I think the jury made the correct decision with the evidence that they had before them.

I'm sure I'll be called a "Zimmerman supporter" for the answer I've given to your question. That's not true. I'm no fan of Zimmy, and I can't stand people like him.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 02:03 PM

45. Okay. We feel the same

way except I think the jury should have found him guilty.

3 of them initially voted to convict him but allowed their minds to be sway somehow probably by the juror B37, who apparently didn't even consider anything but the defense's story.

Too bad they weren't stronger because there were so many inconsistencies and even impossibilities in what zimmerman said on the tapes.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:46 PM

19. The United States is a nation of emotions over facts

I think it started when GWB talked about going with his gut.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:11 PM

25. From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go"

Is that out of whole cloth? Please, go on...

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:47 PM

30. Well we certainly didn't get the real story

from zimmerman who was trying to save his ass. He lied so many times I don't see how any of the jury members believe a word of his story. No I take that back. They are all white with one seemly wannabe white, and they're from central Florida, not exactly a center of racial tolerance and critical thinking.

So what's your take on it? Do you also thinking Trayvon Martin jumped out of bushes and head bashed zimmy on concrete 20-30 times while also punching him 35-45 times while also smothering his mouth and nose without getting a speck of zimmerman dna on him or any marks on his hands?

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Response to brush (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 04:52 AM

35. I don't know about the number of hits, etc...

But it seems pretty obvious Zimmy was getting his ass whipped, a fact that the case hinged on.

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:12 AM

38. It's not obvious he was getting his ass whipped

I thought you were following the case.

The woman ME testified that zimmerman's injuries were very minor and just needed a band-aid for treatment.

That's not what I called getting his ass whipped.

That's what I call another of the glaring lies zimmerman told and that the jury chose to overlook.

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Response to brush (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:08 PM

40. I think he was getting his ass kicked

 

I think he was emboldened because he had a gun. He started the fight. When he started getting his ass kicked, he pulled out the gun and shot Trayvon.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #40)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:43 PM

42. I agree with most

of what you wrote. I guess we disagree on what the definition of getting his ass kicked means.

I don't think there was much of a fight in other words. There was no evidence of a fight on Trayvon, no scratches or bruises or zimmerman dna.

I think zimmerman tried to hold Martin for the cops, there was a brief struggle, then zimmerman just pulled out the gun and shot.

All that stuff about the head bashes and face punching and nose and mouth smothering is just not back up by evidence from Trayvon's unmarked body.

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Response to brush (Reply #42)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:17 PM

43. By getting his ass kicked

 

I mean he started losing the fight that he started.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:55 PM

44. Maybe

but why no physical evidence on Trayvon's body?

I think zimmerman shot him pretty quickly in the struggle. Rachel Jantel even testified that she heard Trayvon say to "get off me."

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Response to Mojo Electro (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:38 PM

49. You are blessed by the Gods to have such insight

if only those of us who have been so immersed in the how and the whys of institutionalized racism for centuries were able to have the phenomenal objectivity you and others like you have attained, we would surely know the grace this verdict has brought us.

Every day you wake up you should count yourself lucky that you're able to have the viewpoint you do, because for a lot of us our personal histories are riddled with the dead whose obituaries were written by those of similar minds as you.

Really. You lucked out. Enjoy it.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:27 PM

6. That would have been up to the prosecution to make that case.

And while that evidence might have been somewhat leading, it isn't really conclusive. It still comes down to the fact that there isn't any real good solid evidence about who threw the first punch and the law is set up to presume the accused is innocent.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:30 PM

8. I believe he had his gun out and tortured that child with it

before shooting him in the heart..

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Response to HipChick (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:38 PM

15. I look forward to hearing how the evidence supports this. n/t

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:30 PM

9. Was she the juror that refused to look at Rachel? n/t

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Response to targetpractice (Reply #9)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:10 PM

41. The jurors all apparently agreed

 

She is being used as the scapegoat, but all of the jurors agreed. We would probably hear similar bs from the other five too.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:31 PM

10. I do wish the prosecution had painted such a scenario

for the jury to ponder. I think they got side tracked when DiMaio testified and their own ME didn't remember the case. They just didn't have a comprehensive story.

B37 is an idiot, regardless.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:32 PM

11. I am starting to have doubts that many Americans have the critical thinking skills to serve

as effective and responsible members of a jury. The moment that "Jury profiling" became popular, it indicated that actual logic is not as important as pre-existing sympathy.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:32 PM

12. Georgie didn't leave the area either

There was a difference of ~3 minutes between the ending of his call with the dispatcher and the abrupt/violent ending of Trayvon's call with Rachel. George told the dispatcher that he was heading back to his truck, only about thirty seconds away.

What was George doing during that time? Apparently, still hinting Trayvon, per Rachel's testimony that Trayvon said that the "guy was back" and was "getting closer."

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:04 PM

23. Thank you.

"He's back" rather means "he was gone" and we can suppose that GZ didn't know where TM was.

I'd missed that.

I thought that TM had run and hidden someplace. But it makes no sense for GZ to be following TM and then go away enough for TM to say, "He's back" and then "He's getting closer." And if you were being stalked, would you let GZ "get closer" voluntarily if you were walking along? I'd pick up the pace--if we were 20 feet apart for the last 5 minutes, we could stay 20 feet apart until help arrived.

"Hidden" might just mean he stepped off the sidewalk and was near a building partly hidden by a tree. But I couldn't reconcile having GZ following TM for as long as the phone call took + most of the two minutes without them winding up far, far away from where they started. Or doing multiple circuits around the block.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:34 PM

13. The the prosecution ever enter evidence to suggest that is what happened?

 

Under the legal system we have now, it is the prosecutions job to prove that Zimmerman is guilty.
It is not Zimmermans job to prove he is innocent, so if there was no evidence presented that that did happen, she is not going to automatically assume it.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:38 PM

16. The prosecution did a shitty job.

 

They had three things on their side:

1. Zimmerman following Martin.
2 . Jenteals testimony that trayvon was trying to get away.
3. Martin dead with no blood on his hands.


That was the story. Instead they wasted hours with witnesses that helped the defense and didnt prep Jenteal well.

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Response to naaman fletcher (Reply #16)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:22 PM

26. I think many either cannot or have great difficulty separating what they believe and what is proven

Or maybe even more separating that there is evidence to support what they believe and what is proven beyond plausibility and a bigger issue with what I believe to be a purely circumstantial or even exceptional desire for a legal bar somewhere between presumption of guilt and most probable.

The prospect of facing a jury with the attitudes toward the system and defendants in general among Democrats is daunting. Add in the TeaPubliKlan anti-justice brigade and a state with unlimited dollars and every incentive to win rather than seek justice and it is frightening to think of being innocent under that hammer unless about ever wind is at your back.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:10 PM

24. From the OP: "Rachel heard Trayvon yelling "get offa me!" which people also use to mean "let me go"

I know everyone is ignoring what Rachel HEARD, so yeah, no evidence whatsoever.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:52 PM

22. the only thing this stupid fuck heard was the sound of cash regiters

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:23 PM

27. And this matters how, exactly?

During the scuffle all kinds of things might have happened. GZ might have thrown the first punch. Might not have. GZ might have been reaching to pull TM out of hiding. Might not have. GZ might have tripped and fallen on TM's feet. Might not have.


Doesn't matter.


At the moment when we suddenly start to care for the purposes of the law, it's clear enough.

We have all kinds of attempts to show that TM is innocent of things, that GZ is guilty of things, but ultimately none of them matters in oh so many ways.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:27 PM

28. I'm convinced she heard none of the trial

She even said that she believed that Zimmerman fabricated and embellished a lot but that she found him truthful.


I guess she could also find someone skinny but also fat.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:29 PM

29. Yeah but that's not how it works. Zimmerman has the presumption of innocence

 

It's up to the prosecution to prove that it wasn't self-defense. The prosecution can't just make suggestions...they have to give proof.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:07 PM

32. Yeah, in Florida

because of their ALEC-written, NRA-championed and Koch-sponsored laws prosecutors have to prove that an admitted killer of an unarmed teen, caught with the murder weapon, is guilty. Unbelievable!

We have now crossed over into Bizarro World and unfortunately there is no turning back.

Up is now down, fat is now thin, heavy is now light, fast is now slow, but black is not white, only white is white and it is always right.

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Response to brush (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:24 PM

34. ALEC laws have got to be brought down. They are wreaking havoc on our country.

 

The Kochs are a couple of evil bastards.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:23 PM

33. Because nobody knows

 

Remember that the jury had to work with a select number of facts, and there are no eyewitnesses for what happened between Zimmerman's call to the police and the eventual fight on the grass.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Original post)

Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:45 PM

48. Although this wasn't the case to begin with

I now feel the jury disregarded the testimony of the prosecution witnesses and were bias to a degree before the trial started.

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