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MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 08:32 PM Jul 2013

Very revealing post from another board I frequent.

"I am still trying to get my head around a conversation I had recently with a man I have known for more than 40 years. He is my other brother - my mother loved him as much as if she had given birth to him. When he enlisted in the Air Force after high school, our house was the first phone call he made from basic training. Our house was the first place he came on his first leave. He happens to be black.

We were talking recently about an occasion in which he went to court a few years ago. He said that the judge said, 'You are a 50-year-old black man and you have never been arrested?' My brother said, 'No sir, I have never been arrested.' Husband and my brother looked at each other & husband nodded and my brother continued with the story. I was flabbergasted - at both the judge's assumption that it was an unusual thing that 50-year-old black man had never been arrested and husband's and my brother's casual acceptance of the fact that of course the judge would think that. The judge would never have been surprised if my brother were a white 50-year-old man who had never been arrested. It would have never been occasion for comment. It simply would never have come up. Can you imagine that question to a blonde, blue-eyed white man? 'You are a 50-year-old white man and you have never been arrested?' The cultural context just blows my mind, as does my brother's and husband's matter-of-fact acceptance of it."

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Very revealing post from another board I frequent. (Original Post) MoonRiver Jul 2013 OP
Thanks. bvar22 Jul 2013 #1
+ reusrename Jul 2013 #2
Kind of like Christopher Columbus "found" America. tclambert Jul 2013 #4
They were all just a bunch of ignorant savages until Chris showed up Orrex Jul 2013 #14
perfect! MoonRiver Jul 2013 #8
yahoo news heaven05 Jul 2013 #9
how do you know the woman in the left photo is white? She looks a lot like one of my closest KittyWampus Jul 2013 #13
Really? 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #17
Yes, really. She moved away to D.C. in 11th grade. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #39
I also know someone whose skin is white as white can be Cronus Protagonist Jul 2013 #21
Is that you Juror 37? Tutonic Jul 2013 #25
Now why would you want to paint me as a racist rube? Cronus Protagonist Jul 2013 #34
Doesn't matter. The person in the back is white Gormy Cuss Jul 2013 #32
um ... wooosh! Kali Jul 2013 #51
excuse me? do you have some relevant comment to make? KittyWampus Jul 2013 #52
your comment about the woman who might be black yet looked white Kali Jul 2013 #53
Sorry, but that photo gets used with the assumption both people are white. You can make a secondary KittyWampus Jul 2013 #54
+1000 Liberal_in_LA Jul 2013 #28
I talked to a guy loyalsister Jul 2013 #33
Many people who were stranded NOLALady Jul 2013 #55
The same guy talked about standing on a roof of a high rise with helicopter flying over loyalsister Jul 2013 #57
I have not doubt that "looters" kept them alive loyalsister Jul 2013 #58
Nailed it. ctsnowman Jul 2013 #37
Wow! tofuandbeer Jul 2013 #48
If you want a good laugh, check the archives and see what some DUers were saying then... Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #49
From Snopes oberliner Jul 2013 #56
zero tolerance hopemountain Jul 2013 #3
Yes, I just wish I knew how to combat this monster better. MoonRiver Jul 2013 #6
we combat this by making sure we do not tolerate hopemountain Jul 2013 #11
exactly... Bully Taw Jul 2013 #24
Patience.. SomethingFishy Jul 2013 #59
if we do something about it now hopemountain Jul 2013 #62
I so agree, especially with you last clause. MoonRiver Jul 2013 #63
Agree, zero tolerance. mountain grammy Jul 2013 #40
that's heaven05 Jul 2013 #5
Perhaps in the years since the author has come to understand how the judge could ask that, jtuck004 Jul 2013 #7
jtuck004, it wasn't me who had this experience. MoonRiver Jul 2013 #10
I realized that after I posted it. But yeah. Although the one that I think persuaded most of jtuck004 Jul 2013 #15
Yeah, there is. MoonRiver Jul 2013 #16
No mystery to me Warpy Jul 2013 #12
yep grasswire Jul 2013 #60
Telling, indeed. snort Jul 2013 #18
I've been asked that question by ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #19
this shit makes me angry Liberal_in_LA Jul 2013 #27
And I am sad to say nadinbrzezinski Jul 2013 #20
I had the same reaction while watching Levar Burton on CNN talk about 'when [he] get's pulled over' apnu Jul 2013 #22
Omg. To think Levar Burton needs to act in such a way.. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #29
Right!? apnu Jul 2013 #30
In his speech yesterday at the NAACP convention, Holder mentions it happening to him MoonRiver Jul 2013 #35
And while he was a federal prosecutor no less!! nt 2naSalit Jul 2013 #44
I don't see how any man kalisto2010 Jul 2013 #23
Are you serious? Tutonic Jul 2013 #26
WTF?!? No male in my family has ever been arrested Raine Jul 2013 #61
It is very easy. Just obey the law. Just thge opposite is true, few are arrested. Coyotl Sep 2013 #64
2 teen boys, one white, one black tblue Jul 2013 #31
There's a lot of research about how racism takes hold in the subconscious. MoonRiver Jul 2013 #36
K & R ctsnowman Jul 2013 #38
Maybe the judge is aware daybranch Jul 2013 #41
That's what I would have wondered as well, reflection Jul 2013 #45
I believe this story oldandhappy Jul 2013 #42
the insidiousness of racism, and its acceptance noiretextatique Jul 2013 #43
What judge is really asking .... zentrum Jul 2013 #46
We are all filled with these perceptions zipplewrath Jul 2013 #47
We've got to be carefully taught locks Jul 2013 #50
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. how do you know the woman in the left photo is white? She looks a lot like one of my closest
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:47 PM
Jul 2013

friends in high school, and she was black.

Cronus Protagonist

(15,574 posts)
21. I also know someone whose skin is white as white can be
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:42 PM
Jul 2013

And his parents are both "black". His nickname at school was "Blackie"... lol he was awesome. No one ever thought he was "black", but he would tell you and show you pics of his mom and dad who are both "black"... he's just the "white sheep of the family", he would say. And he was not adopted. Natural birth.

He was a good guy all round too... a fine young gentleman.

Cronus Protagonist

(15,574 posts)
34. Now why would you want to paint me as a racist rube?
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 01:32 AM
Jul 2013

Because I have a white "black" friend? I'm going to tell him all about you now.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
32. Doesn't matter. The person in the back is white
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:32 AM
Jul 2013

and that photo wasn't the only time that the description was different when white people were reclaiming supplies after Katrina.

Kali

(54,990 posts)
53. your comment about the woman who might be black yet looked white
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 03:45 PM
Jul 2013

was exactly the point, which seemed to fly right over your head

people who look white get a pass, look black and you are automatically a criminal

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
54. Sorry, but that photo gets used with the assumption both people are white. You can make a secondary
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 03:58 PM
Jul 2013

observation. But it is secondary.

But hey, it's the internet and you managed to prove you are more liberal… or something. congratulations.

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
55. Many people who were stranded
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 05:59 PM
Jul 2013

some in hotels, told me that the looters kept them alive.

There were many elderly and babies stranded in high rise hotels. The "looters" went out everyday to "find" food, diapers, water, etc.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
57. The same guy talked about standing on a roof of a high rise with helicopter flying over
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 07:48 PM
Jul 2013

while he was standing there with his kid just wanting a can opener. One of the most heart breaking and telling images I ever heard.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
58. I have not doubt that "looters" kept them alive
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 07:52 PM
Jul 2013

I thought the term was completely inappropriate from the beginning. It was hard work to go out and get what people needed. I have no doubt that people were feeding and caring for family and friends that way.

ctsnowman

(1,903 posts)
37. Nailed it.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:16 AM
Jul 2013

Add this to the fact that every story about welfare has a black family even though most recipients are white.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
3. zero tolerance
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:25 PM
Jul 2013

we must have zero tolerance for all of the ugly faces of bigotry. even the slightest whiff. i pledge this in my life right here right now. i will not tolerate it any longer for my children and my children's children. thank you for sharing.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
6. Yes, I just wish I knew how to combat this monster better.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
Jul 2013

I've always been against bigotry and racism, yet here we go again.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
11. we combat this by making sure we do not tolerate
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:41 PM
Jul 2013

bigotry in our own thoughts, words, actions, and hearts. walk the talk.

far from perfect, i have biases about certain people/classes of people - i meditate to have a more open and loving heart and to have courage to face the ugliness and not dismiss the reality. i strive to be a light - but also a warrior - and to know when retreat is the higher road. some tough lessons to learn.

 

Bully Taw

(194 posts)
24. exactly...
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 11:38 PM
Jul 2013

people should be judged on their history, present and future, not on their skin color. Across the board, person only, not race.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
59. Patience..
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:02 PM
Jul 2013

It's going to take time.. Look how long between the abolishment of slavery and the civil rights act... It's a generational thing. Things are better, they still suck, but they are better and they keep improving. We have a black president. He's being impeded at every turn and the subtle, underlying racism in the criticism is there, but the man is President!

2 or 3 generations from now race will not matter at all.... if we survive that long..

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
62. if we do something about it now
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 09:30 PM
Jul 2013

yes, a couple more generations. there are some awesome young people with open hearts and minds coming into their own and i know they will have a huge part in making things better.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
5. that's
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:28 PM
Jul 2013

TRUE example of amerikkkan culture. How disgusting is this situation. I'm 65, categorized black by the amerikkkan apartheid system and never been arrested.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
7. Perhaps in the years since the author has come to understand how the judge could ask that,
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:29 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)

to have such an assumption.

If white folk were treated like blacks (arrested in greater numbers, jailed and with higher sentences - hell, black folk with the same credit, same jobs were even charged higher interest rates in the screwing the banks did to all of us which caused the financial crisis of the past few years), it would be resolved in a week.

During last week's lynching ( know everyone calls it a trial but the outcome is so similar I have trouble telling the difference) I briefly caught a glimpse of a chart that Mark O'Mara put up in the courtroom, showed a bunch of arrests for crimes in Sanford, ALL black men. While some took that as evidence of a problem, I found myself asking why they only arrested black men, because it strains credulity to think that white people don't commit crimes there as well.

Great post, btw.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
10. jtuck004, it wasn't me who had this experience.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
Jul 2013

If I had been on that Zimmerman jury it would have hung. Guess that's why I would never make it through voir dire (sp?). Deck stacked some?

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
15. I realized that after I posted it. But yeah. Although the one that I think persuaded most of
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:02 PM
Jul 2013

the people on the jury made it through, lying through her teeth. So there is hope, eh?

Warpy

(110,909 posts)
12. No mystery to me
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 09:43 PM
Jul 2013

A stepped up police war against black males was how the PTB prevented the Civil Rights legislation from taking full effect.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
60. yep
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:10 PM
Jul 2013

30 percent of black men cannot vote because of a felony conviction.

An cynic might say that all that incarceration was useful in keeping unemployment down. Feh.

snort

(2,334 posts)
18. Telling, indeed.
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:25 PM
Jul 2013

Thanks for relating this.

You used a blonde haired blue eyed white man as an example. I've spent most of my life living in rural areas and small towns, so low populations, and I honestly think that I could count the number of blonde haired blue eyed men that I have met using just my fingers, no toes. Is it the Arizona sun that drives them away?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
19. I've been asked that question by ...
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:26 PM
Jul 2013

law enforcement, at every traffic stop, and the one time I had to go to traffic court. I'm not surprised.

apnu

(8,722 posts)
22. I had the same reaction while watching Levar Burton on CNN talk about 'when [he] get's pulled over'
Tue Jul 16, 2013, 10:52 PM
Jul 2013


The casual inevitability in his voice struck me to the core. He knows he's going to be pulled over for no damn reason.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
35. In his speech yesterday at the NAACP convention, Holder mentions it happening to him
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:15 AM
Jul 2013

on the DC freeways!

Raine

(30,540 posts)
61. WTF?!? No male in my family has ever been arrested
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:45 PM
Jul 2013

going back for generations, thank goodness. Geesh what a point of view!

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
64. It is very easy. Just obey the law. Just thge opposite is true, few are arrested.
Tue Sep 24, 2013, 05:23 PM
Sep 2013

Not to mention, half the young people smoke weed and are never arrested.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
31. 2 teen boys, one white, one black
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:31 AM
Jul 2013

were acting like fools, racing each other on the freeway, and got pulled over and ticketed for going over 90 mph. They had to go to court, separately, but saw the same judge. White kid had his license suspended for 3 months. Black kid had his suspended for 6 months.

Parents of both teens (all are good friends) complained about the disparity. So the judge cut the black kid's suspension to 3 months, same as the white kid's. What struck me was that the judge gave no justification whatsoever for the disparity in their original sentencing. Didn't even try to defend it as based something other than race.

I know these families. Have known all of them for a long time. The white family is very progressive and the mom is very outspoken. The black kid, actually his mom is white, but you can't really tell looking at him. I just wonder if these parents looked like Trayvon's if the judge would have given them the time of day.

The judge probably tells himself he's not a racist. It wasn't overt racism to him, what he did. But it was just as natural for him as saying this is up and this is down. Clearly what he did was indisputably racist but he did it without even processing it, without even thinking about it. And I think that's even worse. That's how deeply ingrained race bias is in our judicial system. It's as natural as the sun coming up in the morning.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
36. There's a lot of research about how racism takes hold in the subconscious.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 08:18 AM
Jul 2013

People are not even aware that they are racist until confronted with irrefutable proof, such as what happened to that judge.

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
41. Maybe the judge is aware
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 10:52 AM
Jul 2013

that black men get arrested more frequently or maybe the judge was aware that black men are racially profiled and convicted at higher rates etc. A black man has to walk a tigher line to avoid being arrested in our society, so to me the fact that he has never been arrested attests to a higher standard of conduct as compared to the average white man. While you may be offended, what did judge do? Did he use that information in favor of your brother? As a white man aware that racial prejudice exists within my own mind, I guard against taking action based on that prejudice and hiopefully that is what the judge did. He should have seen a person that had been held to a higher standard and had met it. Knowing more by asking questions is not always evidence of racially motivated action. Sometimes it is just to be as fair as possible, but obviously you felt different. What actually happened after that remark?

reflection

(6,286 posts)
45. That's what I would have wondered as well,
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
Jul 2013

was the judge astounded at the fact that a black man made to 50 without committing a crime, or that he made it to 50 without the police screwing him at some point? Hopefully the latter.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
42. I believe this story
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:33 AM
Jul 2013

Sad

Used to work with an Hispanic man, Ph.D., who said he got stopped and searched each time he crossed our local border with Mexico. No way he fit any profile except how his face looked.

Glad for the people in the story that they all have each other.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
43. the insidiousness of racism, and its acceptance
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:39 AM
Jul 2013

is a huge part of the problem. one of the news magazines did a sting of sorts recently. they used actors to portray a store owner and a customer. the man who was the store owner refused to serve the customer, a woman wearing a hijab. he called her a terrorist and said she was not american. 6 or so of the customers agreed with him, and several disagreed with him and supported the woman. one man in particular was very passionate in his support of the woman, and he said his son fought in iraq.

however, the vast majority of people didn't do or say anything...they were good germans. they were silent because of shame, apathy,l embarrassment, agreement: whatever. the point is: they did nothing. this is how isms fester: good people do nothing.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
46. What judge is really asking ....
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
Jul 2013

....and doesn't realize it is: "You mean our systemic racism hasn't ensnared you before this?"

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
47. We are all filled with these perceptions
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jul 2013

We are all filled with misconceptions that draw us to conclusions we think are just "common sense". Fat people, old people, young people, blind people. They all have stories of having to regularly face the misconceived assumptions of others.

Someone that was suprised that a skydiver had and emergency parachute in addition to his sport canopy. He was asked in a surprised tone, "Why do you have an emergency chute, I thought you didn't care if you die?".

A fat person was walking out of a gym and someone said "why do you bother?"

My wife is quite thin. She works hard at staying that way (history of diseases in the family). People always say how "lucky" she is that she can "eat anything". Are you kidding? She diets constantly.

A blind person I knew told the story from college. They were sitting around talking about sex. She told some story and someone else said "you have sex?" Yeah, blind people are all celibate.

These things come because the we have separated communities. Of course for a long time we had them because of laws. Now, of course, we have them out of choice as much as anything. People tend to congregate with "their own", whatever the definition of "us" is.

locks

(2,012 posts)
50. We've got to be carefully taught
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jul 2013

When I was a child I thought if "Negroes" (as we called them) would just talk, dress, and act right they wouldn't have so many problems. Of course I meant if their parents just taught them to imitate "white" everyone would accept them. It was the same for "hillbillies", "poor white trash", Italians, "retards", gay persons, "Japs", Chinamen, Germans during the wars ( despite all my family having immigrated from Germany). Though I lived in a small town where almost everyone was poor and I never really knew any of "those people" there was always some group lower on the ladder than we were. Only a few years before in my town a cross was burned in front of the Catholic church and KuKluxKlan were elected to the Indiana State legislature.

After leaving that environment I saw the fallacy of such beliefs but I still couldn't understand why there was so much hate and discrimination. I was shocked when I moved east that "Portugees" and Puerto Ricans were looked down on and when I moved west American Indians were mostly seen as lazy alcoholics. And immigrant workers had no rights. And in Colorado the KuKluxKlan had also dominated the State legislature. When I went South I found out that Americans (many of whom are still fighting the Civil War) not only looked alike, they were brothers. And I wondered how the Troubles in Northern Island went on for so many terrible years when to me Catholics and Protestants look and act alike!

How did the Troubles finally decrease? Belfast is the most segregated city in the world. They built walls, just as Israel is doing, just as we are paying millions to do along the border between Mexico and the US. I am old now; I know walls never bring the kind of peace that changes hearts or minds. But I have hope that when we carefully teach our children to understand and embrace differences real peace and integrated communities will have a chance.

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