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Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:16 PM

a 5'11" person, grabbed from behind by a 5'7" person, would probably

fling their elbow around....catching the shorter person behind, in the NOSE..

Person behind (startled) , "might" have been knocked off their feet and sent reeling backwards "wet grass & sneakers" onto the drain, concrete, whatever..(creating gravel/pebble on concrete smallish wounds on a bald head)

That person, furious, might just have drawn the gun (if it were not already in his hand)..that could certainly cause the other person to begin screaming for help. (seeing a gun)

If the falling person held onto to clothing grabbed, the taller person (wet grass) could have certainly have been dragged down with the falling person, and a tussle undoubtedly would have occurred as one tried to hold on and the other tried to escape.

That is what I wish the prosecution had proffered..

There would not necessarily have been nose-blood on the elbow of the garment, since the nose may not have instantly bled.

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Reply a 5'11" person, grabbed from behind by a 5'7" person, would probably (Original post)
SoCalDem Jul 2013 OP
hedgehog Jul 2013 #1
targetpractice Jul 2013 #4
targetpractice Jul 2013 #2
itsrobert Jul 2013 #3
onenote Jul 2013 #5
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #14
Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #6
DCBob Jul 2013 #13
Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #16
DCBob Jul 2013 #17
SoCalDem Jul 2013 #22
Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #7
SoCalDem Jul 2013 #8
ceonupe Jul 2013 #9
customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #10
SoCalDem Jul 2013 #11
customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #18
SoCalDem Jul 2013 #21
HiPointDem Jul 2013 #15
DCBob Jul 2013 #12
Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #19
SoCalDem Jul 2013 #20

Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:21 PM

1. I think this covers all the witness observations and physical evidence the best.

It also covers the headphones being knocked off.




Now I have an image of Trayvon trying to pull away while George keeps hold of his sweat shirt so he proves he can capture punks.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:29 PM

4. Or, realizing that he snuck up on a kid while brandishing a gun.

Zimmerman was trying to keep Trayvon from screaming and running away, because the cops were on the way.

Zimmerman knew he was toast when the cops showed up after he pulled a gun on a kid.

I've read that it's best not to assume evil intent when massive incompetence can explain the same outcome.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:24 PM

2. Good theory...

I also think it was Zimmerman telling Trayvon to shut up, because he knew the police were on the way and would discover that he'd snuck up on a kid brandishing a gun. I've written in other threads that I think Zimmerman is a narcissist, and they tend to flip roles when re-calling a situation where they were in the wrong. Why would Trayvon tell Zimmerman to shut up? He didn't.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:24 PM

3. Wow, the Lebron James defense

Travyon could have did a patented Lebron James move like this. I think you are on to something.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:34 PM

5. The defense would have loved it if the prosecution had offered that theory

They would have derided it as being speculation and as further reason for the jury to conclude there was reasonable doubt as to what happened. And reasonable doubt is what the defense is looking for.

There is a reason the prosecution relied on evidence not speculation.

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Response to onenote (Reply #5)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:09 AM

14. lol. 'evidence' my ass.

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:39 PM

6. Whats your point.

 

Its a theory, and who knows maybe true. Thnankfully in this country we don't convict people based on theories on forums.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:06 AM

13. because there was no video or witness to the entire altercation...

other than the lying asshole who killed a kid.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:13 AM

16. So you agree that the right decision was made?

 

In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:27 AM

17. No. There's a dead kid and guy with gun who admitted he did it... thats a given.

The only question is how did it happen. If the only witness is the killer then the prosecution has to come up with plausible scenarios which unfortunately they didn't do well. They should have focused on manslaughter then I think we would have had a different outcome.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 21, 2013, 04:30 PM

22. "We" do it all the time in circumstantial evidence cases

Juries vote the way they vote.. sometimes they believe lies..

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:41 PM

7. The hoodie drawstrings were very uneven

and being February, no plush greens - likely pebbles and twigs caused those scrapes.

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Response to Ruby the Liberal (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:44 PM

8. I did not see any of the evidence..or the trial

We were on vacation during the whole thing, and my husband was adamant about no "trial stuff", so I only caught snippets here and there.

I was amazed at all the boo hooing about Z's "grievous" injuries, when this Mom (having seen more than a few teens rough-housing & grabbing clothing) immediately saw the height difference & the clothing grabbing as a very possible nose wound..

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:03 PM

9. Why did the state not present this

 

Cause of events seeing its their responsibility to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. They should have explained GZ injuries and how they got into physical fight. They did none of that at all.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:56 PM

10. Why would the 5'7" person

have even attempted to grab the 5'11" person from behind? To get the upper hand? The gun already gave that to GZ.

I've seen more twists and turns to explain the physical evidence here than was the supposed route of the bullet that killed JFK and wounded John Connelly.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:01 AM

11. Defense always muddies the water

It's their job.. The prosecution dropped the ball by not showing Zimmerman as the liar he is.

When only one person survives any altercation, their words always must be suspect.

When TM was found at the scene, he was just another in a long line of John Doe-dead-Black kids. He was nothing special to the cops or the medical examiner.. They just wanted to wrap things up at the scene ASAP. GZ was not suspicious to them... that's why they did not charge him.

GZ was an overly zealous wannabee whose adrenalin was pumping, and he did not want the "suspect" to get away, but even in the heat of the moment he knew better than to shoot him in the back

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:49 AM

18. The prosecution tried

They ran the Hannity interview, and contrasted it with the story GZ told the police. Yes, there were variations, but they were not enough to cause the physical evidence of GZ's injuries to be doubted. In fact, they let Zimmerman tell his story without having it cross-examined. That was a major mistake, in my opinion.

Physical evidence, plus the testimony of John Good is what made the case impossible for the prosecution to win. I'd guess that the police figured that out soon into the investigation, and that's why there was no arrest made. Zimmerman didn't lawyer up, he talked to them, and that's what gave some credibility to how they interpreted the physical evidence.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 21, 2013, 03:04 PM

21. The prosecution failed beacuse they did not prep their witnesses

I was the "star" witness in an armed robbery, and due to postponements by the defense, we too had almost 18 months.. I met with the prosecutors at least 15 times, and they were very helpful in prepping me for trial. They ran through mock ups, took me to the witness stand and really worked me over to show just how bad it would be..

The guy who pointed a Ruger (whateverthehellthatis) at my head, ended up doing 7-12 years.

NONE of the prosecution witnesses I caught video of on the recent trial were well-prepped.

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Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:10 AM

15. i've seen more slimy attempts to obscure zimmerman's lies

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 06:04 AM

12. very possible.

clear case of manslaughter to me.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 01:48 PM

19. The single most reasonable logical scenario I can imagine

Grabbed his sweatshirt, got the hoodie drawstring, Trayvon swings his right elbow back while saying "Get off of me! Get off of me!" (meaning, "Let Me Go", elbow meets Z's nose, Z falls back onto pavement hitting his head, still holding Trayvon who then falls down on top of him, probably causing him to smack his head again.

Completely plausible. Only wish the fuckin prosecution had made a "cartoon" video animation of that scenario to use in their closing.

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Response to Duer 157099 (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 20, 2013, 04:14 PM

20. I was unable to watch much of the trial (traveling)

and did not know about the uneven drawstrings.. That makes it even more plausible to me, at least..My sons wore hooded sweats and were very conscientious about how the strings were even.

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