Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:17 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

God Damn It! I just listened to the recording of Trayvon screaming "Help", then the gunshot.

God DAMN it, there is no fucking way that Trayvon was an aggressor.

It's heartbreaking, his mother is on the stand and has to identify her son's voice.
You can hear him screaming and then gunfire.
Then silence.

Be warned, the 911 recording begins at about 1:00 into the clip and it is heartbreaking.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trayvon-martins-mother-delivers-emotional-testimony-identifies-sons-screaming-voice-on-911-call/

FUCK!

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101 replies	Author	Time	Post
God Damn It! I just listened to the recording of Trayvon screaming "Help", then the gunshot. (Original post)	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	OP
I can't imagine there's anyone here with any interest in this case	TorchTheWitch	Jul 2013	#1
Au contrar....	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#4
it's horrendous	TorchTheWitch	Jul 2013	#9
I just listened to it for the first time, because of this post.	TeeYiYi	Jul 2013	#10
You need a better imagination.	crim son	Jul 2013	#16
I just listened for the first time.	PufPuf23	Jul 2013	#21
I actually hadn't listened to that tape before.	pnwmom	Jul 2013	#37
I have not listened to the recording or viewed photos.	CottonBear	Jul 2013	#52
I only just learned the time the murder happened. But I can't listen to tape or look at	KittyWampus	Jul 2013	#99
I've never heard it. If you don't like it, I imagine they don't have it	kestrel91316	Jul 2013	#101
Jesus. That is a kid screaming.	CurtEastPoint	Jul 2013	#2
I have not heard it before and I have followed the news.	CurtEastPoint	Jul 2013	#3
Yes, he is. He's screaming his heart out for his very life.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#5
No wonder the defense doesn't want the jury to use their common sense. n/t	chieftain	Jul 2013	#6
Didn't others testify that was Zimmerman screaming?	flvegan	Jul 2013	#7
Testimony from witnesses about what they think they remember hearing is one thing.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#11
If they did, they were lying their asses off	Hugabear	Jul 2013	#12
an entire parade of unbelievable friends and family	TorchTheWitch	Jul 2013	#13
yes, Zimmerman's mom testified that it was George screaming	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#20
I assure you that I'm neither. So what I'm reading is	flvegan	Jul 2013	#36
sure most people are going to deny	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#40
I get your point, but let me ask you this...	DearAbby	Jul 2013	#70
Your question undermines the case of the prosecution.	flvegan	Jul 2013	#87
I believe that scream came from a person who knew he had only seconds to live	DearAbby	Jul 2013	#88
And that is a fair and reasonable opinion to come to.	flvegan	Jul 2013	#91
Are you being sarcastic?	merrily	Jul 2013	#39
see my post above	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#42
I think Zimmerman's mom has the greater incentive.	merrily	Jul 2013	#45
I think they are all lying.	Hassin Bin Sober	Jul 2013	#54
Someone winning a fight who saw a gun pointing at his heart might scream.	merrily	Jul 2013	#66
I don't think T reached for his gun.	Hassin Bin Sober	Jul 2013	#73
It doesn't matter what people thought they saw	bushisanidiot	Jul 2013	#80
For me it was about the body language	laundry_queen	Jul 2013	#57
You have a valid point. It's all about body	LukeFL	Jul 2013	#62
I'm not sure - it was on CNN. nt	laundry_queen	Jul 2013	#86
I try to be objective, but, for my own child, I'd circle wagons all day long.	merrily	Jul 2013	#67
I don't think I would.	laundry_queen	Jul 2013	#85
We're talking life in prison or the death penalty, not an apology.	merrily	Jul 2013	#94
So what?	laundry_queen	Jul 2013	#96
His poor parents.	UtahLib	Jul 2013	#8
Is there any edited version with the phone conversation removed?	HolyMoley	Jul 2013	#14
Both mothers identified it as their childs voice -	lynne	Jul 2013	#15
Agreed	Lurks Often	Jul 2013	#89
After listening to the recording a number of times	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#17
If it was George why would he stop screaming after the shot.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#19
why would he keep screaming	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#22
He still needs help, the police were called and he needed for them to find him.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#24
that's not an urgent need	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#30
Your argument makes sense	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#76
Because Georgie boy said he didn't think he hit him. George is full of it, and a bigoted gun nut.	Hoyt	Jul 2013	#28
Good point. nt.	polly7	Jul 2013	#32
but he also said that	hfojvt	Jul 2013	#33
Whoa, I missed that. If that is true, Zimmerman should get life where Papillon was imprisoned.	Hoyt	Jul 2013	#71
Exactly, Hoyt.	Vox Moi	Jul 2013	#34
A direct, 90 degree hit to the heart from close range and he thought he missed.	bushisanidiot	Jul 2013	#81
I don't buy that argument	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#27
GZ didn't think Trayvon was dead.	moondust	Jul 2013	#31
Who's more likely to stop screaming in the MIDDLE of the scream?	Nevernose	Jul 2013	#41
Insanity or denial.	moondust	Jul 2013	#43
That's my thinking, too.	TroglodyteScholar	Jul 2013	#98
You've bought into lies, pal. Man with gun shoots child and you side with the killer.	MjolnirTime	Jul 2013	#46
Negative	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#53
There is no reliable evidence that trayvon was ever on top of zimmerman	bushisanidiot	Jul 2013	#82
GZ received injuries to the back of his head from somewhere	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#83
Those injuries were minor and could have been self inflicted.	bushisanidiot	Jul 2013	#84
There are few if ever a time in your life when	zeeland	Jul 2013	#25
that's a load of shit.	MjolnirTime	Jul 2013	#44
I think it sounds like GZ	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#56
Is that based on your long-term experience being around George Zimmerman??	MjolnirTime	Jul 2013	#59
GZ has a very subtle hispanic accent in the scream and when he talks	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#61
Riiiiight. nt.	polly7	Jul 2013	#64
Zimmerman: "...that doesn't even sound like me..." was NOT an errant statement. Zimmerman was defend	uponit7771	Jul 2013	#74
People don't know their own voices very well	cpwm17	Jul 2013	#75
Um, did you know that when zimmy first heard that recording, at the police station,	Ecumenist	Jul 2013	#77
Oh and TM's dad STRENUOUSLY disputed the police's statement that he told them it wasn't his son.	Ecumenist	Jul 2013	#78
Even if I didn't recognize the voice as my child's - and I	crim son	Jul 2013	#18
Wow that is the first time I've heard that	ChangeUp106	Jul 2013	#23
I think it's very clearly Trayvon screaming	Just Saying	Jul 2013	#26
From the very first time I heard that 911 call, I thought it was a younger person's voice.	Grammy23	Jul 2013	#29
Well according to a Zim fan here on DU	Kingofalldems	Jul 2013	#35
What I found interesting was at least two witnesses thought the screaming was a boy	Quixote1818	Jul 2013	#38
That useless blob screamed like a boy, or so he says.	tblue	Jul 2013	#49
That is the sound of a scared little kid screaming.	world wide wally	Jul 2013	#47
The courage she showed, with cameras in her face	tblue	Jul 2013	#48
It was noted that one of the jurors shed tears listening to this.	Spitfire of ATJ	Jul 2013	#50
I have heard it but was wondering	SoutherDem	Jul 2013	#51
This is the only known recording:	nyquil_man	Jul 2013	#55
Thanks for that. The voice is certainly in the higher register.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#72
There was analysis done on the 911 call.	nyquil_man	Jul 2013	#79
Yes.	Ruby the Liberal	Jul 2013	#63
The media is saying it was Zimmerman	LukeFL	Jul 2013	#58
I think Zimmerman is in the wrong all the way.	Wash. state Desk Jet	Jul 2013	#60
I don't think the FBI is a liar.	NYC_SKP	Jul 2013	#65
That possibility NYC SKP	Wash. state Desk Jet	Jul 2013	#69
K & R	malaise	Jul 2013	#68
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Jul 2013	#90
Horseshit.	Robb	Jul 2013	#92
Hope.	LWolf	Jul 2013	#93
And the Prosecution team was allowing that to go on like that.	Quantess	Jul 2013	#95
Or something.	LWolf	Jul 2013	#100
sorry you had to live it	mstinamotorcity2	Jul 2013	#97

Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:21 PM

TorchTheWitch (11,065 posts)

1. I can't imagine there's anyone here with any interest in this case

that has not listened to this tape numerous times. Good grief, it was played during trial a dozen or more times.

Reply to this post

Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:23 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

4. Au contrar....

Many people live busy lives with jobs and families and may not have had the chance to sit still long enough to have heard that clip.

Obviously, I hadn't heard it until this morning, despite having seen some parts of the trial.

In any event, it's pretty shocking, isn't it?

Reply to this post

Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:40 PM

TorchTheWitch (11,065 posts)

9. it's horrendous

Even when I first heard it when it came out in the media long before the trial it made my skin crawl. God almighty, I can't even imagine his parents having listened to that. To have to listen to their kid's own screams and the gunshot that ended his life. Ugh.

Despite the obvious that it had to be Martin screaming simply because of the abrupt end of the screams with the gunshot it still sounds like a child's voice especially after hearing what Zimmerman's voice is like. How such a parade of Zimmerman's friends and relatives could have gotten on that stand and lied with a straight face that the screaming was George is beyond me. That's the voice of a youngster. Had I not known the characters in the story and just heard the tape I would even have thought the voice was that of a female. It's that much not like a grown man's voice even a grown man in terror.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:40 PM

TeeYiYi (8,028 posts)

10. I just listened to it for the first time, because of this post.

Heartbreaking.

TYY

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:51 PM

crim son (27,383 posts)

16. You need a better imagination.

I've avoided listening to it until now.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:16 PM

PufPuf23 (7,685 posts)

21. I just listened for the first time.

I don't watch TV and have been avoiding the Zimmerman trial threads.

Zimmerman murdered a child.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:22 PM

pnwmom (106,137 posts)

37. I actually hadn't listened to that tape before.

I'm interested in the case but have only listened to bits of the trial.

As far as I'm concerned, Zimmerman is guilty, period -- because he left his vehicle and continued to follow Trayvon. Everything that happened afterwards is on him, whatever the jury decides.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:30 PM

CottonBear (20,980 posts)

52. I have not listened to the recording or viewed photos.

I have a son. I am totally consumed with raising him and my work. I cannot imagine the pain and grief of Trayvon's parents. It is so awful to even consider. I cannot bring myself to view or listen.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:24 PM

KittyWampus (55,894 posts)

99. I only just learned the time the murder happened. But I can't listen to tape or look at

photo from crime scene.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:03 PM

kestrel91316 (51,666 posts)

101. I've never heard it. If you don't like it, I imagine they don't have it

over on FR.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:22 PM

CurtEastPoint (16,154 posts)

2. Jesus. That is a kid screaming.

Reply to this post

Response to CurtEastPoint (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:22 PM

CurtEastPoint (16,154 posts)

3. I have not heard it before and I have followed the news.

Reply to this post

Response to CurtEastPoint (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:26 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

5. Yes, he is. He's screaming his heart out for his very life.

I'm more sad and pissed than ever.

Fuck.

Reply to this post

Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:28 PM

chieftain (3,222 posts)

6. No wonder the defense doesn't want the jury to use their common sense. n/t

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:34 PM

flvegan (64,108 posts)

7. Didn't others testify that was Zimmerman screaming?

I didn't listen to the recording, and have no interest in doing so. I wasn't there, and likely could never be 100% positive one way or another, but I thought I had either read here or heard on the local news that there was contradictory testimony.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:42 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

11. Testimony from witnesses about what they think they remember hearing is one thing.

An actual audio tape of a caller reporting a disturbance with Zimmerman and Trayvon right outside her window...

Well, a recording of Trayvon's actual cries for help and then "bang"...

That's significantly more reliable evidence.

And sad as hell.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:43 PM

Hugabear (10,340 posts)

12. If they did, they were lying their asses off

Quite obvious that it wasn't Zimmerman

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Response to flvegan (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:44 PM

TorchTheWitch (11,065 posts)

13. an entire parade of unbelievable friends and family

Way too coached and not a one of them ever heard Zimmerman scream in pain or terror in their lives. They jurors yawned their way through all of that.

Though they had to have been curious as to why Zimmerman's wife didn't ever get on the stand especially with this part. But they don't know that his wife was charged with perjury in this case, so of course the defense wouldn't want her anywhere near the stand. They had to be wondering about that though.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:14 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

20. yes, Zimmerman's mom testified that it was George screaming

and you know that a mother would recognize her son's voice.

Unless you are a sexist pig. Or a racist against hispanics.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:17 PM

flvegan (64,108 posts)

36. I assure you that I'm neither. So what I'm reading is

that (from the responses to my original question) 1. a recording was made of someone screaming; 2. that recording was played in court; 3. someone/ones testified that they believed those screams to be Trayvon, and one of them was his mother; 4. someone/ones testified that they believed those screams to be Zimmerman, and one of them was his mother.

That evidence seems inconclusive at best.

*edited for spelling.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:44 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

40. sure most people are going to deny

and I was not really making such an accusation.

Only repeating what was said to me when I said I was not convinced by the testimony of Trayvon's mom. I was told that was clear evidence I was either a sexist pig or a racist or both and that it was UNDENIABLE that a mother would recognize her child's voice.

Clearly all the bile that was thrown at me for doubting Trayvon's mom should now be thrown at those who doubt Zimmerman's mom. It's only fair.

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Response to flvegan (Reply #36)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:34 PM

DearAbby (12,461 posts)

70. I get your point, but let me ask you this...

Mr O Mara asked Ms Fulton what if the screams were not those of Trayvon's, that would mean you would have to accept the fact your son is responsible for his own death.

the same can be said of Zimmerman's mother. So yes, the evidence is inconclusive. What isnt is the primal fear in that scream..that is the scream of someone who only had seconds to live...who died just seconds later? It tears through us in a primal instinct way. You dont have to be a mother, or even related, you know instinctively. It's part of that Common sense the Defense wants us to avoid. and o yeah, think Trayvon big and scary.

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #70)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:58 PM

flvegan (64,108 posts)

87. Your question undermines the case of the prosecution.

If we universally accept that those screams were made by someone "who only had seconds to live" and we can't disprove that they weren't Zimmerman's screams, and the possibility exists that those were his screams, the under that possibility he has to be found not guilty. If those were his screams, and he (felt he) "only had seconds to live" then under Florida law, the shooting was justified.

Florida is far from perfect, I know.

The question Mr O Mara asked was likely intended to lead the jury. Criminal defense 101. I don't know about the "big and scary" part as I haven't been watching, but that seems like more CD101.

Reply to this post

Response to flvegan (Reply #87)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:33 PM

DearAbby (12,461 posts)

88. I believe that scream came from a person who knew he had only seconds to live

I believe the altercation John Good witnessed was Trayvon trying to prevent Zimmerman from getting his gun, or blocking a clear shot...would explain the downward motions Trayvon was observed as doing. I don't feel a person has to recognize the voice...we already know who it was. It was a person who lost the fight for control and knows he only has seconds to live.

We don't know when Zimmerman got his bloodied nose, it could have happened at anytime between the start of the confrontation to the gunshot. We only have Zimmerman's version. I would assume Trayvon put up a fight, he was in fear of great bodily harm. I would not expect to hear that type of primal scream from someone who knew he had an ace in the hole...a gun on his right hip. Using common sense, something the defense wanted people to avoid...and oh yeah, think Trayvon big and scary.

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Response to DearAbby (Reply #88)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:51 PM

flvegan (64,108 posts)

91. And that is a fair and reasonable opinion to come to.

And I hope that if true, the jury comes to that conclusion.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:44 PM

merrily (45,251 posts)

39. Are you being sarcastic?

Martin's mother testified it was her son's voice, so clearly one of them has to be wrong.

Your statement "and you know that a mother would recognize her son's voice" can't be right as to both moms.

Both mothers have incentive to be mistaken, but Zimmerman's mother has a greater incentive to want that voice to be her son's.

"Unless you are a sexist pig. Or a racist against hispanics."

And if you assume that Martin's mother is the one who is mistaken about her son's voice, what would that make you, under your own standards?

I think it's perfectly possible to have a reasonable difference of opinion about this case without being a bigot of any kind.

Reply to this post

Response to merrily (Reply #39)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:51 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

42. see my post above

I was not being serious, only repeating some of the arguments made to me when I doubted Trayvon's mom.

Greater incentive? Seems to me that Trayvon's mom wants George to goto jail to get "justice for Trayvon" as George's mom wants to keep her son out of jail. Especially if she is anything like the Zimmerman detractors here. They seem far more fired up with hate than the Zimmerman defenders are.

Of course, everybody thinks the rocks thrown by their own side are mere marshmallows, because, after all, they don't hit me. Whereas clearly the other side if flinging very sharp stones with great force.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:05 PM

merrily (45,251 posts)

45. I think Zimmerman's mom has the greater incentive.

Sure, Martin's mom wants to see her son's killer punished.

But Zimmerman's mom is trying to prevent her son from going to prison for the rest of his life. If it were my child--and I probably should not admit it--I would not only want to recognize that voice; I would lie about it, even if I knew it was not my child's. Not for anyone else, but my child, yes. That's why the jury is gong to give very little weight to either mother's testimony about the voice. -

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Response to merrily (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:36 PM

Hassin Bin Sober (25,022 posts)

54. I think they are all lying.

I don't think anyone can make out that voice.

The voice identification testimony is totally unreliable.

If I were a juror, I would have a hard time getting past the eye witness that saw Treyvon on top punching Zimmerman while another 911 caller's phone was picking up SOMEONE screaming bloody murder immediately prior to the gunshot.

The person on their back getting punched is the person screaming for help.

I've never seen or heard of any scream like that by someone who was winning a fight. Those were screams of terror. Screaming like a stuck pig, as my father used to say.

I think Z was in fear for his life over a situation he probably started. And by situation, I mean the physical confrontation (not the following).

I think Z is PROBABLY guilty of manslaughter.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #54)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:24 PM

merrily (45,251 posts)

66. Someone winning a fight who saw a gun pointing at his heart might scream.

Zimmerman said Trayvon reached for the gun as Zimmerman went for it, so Zimmerman shot Trayyvon.

However, the holster was on Zimmerman's back and Zimmerman was supposedly lying on the ground on his back when he reached under his own body to get the gun. So, how did Trayyvon see the gun and reach for it?

Reply to this post

Response to merrily (Reply #66)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:53 PM

Hassin Bin Sober (25,022 posts)

73. I don't think T reached for his gun.

I think Z lied about that and probably the "you are going to die" statement.

Those were the screams of someone getting their ass kicked.

I have had a gun pointed at me once and I was with someone one who pointed a gun at someone once. Both times the gun created the sphincter factor and everybody shut up. I just don't see someone screaming for 40 seconds.

I can see someone screaming WHILE being shot. But not for 40 seconds and definitely not WHILE pummeling someone with a gun pointing at them. That makes zero sense to me.

John Goode saw Trayvon on top beating Z. Simultaneously the neighbor was recording Z screaming. Goode steps inside and the gun goes off right before his call.

Z stops screaming because the person pummeling him just keeled over.

Z starts concocting a story to cover his own ass PROBABLY because he knows he started the confrontation and he knows he is in trouble unless he shows he was the attacked person.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #73)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:37 PM

bushisanidiot (8,064 posts)

80. It doesn't matter what people thought they saw

As far as who was on top or bottom. DNA evidence proves trayvon never touched zimmerman.
There was NO zimmerman DNA on the victims body.

There was NO DNA of zimmerman underneath the victims fingernails.

The victims back was wet and covered with grass.

The victims pant knees did not have stains on them that would have been consistent with zimmermans story. Any stains at all are very faint and likely occurred because zimmerman put
The victim face down after he murdered him.

Zimmerman would not have had cut at the top of his head if his story were true.
Injuries to zimmermans head would have been at the base of his head only
And he likely would have had a concusion from having his head slammed 30 times against the concrete. Zimmermans own doctor said his injuries were minor. This is not consistent with zimmermans story.

Zimmerman gave a clear, 90 degree shot into trayvons heart.
If trayvon was hitting him, it wouldnt have been such a clean and clear a
Shot.

Zimmerman and trayvons bodies would have been in the way and prevented zimmerman from pulling a gun from the back of his pants. Zimmerman as laying on his own gun according to his recorded testimony.

The obvious scenario is that zimmerman had his gun pulled when he was chasing his victim. Once trayvon confronted zimmerman or zimmerman confronted trayvon, zimmerman likely tried to apprehend the victim (because zimmerman thought his gun was his badge) which led to struggle which is why we heard trayvon screaming and trying to get away from the guy with the gun.

There is no DNA evidence of zimmerman on trayvon, because trayvon never touched zimmermans skin. My guess is that trayvon was facing zimmerman but probably trying to back away, probably a few feet away which is why it was such a direct shot to the heart. Zimmerman was probably worried about shooting him from farther away and missing. He wanted to make sure he could kill him with one bullet and he KNEW there were no witnesses.

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Response to merrily (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:37 PM

laundry_queen (8,646 posts)

57. For me it was about the body language

When the tape is played for Trayvon's mom, she is visibly disturbed and is fidgiting, trying to hold back tears. You can tell she is overwhelmed with emotion but is doing her damndest to hold it all in. When GZ's mom listens, she has a poker face, then in a emotionless voice dismissively waves her hand as she says it's her son's voice. Her body language does not match her words, imo.

I definitely see GZ's mom having a greater incentive here - if past stories are correct it's a family that is expert at circling the wagons. They are a dysfunctional family, and as such must keep up the illusion of having a great family (having grown up in an extremely dysfunctional family, it's the image that is THE most important thing on earth. It's imperative that the 'image' of a great family gets kept up, at ALL costs). They cannot let GZ pay for his actions, because it would reflect badly on THEM. So they must cover up at ALL costs. Therefore, in their mind, it's TM's fault and GZ should go free. Once they cement it in their brain how they believe the story went, you won't be able to change their minds with any amount of facts (yeah, kind of like freepers). This is why I see it as GZ's family having a bigger incentive - they are fighting for their family image here. And only those who have grown up in such dysfunction can understand how these people will fight for the image as if it's their life at stake.

Reply to this post

Response to laundry_queen (Reply #57)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:55 PM

LukeFL (594 posts)

62. You have a valid point. It's all about body

Language. Where can I see GZ mothers listening to the tape?

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Response to LukeFL (Reply #62)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:27 PM

laundry_queen (8,646 posts)

86. I'm not sure - it was on CNN. nt

Reply to this post

Response to laundry_queen (Reply #57)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:26 PM

merrily (45,251 posts)

67. I try to be objective, but, for my own child, I'd circle wagons all day long.

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Response to merrily (Reply #67)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:26 PM

laundry_queen (8,646 posts)

85. I don't think I would.

But I supposed it would depend on what I thought happened. I tend not to be the type of parent that believes their child is golden. In fact, my teen got in a huge facebook fight with her friends and tried to make it sound like it was all their fault and that she was being bullied. I read all of the facebook correspondence and it was clear to me my daughter was actually the one who initiated the fight with her extremely rude and insulting message. So I made her apologize to everyone (they are all best friends now). I'd like to think I would look at it objectively. I was married to a guy whose parents thought sun shone out of his ass and it did him no favors. In fact, he reminds me a lot of GZ. He always thinks his illegal behavior is justified and always plays the victim.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #85)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 07:51 AM

merrily (45,251 posts)

94. We're talking life in prison or the death penalty, not an apology.

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Response to merrily (Reply #94)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 12:49 PM

laundry_queen (8,646 posts)

96. So what?

parents that circle the wagons when their child fucking SHOT someone ARE the fucking problem. If my child shot someone and ended up with life in prison, my reaction would be, then DONT' FUCKING SHOOT SOMEONE. Shit, I hate when parents protect their 'precious angels' who commit crimes. I would 'support' my child through the child, but there's no fucking way I'd LIE on the stand about it. That's fucked up, sorry to say.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:37 PM

UtahLib (3,169 posts)

8. His poor parents.

They will never be able to wipe the terrified last moments of their child from their minds.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:46 PM

HolyMoley (240 posts)

14. Is there any edited version with the phone conversation removed?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:49 PM

lynne (3,118 posts)

15. Both mothers identified it as their childs voice -

- were I on the jury, I would not consider the tape as evidence at all.

I have a 21 yr. old son and there are times I can't identify who has answered the phone when I call him. Sometimes I think it's his dad. He sounds different on the cell phone than he does on the house phone.

This tape is of a recorded phone call. This sound has gone through two different electronic devices - the phone and the recording equipment. Not to mention that the screams aren't in a normal tone that a person uses every day - it's under extreme distress. I think it would be almost impossible to positively identify who produced the screams.

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Response to lynne (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:47 PM

Lurks Often (5,455 posts)

89. Agreed

Both sides had every reason to believe it was their relative or friend screaming, because what is the alternative if it was NOT their relative or friend screaming?

The alternative is that their relative or friend was in the process of committing a felony and there are damn few people, ESPECIALLY parents that will testify, consciously or sub-consciously, in court to that.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:52 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

17. After listening to the recording a number of times

the screams seem clearly to be GM's voice. That's how I hear it. TM's father didn't think it really sounded like TM either. When in doubt, the jury has to favor the defendent. That is how we should judge the verdict.

By GZ's own admission, GZ didn't explain to TM why he was following him in the dark. A normal person would be highly threatened by GZ's behavior. Of course, GZ had a gun and that made him feel invincible.

So, based on the evidence, and putting the conflict in the best light for GZ, GZ clearly still had much responsibility for TM's death.

Before TM was shot, TM was on top hitting GZ. That's what the evidence shows. GZ then shot TM. What exactly happen before TM got on top is not knowable, so the jury must favor the scenario most favorable to GZ.

In a civilized world, what GZ did, even without the killing, would be considered unlawful. But with the gun nuts in charge of our laws, civilians can freely walk around neighborhoods armed. On top of this, GZ intimidated TM without making any effort to put him at ease and then killed him when things went south. Is that considered manslaughter according to the law? I think so.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:10 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

19. If it was George why would he stop screaming after the shot.

Under most circumstances like this, the person calling for help would continue to want someone to come, for the police to find where he is.

I don't buy it. I think it was Trayvon.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:18 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

22. why would he keep screaming

if nobody's hitting him any more?

He no longer needs help, because he helped himself.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:23 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

24. He still needs help, the police were called and he needed for them to find him.

Alternatively, he was in shock after the gunshot and fell silent, but I kinda doubt it as I think it was Trayvon.

In any event, a conviction is in order.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:51 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

30. that's not an urgent need

If he's yelling for help because he's being pounded on, then when the pounding stops, logically he no longer needs help. But if, as even the prosecution has admitted, Trayvon was on top in this struggle, why would HE be yelling for help?

Help, help, this guy is hitting my fists with his face! Help. Help. I am on top of this guy and I can't get up. Help.

Was there a struggle for control of the gun? One that Trayvon lost after twenty seconds? (the approximate duration of the screaming). Why would you waste your breath in such a life or death struggle? But if you are being hit, that is not a life or death struggle - just a really bad place to be.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #30)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:17 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

76. Your argument makes sense

The witness with by far the best view also thought it was Zimmerman on the bottom screaming.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:32 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

28. Because Georgie boy said he didn't think he hit him. George is full of it, and a bigoted gun nut.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:52 PM

polly7 (20,582 posts)

32. Good point. nt.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:53 PM

hfojvt (37,573 posts)

33. but he also said that

he thought Trayvon was saying basically "whoa, you've got a gun. I give up." Which would also mean he no longer needed help.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #33)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:37 PM

Hoyt (54,770 posts)

71. Whoa, I missed that. If that is true, Zimmerman should get life where Papillon was imprisoned.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #28)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:06 PM

Vox Moi (546 posts)

34. Exactly, Hoyt.

Zimmerman said he didn't think he hit him. If that is true then:
They should have still been struggling and Martin was still 'reaching for the gun.' Nothing had changed. Why stop screaming?
In fact, with a missed shot, the struggle might have intensified.
More than that, what in hell made George think he had missed him? Isn't it sort of obvious if you shoot someone in the heart?
Why didn't George shoot again if he thought he had no other choice but to shoot and he had missed on the first try.
Zimmerman's story is a story.

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Response to Vox Moi (Reply #34)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:43 PM

bushisanidiot (8,064 posts)

81. A direct, 90 degree hit to the heart from close range and he thought he missed.

George zimmermans lies are OBVIOUS.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:31 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

27. I don't buy that argument

Gunfire would change GZ's mindset at that moment and it would also be natural to stop screaming after hitting TM. Regardless, by the sound of the voice and subtle accent, I think it was GZ screaming.

I think it would be more likely that the person on the bottom, as the evidence shows GZ was, would be more likely to scream; though that really is only conjecture.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:51 PM

moondust (18,271 posts)

31. GZ didn't think Trayvon was dead.

And therefore he still needed help and police.

He says that after the shot he pushed Trayvon off, got on Trayvon's back and spread his arms out away from his body in case he had a weapon. Even later at the police station he claimed he didn't know Trayvon was dead.

There was no reason for GZ to stop screaming abruptly/immediately when the shot was fired. No, that gunshot silenced somebody and it wasn't George Zimmerman.

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Response to moondust (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:50 PM

Nevernose (13,081 posts)

41. Who's more likely to stop screaming in the MIDDLE of the scream?

The boy with a hollow point bullet to the heart and lungs fired from a point blank range, or the guy who pulled the trigger?

Are the people arguing that it was the shooter who stopped screaming and not the victim purposely obtuse? Is this some kind of insanity?

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #41)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:59 PM

moondust (18,271 posts)

43. Insanity or denial.

I'm not sure which.

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Response to Nevernose (Reply #41)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 01:04 PM

TroglodyteScholar (5,477 posts)

98. That's my thinking, too.

I just don't get it.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:05 PM

MjolnirTime (1,800 posts)

46. You've bought into lies, pal. Man with gun shoots child and you side with the killer.

Pretty low.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #46)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:32 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

53. Negative

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023242415#post17

Also, nothing in my comment #27 shows me siding with GZ.

I think it was manslaughter, as I wrote above. Anything worse is impossible to prove, if I understand the law correctly. The defendant gets the benefit of the doubt in our legal system.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:47 PM

bushisanidiot (8,064 posts)

82. There is no reliable evidence that trayvon was ever on top of zimmerman

DNA evidence shows that trayvon never came into contact with zimmermans skin.
Trayvon would have had some of zimmermans blood, sweat or skin scraping under his nails or at least on his hands. No such DNA evidence was found.

What two or three people thought they saw in the dark, from a distance, was not what happened according to ACTUAL evidence.

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Response to bushisanidiot (Reply #82)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:00 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

83. GZ received injuries to the back of his head from somewhere

and the witness with by far the best view put GZ on the bottom. The prosecution seems to have almost conceded that GZ was on the bottom.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #83)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 06:08 PM

bushisanidiot (8,064 posts)

84. Those injuries were minor and could have been self inflicted.

He could have given anyone $20 to punch him in the nose and that person would have zimmermans DNA on his hands via zimmermans blood and sweat. But they screwed up because that injury near the top of zs head are not in the right spot to it his story.

30 slams to the head from concrete would produce possible skull fracture at base of head, possible memory loss, bumps and bruises at base of head, not necessarily producing open wound.

Small cut near top of head is a dead give away that z lied about his head being slammed against concrete.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:25 PM

zeeland (247 posts)

25. There are few if ever a time in your life when

you will hear your child scream from his soul for his life. Add that to the fact most
parents are in shock and DENIAL for a period after their child's death. I more than
understand why Trayvon's father did not identify the voice being Trayvon's a
day or two after his death.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:04 PM

MjolnirTime (1,800 posts)

44. that's a load of shit.

You don't have to scream for help when you have a gun.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #44)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:37 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

56. I think it sounds like GZ

The closest witness thought it was GZ screaming. Your assumption isn't necessarily correct.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #56)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:42 PM

MjolnirTime (1,800 posts)

59. Is that based on your long-term experience being around George Zimmerman??

You think it sounds like him??

That's hilarious.

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Response to MjolnirTime (Reply #59)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:49 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

61. GZ has a very subtle hispanic accent in the scream and when he talks

GZ must have picked it up from his mother. He does sound much more southern than hispanic.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #61)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:07 PM

polly7 (20,582 posts)

64. Riiiiight. nt.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:59 PM

uponit7771 (85,320 posts)

74. Zimmerman: "...that doesn't even sound like me..." was NOT an errant statement. Zimmerman was defend

...defending himself against claims that he lied about bein smothered by TM

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #74)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:13 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

75. People don't know their own voices very well

I don't like hearing my own voice because it creeps me out hearing the strange voice.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:22 PM

Ecumenist (6,086 posts)

77. Um, did you know that when zimmy first heard that recording, at the police station,

he said that it didn't sound like him. HE ACTUALLY TOLD POLICE THAT IT WASN'T HIM! REALLY? You actually believe it's zimpy? If it was, why would to the screaming STOP, (on a dime) with the gunshot? Does that make sense to you? He was screaming though he had a LOADED gun and as soon as he shot that baby, his screams ABRUPTLY halted....with not so much as a whimper IMMEDIATELY after the gunshot? NOPE!

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:25 PM

Ecumenist (6,086 posts)

78. Oh and TM's dad STRENUOUSLY disputed the police's statement that he told them it wasn't his son.

He said that after listening to the tape, he told tham he wasn't sure. NOT that it WASN'T Trayvon and based on that city's LEO history, I BELIEVE HIM.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 12:54 PM

crim son (27,383 posts)

18. Even if I didn't recognize the voice as my child's - and I

truly believe I would - the silence following the gunshot would tell me everything I need to know. Horrible.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:18 PM

ChangeUp106 (549 posts)

23. Wow that is the first time I've heard that

That is no doubt Trayvon. It sounds like a kid.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:30 PM

Just Saying (1,799 posts)

26. I think it's very clearly Trayvon screaming

Because the voice is high like a kid, because it cuts off when he is shot and because it's logical and Zimmerman's story just isn't.

You can hear Trayvon's voice here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/07/trayvon-martin-voice-audio-abc_n_3403994.html

Justice for Trayvon

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 01:39 PM

Grammy23 (5,686 posts)

29. From the very first time I heard that 911 call, I thought it was a younger person's voice.

It never sounded like an adult screaming to me. It is bone chilling to hear the screams and then the abrupt end when the gun shot is heard.

I know Zimmerman's family and friends want to hear his voice and may, indeed, be influenced by that desire for it to be HIM screaming for help. But it sounds like a kid yelling for help and if Trayvon was as frightened as he probably was, then it HAD to be him calling (crying really!!) for help.

God help them all (the jury) to use some common sense in who was calling and crying out for help and whose voice was silenced by a bullet to the heart.

No winners when this is over. Lives destroyed. Families living with tragedy and loss forever. Even Zimmerman's life (convicted or acquitted) never the same. What a sad thing.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:15 PM

Kingofalldems (35,465 posts)

35. Well according to a Zim fan here on DU

we base everything on emotion in this case and by law Zimmy should be acquitted. And if he is found guilty the jury must have decided on emotion also. I read it here this morning.

http://demu.gr/10023241624#post28

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 02:39 PM

Quixote1818 (26,792 posts)

38. What I found interesting was at least two witnesses thought the screaming was a boy

Those with no horse in this show. Yes some said Zimmerman called for help early on but that it was a "boy" screaming at the end.

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Response to Quixote1818 (Reply #38)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:08 PM

tblue (16,350 posts)

49. That useless blob screamed like a boy, or so he says.

My gosh, I hope he's in prison real soon.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:06 PM

world wide wally (20,974 posts)

47. That is the sound of a scared little kid screaming.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:07 PM

tblue (16,350 posts)

48. The courage she showed, with cameras in her face

while she listened to that. Oh I just want to hold her and cry with her. As a parent, I feel I am her. She's been through enough. Justice for Trayvon and his grieving family!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:15 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (32,723 posts)

50. It was noted that one of the jurors shed tears listening to this.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:28 PM

SoutherDem (2,307 posts)

51. I have heard it but was wondering

we know how the screams sounded, as one pointed out recorded over a phone then recorded and replayed. We have heard what GZ sounds like. Are there any recordings of TM?

Although, I have heard him called a child, kid and boy several times, 17 year old young men's voices have usually changed to the point of sounding like an adult.

I can't say who was screaming. I don't know how TM sounded. Still might not if I did know how TM sounded. But, without a comparison I don't see how anyone could in good conscience say they know.

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Response to SoutherDem (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:36 PM

nyquil_man (1,443 posts)

55. This is the only known recording:

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Response to nyquil_man (Reply #55)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:43 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

72. Thanks for that. The voice is certainly in the higher register.

And consistent with the screams for help heard in the recording.

I'll bet that good forensics working with this and with samples from Zimmerman could nail down the voice on the 911 call.

We'll never know, though.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #72)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 05:34 PM

nyquil_man (1,443 posts)

79. There was analysis done on the 911 call.

The judge ruled it inadmissible.

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Response to SoutherDem (Reply #51)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:56 PM

Ruby the Liberal (26,144 posts)

63. Yes.

Here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/07/trayvon-martin-voice-audio-abc_n_3403994.html

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:38 PM

LukeFL (594 posts)

58. The media is saying it was Zimmerman

Crying for help!!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 03:44 PM

Wash. state Desk Jet (3,426 posts)

60. I think Zimmerman is in the wrong all the way.

however the law is what it is.Are you saying that you think the FBI specialists who testified that there is no way to tell who's voice is yelling for help and that all other opinions to the contrary are based on junk science-are you saying the FBI specialist is a lier or misrepresented science ?

Both the prosecution and the defense put on good cases and hope for justice is all we have. It is in fact in the hands of the jury now. We know in logic that if Zimmerman had not been armed with that weapon,he most likely will have avoided a confrontation by every and all means.Or he will have approached Martin in a civil manor by identifying himself as a neighborhood watch and concerned resident.

Frankly I don't think the jury agrees with you and disagrees with the science.
I trust the jury will resolve the issue according to the evidence presented.
We hope justice will be served.

If Zimmerman is not found guilty,than we must except the juries findings based on evidence and facts .
Losing faith in the system of law is the same as coming to believe there is no hope.

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Response to Wash. state Desk Jet (Reply #60)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:11 PM

NYC_SKP (68,644 posts)

65. I don't think the FBI is a liar.

I think they are testifying to what they believe is good versus bad science, but that doesn't make them right.

Possibly, a mother's ability to recognize a child's voice is also a scientifically sound reality.

Of course, Zimmerman's mom also testified the same way.

We may never know, but I'll bet that if we had samples of TM's voice that science could match up the recording or exclude it as belonging to one or the other, TM or GZ.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #65)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:34 PM

Wash. state Desk Jet (3,426 posts)

69. That possibility NYC SKP

was raised in the court room by an expert in that particular field ,however it remained a possibility. The fact that both Travon Martin's mother and Zimmerman's mother both testified that they believe the voice on the recording is their son's mutes that possibility as a matter of law as to which voice it actually is.

As you say we may never really know for sure.
What we do know is that a young man was killed and it shouldn't have happened.
It's about guns.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 04:29 PM

malaise (244,613 posts)

68. K & R

Fugg Zimmerman

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Name removed Message auto-removed

Response to Name removed (Reply #90)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:53 PM

Robb (39,665 posts)

92. Horseshit.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Original post)

Sat Jul 13, 2013, 08:53 PM

LWolf (46,179 posts)

93. Hope.

Asking the mom if she "hoped" it was her son screaming? Then if she "hoped" getting shot wasn't his fault???

She's doing a better job than I. I would have been out of that chair and in his face.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #93)

Sun Jul 14, 2013, 08:09 AM

Quantess (27,630 posts)