Texas Teacher Suspended for 'Go Back to Mexico' Comment

[Newsjock]

Source: KDFW-TV

A two-time “Teacher of the Year” in Arlington is now fighting to keep her job after allegedly telling a Hispanic student to “Go back to Mexico.”

Barnett Junior High School math teacher Shirley Bunn has 24 years of teaching experience. But her career could end with what she called a moment of frustration.

... According to public documents, a student who had a history of being disruptive repeatedly asked his teacher for a form printed in Spanish by saying, “I’m Mexican. I’m Mexican.”

The documents said Bunn tried to tell him that he could get the forms in the office but he continued to argue with her and repeat, “I’m Mexican.” In response, Bunn blurted out “(Then) go back to Mexico.”

Read more: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/education/teacher-suspended-for-'go-back-to-mexico'-comment-021612

Caution: The reader comments at the link are not pleasant.

[LeftinOH]

1. Having read the article, I'm siding with the teacher on this one;

it looks like the kid was being difficult -as is often the case with teenagers.

[EFerrari]

7. If you can't deal with difficult kids without racism, don't teach school in Texas. n/t

[Baby Bear]

28. We should be grateful

That anyone is willing to teach school in Texas.

It is a thankless job.

[EFerrari]

29. And taking that out on kids is wrong. n/t

[Posteritatis]

59. Yep. God knows why this is so difficult for some people to grasp. (nt)

[arely staircase]

74. hey efarrari

as a teacher and union member (aft building rep for my campus) and a latina, im not going to jump to conclusions and declare this teacher a racist and unfit for the classroom nor will i defend her. i think what she said was very unprofessional and extremely insensitive, and she should be reprimanded somehow. however whatever action management takes should be done within the context of her career - if it is isolated and contrary to the work she has done over the years, i would oppose her dismissal. however, if it the last in a long string of similar statements, well, she is on her own.

some kids try very hard to push teachers' buttons, she shouldn't have taken the bait. i am extremely sensitive to comments like "go back to mexico" but the facts of this episode do seem to indicate that it was said in the most benign way possible - though she should at least be reprimanded. and call me naive, but maybe it could be a teachable moment.

and you are right about the poster who compared it to "go back to francê" it is different and one need apply nothing more than common sense to tell the difference. however, in the heat of the moment the teacher may have said it with no more bigotry than had france been the country in question. as a latina this bothers me, as a union member - i insist the teacher be given the benefit of whatever doubt.

'rely

[EFerrari]

77. I said something similar in #27.

I have no business calling for her head, I don't even know her. But it bothers me that people leap to blame the kid and to dismiss her gesture as unimportant.

[hermily]

159. Main focus missed

....I know!!! although there are some exceptions included in this forum..... sadly, the majority of comments focus on the kid instead of the poor teacher's ethics. All teachers are or should always thrive to be good models inside the classroom regardless... . Thanks for sharing.

[TeeYiYi]

113. I love this reply...

Thank you, arely staircase, for a reasoned and well considered post.

TYY

[Yo_Mama]

34. I'm not sure this was racism

from the article:

An independent hearing examiner has recommended that the district reinstate Bunn. In his opinion he wrote the district failed to provide sufficient grounds to terminate her. He also cited her student approval, excellent appraisals, two “Teacher of the Year” awards and volunteer efforts with a Hispanic heritage organization.

Would a teacher who just doesn't like Hispanics volunteer with a Hispanic heritage organization?

Maybe it was a purely contextual slapdown out of temper, probably because the teacher was struggling to get through everything she had to do during class and the kid was slowing her down by demanding the Spanish-language form then. A better way would have been to tell the student to see her after class. Doesn't the district provide the forms? I assume the forms they provide are the ones she was handing out, so you can't blame her if they weren't dual language.

If she's not normally having temper tantrums in class, and if her past behavior hasn't shown any pattern of discrimination against Hispanics, than this probably wasn't any indication of racism at all.

I don't think this response was even NEAR appropriate, and I think she should be reprimanded. I'm not surprised that anyone would take it as being an indication of anger or dislike of immigrants.

Termination? I don't think the union rep's claim that the school board's action was excessive is all that well grounded. After all, "Go back to Mexico" (or "Go back to any country&quot is hardly something that should be said in a school system to any student in any circumstance. To me it raises judgment questions about that teacher even if it doesn't cause me to necessarily believe that she is prejudiced against Hispanic students.

On the other hand, maybe this was the worst day in her teaching life, and maybe the net effect of this action would be to removed a dedicated and highly skilled teacher from the school system. I kind of suspect that there is more to this story than we're being told.

[MrBig]

43. A solid assessment n/t

[EFerrari]

44. It's probably the oldest nativist slam in this part of the country.

And not her first.

[Kellerfeller]

57. Mexican is not a race

The student did not mention a race.

The teacher did not mention a race.

So why are you?

[EFerrari]

65. Nativism is a form of racism, yes. n/t

[Kellerfeller]

110. Only if you completely redefine the word

and make up your own definition.

The Irish faced nativism from many white americans. Was that racism?

[EFerrari]

112. Of course it was. I don't see your problem.

The Kennedys faced a ton of it as did everyone in their generation who was trying to break out into mainstream politics.

Btw, when the "New" world was being discovered and explored, native Americans were drawn by British cartographers as "wild Irishmen" and the Irish were drawn as black Africans. The history of racism against the Irish is older than this country is.

[Major Nikon]

132. Nice job of splitting hairs

The term is commonly used negatively and is usually associated with race-based prejudice, violence, dislike, discrimination, or oppression, the term can also have varying and contested definitions.

Legal

The UN does not define "racism", however it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[14]

This definition does not make any difference between discrimination based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the two remains debatable among anthropologists.[15] Similarly, in British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Definitions

This is hardly inventing new definitions and at best is tangential to any meaningful substantive discussion on the original topic. So if you want to flaunt your knowledge of various English dictionaries, go right ahead, but please don't pretend that the definition of racism is as cut and dried as you claim.

[arely staircase]

89. uh, no mexican isnt a race but most mexicans are a mix of indigenous american and european, therefor

not white like the teacher. so the comment does meet the racial threshold. would telling a black person to go back to africa not be racist? i mean african isnt a race.

[Kellerfeller]

109. If the black person continually said "I'm Rwandan"

And the teacher said "Fine, then go back to Rwanda", then no it would not be racist.

The same is true if a white person said it.

NO ONE IN THIS STORY BROUGHT UP RACE AT ALL.

Only those who are racist themselves see racism in everything. It's called projecting.

[EFerrari]

117. Wrong. Identifying racism isn't racism.

That is a right wing meme that I hope we'd be clear of here. Eta: that's their way of shutting down all discussion of racism which they depend upon to be elected.

Racism happens in context so your Rwandan comparison fails.

Telling "Mexicans" to "go home" has to be the oldest racial slur in the west. And Latinos are regularly called "Mexican" as the word is used as a racial slur here.

[Kellerfeller]

122. There is a huge difference

between calling out racism as opposed to seeing it everywhere, even when there is no evidence of it.

For example, just because you may see "Mexican" as a racial slur in your area, there is no indication the teacher does from this interaction. If there were, then I would be all for calling it out.

[EFerrari]

123. Yes, there is from her other comments related in the article.

People don't "see racism everywhere" although we do seem to deal with it all over the place. And "Mexican" is not only used as a slur in my "area". Ask Lou Dobbs.

[arely staircase]

126. "go back to mexico" has for my entire lifetime been a racist statement. a quite common one at that

at least in texas. i believe efarrari confirmed the same for california. if you do not see it as such, then you have not spent an extended period of time in places with large populations of mexican americans and whites who resent them. this whole argument is evocative of the time a group of posters tried to claim that the woman who asked the first black president to sing and dance a little jig for her wasn't racist.. it boggles the mind.

fyi - if you read the rest of my posts you will see that i am one who is NOT calling for her dismissal. i am not calling the teacher a racist, only her statement.

[Honeycombe8]

85. Teachers are human. Her comment was a response to his comment and not racist.

That's how I interpret it. If there wasn't a pattern of her saying things like that, or if she just sprang forth with that comment for no reason, but she was frustrated with that kid's disruptive tactics which involved HIM making a big deal out of his being Mexican and not American.

I'd give her a pass this one time. Teachers are only human, which means that sometimes they screw up.

And I'm guessing that disruptive kid is the one who "reported" that supposedly racist comment, furthering his disruptive tactics. He was interfering with the rest of the class' education, too.

The kid needs to be taught that he's American, not Mexican (unless he really is a citizen of Mexico here with his parents on a work visa or something). The teacher could've used that as a teaching moment, but that would've been considered racist, too. Maybe the kid can get a tutor after school to teach him English. If he wants to be a productive citizen, he's going to need it. Or else he'll end up just digging ditches.

[EFerrari]

116. You couldn't be more wrong about her comment

What you are doing is giving racism a pass. Which I assume isn't your goal.

Frustrated teachers dealing with disruptive students don't usually reach for a nativist slur. If they do, they have a problem.

[boppers]

149. "Mexican" is not a race.

Asserting otherwise is usually a form of nationalism with a mask of racism, so I guess I've nullified my point.

[EFerrari]

151. Yes, nativism is a form of racism. n/t

[boppers]

152. I posted this before scrolling down (and seeing your plea to stop laboring this point).

Yes, you mostly get it, AFAICT... but Mexicans would be *native* Texans, in this context, because Texas was part of Mexico, so it's a bit like saying "go back to where you already are!". Same thing for most of the southwest states, they were Mexican earlier, and Native American before that.

[hermily]

158. Agree

100% agree.Thanks EFerrari

[hermily]

160. Yes!!!!

I am glad this incident was brought out to the media so that teachers get the message and learn what no to do inside the classrooms. They should always be an example for our kids to follow not the other way around. Eferrari, I read all your comments and there isn't a single one I disagree with.The information you provide is not only enlightening but educational. I thank you for that.

[EFerrari]

161. Welcome to DU, hermily.

[arely staircase]

53. she should have sent him directly ro the office to get the form

if he continued to disrupt her class she should have sent him to the office on a discipline referal and he could have picked one up then. she shouldn't have said what she did and should expect to be punished, if this was an isolated event over an otherwise good career then she souldn't be fired.

[Honeycombe8]

94. I don't think TX provides alternative teaching materials & forms in different languages.

That was the problem. She could've sent him to the office to discuss the language issue, maybe, with them.

[arely staircase]

96. no, the forms in spanish were available in the office, the story says. nt

[Honeycombe8]

98. Oh, I missed that sentence. It says she tried to tell him to go get it from the office...

but he just saying that he was Mexican. Language barrier, maybe? But it says the kid had a history of disruptive behavior. So she just lost her cool for a moment, which she admits. It's understandable. We all have lost our cool and said dumb things on occasion.

[arely staircase]

102. im a school teacher and i get the feeling the kid was being a total jackass

i would not teach middle school for mitt romneys money. nevertheless, this teacher screwed up.

[BeHereNow]

121. I vote "jack ass" too. Seen it too many times myself.

The KID was pulling the race card and knew damned well what he was doing.
She gave him the information he needed to get the form, but he kept going
with "I'm a Mexican."

If I had a dollar for every student who tried to pull the race card on me,
I'd be rich.

I'm SO glad not to work in that environment anymore.
It is SO frustrating to see one or two students wreck the
learning of everyone else and not be able to stop the madness.

BHN

[tammywammy]

97. It's in the article

AISD does provide Spanish language forms. He was told the Spanish form was in the office.

[Honeycombe8]

84. Me, too. If it's not a pattern and onetime frustration comment, give her a pass.

Her comment wasn't just something that sprang out of nowhere. It was a response to his comment. In junior high school, one of my teachers had a sort of meltdown caused by the boys in the class. It was weird to watch. I'd never seen an adult act like that. But I felt sorry for her and understood how she was driven to it. Did she handle it right? No. But she was normally a very nice lady. She was really having a meltdown moment, and I sort of understood it, even tho I was a kid. And I actually appreciated her at least trying to deal with the disruption because it was interfering with the rest of the class trying to focus on what she was trying to teach us.

[HockeyMom]

2. She didn't have ANY forms or those just in English

in her classroom for the student to take home to the parent? I worked in a Title 1 school in Florida where the majority of the kids were Hispanic, or Haitian. The teacher keep forms in the classroom in English, Spanish, AND Haitian Creole.

If you have Hispanic kids in the class, why NOT have Spanish forms right in the class? Not prepared, at the very least.

[MrsBrady]

73. texas doesn't have bilingual education

for high school.

I think it's only in the lower grades.

She should have just sent him to the office.

[sammytko]

3. here is her rate my teacher page

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/shirley-bunn/1134716-t

[sammytko]

5. transferred to another school

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/16/3741834/hearing-examiner-recommends-reinstatement.html

i think she just snapped, but this article does say that she made reference to kids as the "mexican mafia"

[sammytko]

6. She's 63, so started her teaching career in her late 30s?

Maybe its taken its toll on her. Poor thing

[EFerrari]

13. If she started teaching the day she turned 20, she started in 1969.

[sammytko]

15. She's been a teacher for 23 years....

[EFerrari]

16. Oh, yeah, you're right.

Teachers lose it sometimes. It's one of the hazards of thinking on your feet for a living. But when we lose it, we usually don't reach for the oldest nativist slurs available to us.

For example, my aunt is a retired bi-lingual teacher from San Francisco public schools. She used to call her kids "pescaditos", the little fish, because they breathed through their mouths and stared at her with their eyes wide when she was explaining a new idea.

[The Genealogist]

52. My grandmother started a teaching career in earnest at about 40 or so

She may have taught some at an earlier age, when less education was required to teach; she was married at age 22. But after my father and his brother had gotten into their teens, she began teaching at a one-room school at about age 39 or 40. That would have been 1951. At that time, she hadn't even a bachelor's degree. By 1968, she had earned her PhD in education/psychology and by the time she retired in 1976 at age 65, she had five years of experience as a guidance counselor under her belt. So, the age wasn't a great surprise to me.

[saras]

4. Any white American who says this should be exiled to England without trial.

Who cares if they really come from England or not, as long as they aren't here?

[Johnson20]

20. Why England? Or are you lumping

all whites together (you know them darn foreign whiteys)? Looks to me like bigotry is alive and well here on DU

[EFerrari]

30. For the irony challenged, that's the same as calling all Latinos "Mexicans". n/t

[MrBig]

31. Except

The student in this case didn't call himself a Latino. He called himself a Mexican, repeatedly apparently.

It would be the same as a student saying, "But I'm French. But I'm French." and the teacher responding "Go back to France."

[EFerrari]

39. Yeah, we have a real problem with people of French descent being told

to go back to France. We should do something about that.

[MrBig]

42. I think you missed my point

The French/France thing is an analogy to what was said by the teacher.

My understanding of your interpretation is the teacher's comments were no different from a black student being told by the teacher to "Go back to Africa."

My understanding of the teacher's comments is that the student said they were of _____ nationality and the teacher saying "Go back to _______ (name of nation)."

This isn't justifying the teacher's comments. At the very least, the teacher engaged in inappropriate and immature banter with a student. But I don't think there was a racist intent nor racism involved.

[arely staircase]

75. it isnt the same

but i am willing to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt - that that is how she meant it. but only a fool would claim those statements would be the same in america early 21 century.

[Honeycombe8]

86. I think it is the same, if you're talking about a kid who speaks only French...

and is being disruptive. He keeps saying "I'm French, I'm French...I need a special form written in French." And if the area has had a large influx of people who speak only French, going to schools and working, while not learning to speak English. It would be the same thing if the teacher were to say in frustration, "Then go back to France," since there is no French language form.

The school should handle the Spanish-speaking issue in some way. Giving English lessons to Spanish-only speaking kids or tutoring or something. The teachers of other subjects are there to teach those subjects, in the language that is most common and historical to Americans, English. They don't have interpreters or translator services to provide special schooling in other languages, whether it's German, French, or Spanish.

In this case, it sounds as if it wasn't a good kid making a request, but a kid with a pattern of being disruptive. Hence the frustration of the teacher. That's no excuse for what she said, but it is an explanation & reason for giving her a pass this once, if she didn't have a pattern of that.

[arely staircase]

95. the history of anti mexican bigotry in texas and the dirth of comparable francophobia

makes it quite diferrent.

[Honeycombe8]

99. I live in TX near where that school district is. There is no anti-Mexican bigotry here...

there is a resentment of certain things caused by the huge influx of illegal immigrants in the state. But I think the Mexican culture is generally well thought of as a hard working, family oriented culture.

But as I say, there are natural resentments about certain things caused by the unique problems associated with a large influx of people from another country (could be any country), who come illegally, and don't want to integrate and assimilate with the country they say they want to adopt as their own. A lot of the sex offenders are from Mexico, since they didn't go through a background check, as well as quite a lot of theft rings (some of them make their living this way, rather than get paid peanuts slaving in the hot sun all day). That's not the same as being bigoted against an entire ethnicity because of their ethnicity. It's based on behavior and personal experiences.

I didn't understand it, until I moved here. I'm from south La., where there were almost no hispanics at the time, except citizens who'd been here for decades or a century.

Many of my co-workers are hispanic who have relatives from Mexico or maybe came from Mexico years ago. They are bilingual. No one is bigoted against them, that I know of.

[arely staircase]

101. then congratulations for living in the only town in texas with no anti mexican bigotry

im being sarcastic of course. i have lived my entire life in texas and even my hometown of austin, a liberal oasis in an otherwise conservative state, has plenty of it, less than mot places, but it is there.

[Honeycombe8]

120. You're off topic. This is about one remark by one person in response to one remark by

a disruptive kid. She said she was frustrated & spoke rashly & shouldn't have said that.

This is not a case of bigotry. This is a case of a bad kid driving a teacher to a point of frustration. It happens, even with good teachers, which is what she is.

It's hard enuf to get good teachers. We shouldn't be firing them for making mistakes, for gosh sakes. Or we won't have any teachers at all.

I'll tell my co-workers that they are discriminated against and held up to ridicule, like you said. They'll get a good laugh at that. Like I said, it's BEHAVIOR that is behind resentment. Not ethnicity. They could be black or asian or German or anything. If I moved, along with several million people, to Italy, entered their schools without learning the language, took jobs from Italians for less money, and they resented taht, would it be because I'm white or American? No, it'd be because of the behavior that millions of people are doing.

[EFerrari]

162. No, it's not the same because the American Southwest was never France. nt

[Johnson20]

35. Regardless, being Irish I was offended by it.

[EFerrari]

37. Yes, regardless of the context, that would make sense. nt

[Johnson20]

51. That escapes me, please explain the context in which bigotry is OK

[arely staircase]

92. my celtic dad despised being called anglo nt

[arely staircase]

103. my favorite thing i when people call me and other mexican americans spanish

they think mexican is a slur. probably because they have used or heard it used as such so many times.

[EFerrari]

105. I know, lol.

They only say "Spanish" when they are being polite.

There's a Steve Pinker type book in how Latinos are described in the American Southwest.

[arely staircase]

124. from the office

Oscar: My parents were Mexican.
Michael: Wow. That is... That is a great story. That's the American Dream right there, right?
Oscar: Thank... Yeah...
Michael: Um, let me ask you, is there a term besides Mexican that you prefer? Something less offensive?
Oscar: Mexican isn't offensive.
Michael: Well, it has certain connotations.
Oscar: Like what?
Michael: Like... I don't... I don't know.
Oscar: What connotations, Michael? You meant something.
Michael: No. Now, remember that honesty...
Oscar: I'm just curious.
Michael: ...empathy, respect... [Phone ringing] Jim! Jim!

[EFerrari]

128. We board horses here and most of our boarders

are of Mexican extraction. I don't know who is who, how was born here, who resides here or is naturalized, who is only working up here.

They bring their families on the weekends and cook out, sometimes opening a few Tecates, always with their sweet voiced kids in tow. They speak Spanish or English or Spanglish and there are usually rancheras playing on their radios on Sunday afternoons.

These folks have show horses and on the weekends, some of the men dress both their horses and themselves in full regalia, the riders in beautifully tailored, tight fitting suits, embossed chaps and big hats. The horses are bathed and groomed and have beautiful saddles. They put their horses through their paces -- some of it looks like ballet. Then, they ride these hills and behind these jinetes, you can see Silicon Valley below.

I've rarely seen such self-discipline and in a way, courage, too, to be so focused on celebrating a culture, to work so hard to keep bringing forth its beauty, surrounded by so much indifference, hostility and even hatred.

[arely staircase]

167. that sounds like a lot of fun, really

i got to see some vaquerors verdaderos in rural arandas.

[Gman]

48. What do you do with a kid that says this?

??

[arely staircase]

93. send him to the office to get the form

if he continued to disrupt then he should be sent there on a discipline referal

[Gman]

8. BS. The teacher did nothing wrong

The kid forced the situation and now he's laughing about it with his friends.

[RebelOne]

9. I agree. You are right. n/t

[EFerrari]

26. No, he's not right. Using nativist slams on kids entrusted to your care is wrong.

That would be, the definition of "wrong".

Would you be rationalizing if this teacher used the N word?

It's the same thing. It's wrong, even if the kid was annoying.

[MrBig]

32. I disagree

If the student had been saying "But I speak Spanish" or "But I'm Latino" or "But I'm Hispanic", then saying "Go back to Mexico" would indeed be wrong and downright racist.

But since the student repeatedly said, "But I'm Mexican", I don't think the teacher was derogatory with her comment. Doesn't mean she was right in saying it. But I don't think it's as egregious as you think, though I certainly understand and respect your point of view on the matter, especially given the looooooong history of discrimination and statements of this nature used in many different contexts.

[tammywammy]

38. +1 n/t

[EFerrari]

45. How does what the kid said mitigate her remark, exactly?

She was the adult in the situation. He's supposed to learn from her.

Telling him to go back to Mexico is egregious, no matter how he asked for that form. There is no context in which that would be okay.

[MrBig]

49. Not mitigate, but puts it in some context

What I said was that I don't believe the comment was as egregious as you are thinking it is.

That's not saying the comment is okay. Rather, its saying the comment was inappropriate, but did not reach the racist/derogatory level you are viewing it as.

You are absolutely correct in that she was the adult and he is supposed to learn from her. A teacher should not behave in that manner.

[EFerrari]

69. Well, in context of that particular nativism, it's akin to a teacher

using the N word on a black kid. That is the history of that remark and that is the context.

[MrBig]

104. I disagree

If the student had been shouting "I'm Latino! I'm Latino!" or even "I speak Spanish! I speak Spanish!" and the teacher's response was "Go back to Mexico" then I would be in complete agreement with you.

Your interpretation of the situation does not seem to take into consideration the wording chosen by the student, "I'm Mexican! I'm Mexican!"

[EFerrari]

107. You are comparing language used by an insider to language used by an outsider.

It makes a difference. If I walk up to someone and call them the N word, it's not going to be the same speech act as if Chris Rock does it.

"Go back to Mexico" must be the oldest racial slur in the American Southwest along the lines of "go back to Africa" in other parts of the country.

And please, nobody bother to tell me "Mexican" is not a race. Bigots aren't that interested in the details.

[MrBig]

139. 99 times out of 100 you are correct

"Go back to Mexico" is used in a discriminatory manner 99% of the time, in my opinion.

However I think in this situation, we have that rare 1% where its use is not blatant discrimination. Obviously we can't go inside the teacher's head to determine whether she would have said "Go back to Mexico" if the student had said "But I'm Hispanic/Latino/etc.". Given the circumstances here, I don't think we can assume a discriminatory intent, nor should we automatically jump to that as its an extremely heavy accusation that should only be used when appropriate.

[MrBig]

140. Also

I haven't found where it states what the teacher's ethnic background or nationality is to know whether she's an "outsider".

I would also state that, in the classroom, it shouldn't matter whether the person is an insider or outsider, using the N word or saying "Go back to Mexico" is inappropriate regardless.

[EFerrari]

142. Shirley Bunn is not a Latina.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A2KJke2LzUJPQRsAjm2LuLkF?p=Shirley+Bunn+Arlington&ei=utf-8&iscqry=&fr=sfp

And, context does matter.

[MrBig]

153. A picture?

I don't see how someone's picture demonstrates whether or not the person either Latina and/or from Mexico.

Are you saying you know she is not Latina because her skin isn't the right color? I don't mean to put words into your mouth, but I don't see how else to interpret that.

[EFerrari]

154. Actually, my coloring is a lot like hers and unless I self-identify

no one would know I am a Latina. In fact, I get to eavesdrop all the time on Spanish speakers, lol, who assume I can't understand what they're saying.

But there is zero evidence that Bunn is a Latina. Not her appearance, not her name, not a bit of identifying behavior or language. Maybe that is a more accurate statement.

[MrBig]

155. I have a friend who can relate...

Which works wonders when we play rec sports and the other team shouts instructions to teammates in Spanish and my friend will shout back in English much to their dismay.

And I agree with your second statement, which I should have assumed was what you meant. Nothing indicates Bunn is a Latina, I was just hesitant to conclusively say she isn't as I hadn't seen anything one way or the other. Of course, if she is Latina, my guess is the media would have jumped all over that.

[joeglow3]

61. Wrong? Yes. Fireable offense? Give me a break.

[EFerrari]

68. If you read my posts, you'll see I haven't advocated for that. n/t

[EFerrari]

67. Coincidently, I'm not.

[cyberswede]

70. That poster is no longer with us

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=281029?=trans

[Honeycombe8]

88. "Mexico" is not the same thing as the "N" word. Totally different.

It's really the school district's fault, since they apparently don't provide alternate books and forms in other languages (French, German, Spanish, whatever). It's probably a money thing.

The kid, with a history of being disruptive it seems, was making an insistent thing about his needing a form in Spanish because he's Mexican. Her comment was a direct response to that, when the kid kept saying that, knowing that the school does not provide materials in other languages. It was just a comment out of frustration, and if not a pattern, is excusable at least once.

Teachers are only human. They lose their cool sometimes, make mistakes, just like you and I do.

I hope the Spanish-only speaking parents, with the school district, try to address the problem of kids who can't participate in class because they don't know the language. Maybe tutors, special classes to teach English to kids from other countries, etc. But that costs money.

It's a problem. I don't know...if I moved to Italy with kids and put them in public school, would Italy provide special textbooks and forms in English for us? Or would I try to get the kids some way to learn Italian? I don't. know. But it should be addressed, if those kids are going to get an education.

[Drahthaardogs]

90. No way.

She did not call the kid a slur or slang for a Mexican immigrant. This is in no way, shape, or form remotely close to calling a black person the N-word. If she called him a little s-word, THAT would the same thing. She basically told him to go back to his native country. It was not a nice statement, but it was not a racial slur either.

[EFerrari]

163. Oh, geeze. "Go back to Africa", "go back to Mexico".

Of course it's a racial slur and it's one of the oldest ones in the West and at the same time, one of the most hilariously ignorant ones or as some people say, "I didn't cross the border, the border crossed me".

Just as calling a black person the "N" word dehumanizes them, telling someone to go back to Mexico defines that person as "other" and as not belonging.

[EFerrari]

11. By forcing the situation, you mean, the kid asked for something he needed?

That's what school kids do and it's her job to give him what he needs.

Do you disagree with the teacher when she says she lost her temper?

[Gman]

47. There is no defending this kid so stop trying

He's laughing about it to his friends.

[EFerrari]

72. Wait, so a kid asks for a form he is legally entitled to

and you project, he is laughing with his friends about the teacher's bad behavior? And that makes him indefensible?

That's some fantasy you have going there.

[Honeycombe8]

91. Why do you think the school district is legally require to provide alternate books & forms

in other languages? Did that state pass a law to that effect? My understanding is that the kid was asking for something repeatedly that he knew the teacher did not have. Not her fault. The kid had a history of being disruptive, so it wasn't like a meek kid merely asking once for a form in Spanish. He was insistent and demanding, saying repeatedly, "I'm Mexican, I'm Mexican." Which is an odd thing to say, instead of "I'm from Mexico" or "I only speak Spanish," unless that's the only way he knew to express it in English.

Maybe the parents can get him into a tutoring class for English or something. He needs an education if he's going to get a good job when he grows up. Plus, an education just for its own sake is a good thing.

[Drahthaardogs]

100. The article specifically says he was disruptive.

and kept yelling "I'm Mexican, I'm Mexican". The teacher informed him forms in Spanish were in the office, and he kept being disruptive and yelling "I'm Mexican". He did not say "Excuse me Ma'am, I need a form in Spanish since I am from Mexico and my parents do not read English".

He did not "ask" for it, he yelled for it and made the learning environment for the other kids a bad place. The teacher should have had him removed from the classroom and called his parents to come and get him.

Everyone here seems to agree with you that the comment was out of line and that the teacher should be reprimanded. Why do you have to pretend that the boy's behavior was not bad. It is quite obvious it was.

[EFerrari]

131. Gman said the boy is indefensible. That's over the top.

He also speculated that the kid was laughing at the teacher with his friends. That's fantasy.

Have you ever taught or had kids in middle school? I would last about a week in that job because kids are testing every single boundary they can find. If you want to call that "bad", fine. It's early adolescence. The kind of respectful deference that you suggest the kid should have shown is not a distinguishing feature of those years, unfortunately.

[Drahthaardogs]

134. Yeah, I have taught Jr. High

I filled in for a teacher one half semester who went on maternity leave while I was in grad school working on my research (all I had left), so I taught algebra and biology to 7th and 8th graders. They can be idiots for sure. You know what stinks here? What stinks is that this kid's behavior was disruptive, and that he was disrupting the environment for the other 29 kids in the classroom, and you're defending it.

Don't tell me about adolescence. My grandfather went into the coal mines at age 13 because his father was killed in a cave-in. He had 4 brothers and sisters to feed and no security net. He came out 46 years later. I grew up on a ranch and I worked right alongside the men from the time I was 7 years old. Granted, I could not do everything they could, but I could sure sit a saddle an push cows with them. It is about expectations. He misbehaves because we have a neutered school system, teachers cannot enforce discipline in their own classrooms, and parents don't give a good goddamn. He can get away with bad behavior and he knows it. Ask any teacher today what the problem is, it is PARENTS who defend their kids no matter what they do.

Now, if you want to sit there and state this teacher blew it, I will agree. However, if you are going to sit there and tell me that she should TOLERATE and the rest of the parents should accommodate this behavior, I am going to say you are full of it and need a big dose of reality.

[EFerrari]

135. Speaking of a big dose of reality

Please show me where I endorsed bad behavior or said this teacher should endure it.

Thanks.

[Drahthaardogs]

137. Not sure how you meant it but...

" If you want to call that "bad", fine. It's early adolescence"

Nonsense. It is not "early adolescence" it is a little undisciplined brat being a brat. My dad would have kicked my ass up to my shoulderblades if I was disrespectful to a teacher like that. You seem to think that this behavior is inevitable. It is NOT. The teacher blew it, but this kid was behaving like an ass and should be called on it too.

[EFerrari]

138. " If you want to call that "bad", fine. It's early adolescence"

And that is not an endorsement, thank you.

[sibelian]

10. Bad child. Difficult what to say about the teacher.

I don't think "go back to mexico" was the right thing to say, however, losing one's job over it is too extreme a punitive measure.

[EFerrari]

12. Out of curiosity, how do you know this is a bad child?

If asking for a form in Spanish is a sample of his disruptiveness, I have to wonder what "bad" means.

Arlington Independent School District is 36% Hispanic. If they all "go back to Mexico", this teacher would likely have no job to keep.

[sibelian]

36. Well, the article says as much...

I suppose they could just be lying...

[EFerrari]

40. What bad behavior does the article describe?

It says the student was disruptive and it tells you the student was slammed for asking for a form in Spanish.

Is that enough for you? Doesn't sound like they have much on this kid.

[sibelian]

55. I'm nonplussed. Do you believe that I have chosen sides against the child?

A "history of disruptive behaviour" is sufficient to assume that the child was disruptive. This is bad behaviour. So - "bad child".

This bit you say: "the student was slammed for asking for a form in Spanish" - that is not true. If you've read the article then you'll know that the child continued interrrupting the teacher after she had already provided a solution to him, provoking her until she behaved badly in return. This is bad manners, as was her response. In fact the child was slammed for "interrupting the teacher", not "asking for a form in Spanish".

If the teacher had responded with "go back to Mexico!" the first time the child had explained he was Mexican, we can legitimately say the child was "slammed" for "asking for a form in Spanish", but as the teacher had already explained how to get a form in Spanish her reaction to him can't really be explained as a result of him asking in the first place.

[EFerrari]

79. A distinction without a difference. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

156. Seems more the opposite to me.

A substantial difference that is less than distinct, divided only by appropriate responses to the same question, time, and a kid set on acting a monkey to asked and answered.

By middle school age, no matter how little english he speaks the kid also knows his parents speak spanish and was only pushing "I'm Mexican" to be an ass just as almost all middle school kids are.
He was being an ass and now everyone wants to be upset he was responded to as an ass.

I'm saying that the comment may have been fueled by bigotry or maybe it was just the end of patience with an ass being an ass.

[EFerrari]

164. You don't teach kids how to behave in your classroom

by being a bigger ass than they are.

[TheKentuckian]

165. Granted, I'm saying the response (poor as it was) need not be fueled by bigotry

The teacher can still be dead wrong and not be operating with the mentality she was accused of. Allowing profesionalism to be lost, reacting rather than thinking, and even lashing out aren't the same thing as being a bigot.

One may treat them the same in the end, I wouldn't but one reasonably could but I'm not sure by any stretch what the motivation is.

[EFerrari]

166. I don't know the lady.

It could well be that she was exasperated and the oldest nativist slur in this part of the world just came out of her mouth. She keyed on "Mexico" and that's what her brain gave her.

But, even if that happened, it was a good thing that she was called to task. That part of the country is infested with Republicans fanning this stuff. The kids need the support and in a way, she does, too.

[Obamacare]

14. That kid seems like trouble, I'm siding with the teacher on this one too.

If the teacher has a history of racism or intolerance towards non-white students I would say fire her. But if this is a first occurrence, they should do everything in their power to make sure it doesn't happen again and let her keep her job.

[sammytko]

17. She's referred to them as the Mexican Mafia.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/16/3741834/hearing-examiner-recommends-reinstatement.html

[EFerrari]

19. This isn't the first occurence of her making a negative comment about Hispanics. n/t

[sibelian]

62. I'm not sure where your knowledge of this teacher is coming from, EFerrari.

Could you perhaps point us in its direction?

[EFerrari]

66. The OP. n/t

[sibelian]

76. so that would be...

the bit where -

"Bunn refers to a disruptive group of boys in class as the “Mexican mafia”"

and, presumably excluding the bit where she has demonstrated positive attitudes to Hispanics like

"volunteer efforts with a Hispanic heritage organization"

Yes?

[EFerrari]

78. How would that be excluding anything?

The question was if she has made similar comments before and the answer is yes.

[w8liftinglady]

18. Bilingual paperwork is available in the AISD.

I have a feeling that the teacher just snapped.Texas school districts have drastically cut back teaching staff and ancillary staff (read-interpreters) to save the precious Republican tax dollar.
A few disclaimers...I am bilingual,my kids went to AISD,mom lives in Arlington and ex-partner taught ESL in AISD.

My sons would routinely bring home "official" paperwork in English and Spanish.Generally,students who were not English-fluent were placed in "English as second language" classrooms.Arlington is unique in the fact that in addition to Hispanic Bilingual students,there is a large population of Vietnamese,Pakistani and many other countries' transplants due to the HUGE UT Arlington,the presence of General Motors,Lockheed Martin and the fact that it exists smack-dab in the middle of the highway between Dallas and Ft Worth.English as a second language used to be the accepted teaching method for children in the upper elementary grades(4th and up).This method has only changed in the last 5 years or so,as more bilingual students are exclusively Spanish Speaking.The effort has been made to replace laid off and retired teachers with exclusively bilingual teachers as they graduate from school,but it is a work in progress.

[MineralMan]

21. If this teacher has been in that district, or anywhere in Texas

for 23 years, I cannot understand why she would not be bilingual. That's more than enough time to attain fluency in Spanish by mere absorption. As a teacher who encounters students for whom Spanish is the primary language, I'd learn Spanish just as fast as I possibly could if I taught there. To not do so is a statement.

I grew up in a California farming community where the Hispanic population in the 50s and 60s was close to 50%. I learned Spanish by simply being there, and every teacher in our primary and secondary schools could carry on a conversation in Spanish that had to do with students' needs. If a new teacher came who did not have any Spanish, by the end of that teacher's second year, he or she was capable of communication in that language.

I find it difficult to believe that any teacher in Texas can survive without some degree of Spanish fluency.

[w8liftinglady]

22. As I said, I am bilingual.(English/Spanish)

Barnett Junior High is located in South East Arlington.Southeast Arlington is known as "Little Saigon" to the people who live here,with one of the largest Vietnamese populations in The United States.Should Barnett's teachers also be English/Viet Namese bilingual?

Yo quiero que todos los estudientes aprenden,pero,entiendo lo que esta pasando con los profesores.

[MineralMan]

23. I know you are, and that's muy excelente.

If the school has large numbers of Vietnamese-speaking students and parents, then yes, teachers there should study Vietnamese. Attaining basic conversational competence and the ability to be polite in a language is a simple matter, and is much appreciated by native speakers. It is not necessary to be bilingual, just conversational. If bilingual capabilities are required, then that's another matter.

When I moved to my St. Paul neighborhood, I discovered that about a third of my neighbors were Hmong. So, I took an introductory class in the language so I could be polite and friendly with those neighbors for whom English was difficult. Since then, the neighborhood children have taught me more of the language. The children think I'm funny, since I'm the only American they know who speaks Hmong. They've played a couple of pretty funny tricks on me, though, and I've learned to check what they teach me with an adult. Now, the grandmothers in their households can chat with me about cooking, etc. They think it's amazing that I can speak with them and it has made relationships with my neighbors much better.

I consider learning the conversational basics of the most dominant language besides English where you are to be an important priority.

[w8liftinglady]

24. Understood.

My dad was also a Chinese/Vietnamese/Korean translator and my mom was Italian/English bilingual,so I had an advantage.

Texas has eliminated most positions that assisted with translation,and increased the class size above the 4th grade to 30 or more students,due to funding cuts.
Texas has also initiated a new standardized exam(this is the first year).All schools,regardless of economic status,language barriers,etc ad nauseum, are expected to score above a "certain" level to get funding.The teachers' salaries are also dependent upon how their students score.Texas has also eliminated "special needs" classes,so students with learning or behavioral diagnoses are in the same class as the accellerated students.This causes an increase in behavioral issues for both ends of the spectrum.It is a "No-win" situation.The teachers who give a damn are stressed to the max.
The obvious answer would be decreased class size and bilingual classes of multiple languages for transitioning students.That would require funding.Arlington is Joe barton's district....need I say more?

Texas also teaches "abstinence-only" and has the highest teen pregnancy rate...did I mention that?

[MineralMan]

25. Texas - It's a whole other country.

Or so the old ad from their tourist bureau said.

[EFerrari]

27. There are a lot of bi-lingual nativists out there, especially out here.

Fluency is really beside the point.

My pilot bigot brother-in-law was fluent in three languages, may his berth in Hell not discomfit too many other souls. He never lost an opportunity to use what he thought my ethnicity was to try to make me feel uncomfortable. He just did it in fluent Spanish.

This lady may have been having a really rotten day, that happens. But if there is a bigger problem, she's gotten the feedback she needs to attend to it. And the Latino kids have gotten a bit of support, too. Maybe everybody wins out of this one.

[arely staircase]

87. bien dicho nt

[Obamacare]

33. Comment from a freeper, WTF!!

To: bigdirty
The child should be deported to Mexico and shot if they ever try to come back.



13 posted on Friday, February 17, 2012 3:34:39 PM by bigdirty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies

[Riley18]

41. I am siding with the teacher because she should not be faced with losing her job over one comment.

I could see maybe taking some sensitivity training, but really there was no harm done. What happened to the kid actually following directions from the teacher? She said go to the office for the paper. How many times was she supposed to keep saying the same thing?

[Quantess]

46. I would have been irritated, too.

It sounds like it was an understandable thing to say, given the context. Not acceptable, but understandable that she would lash out like that.

[MrBig]

50. From a larger picture point of view

I agree. This teacher should not be fired. From what students are saying, it appears she's actually good at her job. The last thing we need is to fire a teacher who is actually good at what he/she does.

She does need sensitivity training as you suggest.

[BeHereNow]

119. She needed administrative support-

She needed a way to get the kid out of her classroom.
I would be certain she had no help in doing so.
She snapped, most people would have in the same situation.
The kid had probably been behaving this way from the beginning of the year.
As I recall, the incident occurred about 6 weeks into the school year.

She had probably been trying to deal with him disrupting her class since then.
He deliberately kept baiting her and I'll bet she showed
remarkable patience with him until that moment, which she has said
she regrets.

Bottom line, the school should have shipped him out to an alternative
school for behavioral problems long before the incident.

Having seen the system in action though- the student, despite
his effect on the learning environment of the other students in the class
has legal rights and the process of transferring him would be long and tedious so the
rights of ONE student, outweigh the rights of the other kids trying to learn.
It's ridiculous.

Meanwhile, the other kids suffer his obnoxious and selfish behavior.

BHN

[MrBig]

141. Yes, but

I would argue that it's her job to maintain composure. I'm not saying I would have been able to keep my cool with an unruly student, but that's not part of my job description. If she knew she was losing her cool, she needed to step out of the classroom and/or get additional support.

[UTUSN]

54. I'll R#6 (or whatever) and K this even without reading the o.p. nt

[Rex]

130. Why is that not allowed?

At least you did not alert on it.

[gulliver]

56. Looks like a Republican website.

Check out the front page and its nasty brown mug shots. And the politics section has video of Gingrich from Fox News Sunday.

That makes this story classic Republican fodder. A smirking immigrant delinquent hiding behind his immigration status humiliates a teacher until she lashes out stupidly. Then the bleeding hearts and PC police rush in. It's hard to find something better for Republicans than that—or worse for immigrants.

File this with the occasional story of the six-year-old kid who is suspended for sexual harassment for kissing a fellow student or for pointing his finger at someone and saying "bang." In Republican minds, these "outrage" stories counterbalance Republicans starting unnecessary wars and ruining the economy.

Oh and I love the word "reinstation."

[newspeak]

143. is this from a right wing news site?

This story, true or not, is written for reaction. I see we're getting some reaction here. Notice the violent reaction from, the freepers. I guess it served it's purpose.

[PavePusher]

58. Aaaahh, it's good to know that every day I can wake up, log into DU and have my faith in.....

good old-fashioned manufactured moral hysteria reconfirmed.

Consistency is so reassuring.....

[EFerrari]

80. Dismissiveness is not an argument. nt

[TheCruces]

63. Reading the headline, I agreed with firing her

Reading the article, all I think she needs is a "don't say that again" reprimand. The kid was being obnoxious and she likely snapped. It happens to everyone.

[BeHereNow]

71. Having dealt with kids like this one- I'm with the teacher.

Last edited Sat Feb 18, 2012, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)

And there is a very good possibility that his family members
are gang members who work for the Mexican Cartel.

If this teacher has ever met with his parents, I'm willing to bet
Dad is covered in ink.

I would be fairly certain, this teacher has NO administrative support.

EVERY single kid I dealt with who acted this way had gang family members
who instill the thought that there will be no repercussions for this
type of behavior, that "gringos" are to hated, women are inferior,
and that school doesn't matter because the gang will provide for them when they leave school.

It is a tragedy, and these kids are VERY hard to reach because of their families, most of
whom are on parole or in prison. They have no positive male role models.

I am willing to bet this kid will be shuffled off to the Special Ed classes
eventually. He is most certainly headed for the juvenile courts and all
that end up there, are put in Special Ed classes because the mainstream
teachers will not put up with them.

I think most Americans are fairly ignorant about the numbers
of Mexican Cartel gangsters in our public schools.

I guess it is more obvious in SoCal, where the gangs rule the city
and drug trade.

Flame away- but I invite you to spend an hour in a classroom with them first.
Most people wouldn't last half an hour.

This kid has no respect for his classmates who are trying to learn.
He wouldn't have been allowed to stay in my room as long as he did.
It simply isn't fair to the others.

BHN

[EFerrari]

81. I'm sorry, BHN, this whole post is a slur on Mexican Americans

and there's not much else to say about it but that your experience with that community is vastly different than mine is.

[PavePusher]

83. Note that he didn't say "Every Mexican-American kid had gang family members"....

He said "EVERY single kid I dealt with who acted this way had gang family members..."

I will say that the comment about "...I'm willing to bet Dad is covered in ink." is certainly gratuitously stereotyping and certainly at least bordering on bigotry.

For the record, my ex-girl-friend was a teacher in the Tucson school district and had similar disciplinary issues, with little backing from the system to teach/enforce responsible/respectful behavior to students. Many of them sure didn't seem to be getting any such direction at home. And there is certainly a gang problem in schools.

[BeHereNow]

108. I'm a she- and thank you for pointing that out

"Note that he didn't say "Every Mexican-American kid had gang family members"....

As I clarified in my response to EF, I was outside of school, AFTER school
and I saw the people who met the kids who were constant disruptors
in classes, constantly in the discipline office and a large percentage of them had
juvenile parole officers.

The people who would try to pass them things through the fence at lunch
and then appear after school to meet them were OBVIOUS gang members,
wearing the "colors" and attire and yes, covered in ink.

We always had no less three or four police cars outside trying to
chase them away- mostly, to no avail.

It's a huge problem in LA, caused by a few, to the detriment of many.
Just ask the families who are trying to keep these kids from influencing their kids.
They would be happy to see the gangs go back to Mexico.
They give hard working law abiding people a bad name- just ask them if it isn't so.
BHN

[PavePusher]

115. To be fair, a lot of the gangs did not originate in Mexico....

nor are they of solely of non-U.S. Citizen membership.

I'd say it's a fairly distributed problem.

[BeHereNow]

118. You are so correct-

It IS a fairly distributed problem.

I posted what I have experienced in reference to the
content of the story.

I have also seen the damage induced between the different racial gang factions.
In the school I worked in- two students of different minorities decided to
protest the war in their school by sitting in the "Armenian" lunch area.

One of the students, who was Mexican, was nearly killed by a lynch mob
of Armenians, including parents swinging golf clubs and baseball bats that night after school.

His mother moved in the middle of the night and we never saw the student again.

The black student, who I adored, was transferred to another school for his protection.

So yes, the problem is not limited to the Mexican gangs, not by a long shot.

BHN

[EFerrari]

133. Your post generalized from a boisterous kid

to a criminal culture working for the Mexican Cartels.

Then, you had to back out of that context you created to explain that not all criminal gangs are Mexican.

I understand you have had bad experiences with real criminals but your assumptions about this kid, his family and that community are offensive and the posts following them aren't really better, up to and including the repetition of the original offending statement: "They would be happy to see the gangs go back to Mexico."

[BeHereNow]

144. You are myopic in your perceptions EF.

Perhaps you should return to the link to this story and read what
Mexican-American parents have said about the incident.

All you can see/hear is that racism is being inflicted upon some
smart assed kid. There is SO much more to the story.

And I am not backing out of anything.
In LA, we have a LARGE constituency of gang members from many cultures.
That is a fact.

They are a blight on society- and any Armenian, Mexican, or other family
who cares about the conditions the gangs create will tell you the same thing-
they do not condone the activities of gangs, they suffer as minorities DUE
to gang activity, by association, and would like nothing more to see them kicked out of this country.

Out of curiousity, what is your experience in working with the gang population?
Any gang bangers, not just the Latino gangs?
BHN

[EFerrari]

145. No, I'm not myopic in the least.

And I didn't alert on your post although I probably should have.

[BeHereNow]

146. What?

You did not alert on my post?
What post exactly?

You lost me EF, and you did not answer my question.
What experience do you have in working with the gangs in LA-
Not just the Latino gangs, all of them.

I've been doing it since 1993.

The problem has grown exponentially in the last ten years.

And it IS NOT fair to the beautiful people who have immigrated to this
country who are discriminated against because of "guilt by association"
to these gangs.

This kid had NO respect for his teacher, his fellow students or anything
resembling consequences for his repeated disruptions in the class room.
It makes no difference WHERE he is from- what is unacceptable is
that he is allowed to BE in a classroom where other students are trying to learn.

If he had repeatedly claimed to be a Martian, I'm quite certain the teacher
would have elicited the same response- "Then go back to Mars."

This is NOT about racism - this is about an educational system that is broken.
A system that allows student rights to be completely out of control, at the cost of others
above all else.

I am willing to wager a bet with you EF, and I may even be able to see it through,
as my parents live near this school.

If we were to take a field trip, perhaps film a documentary about this incident,
you would learn that I have spoken from years of experience with kids like this and the teachers who do their
very best to help them.

BHN

[EFerrari]

147. I think we're done here. nt

[BeHereNow]

148. Wow- just wow.

You have yet to answer my questions and just exit our discussion with that?
Wow.

BHN because I KNOW you care.

[BeHereNow]

106. Perhaps I should clarify that my post is about a small segment of students.

The majority of students, from all backgrounds and cultures are
wonderful kids who WANT to learn.

The students who dress in "colors" and gang attire are a very real percentage of
schools in SoCal. They sign, they tag and they are completely disrespectful
of other people. We also have Armenian gang members, Crypt and Blood gang members,
Neo Nazi skin heads just to name a few.

In all cases, no matter the affiliation, these students create havoc in classrooms.
The administration is no help at all- and the students who act out consider it
a badge of honor to be sent to the discipline office.

ANY student who repeatedly disrupts the learning environment for
students who sincerely want to learn, should not be tolerated.
They should be sent to alternative schools who specialize in managing
the behavior.

This student, as he made the point so clearly, was a Mexican-American.
I would make the same point on ANY student who continuously displayed this behavior.

Part of my job included escorting disabled students to their busses after school.

What did I see after school?

The students who were the WORST behaviorally, were consistently met
by relatives wearing gang attire, prison ink and "colors."

What would you deduce, after time, from the situation?

Mind you, there are LOVELY and wonderful students from all races and cultures.
And then there ARE the few, thankfully, who destroy the education environment
for everyone.

Sorry, but in SoCal, the numbers are greatest in the Latino/Hispsanic students
as far as the troublemakers are concerned.

That is not a slur, that is reality.

RESPECTFULLY, cause you know I consider you a DU friend,
BHN

[Kellerfeller]

111. How? The kid said he was Mexican,

not Mexican-American.

You can possibly claim it is a slur on Mexicans but the truth is the post is just a slur on obnoxious kids.

On edit: disregard. I thought you referred to the OP. My bad.

[EFerrari]

114. No worries. We live in a complicated culture out here

in the West.

A kid can say he is Mexican as a way of saying he is a Spanish speaker and a stressed out teacher can answer "go back to Mexico" where "Mexican" becomes a slur. The context is complicated.

[LanternWaste]

125. I think many people are actively denying nuance and context...

I think many people are actively denying nuance and context to better deny that the possibility of racism in this case.

Why? Who knows...




Living and working in Arlington, TX though, I know better than to say to any of my Latino co-workers or neighbors, "hey-- go back to Mexico". They'd perceive it as racist, I'd perceive it as racist, and that's certainly good enough for this particular and non-too-clever guy to avoid it.

[EFerrari]

127. It reminds me of "no talk" rules in dysfunctional families

who keep their abusive shame system alive through silence. Imo, that's not a bad analogy for how America has coped with bigotry of all kinds but especially with racism. That's why shaming the person who brings up the topic is so intuitive for a lot of people.

Here in East San Jose, I'd get mixed reactions to saying "go back to Mexico". Some people would be deeply offended and some people would be terribly wounded because their deepest wish is to go home but they are stuck here.

[Rex]

129. He is the child, she is the adult.

I would have handled that quite a bit different.

[ecstatic]

136. I can't believe some posters are defending this!?

I'm speechless!

[Vattel]

150. Amazing that so many of the replies here

question whether the teacher's remark was racist. Obviously it was. Geez.

[LiberalFighter]

157. California Mexio? New Mexico Mexico? Texas Mexico? Arizona Texas?