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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA discussion thread where people who make 375k a year complain that they can't make ends meet.
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/304867.pageHooooooo boy . . . parse through it. It's an eye-opener. I imagine this will be spreading like wildfire soon.
And yes, I KNOW D.C. is an expensive place to live in, but there ARE cheaper options in the surroundings. NO one's holding a gun to your heads . . . you're CHOOSING not to live among the hoi polloi in Silver Spring or Glenmont and take (shudder) public transportation.
madokie
(51,076 posts)My mom would say
Many times it matters not how much a person has in whether they think of themselves as poor.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)is almost six months of take home pay in our household.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Wonder what kind of cheese she wants to go with that whine.
intheflow
(28,451 posts)Mind-boggling what people think they need to survive!
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Squinch
(50,934 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Squinch
(50,934 posts)And complain in front of them how she can't make ends meet.
I will bet money that she lords the "help's" paychecks over them.
jmowreader
(50,546 posts)One of my sisters has combined family income of around $400k/year. They live in a 3500sf house (that's paid for). The cleaning company sends three people.
Gman
(24,780 posts)in a long time. $3000 a month for a nanny? At least some nanny is getting paid well.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)I bet that nanny is live in and actually makes minimum wage if not below when we look at the actual hours worked.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)They need to downsize their home. If you are working that much - you aren't there to enjoy it anyways.
As my husband and I say, "How much do we need?"
We are high earners in one of the wealthiest counties in America (Central NJ) and even here there are beautiful homes to be had for $400K and only $8 to $10 K in property taxes per year.
I say "only" because we ARE high earners (not being smug) and we live within our means. The woman on that thread wants to live like a billionaire (wealthy) on a rich persons budget.
Now my rant: Those are the people that fucked up the economy. I know - I work with them. They've walked away from $800K homes, but at least they still have their Beemer and Audi. Two of them laughed at me in 2007 for living in a $1300 a month one bedroom apartment and for driving a 2006 Nissan Altima made in the USA that I paid cash for. Making a couple of six figures a year and spending it all is obnoxious. Same people would never give to a food bank - be it time or money.
I won't laugh at them - but there were people six years ago AND today that would LOVE to have their problems. But in the examples I provided - they are too selfish to see that they did it to themselves.
I'll save my sympathy for the family of four in my community trying to get by on $60K a year paying at minimum $1800K per month for a two bedroom apartment.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)is one that makes $60,000 a year? Over 50% of households make less than that.
But there are expensive places to live. Heck, I went house hunting in Baraboo, Wisconsin a town of 8,000 people and could not find an affordable house for the job I was looking at.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)Yep. Take 15 off the top for State Income and Federal Taxes.
45K. Conservative rent at $1800K - now the have $23,400. Very conservative.
Gas /Electric, Auto and Renters insurance, automobile maintenance, drs visits, dental vists, groceries.
Then again - I believe the NJ Minimum wage should be no less than $15 per hour.
The example I gave comes into the Food banks we volunteer at every Saturday.
In central NY - that family has money to save. They don't in NJ. Number one reason? Housing.
If we moved back to my home city of Rochester we could find a beautiful little home for $80K. We've looked but it's not best for our careers or our mixed race marriage.
Hekate
(90,616 posts)Ours is one of those locales where minimum wage should be $15/hour.
We are very fortunate because we bought 30 years ago and worked our butts off to pay off the mortgage, which was high even then. Now mortgages are insane; I feel really sorry for those starting out. I have a friend who rents a room in a house for $700/month.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I assumed you were a NYCer and I was about to point out that a family of four with income of $60K in NYC qualifies for food stamps because four people can't live on $60K/yr. in Manhattan.
I made $35K one year (single, no dependents) and qualified for EITC in excess of what I'd paid in taxes, rental assistance, assorted public assistance and utilities assistance.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)whatever with.
what is their problem?
i like the comment about tuscan whole milk, $45/gallon.
http://www.amazon.com/Tuscan-Whole-Milk-Gallon-128/dp/B00032G1S0
the comments at amazon are a crack-up too.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)are out of touch with reality. This is after they've paid all their bills and made 401k/IRA contributions. That's $2500 disposable income. They talk about summer camp and vacations and have no clue that the majority of Americans are lucky to have $100 left over at the end of the month. I'm currently enjoying a "staycation" 'cause I can't afford to go anywhere. Heck, I'd considered taking a bus trip to NYC for a day or driving to Gettysburg but decided I didn't have the funds to "splurge" on that kind of extravagance.
BTW, I'm with the hoi polloi in the Glenmont area and take the Metro to work instead of driving.
JustAnotherGen
(31,798 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)There are lot of things I'd like to do, but my situation is about as cloudy as the magic 8 ball so I'm not spending a dime more than I have to until I know how things are going to go.
And I, too take public transportation, and a big upside to that is, I haven't had to fill up my gas tank for about a month and a half. During that time gas prices went through the roof here, and I avoided all that. Saved a lot of money right there.
distantearlywarning
(4,475 posts)I wanted to ask her exactly what kind of vacations they were taking that $2500 a month wasn't enough??? On that kind of "vacation savings plan", you could do a pretty intense week in Paris every two months. For a lot of Americans, that would be a once-in-a-lifetime trip if at all. Personally, I could think of a hell of a lot of fun things to do in the world with a $30K a year vacation budget, and I would be thrilled beyond measure to have money like that. My household has about $5K a year to vacation with, and I've always thought we were pretty damn lucky, and I've been grateful and happy for everything we've gotten to do with that money over the years. There are a lot of people out there who can't ever get away at all.
That poster is seriously deluded, or nuts, or something.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)
Are the majority of Americans really lucky to have $100 left at the end of the month? If so - why? Myself, I put plenty away on my $33,000 income. I made my $6,500 IRA contribution back in March I think (but keep in mind that that contribution will save me over $1,000 in income taxes).
I don't take a lot of vacations though, because that just seems like a lot of money and a lot of expense.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)my parents are barely surviving on SSI. I doubt there's a month that goes by that they have $50 left, let alone $100. Both of my roommates work 2 jobs so they can have spending money instead of just paying bills.
I make a decent living but I have no life insurance, no retirement and if something major happens, it cuts into what I have as disposable at the end of the month. So, some months I'm lucky to have $100 left over. That's why I'm "staycationing" and not taking a $70 roundtrip bus to NYC for the day. I had some recent emergencies that came up that sapped what I had "saved" in my checking account for such things.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)also if your parents are on SSI, then they sorta have no reason to save. They don't need to save for retirement and presumably they do not need to save for their kid's education. Plus they should have the freedom to move somewhere low cost.
I've never seen the need for life insurance, but I have no family, so there is that.
Yeah, I got annoyed when the water heater going out took a big bite out of my savings, and then I remembered that is kinda what savings is for.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)That's, after taxes, $2461 a month. They say you should spend 1/3 of your monthly income on rent/mortgage. That's, for the average DPI, $820. Average rent in the US in 2012 was $1008 http://statspotting.com/rent-statistics-the-average-monthly-u-s-rent-for-apartments-hit-1008/
The national average for cost of living for a family of 5 totals $4886 http://cost-of-living.findthedata.org/l/615/National-Average
Are you seeing the issue I'm seeing immediately? If the average DPI is $38k and the national COL average is $4886 a month and you only bring home $2461 a month, that leaves you with nothing. Less than nothing at the end of the month.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)and that's before my .taxes.
Well, we do not all come in five-packs. I've only got four in my household - myself and three dogs. We don't all rent either. Home ownership rates are 60%+ are they not?
Plus, the average expenses includes taxes and when they say 1/3 of your income do they mean disposable income, or gross income?
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM . . . WHEN, oh WHEN did that start declining? What year indeed, Oh "Defenders of the Faith-Based"?????
More proof positive that "Trickle On" is a loser of a plan.
global1
(25,237 posts)where two families swap everything - one family is a high earning family living the good life (i.e., big house, nice cars, travel, good food, eats out at fine restaurants, nice clothes, basically everything that smacks of the so-called American dream) and the other family is destitute, could be living on food stamps or living from paycheck to paycheck or unemployed - renting, taking public transportation - basically everything that smacks of people that are living on the edge of financial ruin.
And I'm not talking about any 'pioneer lifestyle' - I'm talking about the 1%'s vs the bottom half of the other 99%.
Now there's a show I'd watch.
Alternate name of show: "Life Swap"
I like it
but it might be just as educational for a 5%er, making $105,000 a year to swap with somebody making only $25,000, but to get a real taste they would have to swap not just income, but also jobs, and I'd hate to drop anybody even in my stupid janitorial job without at least a couple weeks to training.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Fla_Democrat
(2,547 posts)"If your outgo exceeds your income, then your upkeep will be your downfall."
Sounds like they should visit a library (gasp.. there's poor people in those..) or a book store and check out Dr. Stanley's latest book.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)or Understanding Financial Stewardship?
I am not finding this "latest" book on the web.
tosh
(4,422 posts)at 8:58 this morning. Could this be credited to a DUer?
"Don't listen to those Redditors. They don't know what it's like living in the DC area. It's expensive. My husband makes $650K/year and we were having troubles making ends meet, what with day care, three car payments, country club memberships and our hat budget. But after taking a good hard look at our expenditures, we realized we needed to cut back. For instance, we paid our nanny Consuela $7.75/hr but she's from Guatemala, so she was getting paid a king's ransom. We simply cut her pay in half. She still makes more than her entire village and we saved some dough. Win-win.
For me, the problem became apparent when I realized the gold I dug wasn't nearly deep enough. I made the simple change of hooking up with various professional athletes in the area. Those Wizards and Redskins make plenty of money and that's really helped fill in the gaps...if you know what I mean. Sure you have to take a BBC now and again, now I don't worry about paying for oboe lessons.
Hope that helps you all. "
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)tosh
(4,422 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Some people...
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Anyone who cannot meet expenses on 375K a year needs some serious financial counseling. Or maybe just serious counseling.
People are just never fucking satisfied with what they have. They always want more...more...more...and then bitch when the wallet just can't take it anymore.
People like that just make me want to
kiva
(4,373 posts)the seventh post - they clear $14,000 after taxes and 501, spend $2800 on mortgage, have "only" $2500 for vacations and shopping...and spend a whopping $25 on charitable contributions.
Make7
(8,543 posts)As we all know, you can eat for less than $4.50 per day.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Whatta ya think of my journal now??
MissB
(15,805 posts)Wugh.
Dh and I make plenty, and we fully fund his 401k and my equivalent. We also fund our kids' 527 plans. And we are paying our house off at a faster (and therefore higher) rate. And we have plenty of spending money each month.
And we are damned grateful. We don't live like royalty. We brown bag-it every day and we don't hire out any of our maintenance (yard, house). Giving back is a natural part of our life and both of our employers make it easy to make monthly contributions.
I can only imagine how pissed off I'd be if I clicked through the link. Folks should appreciate when they're fortunate to not be struggling. It often is more about luck than hard work (though I don't discount the latter).
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)My son recently had a blow out while driving my car. It pulled him up into a stand of trees and he plowed over a 3 inch sapling and ended up ruining a wheel, busted the control arm, bent the inner tie rod and ruined an axle bolt. Plus a tow and a tire on the drivers side.
He's lucky he didn't hit the big tree. When he called to let me know, I could hear the fear in his voice. It scared him shitless. But I digress.
I wonder how that bugger would have gotten it repaired and back on the road with the 160.00 I had left?
jmowreader
(50,546 posts)I must know: what kind of shitbox needs that much work, and why haven't you pushed it off a cliff?
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)It's part of why I do not like the 99% vs. 1% , there is a large segment of that 99% that has no idea what struggling is and they hide behind the anger of the lower half so we don't notice them and ask them to cough up more.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts).... have so little appreciation for what they have.
Greed and avarice
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)undeterred
(34,658 posts)I worked with a man who rode his bicycle 2 miles to work and brought his lunch every day. He and his wife decided to do that so she could stay home with their children until they were school aged. So they didn't spend money on daycare and lots of other things, but he said it was the right decision. They had one car.
And he never complained about money.
RC
(25,592 posts)They know what is important. Ta hell wit da Joneses. Why care?
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Orrex
(63,185 posts)It's those threads complaining that $200K isn't "wealthy." Sure, the threshold is a bit lower, but it's still astronomical, unattainable wealth to a majority of Americans.
We can point and laugh at the poor little millionaires at the link, but there are plenty here among us of more or less the same mindset.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)and others that claim they have friends among the 2% that support Democratic causes so we shouldn't dare criticize the wealthy or the system that supports them, or we'll lose that support for the Dems.
There's something about having too much money that changes your outlook. I hate being poor, but I feel like it keeps my eyes clear and my priorities straight.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)I'm one of those that believe that 200k is not "wealthy" in many expensive areas of the country. 375k is wealthy is every part of the country except for Battery Park/Tribeca area of Manhattan.
Orrex
(63,185 posts)It doesn't matter if you can seek out and find a few precious areas where $200K doesn't qualify as wealthy; it's still astronomical wealth to a great majority of Americans. And I can guarantee you that someone is living on less than $30K within two miles of the person who's struggling to survive on $200K.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)The well off hide behind the suffering of the lower half of that 99% so we don't take notice of them.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I would honestly love to know.
Because I have a law degree and DH has a master's degree in physics; we're certainly qualified with good educations, but this country mercilessly tosses educated baby boomers in the trash heap. Because we have experience but refuse to work for minimum wage.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)A couple with a law degree and a masters in physics should easily make 200-300k combined income. It should be doable in any large city in America.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)I talked to quite a few of them out on the road.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Upper management at almost any company around here is just over the six figure mark at most. Doctors and lawyers at the top of their game are making just over 6 figures. While it is still a significant amount of money, we are talking about the top 1-3% of earners in our community. You probably could count the number of people earning that on one hand in the county that I work in and county I live in which are adjacent to one another and have a combined population of 50,000.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)Here in Los Angeles, a corporate manager with 10 years of experience can expect about 100k. Starting salaries for doctors (GPs) right out of residency at Kaiser is 160k.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Definitely lower cost of living compared to Los Angeles. I suppose that may have something to do with lower salaries.
Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #40)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)The other way is to take a job on K St. for a NPO that's an NPO in name only...my best friend worked briefly for an organization that was entirely funded by a foreign nation to "promote strong relations between _____ and the United States, its government and its people." (read: propagandize on the behalf of a pending FTA between the USA and that nation.)
The paycheck was in the high six-figures and he wasn't even an director-level employee.
CrispyQ
(36,437 posts)Wow, you make $14,000 AFTER taxes and you only donate $25 to charity? Wow.
madinmaryland
(64,931 posts)CrispyQ
(36,437 posts)Unbelievable greed.
YeahSureRight
(205 posts)Then I saw how far $25k went with a wife, not all that far but we made it but always broke. As I slowly made more money my bills slowly increased
..rent in better place, buy a car, need suits for the job now, etc
..it still seemed like we are always broke, we had good HC and a 401k so that was taken right out but my income had doubled and it seemed like we were living pay check to pay check still.
One of the very strange things that happen is that as you make more you tend to spend more. Case in point I used to give $5 a week to the local food bank and $5 was a meal to us but others had nothing to eat so we always try to pay it forward so to speak. Now I dont think twice about giving $50 a week to the food bank. Eventually it all becomes relative.
I am not rich nor poor but doing pretty good, better than many these days , I have worked hard and had some good luck and bad luck along the way as we all do in life.
Should one be poor mouthing it if you make over $100k per year, no you should not; even in an expensive place $100k is good money and you will not be living in the hood so to speak. You may feel broke all the time but you will not be alone.
It is human nature to want better for ourselves and family and that $25k a year salary well that is crap wages today but millions would stand on line for that kind of check and be very happy to get it.
If you make good money $100k+ and feel poor well join the club you really are not poor at all whether you realize it or not.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,399 posts)my wife and I- not changing anything about our lifestyles- would feel set for life he we jumped into the 6-digit figures.
FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)I wonder if people living in countries like Mexico making the median income of about $5K a year would see people here the way we see the dcurbanmom people. I know people living four people to a one bedroom apartment and people living in 10,000+ sq ft houses. Each of them wishes that they were at least one notch higher on the income scale.
I think research shows that happiness correlates positively with increases in income, but that they effect drops off significantly beyond something like $75K/yr income. My guess is that once you have sufficient income to be secure in your ability to obtain food, shelter, health care, and clothing, the improvements from having more don't make nearly as much of a difference.