If this isn't about Snowden, why do you care if he goes free?

[Recursion]

If the important thing is that people talk about the shitty, shitty laws that govern surveillance, mission accomplished. People are talking about it. Senators have gotten off their ass and started to ask the NSA to clarify that Congress actually passed the laws that they passed 5 and 12 years ago. It's stupid, but it's the first step towards getting the House and Senate to actually fix the awful laws.

So, the conversation is started. As far as I've seen everybody agrees the laws as they stand need to be fixed, except for some jackass Republicans who are pretty much lost causes anyways. Now, given that this isn't about Snowden... why do you care that he goes free?

[cali]

1. that's simple for me: I don't trust the United States not to torture him as

Manning was tortured and I'm unconvinced he could get a fair trial.

[Recursion]

2. Really?

Sounds crazy to me, but ok.

[cali]

8. what sounds crazy about it?

Many reputable rights organizations have classified Manning's treatment as torture. And why is it crazy to doubt he could get a fair trial?

[Recursion]

9. I don't call suicide watch torture, though I think the government's treatment of him is awful

But then again Snowden can't be held in a military prison to begin with.

[gcomeau]

3. People want criminals in jail on general principles.

What part of that is difficult to follow?

[MADem]

4. If this isn't about Snowden, why would anyone care if he was brought to justice and

tried for the theft and transfer of government property?

Congress makes law. Why is "everyone" (and I use that term loosely, because it isn't true) blaming Obama, when the President is not a legislator?

[Recursion]

5. I don't particularly, to be honest

I'm only about 95% convinced that he actually exists, for that matter.

[dkf]

6. He is a subtext. I don't think people should be punished for a much needed service to the country.

I admit I feel invested in his well being. I wish I could be as brave and self sacrificing.

[Recursion]

11. But the problem is whistleblowing didn't work

Whistleblowing has a procedure, which Snowden didn't do. There have been multiple NSA whistleblowers, and nobody cared.

OTOH, Snowden, apparently in the course of committing a crime for which he might face several years in prison if convicted, released information to the public that started a much-needed conversation.

That conversation isn't about Snowden, so I don't see why it should be tied up with special criminal dispensations for him. I'd love for him to find asylum somewhere so that all this bullshit can end and stop distracting from the issue of changing the laws about surveillance. OTOH, if he gets busted for dissemination I'm also not going to shed a huge number of tears.

[dkf]

14. Contractors are specifically exempt. There were no legal avenues.

And Wyden etal knew, but were powerless. When he tried to expose in public testimony they were lied to. Other whistleblowers who did exactly what they were supposed to end up getting charged. There was no other way. All avenues lead to prosecution.

[bowens43]

7. because prosecuting whistle blowers is reprehensible.

[MNBrewer]

10. What an idiotic question.

[Fumesucker]

12. Because the M$M would sooner be bastinadoed than talk about policy

If Snowden is squirreled away the press will drop the entire subject like it was a stinky plutonium sqirting skunk.

[Recursion]

13. Curse the American attention span

Sigh. You have a good point.

[Bonhomme Richard]

15. I have never put anybody on my ignore list but.....

you are really pushing me to my limits.
As much as you try this isn't about him.

[Recursion]

16. Ummm... that's what I said. It's about surveillance

The conversation has been started, which is good. Congress may finally get off its ass and do something about these shitty laws.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. I see far more threads on how evil Snowden is than threads about how the laws need to be fixed

The conversation on the surveillance is being drowned out by the endless threads about Snowden - most of which are started by the people who hate him. One anti-Snowdener started 70 threads on him in the first 2 weeks or so.

If you could persuade those people to stop trying to make this about Snowden, you'd do us all a real service.