To those who say "DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT!":

[baldguy]

[Arctic Dave]

1. Yeah.

I still don't trust the government.

[niyad]

2. I do not, and have not, trusted the politicians for a very long time. not much trust in the

police departments, either. firefighters and emt's are a different matter entirely.

and on that note: rash, shut your ignorant, hatred-spewing, ugly, lying mouth.

[awoke_in_2003]

68. I agree fully...

especially about Rush STFU

[Throd]

3. I'm capable of respecting firefighters and not trusting the government at the same time.

[840high]

66. So am I.

[cantbeserious]

4. Firefighters Are One Notable Exception To The Litany Of Abuse That Citizens Suffer From Government

eom

[LWolf]

88. No.

There are teachers, social workers, etc., etc., etc..

Politicians are the exception when it comes to whom to trust in government.

[Llewlladdwr]

5. You know the Government is more than just firefighters, right?

So yeah, I still say "Don't trust the Government".

[baldguy]

32. Firefighters are part of the govt - so, you're saying you don't trust firfighters.

[Llewlladdwr]

48. Okay sure, I don't trust firefighters.

Is it really your contention that if one trusts one member of an organization you *must* trust every other member? Seems a bit naive to me...

[Herlong]

77. Yes.

[socialist_n_TN]

6. Firefighters don't fuck with my civil liberties.....

like governments and their hired thugs do.

[morningfog]

78. Some do. Firefighters are one gov group I like

And respect. What they do is incredible. There are, however, many stories out there about firefighters that entered a home and then used their presence to report evidence of criminal activity.

There are very few I trust in the government. Trust is not a requisite for respect and appreciation.

[Cleita]

7. Actually, it's only the Republicans elected to office that I don't trust.

I know the rank and file civil servant tries to do a good job. Heck I was one at one time myself.

[chervilant]

8. Patriotism is the last refuge

to which a scoundrel clings.

(Bob Dylan, paraphrasing Samuel Johnson.)

(You don't mean to denigrate those of us who criticize the corporatist politicians infesting our government du jour, do you?)

[dennis4868]

9. There's always going

to beca few bad apples in any organization but overall I definitely trust the government, especially the federal government

[markpkessinger]

13. Glance over this list of federal scandals . . .

. . . and tell me again exactly why you think the federal government is so deserving of your trust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_scandals_in_the_United_States#Executive_Branch_8

[baldguy]

30. If the guy who sits next to you at work, starts a fight in a bar & steals a car...

Do you believe that you should take the blame for that?

[dennis4868]

84. The federal government

Is huge and so it's not surprising there are scandals but that doesn't mean on the whole that the government can't be trusted. I certainly do.

[Llewlladdwr]

14. Really?

I work for the Federal Government and I don't trust them.

'Course, a lot of that has to do with the 20% pay cut I'm taking starting next week.

Yay, sequester....

[dennis4868]

85. Your pay cut is a result

Of a dysfunctional congress.

[bahrbearian]

10. When did fire fighters pass laws ? When did they Start a War, When did they start spying ?

[baldguy]

28. So, you hate FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ, Carter and Clinton, in addition to Obama, too?

[bahrbearian]

38. Your Losing It , Dude.

[baldguy]

43. They all passed laws, started wars, & started spying - so they can't be trusted.

ACCORDING TO YOUR DEFINITION.

[bahrbearian]

47. Not all laws are good, wars are bad, spying on citzens is wrong. You are losing it.

[bahrbearian]

49. your definition of Fire Fighters is much like Rush Limpballs

[840high]

67. Not trusting does not

mean hating them.

[baldguy]

69. For Snowden, Greenwald, Ron Paul, and their fans it does,

[Downwinder]

11. I won't trust them on a DNR since one of them told me,

"We don't pay any attention to that."

[Oilwellian]

12. Nice try

But there's no comparison between America's firefighters, and the fascists who are leading this country to ruin.

[baldguy]

24. I'm not *comparing* firefighters to the type of people who lead this country.

I'm saying firefighters ARE type of people who lead this country. Public servants all.

[bahrbearian]

39. Did they write the Patriot Act?

I doubt 10% of them support it like you do.

[Fumesucker]

15. Strawmen make the best bonfires

[neverforget]

18. +1

[baldguy]

23. Uh oh. Now you've done it.

No firefighters, remember?

[Fumesucker]

26. Flamethrowers and strawmen..

What could possibly go wrong?

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. +2! Really, this OP stinks of absolutism without facts to back it up. If: firemen! Then: Gov good.

[zeemike]

72. That is the word I was looking for.

Absolutism...which is akin to authoritarianism in it's nature...With us or against us.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

16. Is there anyone so stupid as to trust the government?

Hi there, Paulbot fool (yes, jury, he called me both of those words, along with an insinuation that I'm a Nazi sympathizer). Am I to take it that you DO trust the government, but you don't trust simple facts presented to you ad nauseum from 20 different sources? Why would anyone listen to your opinion, when you are not able to deal in the truth? Your word is of no value.

[baldguy]

22. So, shoot the firefighters when they come to save you. Right?

If you don't like being taggad as a Paulbot, stop promoting his bullshit. Like: "Is there anyone so stupid as to trust the government?" That's pure Paulbot bullshit.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

25. Sorry, fool. No dice.

[bahrbearian]

50. It always come to shooting someone. Crazy

[99Forever]

17. Firefighters aren't tracking law-abiding citizens...

... phone calls or hacking their email.

That's some stinking horseshit you're trying to peddle there.

Nice industrial sized bucket of fail, tho.

Ya got that goin' for ya.

[baldguy]

19. Niether is the NSA.

Not according to the docs Snowden stole, anyway.

[bahrbearian]

27. You've seen the Doc's that Snowden stole. please do tell? The NAS is very interested.

[99Forever]

36. Ahhh bullshit.

There must be some boots that need licking somewhere.

[bahrbearian]

40. Back at the Oval office.

[rhett o rick]

20. Can you spell S T R A W M A N ? So you say you support the government! Did you support Bush's

government? The intelligence agencies are exactly the same. Do you trust them now but didnt then?

[Tien1985]

21. I'm in semi rural Maine

Almost every town is a volunteer brigade. Regardless, trying to make trusting/not trusting the govt a black and white issue isn't going to somehow "prove" everyone should trust the govt.

Power corrupts, therefore, always call for more transparency, never trust power locked away behind closed doors. It seems like this whole discussion gets personal. It doesn't have to be. It doesn't matter who is in charge, they need constant, transparent oversight.

[davidn3600]

29. Comparing firefighters to the NSA? Really?

I trust firefighters...I dont trust the fucking NSA.

[Bonobo]

31. You know the ones killed recently were volunteers, right?

I also am a volunteer firefighter. We are not part of the government.

[baldguy]

35. If you're like any other volunteer fire company, you still get funding from taxes.

Federal grants, state funds, local fees. Equipment, training, etc. etc. You don't get the cash for a $500k pumper by having a bake sale.

[galileoreloaded]

53. no, uusally they are donated by a larger department.

i think you should do the right thing and delete your OP. this is lunacy.

[baldguy]

57. Larger Dept, hm. And where do they get the money?

That's right - taxes.

But seriously, Homeland Security has a grant program open to all local fire departments.

http://www.fema.gov/welcome-assistance-firefighters-grant-program

Of course, it's a pain to dig through and find out what you're going to be eligible for, the application process takes several months to go through, and they may not have the funds available at the end. But if they do, it goes a long way toward covering any funding gaps you may have.

Of course, if you don't trust the govt...

[Bonobo]

58. That doesn't make me any more part of the government than

a school, community center, homeless shelter or dozens of other groups that receive tax funding.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. "History has tried to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians.

"History has tried to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of government couldn't be wise." Mark Twain

[progressoid]

34. Yes, it's a black and white world.

There are no grey areas.

[JoePhilly]

41. Yes ... for those who are claiming ...

that we are now living in a police state, or under a fascist / totalitarian government, those are the only choices.

Think about it ... if we live under the scary government some on DU are claiming (pick your favorite scary word), why would we trust that same government with a single payer health care system?

A fascist government would use the information it obtained about our medical situation against us. So, we on DU would/should be against letting the government have any interaction with our medical care.

[JoePhilly]

82. You ever seek mental health treatment?

I'm not saying your response suggests that ... but it occurs to me that if we live in a police state, surely such a government would be very interested in your mental health history .. or your history of addiction ... or sexually transmitted diseases ... or any number of things.

Let's face it ... if the government is listening to your phone calls, obviously they will be crawling through your medical records.

Let's say a leader in the Occupy movement has been addicted to drugs at some time. Might make it easy to blackmail them.

Some one posted the other day that the FBI wanted to KILL some of the Occupy leaders. Blackmailing them with aspects of their medical history would be much easier.

[freshwest]

86. I'm aware of all that, and now we are done.

[Skittles]

42. I keep thinking it cannot get any sillier but then it does

it's like thinking repukes cannot sink any lower

[hughee99]

37. If the NSA tells us "metadata" (or more) is critical to putting out wildfires,

should we believe them?

[cali]

44. I'm sorry but this is supremely silly

trusting the fire department and trusting the CIA are two entirely different propositions.

[L0oniX]

45. False equivalency ...epic fail.

[Scootaloo]

51. "The government" refers to those that govern

Firefighters are public employees whose pay comes from the coffers of the government, but they are themselves not "the government," any more than the lady shuffling papers at the DMV between eight and four is.

personally I prefer, "establish a government you trust" over "don't trust the government." Similar message, without the nihilistic overtone

[galileoreloaded]

52. I hope to god

that whatever you do for a living has no decision making authority over others.

you're professed opinions are....disturbing.

[LittleBlue]

74. Results of your Jury Service

At Tue Jul 2, 2013, 07:47 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I hope to god
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3153925

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Nasty personal attack on the OP. Whether or not you agree with the poster here, he should articulate his political views rather than attacking the character and abilities of the OP. This makes DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 2, 2013, 07:50 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Just an opinion, nothing else.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Nasty. No reason for this crap.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Almost left it but I was an attack of sorts.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: His criticism is of the OP's opinion, not of the OP.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I was juror 6

[pampango]

54. "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." Move over, Ronnie.

Some seem to be saying that he had a point about trust in government and its intentions.

[Hydra]

55. Man, this is a bad post

Quit using people who died trying to make a difference as a shield for the people who are getting fat off us and breaking the law.

This fails worse than your posts about how we shouldn't have single payer and need to join the teabaggers because we don't support the gov't in breaking the law.

[Hooray for Pepe]

56. The heroism of firefighters eases my concern about NSA spying

I now trust the entire US Government.

[dogknob]

59. I don't trust the people currently IN government; we need to take control OF our government n/t

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

60. TPTB can only dream of being as honorable, and our brave fire fighters come from US the 99%

FYI

[baldguy]

62. FYI most of the people in govt come from the 99% too.

And they're usually good Democrats & good union members, too. No wonder you distrust them.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

63. you got that right, and they are not part of the 0.1% that we disagree with

[NRaleighLiberal]

61. Wow.

[scarletwoman]

64. Oh, ffs! Do fireman pass laws? Do firemen control any of the 3 branches of government?

Do firemen take campaign contributions from lobbyists? Do firemen confirm judges and cabinet appointments? Do firemen do anything that could be remotely construed as governing?

What a fucking idiotic post. And the fifteen idiots who rec'd it ought to be ashamed of themselves for falling for such a mind-numbingly stupid construct.

Feh!

[DeSwiss]

65. If ''the government'' were just firemen......

...I wouldn't have a problem. They actually help people.

- As opposed to those police state bastards whose existence is a violation of everything our Constitution is supposed to stand for. You can have those assholes.

[Herlong]

70. If I don't trust the notion that I will wake up in the morning

If I don't trust the notion that I will wake up in the morning, why should I trust the government?

I trust that in America, I can shout from the roof top, ON that one day that I DID stand up,

and did NOT stand down.

THAT is what I trust.

I trust my ONE vote.

THAT is what I trust.

Taking my next sip of beer?

THAT is what I trust. Government.

Trust?

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Firefighters are not, and never were the problem. POLITICIANS are.

And to that I say... FUCK POLITICIANS.

I trust none of them. None. Of. Them.

You asked someone upthread if they trusted LBJ. Who gives a fuck? He's dead. D.E.A.D. Oh, and all he did was lie us into Vietnam via the Gulf of Tonkin (non)incident.

[niyad]

73. I was going to post something about whatever you are smoking. on second thought, keep it up,

because I can really use the laughs tonight.

[MisterP]

75. depends on the agency or department now, wouldn't it?

[Purveyor]

76. What a bullshit, piece of shit post this is. Just saying... eom

[wtmusic]

81. +1 for many reasons.

[think]

79. I don't think I've ever met a liberal who didn't respect firemen and their unions

[whatchamacallit]

83. You seem to be taking a run at the record for consecutive dumb posts

I think you've got a shot.

[LWolf]

87. Firefighters aren't politicians.

When people don't trust "government," it is usually the politicians they don't trust.

Which I'm sure you knew.