HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » 26 Sens.: NSA is relying ...

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:07 PM

26 Sens.: NSA is relying on a "secret body of law" to collect massive amounts of data on US citizens

A bipartisan group of 26 US senators has written to intelligence chiefs to complain that the administration is relying on a "secret body of law" to collect massive amounts of data on US citizens.

The senators accuse officials of making misleading statements and demand that the director of national intelligence James Clapper answer a series of specific questions on the scale of domestic surveillance as well as the legal justification for it.

In their strongly-worded letter to Clapper, the senators said they believed the government may be misinterpreting existing legislation to justify the sweeping collection of telephone and internet data revealed by the Guardian.

"We are concerned that by depending on secret interpretations of the Patriot Act that differed from an intuitive reading of the statute, this program essentially relied for years on a secret body of law," they say.

...

In a press statement, the group of senators added: "The recent public disclosures of secret government surveillance programs have exposed how secret interpretations of the USA Patriot Act have allowed for the bulk collection of massive amounts of data on the communications of ordinary Americans with no connection to wrongdoing."

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/senators-james-clapper-nsa-data-collection


Senators signing the letter:

Ron Wyden (D-Or), Mark Udall (D-Co), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Patrick Leahy (D-Vt), Mark Kirk (R-Il), Dick Durbin (D-Il), Tom Udall (D-NM), Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), Jon Tester (D-Mt), Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Dean Heller (R- Nev),Mark Begich (D-Alaska), Bernie Sanders (I-Vt), Patty Murray (D-Wash), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Al Franken (D-Minn), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Chris Coons (D-Del), Maria Cantwell (D-Wash), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn), Max Baucus (D-Mont), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass), Martin Heinrich (D-NM), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisc) and Mike Lee (R-Utah).

128 replies, 13321 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 128 replies Author Time Post
Reply 26 Sens.: NSA is relying on a "secret body of law" to collect massive amounts of data on US citizens (Original post)
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 OP
Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #1
frylock Jul 2013 #33
totodeinhere Jul 2013 #66
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #77
lunasun Jul 2013 #90
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #2
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #9
quinnox Jul 2013 #3
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #10
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #78
lark Jul 2013 #101
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #102
lark Jul 2013 #105
kentuck Jul 2013 #4
msongs Jul 2013 #5
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #11
leftstreet Jul 2013 #93
Lonr Jul 2013 #107
valerief Jul 2013 #126
Earth_First Jul 2013 #6
cantbeserious Jul 2013 #30
Jefferson23 Jul 2013 #7
zeemike Jul 2013 #24
Jefferson23 Jul 2013 #36
truebluegreen Jul 2013 #46
Jefferson23 Jul 2013 #49
The Last Dem. Jul 2013 #125
ChaoticTrilby Jul 2013 #54
suffragette Jul 2013 #94
ChaoticTrilby Jul 2013 #115
Jefferson23 Jul 2013 #100
ChaoticTrilby Jul 2013 #116
KoKo Jul 2013 #8
L0oniX Jul 2013 #63
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #12
winter is coming Jul 2013 #51
idwiyo Jul 2013 #59
siligut Jul 2013 #60
Go Vols Jul 2013 #96
totodeinhere Jul 2013 #67
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2013 #72
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #83
lark Jul 2013 #103
kenny blankenship Jul 2013 #13
Yavapai Jul 2013 #108
G_j Jul 2013 #14
whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #15
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #19
whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #20
WillyT Jul 2013 #16
Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #17
rhett o rick Jul 2013 #79
Matariki Jul 2013 #18
forestpath Jul 2013 #22
idwiyo Jul 2013 #27
sibelian Jul 2013 #50
Octafish Jul 2013 #95
BlueCaliDem Jul 2013 #127
Rex Jul 2013 #21
quinnox Jul 2013 #23
Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #25
idwiyo Jul 2013 #29
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #38
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #26
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #76
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #82
think Jul 2013 #28
Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #31
truebluegreen Jul 2013 #47
Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #48
FairWinds Jul 2013 #32
davidn3600 Jul 2013 #34
Apophis Jul 2013 #35
Brewinblue Jul 2013 #39
Apophis Jul 2013 #40
DeSwiss Jul 2013 #37
HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #41
Bonhomme Richard Jul 2013 #42
leveymg Jul 2013 #43
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #88
leveymg Jul 2013 #98
grahamhgreen Jul 2013 #44
Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #45
sibelian Jul 2013 #52
ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #53
DirkGently Jul 2013 #55
ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #56
Mnemosyne Jul 2013 #57
Liberal_in_LA Jul 2013 #58
reusrename Jul 2013 #61
AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #62
L0oniX Jul 2013 #64
intheflow Jul 2013 #65
Hydra Jul 2013 #68
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #73
AzDar Jul 2013 #69
Enthusiast Jul 2013 #70
yurbud Jul 2013 #71
NorthCarolina Jul 2013 #112
yurbud Jul 2013 #114
DevonRex Jul 2013 #74
FiveGoodMen Jul 2013 #75
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #81
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #80
Jackpine Radical Jul 2013 #84
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #85
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #87
Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #86
lumberjack_jeff Jul 2013 #89
limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #91
Go Vols Jul 2013 #113
suffragette Jul 2013 #92
aquart Jul 2013 #97
Go Vols Jul 2013 #99
Agony Jul 2013 #104
sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #106
marions ghost Jul 2013 #109
westerebus Jul 2013 #110
Hubert Flottz Jul 2013 #111
westerebus Jul 2013 #119
toby jo Jul 2013 #117
Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #118
Douglas Carpenter Jul 2013 #120
blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #121
silvershadow Jul 2013 #122
jonthebru Jul 2013 #123
Warren DeMontague Jul 2013 #124
silvershadow Jul 2013 #128

Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:10 PM

1. Almost all Dems. Thank you! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:40 PM

33. and no Pauls!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:15 AM

66. Actually getting four Republicans to join a predominantly Democratic group is quite

significant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:56 PM

77. And Senator Frankin is included. He must have reconsidered. nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:39 PM

90. R+D Sens from Illinois signed this

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:11 PM

2. What "secret body of law" allows an official to lie to Congress with the "least untruthful" answer?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:28 PM

9. I'm very surprised to see the senators use the term "secret body of law".

It's not something I've ever seen before, from any member of Congress.

And that "least untruthful" statement is fascinating. Stealth-think is kind of psycho.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:12 PM

3. Those damn Paul-bots and libertarians!

 




Good for them, and nice to see some Democrats standing for civil liberties, for a change.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:36 PM

10. Yep, good to see them taking a strong public stand on this.

Between the lines I get the feeling that they too, are getting a little frightened at what they created.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:56 PM

78. The list is getting longer. nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #78)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 05:35 PM

101. Who else signed?

I'm hoping Sen. Nelson from FL is one of the additions. I know there's no hope that Rubio would sign, he's such a RW boy toy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #101)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 05:37 PM

102. Sorry, I meant that these 26 are additions to the list of prominent people looking for further

 

investigations. It's getting crowded under the bus.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rhett o rick (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 06:01 PM

105. OK, thanks for the clarification.

As one of those who is very concerned about our govenment lying and prying, the wheels have been firmly on my back as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:12 PM

4. What a bunch of radicals!!

Good thing they are in the minority.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:13 PM

5. time to repeal the patriot act nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:36 PM

11. Yes, it is! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:51 PM

93. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 06:52 PM

107. Past time

 

way past time for this POS legislation to be repealed!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to msongs (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:20 AM

126. It's always been time to repeal it. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:13 PM

6. Obviously a group of ungrateful, racist, turncoat Democrats...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Earth_First (Reply #6)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:32 PM

30. Careful, Careful - The Fiction Might Not Set You Free.

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:14 PM

7. Shout out to my Senator Blumenthal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:14 PM

24. Not to brag but

Both of my senators (NM) are on that list...well yes I guess I will brag.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to zeemike (Reply #24)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:47 PM

36. Well, I would too if I were you!



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:47 PM

46. And my Senator Mark Udall

 

who has been waving his arms about this for years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to truebluegreen (Reply #46)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:15 PM

49. Absolutely, kudos!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to truebluegreen (Reply #46)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:11 AM

125. yes!

I know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:52 PM

54. And both of my (female!) Washington senators are on the list as well.

DEFINITELY bragging. And shamelessly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChaoticTrilby (Reply #54)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:55 PM

94. A belated welcome to you from a fellow Washingtonian

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to suffragette (Reply #94)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:20 PM

115. Thanks for the welcome!

This'll always be my home.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ChaoticTrilby (Reply #54)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 04:55 PM

100. Brag away! It is a pleasure to do so, isn't it? n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #100)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:22 PM

116. Indeed, it is!

:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:25 PM

8. Some from the NYT on this reported yesterday:



NYT-June 30th

"Infrastructure analysts like Mr. Snowden, in other words, are not just looking for electronic back doors into Chinese computers or Iranian mobile networks to steal secrets. They have a new double purpose: building a target list in case American leaders in a future conflict want to wipe out the computers’ hard drives or shut down the phone system.

Mr. Snowden’s collection of pilfered N.S.A. documents has cast an awkward light on officials’ past assurances to Congress and the public about their concern about Americans’ privacy.

It was only in March that James R. Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, told a Senate committee that the N.S.A. did not collect data on millions of Americans. Mr. Snowden’s records forced Mr. Clapper to backtrack, admitting his statement was false.

Last week, two senators challenged even the accuracy of a fact sheet prepared by the N.S.A. to counter Mr. Snowden’s claims about the phone data and Internet collection programs. Agency officials did not defend themselves; the fact sheet simply disappeared, without explanation, from the agency’s Web site.


Newly disclosed slides from an N.S.A. PowerPoint presentation on the agency’s Prism database of Internet data, posted on Saturday by The Washington Post, reveal that the F.B.I. plays a role as middleman between the N.S.A. and Internet companies like Google and Yahoo. The arrangement provides the N.S.A. with a defense, however nominal, against claims that it spies on United States soil.

Even in the unaccustomed spotlight after the N.S.A. revelations, intelligence officials have concealed more than they have revealed in careful comments, fearful of alerting potential eavesdropping targets to agency methods. They invariably discuss the N.S.A.’s role in preventing terrorist attacks, an agency priority that the public can easily grasp.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/us/job-title-key-to-inner-access-held-by-snowden.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KoKo (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:51 AM

63. Well it's a good thing the military is blocking the Guardian ...now they have to block the NYT too?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:37 PM

12. Did you notice the absence of the name of a senior Senator, Sen Harry Reid (D-NV)?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #12)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:20 PM

51. I'm sure that has nothing whatsoever to do with the location of the new center. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to winter is coming (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 09:57 PM

59. Ouch! That's harsh!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to winter is coming (Reply #51)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:26 PM

60. Mike Lee (R-Utah) is on there

But my suspicion is that he is acting as a mole in that group, to keep any discussion on Mormons down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:16 PM

96. Utah Data Center

The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.


http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:19 AM

67. Isn't it ironic that the senator from Nevada who signed off on this is Republican

Dean Heller? I loath the man and I don't necessarily believe that he has sincere motives over this issue. But it is significant I think that this is a bipartisan group. And Dick Durbin, number two in the Democratic leadership is on board even though Milktoast Harry is not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to totodeinhere (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:34 PM

72. Yes. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:08 PM

83. I'm sad not to see my senator, Barbara Mikulski, on there too (D-MD) nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 05:39 PM

103. Yep

Disgusting who isn't on there, like almost all Repugs and the DLCers. Disgusting that the Dems keep making Reid the head of the Senate, he's no progressive, that's for sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:40 PM

13. "secret law" is not law. Period.

That is all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 09:16 PM

108. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse..."

 

So, we probably already have done so.

What did the Ice Tea song say? Freedom of speech - just watch what you say."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:41 PM

14. Fuck that Greenwald!!

oh wait... we knew this all along... no wait...Snowden went to China...no wait...
never mind, I'm in over my head...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:43 PM

15. Maybe someone should send them a Greenwald smear

to change their opinions of right and wrong.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to whatchamacallit (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:50 PM

19. Somebody should "educate" them on why they are so wrong.

Poor, clueless Senators. They just don't understand the law, as well as net-dwellers do. Just because they enacted it means nothing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:44 PM

16. K & R !!!

 


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:46 PM

17. Time to throw 26 senators under the bus.

 

They all must be racist paulbots or something.

Given that these 26 agree that the government has been conducting a massive domestic surveillance program, I expect certain prominent posters here to be posting strongly worded ops in unambiguous opposition to these programs and in support of our 4th amendment rights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:59 PM

79. I think they all have girl friends that are pole-dancers. nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:47 PM

18. "strongly-worded letter"



Strongly worded letters lets it seem like they are doing something without actually having to change policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:58 PM

22. +1

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:30 PM

27. +2

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:17 PM

50. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:05 PM

95. NSA probably has on file what he really thinks.

Wyden and Udall have been on the case for a long time. The problems stem from the lack of support from their colleagues on both sides of the aisle and down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Matariki (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 10:35 AM

127. That "strongly-worded letter" is the political equivalent to a pacifier for loud wailing babies.

But giving lip-service {even in writing} is no substitute for passing policies to eradicate the problem. What a bunch of cheap talk {even if it's in writing}.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 03:57 PM

21. Congress packs away certain things that would get the serfs pissed off

 

and so they deem in classified for 50 years so everyone will be long dead after the revelation comes out. Actually that has happened and then they extended the hiding of documents for another 50 years. Strange how that works? Yes they spy on you and yes they keep records. And if they don't want anyone outside of their elite bubble seeing certain documents, they bury them in time.

At least SOME still have enough brains to say no to the insanity of endless power and money.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:09 PM

23. Kick for those who want to start digging up dirt and looking through boxes on these "unpatriotic"

 

and disloyal Senators and Congressmen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to quinnox (Reply #23)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:17 PM

25. I heard some of them supported the Iraq war. nt.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #25)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:31 PM

29. Anyone with pole dancing girlfriends?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to idwiyo (Reply #29)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:54 PM

38. Hehehehehehehe......

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:30 PM

26. Well worth reading the entire article.

The 26 senators pose a number of questions to the NSA. Let's watch and see whether they get the PUBLIC answers they request.

The Constitution did not envisage a secret bureau in the government to collect data on the routine communications and newspaper subscriptions of ordinary Americans. Not there. No way. And this is not necessary in order to protect Americans. I fact, it makes us very vulnerable because that database could be tapped into by a foreign power. What an absurd program.

That database, if tapped by an enemy would make it easy to figure out who was a government agent, who was in the military or in a security position. Honestly. There is no good to come from this program.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:53 PM

76. Imagine the blackmail opportunities for a hostile foreign gov't.

There anin't nobody (except me, of course) who doesn't have dark, shameful secrets. There is nobody (except me, of course) who is above the potential for blackmail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #76)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:06 PM

82. Precisely! The people who support this just do not understand

it. They just don't think outside the box. This program, the concept of it is so beyond their comprehension that they just acquiesce.

Imagine a database with all that information about Americans there for the picking. All a hostile nation or company or individual would need would be the ability to assemble a group of hackers clever enough to open the thing up. And they would hit the jackpot of all time. All our information. I doubt that the government is looking for our credit card info, but anyone anywhere could open an account in someone's name with that info. Might not get many charges accepted.

This is so stupid I can't believe it. The people who run our governments don't really understand the magnitude of this project either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:31 PM

28. 74 Senators appear to be missing... /nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:33 PM

31. I think this might be called CYA. They're blaming this on the Admin's "interpretation" of the.....

statute, instead of admitting that it might have been bad law to begin with? If we get clarification out of this, then that's all the better, but the legislators charged with "oversight" already knew this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #31)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:52 PM

47. My Senator Mark Udall has been aware

 

of the secret "interpretation" of the law since his arrival on the oversight committee (right after his election in 2008 I believe). He has been complaining ever since without being able to divulge any specifics because, of course, it is all classified.

He's not covering his hienie, he's been trying to cover yours.

But yes, it was a terrible law to begin with, and has been interpreted to be even worse.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to truebluegreen (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:12 PM

48. Same for my Senators Weyden and Merkley they are representing me and the

 

people of Oregon and of the United States and have been pressing this issue, Weyden in particular along with Udall and attempting to make us aware of this state of affairs all along and for years now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:36 PM

32. Why Do Those . .

 

racist Senators hate America?
And more to the point, why isn't Sherrod Brown (D-OH) among them?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:42 PM

34. How about instead of writing letter they start writing new laws to stop this crap?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:42 PM

35. Strongly worded letters are worthless.

 

I won't be impressed until policy or law changes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Apophis (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:55 PM

39. New laws.

We don't really need new laws, we have the 4th Amendment. We just need a President that follows the law as written and intended, and his or her sworn duty to uphold the constitution.

We do need to dismantle the Patriot Act though. It is and always has been an utter clusterfuck and affront to democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brewinblue (Reply #39)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:05 PM

40. Touché.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 04:52 PM

37. Hurry!!! Rearrange those deck chairs!!!

 

- K&R

[center][/center]

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:17 PM

41. Who knew there were so many racist libertarian Dem Senators?

 

Even a few R's as well. My Dem Senator (Nelson) wasn't on the list, as expected. Hes an asshole.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:28 PM

42. WTF! Don't they know we all knew that for quite some time. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:30 PM

43. FISA is a "secret body of law," including key secret rulings that "legalized" universal surveillance

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:30 PM - Edit history (1)

There's a good article about FISA Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly who was instrumental in the secret 2004 ruling that gave judicial cover to Bush's President's Surveillance Program, otherwise known as NSA Stellar Wind program, and later to rulings that implemented the 2008 FISA Amendment Act that created the current PRISM program. See, http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-court-judges-upset-at-portrayal-of-collaboration-with-government/2013/06/29/ed73fb68-e01b-11e2-b94a-452948b95ca8_story.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leveymg (Reply #43)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:35 PM

88. That is a really chilling article to read.

TY, leveymg, for posting it. Very recommended.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Reply #88)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:35 PM

98. Ur Welcome.

Interesting how some of the smartest people can believe incredibly stupid things - like, by signing off on a clearly unconstitutional secret government program with zilch real oversight, a Judge is protecting freedom and strengthening the judiciary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 05:42 PM

44. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:25 PM

52. K+R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:26 PM

53. "to justify the sweeping collection of telephone and internet data revealed by the Guardian"

But, Snowden, Greenwald and the Guardian didn't reveal anything everyone didn't already know.....right? Nothing to see there, so these Senators must all be looney conspiracy theorists.

(I would hope this wasn't necessary)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:58 PM

55. Obviously they don't know that "FISA" made everything legal in "1976."


I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain how everything's finejustfine.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DirkGently (Reply #55)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:59 PM

56. Fine meaning

Fucked up, Insecure, Neurotic, and Emotional.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 08:54 PM

57. No PA Senator. Hmm. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 08:59 PM

58. kick

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:55 PM

61. Secret court says secret interpretation of secret law is legal.

 

God Bless America!

Love it or leave it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:08 AM

62. Well, I hope they like the same kind of porn I like.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:53 AM

64. Oh pffft ...the Guardian is a bunch of bunny stompers. No wonder our military blocks them.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:10 AM

65. You'd think Republicans would be all over this,

how they go on and on about Obama's unprecedented power grabs all the time. But that would mean working with Democrats, and we can't have that. Thus they prove themselves to be the hypocrites that they are. Again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to intheflow (Reply #65)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:27 AM

68. This is a Republican program

Continued by a supposedly (D) President.

Why would they complain unless they thought the program was safe. They felt safe voting against the ACA because they knew it would pass but they were safe to vote against it and criticize. This policy is an open question now- not a lot of support and a lot of heat. They need to throw support behind it or watch it sink back under the waves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hydra (Reply #68)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:41 PM

73. Even though that's very true, a few more Repubs have made public statements against NSA.

Not a lot of course, and they didn't sign the letter. I didn't expect they would though. The few who did sign are a surprise to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023141615

Jeff Flake, Lee Terry, Sensenbrenner, and a few more who were against it but made the criticism about Obama (par for the course). This was by no means comprehensive, but just a photo gallery put together by Politico. Probably just a sampling they had at hand.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 11:33 AM

69. K & R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:26 PM

70. Kicked and Recommended!

Now we will find out if this "democracy" still exists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:29 PM

71. so when will the posts start attacking their personal life and calling them glory seeking punks?

and anyone who agrees "worshippers"?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yurbud (Reply #71)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 08:30 AM

112. All in good time,

 

all in good time. The ad hominem attacks are being prepared now and will be distributed to the troops who will subsequently release them in a coordinated fashion with much high-fiving and back patting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #112)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:11 PM

114. and they won't notice that nobody gives a shit except those already inclined to dislike the targets

anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 12:42 PM

74. And the numbers don't add up to an amendment, just like in December.

In December, back when it was extended, several amendments were proposed in the Senate and all failed. Thus we have the current set of laws. Personally, I could get behind some of the proposed changes, but not all of them. Off the top of my head there was one I didn't like, about emergency situations having to be linked to an authorized ongoing investigation. I can see a new and unknown threat necessitating immediate action. So I would leave that section as is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 01:47 PM

75. There is no such thing as a secret body of law in a Democracy

Where the people rule (that's what democracy means), the people make and know the laws.

Let that sink in.

There is absolutely no such thing as a secret body of law in a democracy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #75)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:05 PM

81. And secret courts to go with it.

Secret courts that issue classified opinions that nobody can read.

It really is quite an eye-opener, when you let it sink in, as you say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:00 PM

80. Well, there goes the argument that they 'are NOT spying on Americans' - where r the usual suspects?

 

I'm sure they will ignore this just like everything else.

Thanks for sharing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #80)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:11 PM

84. They AREN"T spying. They gotta get a secret FISA warrant.

It's only metadata, it's all public anyway.

Ummm,

You're trying to make Obama look like a liar. You're a racist. You date pole dancers. Snowden is a creep. Hastings is an alcoholic druggie. What you got in those boxes in your garage?

Look--Squirrel!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #84)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:15 PM

85. Isn't it just pathetic the lengths they will go to to justify this wrong-doing!

 

I know some of it is being blinded by partisanship, but it is also due to folks being on the payroll to spread disinfo in order to disrupt.

Fortunately, DU is waaaaay smarter than the average... Squirrel!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Jackpine Radical (Reply #84)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:25 PM

87. You forgot that Snowden's a dropout.

I think that's what they hate the most.

(What squirrel? Where? Dammit, I missed it again!)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #80)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:22 PM

86. Yes, I noticed too this thread is refreshingly free of the Usual Baloney and back rollers.

Maybe they went out to lunch, or had to check their parking meters, or some such. Gee, I hope they find their way home sometime.

I'll do a "now playing" for them as encouragement.



YW

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:37 PM

89. That is high on the list of three words that should not be used together.

 

How do you give a person a public trial for violating a secret law?

You can't, of course, which leads to secret trials, which of course requires secret prisons... prisons which no doubt play Lee Greenwood tunes in the cells.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:42 PM

91. we probably shouldn't have secret laws, they make the country seem creepy. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #91)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:16 AM

113. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 02:50 PM

92. Both of my Senators for WA signed

And I am glad to see them representing us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:18 PM

97. Secret laws? Wrong for democracy. Wrong for me.


Patriot Act needs to be withdrawn in toto. Secret and known. Then vote for each security measure individually, because they need to be discussed.

HOW CAN SECRET LAW BE CONSTITUTIONAL?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 04:21 PM

99. kick

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 05:39 PM

104. Hey Max! We Need More Buses!

Kick and Rec

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 06:29 PM

106. Excellent, this gives me hope that some of our elected officials are finally feeling free to

speak out. Thanks to Snowden for freeing them to do what should have been done long ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Tue Jul 2, 2013, 10:09 PM

109. K&R

---

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 06:16 AM

110. Where the f*ck are the Senators from Virginia?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to westerebus (Reply #110)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 07:18 AM

111. And

Where the fuck are the "Senators" from West Virginia?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hubert Flottz (Reply #111)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:41 PM

119. It's down right embarrassing.

Warner and Rockefeller both sit on the intelligence committee.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 02:26 PM

117. Getting to the crux of things - good job.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 03:16 PM

118. Why is this number not 100?

 

Why not the full House rising up??

Because, select committees knew. They were informed in the Bush era. They've been informed under Obama.

I was outraged under Bush43, but I'm fresh out of outrage on this subject.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:03 PM

121. POLICE STATE

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 11:23 PM

122. Question: If all laws are passed by Congress, how can a body of law be secret? nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:45 AM

123. A link through the Guardian to the actual letter

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:49 AM

124. Sure, make it harder for the Gov't to use the Patriot Act to arrest granny for smoking weed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Waiting For Everyman (Original post)

Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:51 PM

128. I'm still waiting for an answer, so I will gladly bump this. Wish I could rec again. These Senators

 

need to be contacted by everyoneagain and again by email, snail mail, phone whatever to find more answers. If they're not getting them and acting like they are on top of things, they might face a backlash. Let them knowhow you feel, and that they are doing the right thing. (It lets them know they're on the right track and you've got their back too). Just a thought...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread