HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Trayvon Martin followed p...

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 10:47 AM

 

Trayvon Martin followed proper procedure.

We teach our children about ' stranger danger'. The schools hold seminars with law enforcement professionals for our children, our most precious resource, to help them learn to keep themselves safe. Why are some people convinced that a young scared man, fighting for his life, should have not done what he was taught to do?
We tell our kids to be wary of strangers, and rightly so. Evade,hide, run, yell, and if all else fails, fight like your life depends on it. It just may.
This is what we teach them.
http://www.kidpower.org/library/article/safety-tips-kidnapping/
http://childparenting.about.com/od/healthsafety/a/Protecting-Against-Child-Predators-Beyond-Stranger-Danger_2.htm

69 replies, 9098 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 69 replies Author Time Post
Reply Trayvon Martin followed proper procedure. (Original post)
bravenak Jun 2013 OP
lastlib Jun 2013 #1
bravenak Jun 2013 #2
Post removed Jun 2013 #3
warrior1 Jun 2013 #4
bravenak Jun 2013 #5
warrior1 Jun 2013 #6
BigD_95 Jun 2013 #7
bravenak Jun 2013 #9
countingbluecars Jun 2013 #10
FunkyLeprechaun Jun 2013 #14
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #20
yardwork Jun 2013 #47
WinkyDink Jun 2013 #62
yardwork Jun 2013 #65
lunatica Jun 2013 #33
PatrynXX Jun 2013 #41
Cha Jun 2013 #53
Nevernose Jul 2013 #68
bravenak Jun 2013 #8
senseandsensibility Jun 2013 #12
wryter2000 Jun 2013 #18
FunkyLeprechaun Jun 2013 #13
Shankapotomus Jun 2013 #17
cheapdate Jun 2013 #19
Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #37
DallasNE Jun 2013 #46
cheapdate Jun 2013 #48
secondvariety Jun 2013 #21
demwing Jun 2013 #22
Nevernose Jun 2013 #23
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #24
1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #28
louis-t Jun 2013 #39
The Wielding Truth Jun 2013 #44
flvegan Jun 2013 #11
bravenak Jun 2013 #15
Soundman Jun 2013 #32
bravenak Jun 2013 #34
Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #42
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #50
Soundman Jul 2013 #66
JDPriestly Jul 2013 #67
Soundman Jul 2013 #69
flvegan Jun 2013 #52
bravenak Jun 2013 #16
John2 Jun 2013 #25
Nevernose Jun 2013 #26
Ka hrnt Jun 2013 #27
bravenak Jun 2013 #29
Ka hrnt Jun 2013 #43
bravenak Jun 2013 #45
Ka hrnt Jun 2013 #51
bravenak Jun 2013 #55
uppityperson Jun 2013 #57
dpibel Jun 2013 #49
csziggy Jun 2013 #59
Ka hrnt Jun 2013 #61
csziggy Jun 2013 #64
John2 Jun 2013 #36
Iggo Jun 2013 #30
bravenak Jun 2013 #31
Wash. state Desk Jet Jun 2013 #35
bravenak Jun 2013 #38
John2 Jun 2013 #40
csziggy Jun 2013 #60
Cha Jun 2013 #58
Cha Jun 2013 #54
bravenak Jun 2013 #56
sofa king Jun 2013 #63

Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:19 AM

1. But he did it while being black. To a white guy. So it doesn't count.

(in case it's needed.........)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lastlib (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:22 AM

2. Just so...

 

I wish he were white that night. Just for an hour. Or that weirdos would stop following children around with unknown intentions. I have many stupid wishes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:34 AM

4. go away

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:35 AM

5. No I'm not joking.

 

I had been stalked and raped at 19 by a strange man following me home. I made it home by running, the man came back days later and climbed through the window. I wish I wouldn't have led him to my house. And I believe the unarmed teenager was yelling for help. That's what he was taught to do. Do try to curb your enthusiasm for the killer. He's alive, the kid is dead.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:37 AM

6. Sorry for the confusion, but I was talking to the person

who thinks it's ok to kill a kid he was stalking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to warrior1 (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:39 AM

7. You mean the person that was yelling for help

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:41 AM

9. That was Trayvon.

 

In my opinion. Since he was taught to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:41 AM

10. No proof that Zimmerman was yelling for help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:44 AM

14. Trayvon was yelling for help

Man, can't you at least get your head out of the sand?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

20. SORRY. STALKERS don't get to play the "I'M AFRAID NOW" card.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:29 PM

47. This is the fundamental point.

Also, wasn't Zimmerman convicted of assault on a woman, and didn't she say that he pulled the same victim story? I seem to remember that Zimmerman has done this before - assaulted somebody and then claimed that he was the victim.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yardwork (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:28 AM

62. Thank you! So...You got me curious about Z, and it's worse than you suggested. Molesting charges:

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/07/16/156864013/woman-accuses-george-zimmerman-of-molesting-her-for-years

"The recordings are investigators' interviews with a woman who claims that Zimmerman sexually abused her as a child.

"Zimmerman's defense attorney, Mark O'Mara had fought to keep these interviews from being made public, saying they were potentially prejudicial to his client's case. In a previous interview with police, the woman making the charges, known only as witness #9, charged Zimmerman 'doesn't like black people.'"

"In the newly released interviews, she repeats those allegations but also details for investigators a series of incidents in which she says Zimmerman sexually assaulted her ó beginning when she was 6 and he was 8 years old.

"She told investigators they continued until she was 16.

"O'Mara filed a motion seeking a stay of the judge's order to release the recordings, but it apparently was posted too late to stop the interview from being made public."

It's not clear whether prosecutors plan to use the allegations during Zimmerman's trial.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WinkyDink (Reply #62)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 01:12 PM

65. That's a separate case from the one I was thinking about.

I remember seeing the molestation charges and thinking that they would be difficult to prove.

There's another case of domestic assault on an adult woman, in which Zimmerman claimed to be the victim. That article is here:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-21/news/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321_1_petitions-documents-injunctions

...

Zimmerman accused the woman in his petition of cursing at and striking him, and said she refused to give him documents, including mortgage papers and car-loan documents, that belonged to him.

...

The ex-fiancťe reported that Zimmerman had "open handed smacked" her in the mouth and berated her during an argument in January 2003.

In November 2002, Zimmerman claimed his ex had assaulted him with a baseball bat after he went to a concert without her.

The same month, the woman said, Zimmerman became angry when she came home later than usual one night. He began groping her and "said he could because I was his woman," she wrote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:41 PM

33. Are you trying to make yourself look stupid?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:19 PM

41. much rather have him heard though



hardly democratic there. totally disagree of course

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:45 PM

53. Trayvon was yelling for help. Too bad that doesn't fit in with your

Zimmerman is hero agenda.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BigD_95 (Reply #7)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:43 PM

68. Are you calling Zimmerman a liar?

Because in his police interview, Zimmerman said it wasn't him screaming for help. Aired in open court today. So is Zimmerman lying about who was screaming?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to warrior1 (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:40 AM

8. Oh no, I know.

 

I was replying to the person above you. The representative from ' Concerned Friends of Zimmerman'.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:43 AM

12. Senseless? He was pefectly

coherent when the police got there and didn't even need to go to the hospital. Facts matter.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to senseandsensibility (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:54 AM

18. +1000

No amount of twisting details can change the fact that an adult stalked and shot to death an unarmed teenager.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:44 AM

13. LOL

Keep dreaming.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:53 AM

17. How do you know

Trayvon wasn't trying to stop Zimmerman from killing him? If I thought a strange person, who didn't identify himself as a cop, was reaching for a gun I'd try and punch his lights out too.

Zimmerman wanted to kill someone that night because he disobeyed orders to stop following Martin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:56 AM

19. So a kid walking home in a light rain in an unfamilar neighborhood

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:48 PM - Edit history (2)

is followed by a car being driven slowly by an unknown man for several minutes. The man, who is carrying a gun, stops the car and begins to deliberately approach the kid.

Based on his his recorded conversation with Sanford Police Department ("This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something....these assholes, they always get away." it's reasonable to assume that he approached the kid with an air of menace and hostility. At the very least, this was not an ordinary, friendly encounter on the street.

The kid tried to get away from the man, but the man, convinced the kid was a criminal (he wasn't) chased him down. The man caught up with the kid, there was a struggle, and the kid was shot in the chest and killed.

You're okay with that. I hope you and your kind are never anywhere near my kids.

(on edit : I read bravenak's complete transcript of Zimmerman's phone call to the police. It's worse than even I thought. Trayvon RAN to get away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman left his car and ran the boy down. Fuck him. Fucking vigilante murderer. I hope he gets life in prison.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cheapdate (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:45 PM

37. described very well, thanks. I hope the jury can see clearly too.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cheapdate (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:24 PM

46. Zimmerman Claims

Martin snuck up behind him and sucker punched him without warning then jumped on top of him and started pounding his head into the sidewalk.

The girlfriend talking on the phone at the time with Martin said Trayvon told her as it was unfolding that he thought that he ditched Zimmerman but he came up behind him so Martin asked "why are you following me". We don't know what Zimmerman's response was but Martin responded to that by either throwing a punch or swinging the bag with the iced tea and skittles, catching Zimmerman flush in the nose. A few seconds later Martin is heard saying "get off, get off", then a loud scream and a shot.

So why would the first blow against the concrete not have knocked Zimmerman out? And why would the medical examiner the next day not have observed swelling and bruising on the back of the head. She only noted a 2 cm and .5 cm laceration that were initially covered by a single, large bandage.

I didn't see all of Good's testimony. He described seeing a fight. Did he say he heard the gunshot or see the flash and if not why not since that is what terminated the fight.

Lastly, Zimmerman has said that at first he thought he missed Martin. If that was the case and it was Zimmerman doing the screaming why would he stop screaming if he thought he missed Martin? Zimmerman's story just has so many holes and implausible points that it just doesn't pass the smell test. And Good saying the person on top is throwing down blows MMA style doesn't support the claim Martin was pounding his head into the sidewalk. I'm sure the crime scene will be set so it will be interesting to see where the iced tea and skittles and Martin's cell are located relative to where Martin's body was found. Why that is important is because Zimmerman has claimed that Martin jumped on top of him immediately after being sucker punched. That means that both should be with 5-8 feet of Martin's body. Even the fact that Martin's body was far enough away from the sidewalk that the sidewalk wasn't in the picture of Martin's body while at least 5-6 feet of grass is showing. Why would Martin's body not be within a foot of the sidewalk? The location of Martin's body does not support Zimmerman's claim. A prosecutor will make hay with the crime scene if it shows what I expect it will show.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DallasNE (Reply #46)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 02:56 PM

48. Like a lot of people, I've got a teenage son.

I hate to think about some hostile, vigilante "hero" with a gun stalking my son some night when he's out meeting his friends, or going to a show, etc.

I haven't followed the details of the trial. Your point about the location of the body not supporting Zimmerman's claim is a good one.

I'm hoping for a guilty verdict.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:57 AM

21. Any private citizen stalking and confronting me

is going to get the same thing Zimmerman got. Probably worse, actually.

I've had it with gun tote'n pipsqueaks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:16 PM

22. wow you are a really unskillful liar

 

absolutely none of what you wrote was based on easily researched facts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:20 PM

23. Did you miss the medical report?

No indication of head smashing and little indication of nonstop punching. Zimmerman did have a half inch scratch on the back of his head. Had he a full head of hair, he wouldn't have even gotten the scratch, according to the nurse practitioner. Zimmerman was so incredibly damaged and traumatized that he showed up for work the next day, and only went to the doctor because his work wanted him checked out.

He did have a broken nose...which he declined to have treated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:22 PM

24. "He"? You mean Zimmy? nm

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:30 PM

28. Then ...

 

I guess the wanna-be neighborhood avenger kinda wasted his money; because he kinda sucked at all the MMA-training he paid for. Huh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:51 PM

39. Hmmm, "punching non-stop"?

Yeah, I remember that from the testimony-NOT.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:32 PM

44. Really? Zimmerman did not want to fight? Did Travon tell you that? Or was Travon hunted down with no

escape because he was walking while being black?Would you let up on a guy whose intent, you thought, would be to abduct, rape, or kill you. Was Zimmerman dressed as a security person so that Travon knew not to fear him? Did Zimmerman identify himself and explain his intent?If you wouldn't fight to protect yourself from such a desperately aggressive hunter what would you have done?

Zimmerman overrode the police and was pursuing with his loaded gun someone who he thought was a criminal only because he was an unfamiliar black man in this neighborhood.Travon was not a criminal, but he was being chased by a man in the dark with a gun for no reason unless it was nefarious. Zimmerman was not a cautious citizen watch person. That night he demonstrated and voiced that he was a man on a mission.While running after his prey he said, " These (blanks) always get away!". He was going to stop it. His gun gave him the courage to run after Travon. His fear of losing control and his mission made him use it.

Travon's only chance would have been to fight for his life. Zimmerman may have been overpowered, but Travon should not have been put in a fight for his life when he was just walking steps from his father's girlfriend's home. Zimmerman killed someone who was trying to escape a possible predator. Zimmerman had no right to have pursued Travon, kill him then act as if he were the one unjustly harmed and in defense of his life using the (open season on anyone you want)" Stand your Ground" defense.

Zimmerman's actions and this tragic death are the reasons why people given any power or conceived power must be carefully and rigorously trained to protect themselves and the innocent, and those with a over inflated sense of power or rage or vigilantism should not be emboldened by badly conceived and written laws like SYG.

What a mess the Republican Conservative Fools have thrown us into!

People do kill people... when they use guns. Ugh! What a mess. Let's try and keep these fools as far away from power as possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:43 AM

11. Wait...so I'm clear, you're saying that Trayvon

ran, trying to evade him? Those are your words. Is that what he did? If so, I don't know what happened such that Tubby McZimJob got his hands on him.

Not taking sides, just pointing out that people saying stupid things in regards to this case takes away from what actually happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:49 AM

15. He said to the operator, " he's running"

 

Zimmerman:

Weíve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and thereís a real suspicious guy. Itís Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like heís up to no good or heís on drugs or something. Itís raining and heís just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. Heís here now Ö heís just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

Heís just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:

Now heís staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said thatís 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

Thatís the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

Heís near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now heís coming toward me. Heís got his hands in his waist band.

And heís a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

Heís got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Somethingís wrong with him. Yep, heís coming to check me out.

Heís got something in his hands. I donít know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

Weíve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:

OK.

These assholes. They always get away.

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher:

OK, so itís on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, donít turn and make a left.

Heís running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:

Heís running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that heís headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[It sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, ĎF-ing coonsí at 2:22]

NOTE:

[Listen here at 1:17 for CNN's edited frame]
911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We donít need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]

Zimmerman:

George. He ran.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, whatís your last name?

Zimmerman:

Zimmerman.

911 dispatcher:

Whatís the phone number youíre calling from?

Zimmerman:

407-435-2400

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:

Yeah.

911 dispatcher:

Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?

Zimmerman:

Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes youíll see my truck. [3:10]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]

Zimmerman:

Um, I donít know. Itís a cut-through so I donít know the address. [3:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, yeah, I live here.

911 dispatcher:

OK, whatís your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

Itís a home. Itís 1950 Ė oh, crap, I donít want to give it out Ė I donít know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]

911 dispatcher:

OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]

Zimmerman:

Yeah, thatís fine. [3:43]

911 dispatcher:

Alright, George, Iíll let them know youíll meet them at Ö

Zimmerman:

Could you have them call me and Iíll tell them where Iím at? [3:49]

911 dispatcher:

OK, thatís no problem.

Zimmerman:

My number Ö youíve got it?

911 dispatcher:

Yeah, Iíve got it. 435-2400?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, you got it.

911 dispatcher:

OK, no problem. Iíll let them know to call you when theyíre in the area. [4:02]

Zimmerman:

Thanks.

911 dispatcher:

Youíre welcome.

Call ends 4:07

Above was a transcription of Zimmermanís call to 911 moments before he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. It was transcribed to the best of the transcriberís abilities, and is not meant to replace any official transcript of the call.

You can listen to the call here from 0:01 to 4:07.

Continue reading on Examiner.com George Zimmermanís 911 call transcribed Ė National unsolved cases | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed#ixzz1qGhAp7XZ
Share this:
Share
Like this:

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:40 PM

32. There you go

 

Bringing facts to the discussion. Don't you know, facts aren't needed. Zimmerman is guilty, why even bother with the trial... Facts would only to serve to confuse those who's minds are closed as tight as a steel bear trap.



Funny thing, until I educated myself, I was sure he was guilty too. The narrative seemed plausible.

I have been watching a lot of the trial live. It is a travesty that this even made it to trial.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soundman (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:42 PM

34. It must be Opposite Day.

 

I remember sixth grade too. It was fun.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soundman (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:21 PM

42. wow there is a whole brigade here

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soundman (Reply #32)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 05:30 PM

50. Wny do you think it is a travesty that the case made it to trial?

I haven't watched.

What evidence caused you to decide this should not have been tried?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #50)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:25 PM

66. Sorry about the delay in responding.

 

I arrived at my conclusion from what I learned by watching a video that some one posted here, Zimmerman's own statement, and the wiki page. From everything I could find Zimmerman's story was consistent, and there was eye witness testimony to back it up. And as I have been watching the trial live it has become more and more obvious this trial is a travesty.

Unfortunately, as I may have said before, the real sad part of all of this isn't being talked about. In the end it doesn't matter who did what. If Zimmerman had not been carrying a firearm Travon would more than likely still be alive. This situation was the perfect shit storm of 2 people making bad decisions that left one dead. All because Zimmerman was just doing what the state law said he could. And so was Travon by the way. In case it isn't clear, I am totally against conceal carry, and hand guns for that matter.

You know what the totally fucked up part is in my opinion? If one of them would have just waved or acknowledged the other as people should (again, in my opinion), I doubt it would have ever escalated. This just highlights the sad state of our cultural decline front and center.

I just finished watching the trial for the day and it was totally devastating for the prosecution. The lead detective has all but came out and said, well no, actually he pretty much did come out and say that Zimmerman is innocent. So far, bar one witness, the prosecution is backing up Zimmerman's statement of events.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Soundman (Reply #66)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 06:38 PM

67. Have the introduced the forensic reports, the autopsy reports?

Have they explained the trajectory of the bullet, the distance, etc.?

Did the entry wound reveal from what angle, height, etc. the bullet was shot?

Is that consistent with Zimmerman's story?

The problem here is that Zimmerman is the only witness who can still talk, and the police officers who testified were not present at the scene during the crime. They came afterward and talked to Zimmerman. They believed him but we cannot be certain why.

They are testifying as to their belief. There testimony is subjective. It is essentially their opinions about Zimmerman, a person who knew how to talk their language, having taken some courses, I believe that were related to law enforcement. Zimmerman could have taken them in because he spoke their language. Doesn't mean he did, but it is something to think about.

I understand that the one officer who did not believe Zimmerman has yet to testify.

But I think the trajectory of the bullet is quite important here.

Witnesses often misinterpret what they see and hear. That is why multiple witnesses are called. Also, the perpetrator has every incentive to tell the story from his viewpoint. Unfortunately, there is no one to tell the story from Trayvon's viewpoint. It is hard to find an objective truth in this situation other than from forensic and autopsy reports.

Do you think that Trayvon had the right to defend himself from someone who appeared to be following him, stalking him? If so, was the law protecting a person who is defending himself perhaps somehow applicable? Very intriguing question to which I do not know the answer.

We have no way of knowing which of the two men failed to greet the other in a friendly fashion. The only "witness" to that moment is Zimmerman and his view is too subjective to be trusted.

Seems to me that in the beginning, Trayvon ran away (Zimmerman's report to the police call center) and Zimmerman followed. Will the jury decide that Zimmerman's following Trayvon showed that he did not have reasonable fear of bodily harm? That could ruin Zimmerman's self-defense theory.

As the grandmother of a little boy, I would like to see Zimmerman and others who, carrying a gun, look at a young kid wandering home on a rainy night finally able to talk freely to a friend on the phone and see a "suspect" off the streets. That really scares me. Zimmerman reported so many people as "suspects."

I live in a gang-ridden neighborhood. I do not see suspects everywhere I go. No normal person does. Yet Zimmerman called so many times about suspects. It was kind of strange to me. And, as I said, I live in an area with gang shootings. I have called on suspicious people maybe twice in my entire life in spite of where I live. And once, I was nowhere near my neighborhood.

We shall see whether the jury wants Zimmerman off the street and decides that he stalked and murdered Trayvon out of wanton disregard for human life or whether Zimmerman was really afraid for his life and was just defending himself.

Do you think that the injuries to Trayvon and to Zimmerman are consistent with Zimmerman's story?

That also is objective evidence that will be considered and perhaps valued more highly than the subjective testimony.

The statements by Zimmerman and the officers who talked to him after the killing are very subjective. They could be but are not necessarily motivated by the desire to appear to have made the right decision.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #67)

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 07:47 PM

69. Wow, you are one fast typist.

 

I am not. I am also a deep thinker and that is primarily why I post so little. It takes me a long time to formulate an opinion unless it is pure emotion, which goes on a lot here. I am not great at quoting to answer questions so I will address yours as best I can, in order.

1: No forensics yet. I doubt anything new will be revealed. My mind is open though.

2: An eye witness for the prosecution (none the less) has confirmed that Zimmerman was on the bottom being beaten by Martin and screaming for help. He chose not to help and went in to call 911 instead.

3: Zimmerman does know the lingo, that seems obvious.

4: The officer you speak of is the one that came out and said he believed he was innocent (in so many words). The people who speak about him saying he said Zimmerman was guilty took this from the challenge interview. The challenge interview is when they did the good cop, bad cop routine. They made untrue statements to see if Zimmerman would change his story, he did not.

The bullet trajectory is important.

5: I do not think Martin had the right to assault someone he perceived as a stalker.

6: All I can say to that is Travon had roughly 3-6 minutes to run less than 60 yards to the safety of his home. If he was fearing for his life he could have been home, took a bathroom break and been watching the tube, before Zimmerman ever hung up with the police department.

7: Can't say, in my neighborhood, unknown kid strolling through the yards in the rain would be very suspicious. I would probably go with the kids on drugs thought though. We don't have a lot of break ins here.

8: Funny, some of my long term acquaintances live in the "gang areas." They profile everybody they don't know. I wish I could give you the web address of my studio, but it would reveal my name. It would take you more than thirty seconds to realize that all color tee's have been represented in this neutral territory. Red, white and blue. I know a little bit about things myself.

9: Yes I believe Zimmerman's injuries are indicative of his story. So has every prosecution witness thus far.

10: I can't know what any law enforcement officers motives or thoughts are in this case. Seems to me that none of them have wanted to be there though. I thought it was very telling when the detective (that was suppose to say Zimmerman was guilty), instead said, he was pressured from the outside to get on with the challenge interview. He did not elaborate any further on who or why.

I hope I answered your questions in an understandable way. As I said, i don't know how to use the quote function, so I did the best I could. I am sure my reply is a grammatical nightmare.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:28 PM

52. Fair enough.

Thanks for that info. Clears that up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:52 AM

16. You see that George himself said he was running.

 

The operator repeated him. He then confirmed that he ran.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:22 PM

25. It is very

 

clear, that we know who was running from whom initially. We just don't know what happened after Zimmerman got off the phone with the 911 operator. We only know his version because the other person is dead.

We do know they came into physical contact and had a fight, with one of them ending up dead from a gun shot wound. There were several witnesses, but only one person identified who was beating whom and yelling for help.

We also know the last person Trayvon was in contact with other than Zimmerman. Both persons accounts differ about who attacked whom.

One person was a Friend of Trayvon and the other person was a white man who claims that he actually saw the fight while Zimmerman was getting the shit beat out of him and calling for help. Most people are claiming this guy is more believable.

Okay, lets look at it. So he is claiming Martin was beating the shit out of Zimmerman and while Zimmerman was calling for someone to help with him standing there watching. What would you have done? Stand there and let Martin beat the shit out of this white dude while you are watching? That didn't make any sense. If I would have saw someone getting the shit beat out of them and they are crying for help, I would have intervened, not leave and call 911. The person could have been dead by the time you did and police arrived. So apparently the guy wasn't getting the shit beat out of him.

Then I have a problem with all the witnesses, except one not knowing who Zimmerman was. He was living there and the community watch captain. That don't make any sense. Either he doesn't know people in the community or he does. According to them, Zimmerman would have been just as suspicious as Martin was. Would that have given them the right to report Zimmerman as a suspicious guy in the neighborhood, if he followed one of them on a dark rainy night??



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flvegan (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:24 PM

26. According to Jeantel, who he was on the phone with TM

Trayvon was breathing hard, like he was out of breath. Trayvon had been walking for a while, it wa dark, he was almost home, and he was tired.

Funny that the same people who think his friend came across as so stupid think she's capable of pulling off some pretty sophisticated lies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:25 PM

27. Confirmation bias and a "Romney Moment"

It's pretty interesting to watch the comments on this case; it's clear that what people want (innocence/guilt for Zimmerman) is influencing how some (not all) people interpret the evidence. The exact same witness can provide absolute proof of Mr. Zimmerman's guilt to some while destroying the prosecution's case in the eyes of others. I can't help but draw a parallel to the '12 Election and Romney's "shock" that they lost. I imagine the same thing is going to happen here (regardless of the outcome), that blinded by their confirmation bias, some will be unable to understand how the jury could NOT have seen the same thing they did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:32 PM

29. I'm more about using a persons own words to convict them.

 

Forensics help too. And don't forget we judge them by a standard based on what a reasonable person would do.
There are facts.
A. Kid dead
B. Zimmerman admits to killing him
C. Zimmerman says he followed kid
D. Zimmerman says kid ran
Once he gets off the phone we have no idea what he did. But we know that the child had been evading him.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:23 PM

43. Case in point....

Confirmation bias is not just "seeing what you want to see" but also "not seeing what you don't want to see".

D. "Zimmerman says kid ran" which is why..
C. "Zimmerman says he followed kid"...and then lost him and got jumped by him.

Other facts:

E. One witness puts Zimmerman on the bottom of a "ground and pound" situation.
F. Zimmerman suffered head injuries.
G. Autopsy report (page 7) shows injuries (I'm guessing the markings indicate scratches/abrasions) on Travyon's hands, specifically near the knuckles.
H. Zimmerman called the police before he did anything.

So there are several facts (E, F, G) that appear to me and others to fit into Zimmerman's account. Further, if Zimmerman had any intention of starting an altercation--yet alone a deadly one--why would would he call the police? Why would he admit to following Trayvon? It doesn't seem to me that a "reasonable person" would intentionally and unnecessarily give the police evidence against themselves. (Yes, there are potential explanations, but how reasonable/likely are they?)

Some things don't add up in this case from both parties, it's true. But I'm rather shocked at how absolutely convinced some people are--and how they are able to come to their conclusions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #43)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:35 PM

45. Nice try but no cigar.

 

D. "Zimmerman says kid ran" which is why..
"Zimmerman says he followed kid"...and then lost him and got jumped by him.
What makes you think the kid that was running from him, obviously fearful( for if he were not fearful, why did he run) decided to jump him? You made that up.
E. Other witnesses suggest Zimmerman was on top. I've been watching too.
F. Trayvon suffered gunshot wound to the chest. Fatal.
G. Stop guessing. Wait for the evidence if you don't know for sure.
H. Zimmerman called the police on an innocent teenager. Had he waited in his vehicle like was suggested to him, he'd have found that out and not be a killer.
Also I don't believe he was behaving reasonably.
His own words convinced me. Also I know about stranger danger and what they are teaching our kids. I have 2 children and I receive pamphlets that say things similar to the link I provided.
One must follow procedure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #45)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 08:23 PM

51. If it was "made up", it was "made up" by Zimmerman...

"George Zimmerman was in a panic. A ďsuspiciousĒ man he had been watching had jumped him in the rain. The man was pummeling him, slamming his head repeatedly into the pavement so it ďfelt like my head was going to explode,Ē Mr. Zimmerman told the police in newly released tapes."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Other witnesses suggest Zimmerman was on top. I've been watching too.

And at one point (after the shot), Zimmerman was on top. He said so himself in his sworn statement: "At this point I got out from underneath the suspect and got on top of him holding his hands away from his body." (Page 4.) So when the state's witnesses claimed (paraphrasing) the "person on top was the one that got up" that is potentially the very scenario that Zimmerman described.
http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/statements/written_statement_0226.pdf

Stop guessing.

"WFTV has confirmed that autopsy results show 17-year-old Trayvon Martin had injuries to his knuckles when he died."
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

And again, there are two marks on the autopsy report which (again I'm guessing) are abbreviations for "Abrasion" and "Scratch". (I wasn't clear what the guess was previously.)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:51 PM

55. I apologize.

 

Zimmerman made that up.
Ill wait for the autopsy in court not told to me by reporters.
2 scratches doesn't sound consistent with his injuries, but ill see what the coroner thinks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:53 PM

57. Try reading the autopsy report rather than news media spin. Here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3129522
"In case you can't the sole wound on Martin's body other than the gunshot wound was a 1/4 x 1/8 inch abrasion on the left ring finger. "

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #43)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 05:12 PM

49. No need to guess!

You can just read the Medical Examiner's report and discover what those markings are.
In case you can't the sole wound on Martin's body other than the gunshot wound was a 1/4 x 1/8 inch abrasion on the left ring finger.

Hard to make that consistent with a great rain of MMA blows.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #43)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 12:56 AM

59. If you looked at the autopsy report, why didn't you read it?

You:
G. Autopsy report (page 7) shows injuries (I'm guessing the markings indicate scratches/abrasions) on Travyon's hands, specifically near the knuckles.


I'm working from the report here: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

On page 2 of the autopsy two scars are described: 1 x 1/2 inch scar right shoulder; 1 x 1/2 inch scar right hand. It also mentions two tattoos.

On page 3 at the end of the section Evidence of Injury the coroner describes "Other injuries: There is a 1/4 x 1/8 inch abrasion on the left fourth finger."

The diagram on page 7 shows on the left hand ring finger, abr 1/4" x 1/8"; on the right hand scar 1" x 1/2". The abrasion on the left ring finger is not marked on the knuckle - it seems to be at the location a ring would sit on most people's fingers.

Nowhere in the autopsy report are any injuries to Trayvon Martin's knuckles described or documented.

Confirmation bias seems to require ignoring the facts in this case by many people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to csziggy (Reply #59)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:12 AM

61. Yes, that is a scar, my mistake.

The "a" was illegible and the "r" looks more like a "t" to me, which is why with the media report, I guessed it was "SCRT" for "scratch".

As for why I didn't read it thoroughly, frankly, this case isn't important to me. I'm just amazed at how certain some people are of Zimmerman's guilt/innocence despite the paucity of evidence. Rather than looking at the evidence and forming an objective conclusion, it appears many people formed a conclusion and are interpreting the evidence to fit said conclusion. And sadly, it seems these people based their conclusions almost entirely on stereotyping Martin (gangster) or Zimmerman (angry gun owner).

I guess I take back what I said about the case's importance--it's kind of shaken my faith in the jury system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 11:52 AM

64. If it's not important enough for you to get the facts, why post about it?

And why spread misinformation?

You take an incorrect assessment from a cursory scan of a part of the autopsy report and claim that provides proof of "people formed a conclusion and are interpreting the evidence to fit said conclusion." You seem to be guilty of that since you were willing to jump to the idea that Trayvon Martin had "injuries to his knuckles" when the autopsy report showed NOTHING to indicate that.

I spent a long time last year digging out facts on this case before forming my opinion. I took a break from it and now I'm trying to catch up on the data released for the trial. None of the "new" information so far from what I've been able to see of the trial changed my opinion that Zimmerman escalated a situation he should have been able to defuse and that he did not have justification for killing Trayvon Martin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ka hrnt (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:44 PM

36. Zimmerman had no right to target Martin,

 

when evidence shows, 90 percent of the witnesses in the neighborhood don't even know Zimmerman. Unless Martin was doing something wrong, by Zimmerman's logic, 90 percent of the witnesses would have been suspicious. They didn't know him either, so he would have been a suspicious character. There is nothing blind about Zimmerman killed a person that went to the store and was returning home on a rainy night. And Martin didn't know who this guy was following him. It could have happened to anyone, even you. Zimmerman doesn't even know everyone in the neighborhood. He doesn't even know Martin's father or girl friend. That could have happened to his father's girl friend's son. What if he was the one that went to the store instead?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:37 PM

30. "Evade, hide, run, yell, and if all else fails, fight like your life depends on it."

Yep. He did everything right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Iggo (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:39 PM

31. I should print T - Shirts.

 

It should be a nationwide catch phrase. For the children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:42 PM

35. I really think Bill Cosby nailed it form the start

he said (it's about guns)
The first question is-did Travon Martin know beforehand about this gun toting cop wannabe with little hero syndrome and if so ,what would the most logical reaction to it have been? The most logical way about reacting to just what Zimmerman is may have saved the young mans life.

Given Travon Martin was living with his father who was staying with his girl friend or living in,it would stand to reason Travon Martin was most likely perfectly aware of the one crazy guy being a neighborhood watch who carries a gun.

It's about guns.

Since we know the cops were on the way to the scene of the incident -just but a few minutes, Logic tells us Zimmerman shouldn't have given chase or what you might call stalked Travon Martin.

It came down to guns.

It's about guns.

And it will come down to six people to decide .

One thing Zimmerman said in one of many calls to 911 is ,(They always get away)
That having been said by Zimmerman adding to it his little hero syndrome issues say a lot about his mind set in my opinion. But socio's are very good at fooling people.And Zimmerman clearly had many people fooled.The young man may have tapped into that. Thing of it is ,sociopaths are unpredictable . The situation may have turned into exactly what Zimmerman wanted and in has fantasies.And of course he will sware all the way he never never intended to do that.

It's about guns.


At any rate my opinion doesn't count in a court of law and the trial is not about public opinion or mass media coverage.

It's about guns.











Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wash. state Desk Jet (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:46 PM

38. Yep. On the real.

 

Let the cops do their own damn job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wash. state Desk Jet (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:04 PM

40. That is why

 

Zimmerman having a loaded gun in the fight should have ended it. It is just his word, and not an even fight. We don't even know if the gun was in Zimmerman's holster and when he pulled it out. We don't know when Martin saw the gun. Zimmerman could have had Martin on the ground even with his back on the cement. Martin still could have been struggling to get away from Zimmerman, while fighting for his life, in Zimmerman's grip. That is just only speculation, just like everythingelse, except the facts before the struggle. All we know is who was chasing whom, before everythingelse became speculation. It comes down to two witnesses,Jenteal and Good. I think Jenteal is more authentic than Good. If Good really believed what he saw and heard, then why didn't Good give Zimmerman help? I don't believe Good at all, when he claim he saw what others couldn't. Ad I'll say somethingelse, anybody in a fight for their lives would have defensive wounds, not just offensive ones. There is no evidence of Zimmerman defending himself other than a gun. If that is so, Zimmerman didn't use all means at his disposal. And anybody with martial arts training, should at be capable of putting up some defense. Did Zimmerman have any wounds on his knuckles or hands?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to John2 (Reply #40)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 01:03 AM

60. What bothers me about Good's testimony is that he only heard two calls

For help. Only two, even when he was standing outside watching someone - who he now claims was Zimmerman - get "pounded".

On the 911 call that records screams for help and the gunshot, it is clear there were far more than two calls. And it isn't as if there were two calls, a pause, then more. Those screams and cries were continuous, right up to the instant the gun went off. Then the cries stopped cold.

How did Good only hear two calls?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wash. state Desk Jet (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 12:04 AM

58. thank you for that, Wash state Desk Jet nm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Original post)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:48 PM

54. thanks for your OP, bravenak.. of course he was.

but, Trayvon was being stalked by someone who had an agenda and wasn't going to let it go and he had the gun to prove it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Cha (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 29, 2013, 11:53 PM

56. Clearly someone named George makes his own rules.

 

I'm just worried he' be released and kill someon else.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bravenak (Reply #56)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:55 AM

63. Oh, he will.

Zimmerman has pretty much already secured his eventual release on appeal.

His "defense" was to keep the story in the national news long enough for the inevitable appeal to be steered to one of his dad's friends, where the case will be tossed on the Ollie North technicality that his notoriety prevented him from finding a jury that was both qualified and impartial.

That's why the defense attorney kicked the whole thing off with that stupid knock-knock joke. The whole thing is a joke, and anyone who thinks this result won't eventually land on the side of money and power ain't smelling the coffee yet.

There is no real rule of law in the United States and this case is going to prove it for the millionth time.

However, walking away from this will not guarantee Zimmerman's personal safety, only his freedom. He will feel less safe than ever, more inclined to arm himself, more likely to be assaulted by someone who recognizes him, and therefore much more likely to kill again than he was likely to kill that poor kid in the first place. That the next killing may actually be more justified won't discount the logical observation that all crimes that stem from this travesty are of Zimmerman's conscious, deliberate creation.

Yet he will walk free, because the rest of us are slaves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread