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Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:30 PM

US & NSA Accused of Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations

My formatting isn't the best. If this really interests you, I suggest the original link. I also had to snip some excerpts for copyright reasons
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Sat Jun 22, 2013 at 09:11 PM PDT
US & NSA Accused of Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations - Snowden Blowback

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...

Actually, it's hundreds of millions of computers, and billions of phone calls, that are routed through the NSA's data collection traps -- from every corner of the world -- every minute of the day. Even though most of them are not communicating to anyone in the US, the Internet's current architecture allows the NSA to capture them all. Potentially, that means every single soul on earth who uses electronic communication is being tracked.

Other nations understood this immediately. They are well aware that their citizens have been caught in the illegal NSA dragnet. This is a completely unacceptable act by the US -- just as it would be if the world's Internet backbone was located in Russia and Moscow was mining the rich personal data of every American citizen.

The United States has inadvertently declared itself to be a rogue, predatory Police State. When the story broke, officials in European capitals demanded immediate answers from their US counterparts and denounced the practice of secretly gathering digital information on Europeans as unacceptable, illegal and a serious violation of basic human rights.

There were heated and outraged discussions at the G-8 summit in Ireland. Eric Holder was flown to Brussels for questioning by the European Union. When Holder left, they were even more outraged. The Germans openly liken the United States actions to the actions of the Cold War-era Stasi.


Here's what the Nations of the World are saying to each other:

The United Nations:

Surveillance programmes that trample on people’s right to privacy in the name of security actually risk damaging the fight against terrorism, UN rights chief Navi Pillay warned Thursday.

“Concerns have been expressed over surveillance regimes adopted by some states without adequate safeguards to protect individuals’ right to privacy,” Pillay told a UN counter-terrorism conference in Geneva.

“If our goal in countering terrorism is to provide for the security of individuals and preserve the rule of law, such practices are... counterproductive,” she said.

::

UN Under Secretary General Jeffrey Feltman said: “If we allow compromise on human rights, we are not countering terrorism but letting it get its way.

“When the principles enshrined in the human rights instruments are disrespected, extremism tends to thrive,” said Feltman, who heads the world body’s Counter-Terrorism Implementation Task Force Office (CTITF).

Switzerland:

Swiss Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter told the conference: “The quest for security must not lead to excessive infringements of the right to privacy.”

Switzerland this week asked Washington for explanations about Snowden’s revelations, especially on an alleged CIA blackmail operation to spy on its banks while he was stationed in Geneva as a diplomatic attache from 2007 to 2009.

“Would we have a better society if honest citizens were subjected to constant surveillance by governments, with all the abuses that this may bring?” Burkhalter said. “In Switzerland’s view, the answer is definitely no.”

In Switzerland, at least one lawmaker has demanded that Internet giant Google be forced to be more transparent about the user data it retains.

Germany:

...

Reports about the apparent sophistication and long reach of US surveillance have also caused anxiety in continental Europe, particularly in Germany, where there are memories of the former East Germany’s Stasi intelligence service.

The country’s data commissioner has said he expects the government to put a stop to any American surveillance of German citizens, while worried lawmakers from across the political spectrum have said they want to know more.

...

“This affair looks like it will be one of the biggest scandals in data sharing ... Merkel cannot just look away and act like nothing has happened,” added Renate Kuenast, a senior Green lawmaker.

Peter Schaar, Germany's federal data protection commissioner told the Guardian that it was unacceptable that US authorities have access to the data of European citizens "and the level of protection is lower than what is guaranteed for US citizens."

...

“I am amazed at the flippant way in which companies such as Google and Microsoft seem to treat their users’ data,” he told the Handelsblatt newspaper. “Anyone who doesn’t want that to happen should switch providers.”

Brussels and the European Union:

European companies using services from U.S. Internet companies must now be concerned about whether they are in breach of EU Data Protection laws. Those laws require companies to ensure only authorized personnel have access to any personal information of individuals.

The fact that U.S. government agencies may be accessing this data could result in many European organizations being unable to satisfy their data protection obligations.

...

Fears about the security of data held on U.S. servers have already been a major factor in slow European adoption of "cloud" computing services, in which computing-intensive applications are done by central providers in large server farms.

“You hear more concerns in Europe than in the US, about the Patriot Act in particular. PRISM just enhances those concerns,” said Mark Watts, a partner in London law firm Bristows specialising in privacy and data compliance.

“The main players that are mentioned are much more on the consumer cloud end... but it may be that emotionally it adds to the concerns about US cloud providers,” said Watts, whose clients include several large US internet firms.

...

Ireland:

In Dublin, Holder tried to play down Ireland's fears about the extent of the surveillance programme. The top-secret intelligence dragnet operated by the US National Security Agency (NSA) collects and analyses data from Internet and phone users around the world.

Holder said the US government could not force Internet companies to provide information on individuals unless there was an “appropriate and documented” foreign intelligence threat. Holder added that there was an “extensive oversight regime” on the spy programmes.

He took a stern tone on Snowden, saying that, "This case is still under investigation and I can assure you that we will hold accountable the person responsible for those extremely damaging leaks.”

But the 29-year-old Snowden is expected to resist any bid to extradite him from Hong Kong.

Italy:

Leader Antonello Soro, said that the data dragnet "would not be legal in Italy."

It would be contrary to the principles of our legislation and would represent a very serious violation.

Australia:

Fears about the security of data held on U.S. servers have already been a major factor in slow European adoption of "cloud" computing services, in which computing-intensive applications are done by central providers in large server farms.

Unease over a clandestine US data collection programme has rippled across the Pacific to two of Washington’s major allies, Australia and New Zealand, raising concerns about whether they have cooperated with secret electronic data mining.

...

"There is a massive global trend to cloud services," said opposition communications spokesman Malcolm Turnbull, noting that the vast majority of providers were U.S. firms.

...

Australia’s influential Greens party called on the government to clarify whether Canberra’s own intelligence agencies had access to the NSA-gathered data, which according to Britain’s Guardian newspaper included search history, emails, file transfers and live chats.

“We’ll examine carefully any implications in what has emerged for the security and privacy of Australians,” Australia’s Foreign Minister Bob Carr said in a television interview on Sunday, when asked whether Canberra had cooperated with Washington’s secret initiative.

New Zealand:

Responding to the government-surveillance controversy engulfing New Zealand’s security-alliance partners in Washington,

Prime Minister John Key said Tuesday his country doesn’t use foreign intelligence agencies to circumvent local laws and illegally spy on its citizens.

But Key declined to say exactly what help New Zealand does get from agencies like the US National Security Agency. He said any help the South Pacific nation has received from foreign intelligence agencies would have been lawful and in the country’s national interest.

Key was responding in Parliament to questions raised by opposition lawmakers. They’ve raised fears the NSA may have spied on New Zealanders under an intelligence-sharing alliance known as Five Eyes that includes the US, Canada, the UK and Australia.

Revelations in recent days about US spy programs that track phone and Internet messages around the world have created an international uproar.

Canada:

In Canada, Privacy Commissioner Jennifer Stoddart said Monday she would look into the implications for her country, saying the scope of information reportedly collected raises “significant concerns.”

In 2011, I was on a panel, organized by the security company RSA, with two retired National Security Agency directors, Michael Hayden and Kenneth Minihan. During the course of our debate, I raised concerns, as the only non-American on the panel, that their plans and preferences for having the NSA secure cyberspace for the rest of us were not exactly reassuring. To this, Minihan replied that I should not describe myself as "Canadian" but rather "North American."

As jarring as his response was, the fact of the matter is when it comes to communications, he's right. Practically speaking, there is no border separating Canadian from U.S. telecommunications -- though that's not true the other way around. Primarily, this one-way dependence is a product of history and economics. Canadians' communications are inextricably connected to networks south of the border and subject to the laws and practices of the U.S. over which we, as foreigners, have no say or control.

Norway:

Norwegian lawmakers debated a ban on the use by public officials of Google's and Microsoft's cloud computing services. Although shelved temporarily, this type of debate will almost certainly be resurrected and spread throughout Europe and other regions as the full scope of U.S.-based "foreign directed" wiretapping and metadata collection sinks in.

Finland:

Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer at Finnish software security firm F-Secure, said outrage was the appropriate response to the US revelations.

“What we have in our hands now is the first concrete proof of US-based high-tech companies participating with the NSA in wholesale surveillance on us, the rest of the world, the non-American, you and me,” he said.

But he added there was little that individuals could do, with precious few alternatives to the popular services offered by US firms Facebook, Google or Apple.

“The long term solution is that Europe should have a dot.com industry just like the United States, which would give us economic benefits but more importantly would make us independent of the wholesale surveillance of the US intelligence agencies.”

Hong Kong:

...

In a joint letter to the US president, they (Pro-democracy lawmakers Gary Fan and Claudia Mo) said Snowden may have “done liberal democracy a service by stimulating serious discussion in many countries of the extent to which surveillance is acceptable”.

“Obama should consider letting him go,” Mo said in a press conference, while urging Beijing not to interfere if an extradition case goes to the Hong Kong courts.

“This is shocking because while the US has accused China of hacking, they have also been doing the same thing, particularly when Hong Kong ordinary citizens are involved,” Fan told reporters.

...

China’s Internet security chief, who told state media that Beijing has amassed huge amounts of data on US-based hacking.

Air Force Col. Dai Xu, known for the hawkish opinions he voices on his Sina Weibo microblog, wrote: “I have always said, the United States’ accusations about Chinese hacking attacks have always been a case of a thief crying for another thief to be caught.”
The ACLU:

The American Civil Liberties Union branded the program, authorized by a top secret court order, as “beyond Orwellian.”

...

The ACLU and Yale Law School's Media Freedom and Information Clinic filed a motion on Monday asking for secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court opinions on the Patriot Act to be made public in the light of the Guardian's revelations.

...

Finally, the ACLU is going to court.

On Monday it filed a motion with the "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) seeking the release of secret court opinions on the Patriot Act's Section 215, which has been interpreted to authorize this warrantless and suspicionless collection of phone records.

And on Tuesday it filed a lawsuit charging that the program [the NSA's mass surveillance of phone calls] violates Americans' constitutional rights of free speech, association, and privacy.


Executive Summary:


As we can see, the American Bubble has no awareness or perspective of how Edward Snowden's whistleblowing has affected the entire world and the future of its digital communications infrastructure. Americans think it is all about them -- but the fact is, the global community doesn't care how the US treats its own citizens. This is completely immaterial to the sovereign security crisis the world is actually facing as a result of Snowden's revelations.

::

In the US, where the concerns of other sovereign nations are not a factor, pressure is growing at the White House to explain whether there is effective congressional oversight of the domestic spying programs revealed by Snowden. This is a conversation that the government cannot have with the American people. Every time they make a statement, the global blowback gets worse.

The administration hopes that the American public will be easily distracted by the drama of charging Snowden with espionage and the years long extradition kabuki. This way, they can stonewall the people's inquiries with "ongoing case" and "national security" tropes -- until the new season of American Idol begins again in September.

Personally, I don't believe that any elected figure at the Federal Government has the will or the authority to stop the NSA, even if that was a desired goal. It was a different America when over-reach like like J. Edgar Hoover's could be somewhat contained. Everything changed after September 11th, which was certainly a fortuitous event for the Neocons and the signers of PNAC.

....

If you are inside the US, it really doesn't matter. The immediate future is set. The ball is in the global court. American businesses will be the first to feel the blowback..

The NSA revelations pose an immediate economic problem for US cloud providers on the international market -- the big name telecoms. Richard Stiennon, chief research analyst at IT-Harvest, wrote in Forbes that this kind of, "vast foreign and domestic spying & threatens the global competitiveness of U.S. tech companies."

Internet traffic to the United States from Asia, Africa and even Latin America has been in decline, a trend that is almost certainly going to accelerate as those regions ramp up their own network exchange points and local services to minimize dependence on networks and media services under US control.

The global imperative is to contain and isolate the criminal NSA data-mining exploits solely to the United States. That is, to quarantine this Orwellian infection to North America.

That's what the world is talking about today.



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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/23/1218102/-US-NSA-Accused-of-Criminal-Privacy-Violations-in-Dozens-of-Nations-Snowden-Blowback

62 replies, 5279 views

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Arrow 62 replies Author Time Post
Reply US & NSA Accused of Criminal Privacy Violations in Dozens of Nations (Original post)
Catherina Jun 2013 OP
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #1
Alameda Jun 2013 #10
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #11
Alameda Jun 2013 #37
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #38
MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #24
silvershadow Jun 2013 #25
Taverner Jun 2013 #28
ReRe Jun 2013 #42
Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #43
snagglepuss Jun 2013 #2
TakeALeftTurn Jun 2013 #3
FirstLight Jun 2013 #4
ReRe Jun 2013 #44
Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #5
peacebird Jun 2013 #6
xiamiam Jun 2013 #7
marions ghost Jun 2013 #12
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #13
marions ghost Jun 2013 #18
nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #21
ReRe Jun 2013 #45
TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #26
WestStar Jun 2013 #8
Catherina Jun 2013 #9
ReRe Jun 2013 #46
G_j Jun 2013 #14
adric mutelovic Jun 2013 #15
Downwinder Jun 2013 #16
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #17
railsback Jun 2013 #19
Number23 Jun 2013 #31
railsback Jun 2013 #36
sibelian Jun 2013 #52
Number23 Jun 2013 #61
liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #20
Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #22
Th1onein Jun 2013 #29
WillyT Jun 2013 #23
Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #27
truebluegreen Jun 2013 #30
xiamiam Jun 2013 #32
SHRED Jun 2013 #34
SHRED Jun 2013 #33
TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #35
DevonRex Jun 2013 #48
Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #50
DevonRex Jun 2013 #55
Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #56
DevonRex Jun 2013 #60
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #39
DeSwiss Jun 2013 #40
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #41
avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #47
sibelian Jun 2013 #53
ReRe Jun 2013 #49
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #51
Catherina Jun 2013 #58
tblue Jun 2013 #54
marions ghost Jun 2013 #62
Savannahmann Jun 2013 #57
felix_numinous Jun 2013 #59

Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:33 PM

1. Two almost immediate effects

 

Next time the US screams copyright..there will be a break out of laughter.

Another effect...the TTP negotiations will be...complicated

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:04 PM

10. What is TTP?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 11:36 PM

37. Thanks..I did see that, but

didn't understand how that got to be TTP? These things get so confusing.

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Response to Alameda (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 11:37 PM

38. A lot of it is over copy right

 

And right now EU governments are ...how to put it gently? Pissed off at us?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:37 PM

24. At least the latter is a positive development (nm)

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:43 PM

25. So there is some good to come out of this then? I pray it derails it. nt

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:50 PM

28. Let us hope TTP dies

 

The rest of the world is getting a little upset about Neoliberalism as well


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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:34 AM

42. TPP: Trans Pacific Partnership treaty

Our minds work alike. This is what popped into my mind... what the affect would be on that
other secret group in our government right now, i.e. the TPP. I bet you they cram that thing through Congress ASAP to escape the affects of the global revelations of the cozy relationship between USA's NSA/Business cabal. Personally, I hope the world revelation of NSA's nefarious deeds causes the TPP not to pass. Hope. Living on hope.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #1)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:44 AM

43. This will have no impact on copyright

Copyright laws are substantially the same throughout the world.

Where the US is out of step - which these statements show - is with respect to privacy. For the last 13 years my primary client has been a global corporation. Things having an impact on individual privacy that no one even gives a second thought to in the US are extremely costly civil - and in some instances criminal - blunders in most European countries.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:36 PM

2. to read later

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:40 PM

3. k&r

 

.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:43 PM

4. wow...

can you say 'busted'...and by that I mean the US Govt in general has gotta look pretty bad for this...right?

we can no longer try to pretend we are the 'good guys' of the planet fighting for everyone's 'freedom'...

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Response to FirstLight (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:49 AM

44. That's right...

"American Exceptionalism" has been placed where it belongs. In the trash. Who are we to say we are the "greatest nation in the world"? All of my life I bucked when I heard politicians use it. We are no better than ANY nation on this earth. Also: "God Bless America." When Kate Smith sung it, yes, I loved it. Because I felt America did do good for mankind after WWII. But now? We haven't done so good for the world in the last 40 years or so. We could have SAVED the world! But nooooooooo, we had to go the greedy "I got mine", "Me-Me-Me", "Greed is Good", "globalization" route. There's never enough for them. They have to have more and more and more. And in the process, the citizens of the world have less and less and less.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:47 PM

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Catherina.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:47 PM

6. I find it inteesting the link title says the cause is "Snowden blowback" instead of US/NSA spying

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:53 PM

7. powerful commentary. If we're too busy, distracted, partisan, downright stupid

to stop this, we deserve what we get. I don't think I ever anticipated in my life that we would be at this juncture.

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:08 PM

12. Agree

We are at a crossroads I don't think many bargained for. How the US handles this is critical.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #12)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:17 PM

13. Some of those have been railing about this slow move to hell

 

Since the USPA was released.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:58 PM

18. The Patriot Act

--yes you could see the writing on the wall then, but how many thought it would actually be this bad?

Must have more transparency and accountability & public protections in this whole process. And soon.

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #18)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:05 PM

21. I did, have been calling the enabling act since

 

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Response to marions ghost (Reply #18)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:53 AM

45. The so-called "Patriot Act"...

... sure moved fast, didn't it? When did that go through, in 2003? 10 years, and look where we are. Down the effing hole, all the way around.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:47 PM

26. Amen

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:02 PM

8. It really doesn't help when our government officials, including the President,

 

try to justify the whole mess by saying we were "only" tracking foreigners.


THE ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD ARE FOREIGNERS FOR THE CRIPES SAKE!

Sorry for shouting.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:04 PM

9. Court cases beginning also. This one in the UK by a civil rights group whose rights were violated

News / Law / UK civil liberties

Civil rights group says GCHQ and NSA has targeted it illegally

Liberty asks official tribunal to investigate whether its communications have been intercepted by government spooks

Richard Norton-Taylor, security editor
The Guardian, Tuesday 25 June 2013

...

It has made an official complaint to the tribunal set up by the 2000 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (Ripa), a statute which the whistleblower Edward Snowden has shown is wide open to abuse.

Liberty, which used to be known as the National Council for Civil Liberties, has been targeted in the past, notably by MI5. It now believes its electronic communications and those of its staff may have been unlawfully intercepted by the security services and GCHQ.

It has asked the investigatory powers tribunal set up by Ripa whether GCHQ has used the NSA's Prism and GCHQ's Tempora systems to bypass the formal British legal process regulating access to personal information. Liberty claims the right to respect for private and family life, enshrined in Article 8 of the Human Rights Act, has been breached.

Certificates signed by the foreign secretary under section 8 of Ripa now seem to allow GCHQ to get round the restriction that only "external communications" – that is, to or from foreign countries – can be intercepted, because there is no way of distinguishing which messages drawn from the cables are external and which are entirely domestic.

Foreign secretaries have intercepted communications in ways far beyond what the law intended, Liberty argues. It says it is concerned that Britain's intelligence agencies have been able "to evade checks and balances and monitor people in the UK". It adds: "They may be treating internet communications as international rather than domestic to evade closer scrutiny and receiving material from their US partners to evade scrutiny altogether".

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/jun/25/liberty-gchq-nsa-target-illegal

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Response to Catherina (Reply #9)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 01:57 AM

46. Over the past week or so...

... I have wished that Snowden would let the rest of his whistle blow. But, since it is so much for the human mind to comprehend, maybe it's best this way? To dribble it out?

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:22 PM

14. K&R

informative, thanks!

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:34 PM

15. Americans usually think it's ok to spy on foreigners

 

It's fine if the person isn't an American citizen, some Americans say, without asking whether the US Government isn't abusing its powers in regard to these searches.

Foreigners are people too. Those suspected of being terrorists (real suspicion, not the BS that FISA approves with a rubber-stamp all the time) abroad should be spied on. Emphasis on "real suspicion".

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:46 PM

16. Winning hearts and minds.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:49 PM

17. K&R Important Post!

 

Thank you Catherina

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:59 PM

19. I love it

 

All these countries go 'who? what? me?' ROFL.

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Response to railsback (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:23 PM

31. Not only that, but I find their comments to be reasonable and entirely consistent

These guys have diplomats, a military and secrets just like we do. The idea from that Kos diarist that everyone is mad because we are doing the exact same thing that they are doing is bizarre.

I was expecting alot of sturm und drund in this OP and didn't get anything even resembling that. In the real world, this is what's going on at least here in Australia - http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/australia-gets-deluge-of-us-secret-data-prompting-a-new-data-facility-20130612-2o4kf.html

People need to read and not just swallow what some are feeding them here. Does anyone seriously, HONESTLY think that every single one of those other countries doesn't have something similar in place? This is an important issue and the Patriot Act has simply got to go. But some of the BS being trotted out around here does nothing but make this place look even more unhinged than usual.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:56 PM

36. 'Unhinged' is the definitive term.

 

though I would prefer using 'dumbassery'

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Response to Number23 (Reply #31)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:07 AM

52. Are you completely mad?


So you're now just inventing an imaginary spy apparatus in every other country in the world that nabs people's phone data so as to make America look good?

?

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Response to sibelian (Reply #52)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 07:08 PM

61. Your grip on facts is only rivalled by your grip on reality.

Yes, you're right. The United States is the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD that spies on other countries. Not only that, if you close your eyes real tight and completely ignore the link I posted in my previous post, you will remain blissfully unaware that not only do other countries spy on each other, they USE OTHER COUNTRY'S SPYING INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY again to SPY ON OTHER COUNTRIES. The link I posted says PLAIN AS DAY that Australia is using the information from PRISM in its own spying capabilities.

But hey, if you're only here to be spoon fed tripe by a group of posters with a clear agenda and shoot down anything and any one that puts forth any other information, you knock yourself out! Better you than me.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:03 PM

20. K&R

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:05 PM

22. I guess they haven't been told that Snowden had fuckin' boxes in

his garage and is a high school dropout. Maybe Linkasaurus Rex should invest in Rosetta Stone and get busy unleashing the dreaded blue linkies!

cheers!

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #22)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:01 PM

29. Is Linkasaurus Rex who I think it is?

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:33 PM

23. K & R !!!

 


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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:49 PM

27. Uh oh. This is going to hit Big Business' bottom line.

"Shit just got real".

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:08 PM

30. Good.

 

The President wanted us to hold his feet to the fire. Apparently we couldn't apply enough heat; maybe the rest of the world can.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:28 PM

32. so much for land of the free

the rest of the world is saying take care of it within your own borders. We don't have the political leadership at the moment to do that. Pitiful and frightening at the same time. Just look at the posts here on du which distract with gossip about Snowden or Greenwald. We're just too fucking stupid to address the problem and many wont even admit that Obama is culpable. Maybe he cant change it but why cant a good faith move like firing Clapper occur. No one in our govt is telling us the truth about this and they just cant wait to lock up Snowden.
There's lots to talk about ..private contractors, wasted money, profiting off war and surveillance much less violating the constitution. Even here where folks should know better..its the black magic of gossip. I hate that so much because that's what it is. We look like fools.

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Response to xiamiam (Reply #32)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:31 PM

34. so true

thank you

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:30 PM

33. Our privatized, corporatized, for-profit government is running amok

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 10:36 PM

35. Ya don't say???

Now, we must hope they all remember to press their own governments as well and make it a global push.

China and the US are too entwined and seem to be melding philosophically, mostly going for the worst parts en route to a hell of an evil clusterfuck. Maybe, nothing complex or even active just a borrowing of ideas and approaches to make hay on some long term goals to perfect already effective systems for those ambitions.

This could be turn out to be a better than average chance to move the needle in a world wide way on this critical civil liberty and in turn other natural rights would assert themselves.
Wouldn't be easy and most likely would have unintended and unexpected side effects but not much is worth more and it will be pretty tough not to advance the understanding that we are all in this together.

What a powerful possibility! No matter how plausible there is potential of some sort and real growth is in it.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #35)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:24 AM

48. Why the fuck would that happen? Snowden only leaked about US. Not Switzerland's Onyx

system which is HUGE and has the entire globe's financial as well as SIGINT intelligence in it. Or France's Frenchelon. Oh no. He left all the other nations' programs intact and crippled US.

Cheer on. Whoopie.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #48)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:40 AM

50. You're wildly overstating Onyx's capabilities. nt

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #50)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:01 PM

55. LOL!!! Remember, Snowden can bring down the global intelligence network in half a day. Alone.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #55)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:06 PM

56. I didn't realize that you were being sarcastic.

Onyx is relatively mild as far as SIGINT collection ops go. That, and totally useless.

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Response to Democracyinkind (Reply #56)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 06:47 PM

60. Except that it is an IXP...

But yes, I was having fun with sarcasm. Jesus, they fell for all Snowden's bizarre claims. I was working up to a trap on Luxembourg FININT and you had to go and put a stop to it. I was gonna have the Vatican Swiss Guards in full regalia take over the world by the end with the Pope as the real Wizard of Oz. DAMMIT!!!

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:16 AM

39. Here in the United State we debate the right to privacy exists for our own citizens,...

 

....so we CERTAINLY don't believe it exists for feriners...

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:29 AM

40. They've always known it......

 

...but now they have the proof.

K&R!!!

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:35 AM

41. Quick! Somebody turn off the lights! The roaches are being seen!

 

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Response to Catherina (Original post)


Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #47)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 04:09 AM

53. Oh, right. Were they now?


Says who? Says you?

You're just going to make stuff up now?

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:25 AM

49. G.Q American Public doesn't know this....

K&R

Well, I wonder when this thread will be locked. We'll see if it lasts until I punch the "post my reply" button. (That is what has happened to me several times this week.)

Thank you so much for this OP, Catherina! I thought PO had a nervous look on his face when he was over at the G8 get-together. I had a hunch at what it was about, but had no idea what had gone on behind the scene. Now I know for a fact what happened. The world is pissed! "We are going to get it one of these days." I've been saying that for many years.

Yeah, it's Constitutional Amendment time again. We need to get money out of politics and throw that Citizens United crap out the door for one. And then a 21st Century FDR 2nd Bill of Rights, including one on PRIVACY, since they went around the 4th Amendment.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:46 AM

51. Is there any reason why these countries cannot create their own servers so they do not have to use

US Servers? I'm sure they will be looking into it now.

Spying on the whole world. What arrogance. As if we ruled the world. Maybe now the puppets in Europe will be ousted and replaced with people who are not beholden to Goldman Sachs, like Merkel eg.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #51)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:37 PM

58. No, and they're on it. As well as the links between the servers

The servers aren't really the main problem, it's the links between them, the relays that are being tapped.

Venezuela and Cuba jointly installed an underseas fiber cable operational since Feb 2011 for their secure communications and now they've opened it to Jamaica and I don't know who else. You know how that wiley Castro never trusted the US. Their fiber optic link is even called the ALBA-1 with more to come throughout the ALBA bloc.

I am certain China will be only too happy to help out, just as they're helping build an alternative to the Panama Canal that the US uses to try to control commercial flow and enforce its embargos.

And the Cloud storage the US was betting on to make a gazillion bucks under the pretense of providing a *secure* place for business all over the world to store & share their sensitive communications? That just went down the drain.

I don't have those articles handy but there's been a lot of talk among French and German tech companies to do just that to secure their business and private communications.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 12:19 PM

54. The USA gets a lesson on democracy

from the rest of the world. How ironic. We are blinded by our presumed "exceptionaism," but no one else is favorably impressed.

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Response to tblue (Reply #54)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 07:44 PM

62. "Blinded by our presumed exceptionalism"

--led by a bunch of narcissists and sociopaths. Arrogant bullies.

America needs a big correction and this is a good start.

I at what America has come to stand for around the world. I take hope that this will cause some needed changes.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 02:13 PM

57. But I thought

 

We were spying on the people, here and abroad, in the least intrusive manner possible.

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Response to Catherina (Original post)

Tue Jun 25, 2013, 06:10 PM

59. K&R

Abusive systems are not sustainable-- they either change or self destruct.

Meanwhile the planet is heating up and money needed to prepare and adjust is being diverted to those contributing to social, planetary and humanitarian damage.

People all over the world know what's up and know there is no time for this bullshit.

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