Do you Stand with Rand or with President Obama. Only two choices here.

[graham4anything]

Last edited Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:52 AM - Edit history (2)

this is a confidential poll, so please answer honestly.
No one is tracking anything.

I stand with the President.

edited to put sarcasm smilie in what was obvious an ironic joke.

edit to add- I did not realize that automatically the poll adds a no opinion or no vote choice.
I only made the two
So I guess there are 3 choices, but my poll stated only 2

25 votes, 21 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I stand with Rand
	7 (28%)
	I have the back of President Obama
	18 (72%)
	21 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[newmember]

1. Define on what?

[Cirque du So-What]

11. There is no other issue. This is the issue.

There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue. There is no other issue. This is the issue.

As a message board, this site is incapable of dealing with more than one issue at a time, with the exception of small intervals of overlap - at which time the 'ancient' issue falls rapidly out of favor. Remember gun legislation? Me either.

[adric mutelovic]

179. You should state what Paul and Obama argue

In the particular topic you are referring to. This would allow respondents to know choose between Paul's or Obama's argument.

[NCTraveler]

2. Were you a member of the debate club in high school.

This is some impressive shit.

[el_bryanto]

3. I stand with myself. Possibly because I just eat a raw onion. One of those red ones.

The choice isn't that simple.

Bryant

[calimary]

151. DUzy!!!!

[flamingdem]

153. Is that what's giving me gas?

.. was wondering about that.

[Demit]

4. Oh for heaven's sake.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

5. I'm on the side of the US Constitution

No two ways about it.

[Th1onein]

178. And I'm with you on that.

[Savannahmann]

6. Two problems.

First, it's never a confidential poll, you can click on show usernames and see who voted for what.

Second, why reduce the question to the personalities of those involved? How someone else thinks only matters to me if they are able to make an argument which causes me to reconsider my position. So far, President Obama's argument has been if we don't trust the Government, we have a problem, and we can trust that the Government is not reading our messages and listening to our phone calls.

So let's for the sake of argument say that he is telling the truth. He has been told, and honestly believes that they are not reading our messages and listening to our phone calls. Truman ordered the Venona project shut down, and was told that it was shut down. But the CIA which Truman started, never stopped the project which dated back to pre WW II. So even if I trust President Obama so explicitly, even he can not guarantee that those 4 million Top Secret clearance holders are all obeying his orders. No one can guarantee that.

So why did you post this question with the obviously disproven assertion that it is confidential, because anyone can click and see usernames, that way? Wouldn't it have been more honest to ask if we stood with the constitution or the need for security?

No, you made it a loyalty test, one that you and other boundless full throated defenders of party over principle would use to try and smoke out those of us who are disloyal.

[cali]

7. how about this is the stupidest poll I've ever seen on DU?

Furthermore, it is not a confidential poll, genius. The admins have access to who voted what. ]

Fuck.

[newmember]

12. You must hate America and the ballet

[KarenS]

18. actually, we can ALL see who voted which way,,,,

click "show usernames" at the bottom of the poll box.

[pinboy3niner]

19. +1

Certainly ONE of the stupidest.

And, btw, ANY of us can see who voted for what by clicking on "Show usernames."

[lob1]

152. If not the stupidest, it's certainly up there.

[NuttyFluffers]

202. well it's certainly beat the farces i've attempted

i guess i'm inadequate when creating stupid things...

[newmember]

8. define on what again.....

There is no standing behind anyone.

Define or delete your post

[treestar]

9. It is an a abstract issue

Not just a matter of people. On which case there are many choices. There are many subsidiary issues too.

[graham4anything]

20. in 2000 there were 2 choices. Vote for Gore or against Gore. Vote for ALito/Roberts or Against

SCOTUS showed Nader was wrong

unless of course, you believe Gore would have nominated Scalia and Alito and Roberts and Thomas

there are only two choices for everything

for
against

[cali]

28. "there are only two choices for everything". Absolute horse shit.

you live in a scary little black and white world.

shove your loyalty oath shit right up....

[sabrina 1]

204. Lol, you made me laugh, which was not easy after seeing this ridiculous poll, We should all have

voted for Paul. I would love to have seen the reaction from the 'my party can do no wrong' contingency.

[treestar]

141. Nah, that's not so

In 2000 there were several choices.

[hughee99]

144. If there were only two choices, why did so many vote for Buchanan on the butterfly ballot? n/t

[graham4anything]

146. Florida didn't matter if NH 4 electoral votes went for Gore. Gore had 270 without Florida w NH

and, because people voted for Reagan in 1980 (WHY???) the justices in place in 2000 were there.

Why did so many democratic voters stray in 1980?

It goes with what I said.

John Anderson was the Nader of 1980, as was fracture due to petty in fighting between the two camps of democratic voters

[hughee99]

147. I thought there were only two choices? That's what I was responding to.

The people in Florida had the choice to punch the hole for "Gore" or to punch the hole for "Not Gore".

On an unrelated subject that you brought up, why do you think NH is such a Democratic lock? I spend a decent amount of time there and in my experience it is by far the most conservative of the New England states.

[cali]

10. You're against loyalty oaths and purity tests. Except when they're YOURS. Disgusting.

hypocritical.

[Savannahmann]

14. Agreed

That's all this is, a loyalty test, with the show usernames, a falsely advertised one to boot.

[Solly Mack]

13. LMAO

[Renew Deal]

15. This is not a confidential poll. There's no such thing on DU

And you already knew that

[JW2020]

16. Do you like ripping the heads off of puppies or strawberry cheesecake?

[hughee99]

145. Perhaps a tough call for the lactose intolerant.

I don't want to kill the puppies, but I can't eat the cheesecake.

[Yo_Mama]

17. If you make me choose, I will always stand with the Constitution

rather than any individual.

I do not think that makes me an enemy of anyone, even if that person seems to be temporarily on the other side of the debate. I think the Constitution protects us all.

My father's family was harried out of Europe in the runup to WWII. The type of mindset we have been developing in the US is not healthy, and in certain hands it could turn out to be terribly dangerous. Therefore, I wish to change it. And I will stand with anyone who also wishes to change it.

I think that anyone who doesn't is an enemy of the Democratic party and betraying the president, because without democracy there will be no real "Democratic" party. You can't have the big D without the small D.

[KarenS]

23. Amen to this,,, n/t

[sabrina 1]

207. Excellent post, thank you!

[pintobean]

21. What a bland salad

and deceptive, too.

[JW2020]

22. Mea culpa

I voted Rand in defiance of this stupid poll.

[Egalitarian Thug]

24. Ralph Nader!

[pintobean]

26. +1

[premium]

30. +10000. nt.

[el_bryanto]

32. Why stop there - why not get rid of anybody who says things you don't like? nt

[graham4anything]

45. The irony is amazing. Just in the last few days

there was an uproar when a few people (not me) made a comment against the heckler

yet, a few people said a view against Alan Grayson and wow, the same people who railed against those heckling,
railed against the view of Grayson
(and those were not hecklers, just viewpoints).

Ironic, isn't it?

[HappyMe]

49. Good grief!

On the one hand spying is a horror, and on the other hand censorship is ducky fine.

[pintobean]

64. You're on the MIRT

Censorship is a job you volunteered to do here. Many here see the OP as disruptive.

Don't get me wrong, HappyMe, I like you, and I appreciate all who serve on MIRT. I'm just pointing out how others may see this.

[HappyMe]

72. MIRT is about getting rid of spammers,

and the really creepy trolls. If you think it's about censorship, you have the wrong idea.

I have a feeling that there are quite a few people that others find 'disruptive'. You can't please everybody, all of the time.

Put him on ignore or trash his threads or scroll right past.

[ucrdem]

75. Thanks for that.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Agreed.

This is dishonest to the extreme.

[bobduca]

116. No but we are supposed to pretend that the OP is being honest

and all subthreads that point out what this is, get alerted and deleted...

[Electric Monk]

162. I suspect the OP is still awaiting beer and travel money, and many experiences

[sibelian]

27. Over half of the respondents to this poll

(at the time of this post) reject your transparently misdirective false dichotomy.

17 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided

for Obama - 11

for Rand - 2

[graham4anything]

33. and voters in 2000 who stayed home because of Ralph Nader were not counted in the totals

see my point?

Same in 2010.

all protest does is give to the other side a victory they should not have had happened.

It wasn't so much that Nader's vote totals of people voted

It was perhaps upward of millions who specifically stayed home believing him in 2000
and did not vote at all.

See?

so we got corporate personhood and 2 wars because of those non-voters and all the not voting for Gore voters.

[JW2020]

52. Your own "data" disproves your point.

Obama wins your silly little poll.

[premium]

29. This is not a confidential poll.

I stand with Constitution.

[Savannahmann]

31. The less than loyal members identified by the "confidential" poll so far.

The less than loyal members so far are... think, In_The_Wind, Egalitarian Thug, sibelian, Ichingcarpenter, temmer, el_bryanto, pintobean, NCTraveler, cherokeeprogressive, MineralMan, Puzzledtraveller, QC, marions ghost, KarenS, MattBaggins, demmiblue

The outright disloyal members are. JW2020, Yo_Mama

Is that the information you were trying to get Graham?

[premium]

35. Add me to the list of less than loyal. nt.

[Savannahmann]

41. I did say it was so far.

The list will be compiled later, when we can identify all those who are less than loyal are identified. What a crock of (expletive deleted by Censors for a better America)

[graham4anything]

36. Polls are meaningless, like the gallop poll or the rasmussen one yesterday

matters little who votes.

It is why Hillary will win a mega landslide in 2016, because people will never admit to voting for her, and then like I presume happened with Nancy Reagan in 2008, she couldn't admit it, but I bet she voted for Obama.

Polls don't show things like that.

[premium]

43. If polls are meaningless,

then why did you start this asinine one?

[Savannahmann]

44. So your confidential poll was merely a loyalty test

I figured. Which is why I helped you out by listing the names. Down with the opponents of the Regime. Right?

[graham4anything]

51. No, it is meaningless. Because anyone can push either button and not mean it.

For all one knows, some of the people pushing B actually mean A but won't admit it

(like women in the red states when their tea party husband is standing next to them a call comes in asking who
they vote for in 2016, Jeb or Hillary, will say Jeb and vote for Hillary
(or vice a versa in say upstate New York, where the husband will say Hillary and vote for Jeb in the secrecy of the voting booth.

See?

[cali]

84. so why the fuck did you ask (more like accuse) me if my op was a loyalty test

and you have no fucking idea if women in red states do what you're claiming. gad. sexist dog shit too. great. go away.

[graham4anything]

89. because a loyalty test is NOT a poll.

a loyalty test is for all those with the same opinion, where NO opposition is wanted

a call out for this means there is NO that

Here there are two choices
a or b

Everyone has a voice and a choice

and I strongly back your right to your opinion, but that means I have an equal right to the opposite opinion

a poll therefore is NOT a loyalty test even if you say it is.

recent poll btw-
Hillary got 60% of the women's vote
while the male vote was in the margin of error vs. Jeb and Rubio or Rand.
SO I am using that poll which was posted on the board.

[cali]

93. grab a clue. any clue anywhere. My thread asking people to check in was sure as shit not a

loyalty test as YOU fucking implied. Your lame little poll is far more of one. No matter what crap you sputter.

[graham4anything]

95. no longer responding to you. I value your and everybody words,but I don't have to respond to them.

or is it required?

[cali]

105. good. that means that you'll keep your silliness out of my threads.

great news.

[graham4anything]

108. I will respond to political view points I disagree with. But I never cross the 3rd wall.

[cali]

34. Of one thing I'm certain: I don't stand with the likes of YOU.

[graham4anything]

39. I defend your right to your 1st amendment and vigourously defend your right to your viewpoint.

[Warren Stupidity]

133. hmmm... I think not. At least not from what I've seen.

[Puglover]

118. If Skinner and Earlg have this place on auto pilot

I would seriously suggest it's time to turn it off and fly the plane themselves. This place is becoming a parody.

I am loving your posts Cali.

[H2O Man]

37. silly

[cali]

38. trollish

[ucrdem]

42. But revealing.

[H2O Man]

71. Even if one were

to ignore this person's previous pattern -- which I do not recommend -- and take this poll as a sincere attempt to highlight some point or another, the OP only highlights the dangers that taking emotional shortcuts to rational thinking poses.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. You are too kind by half.

But I agree and hold my tongue.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

138. Zombie-ish --

They've been here before.

[Autumn]

165. Yeah, back in 2006

[Heddi]

169. you Better Believe It

!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

171. Nope.

This one is owned beer and travel money.

[Heddi]

172. two sides of the same coin

[magellan]

40. Our rights are not a fucking political football

...to be decided by party purists and their favorites. It's this precise attitude that has gotten us to where we are now. It's depraved.

This isn't kindergarten. Reasoning adults don't decide what's good policy based solely on the letter after the name of the person who proposes or supports it. They inform themselves on an issue and get behind everyone who defends what's best for the nation as a whole...or at least acknowledge that people of different viewpoints can agree on some things.

Maybe if more Americans grew the fuck up we'd actually start electing people who give a shit about this country.

[ucrdem]

46. Ignore politics at your peril.

It's not sports, it's not show biz for ugly people, it's people's lives. Why do we keep forgetting that?

[graham4anything]

56. There are always 2 choices when 270 counts.

everytime someone protested or voted for 3rd party, someone else won.

If voting were mandatory and 100% of the voters voted, the democratic party would win every time.

If fracture, only 25% needs to win, which helps the republican/tea party.

It is quite simple in actual raw numbers.

The poll above is 100% meaningless.

But 1952, 1956, 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, 2004 were 100% important and what did each have in common?

[magellan]

65. I have no idea

We used to make fun of and rage at the Repubs for doing this exact thing. Low information voters, we called them. As long as it had an R after their name, they supported it. They didn't care who it hurt, as long as it didn't (seem to) impact them. They're still that way. And they've got company.

My, how the worm turns. It's ugly and dismaying.

[ucrdem]

73. If Obama goes down, Jebster rises.

So do Rand Paul, Sarah Palin and the rest of that lot. Haven't we seen enough of them already?

[magellan]

77. Oh, pardon me

I mistook you for someone who cared about things outside of party.

If a Dem deserves my vote, s/he will get it. There are precious few who meet that criteria anymore. Grayson is my rep and he's one of the few.

[ucrdem]

82. That's generally how low information swing voters vote

and that's generally how repukes win elections. The fact is that there are some things more important than your personal feelings about a particular wedge issue or about Barack and Michelle, like the survival of the planet and everyone living on it.

[magellan]

94. My personal feelings about Obama don't come into it

That's where you and those like you are so wrong. But I guess when purity is one's goal, it's simple to lump the voices of dissent together. Because I'm finding the Dems are just as prone to it as the Repubs.

[ucrdem]

100. Okay. I don't mean you personally.

What I'm getting at is that the RW noise machine is very good at planting bees in the electorate's bonnet and getting swing voters to either stay home or vote for repukes because they don't trust Dems to keep them safe, or not to spy on their AOL chats or some damn thing. And that's exactly what NSA-gate is all about:

The CATO Institute is a RW think tank owned by the Koch brothers.

[magellan]

110. Yes they are good at that

And the Dems only take advantage of the same machine around election time. They're excellent at beating back the Repubs when votes are at stake. Why not the rest of the time? Why are they running around crying treason instead of agreeing that spying on every American was bad policy under Bush** and still is? Perhaps it's because too many of them voted right along with the Repubs to enact it? Or worse yet, believe in it?

I have no sympathy for the position the Dems have gotten themselves into by ceding to corporate interests and covering it up with ill-conceived attempts at bipartisanship to appeal to the mushy middle. I have no sympathy for them that they've tangled themselves up in their own lack of principle and refuse to speak out except around election time. They brought this on themselves and I won't enable them by forgetting this country is way more than Dem and Repub.

[calimary]

180. Unfortunately, a lot of the time, it IS show biz for ugly people.

I LOVE that, btw! It just nails the whole ball o' wax.

[premium]

48. Maybe if more Americans grew the fuck up we'd actually start electing people who give a shit about

this country.

Starting with the OP.

[magellan]

53. +1

[ananda]

47. I do not "stand" with either one.

I stand with humans and their human and constitutional rights.

[cali]

50. It's been pointed out to you repeatedly that contrary to your false fucking claim

this is anything but a confidential poll. Why won't you edit that out?

[Savannahmann]

55. Because he's identifying those of us who are disloyal

Then he will make sure the shadowy powers that run things will punish us. So start typing that you love the regime and are always loyal to the boot on your throat.

[ucrdem]

59. It's an internet poll.

Nobody's forcing anyone to vote. But I have to say I'm a little surprised at how few people support their own damn president when the chips are down.

[Bluenorthwest]

74. The question is not about the President anymore than DU polls are confidential

This OP exploits the President as a device of division among Democrats and that's a thing I hardly think Obama supports. I think the President would soundly reject this poll as nonsense indicative of nothing. The President never does 'us or them' he always speaks of inclusion, even of Republicans, even when they attack him. This OP is more like what his Republican opponents do than anything the President has ever said or done.
In the Senate, I stand with my Democratic Senators, elected to do what they are doing. The OP stands against my Senators and the People to support bad policy using an Obama wrapping paper to hide the goods.
Your claim that this OP equals Obama is an insult to Obama, told by way of insulting other Democrats. Do you see Obama as fodder to be used as one wishes? Is Obama incapable of speaking for himself? I don't.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

79. You shouldn't be surprised. When the President and the Constitution part ways,

people of conscience must act.

[HappyMe]

80. Agreed.

I can't believe how many people are freaking out about this. It's a discussion board, not a matter of life or death.

I don't think anybody signed anything in blood.

[idwiyo]

63. You'll need to post step by step video explaining to G4A why DU pols are not confidential.

Not that it will help though because "Hillary!!! Wellness!!! Yay Mike!!!" Or something along those lines.

[graham4anything]

68. Neither are phone numbers and never were. Phone books, party lines, $4.95 on google looks everything

[idwiyo]

76. Thank you for submitting a proof to my point. The sad part is you'll think I actually agree with you

[graham4anything]

78. I thought it was obvious that it was a satorical statement.That is why there is now a sarcasm smilie

Democratic people are suppose to understand sarcasm and irony

but I edited, and put a sarcasm smilie in there

but it was 100% obvious.

But btw, no one is spying, no one is looking at the info, and it is 100% legal as per the US Constitution.

[premium]

88. How do you know they're not?

It's secret, with a secret court and secret warrants, which goes against everything I was taught in school.
Can you guarantee that they're not spying on us? Can you guarantee that they're not looking at the info?
And just because some appellate court says it's legal doesn't mean it's moral.
We'll see what happens when it gets challenged at the SCOTUS.

[graham4anything]

90. and Ralph Nader's SCOTUS shall decide. Isn't it ironic?

What will John Roberts and Sam ALito do?
But then again, Gore would have named both, right?

btw, I use charmin with aloe.
I am not hiding that fact.
In fact, my supermarket sends me coupons in email(they know my email and phone #) to buy more of it.

[premium]

96. Not surprised you didn't answer my question.

You can't guarantee that the data being collected isn't being viewed or used, can you?

[graham4anything]

99. Yes, I did reply. They already know and it's all much ado about nothing

as they already know

It is simply evil genius that the Karl Rove's were able to make an issue out of this as it is their issue

but they overlook the good genius of Obama to rope the dopes again.

And btw, it's only for 90 days, so therefore, obviously, nothing was used against anyone except for perhaps a terrorist.

[arcane1]

54. Are you loyal to politicians or to principles? There are only two choices here.

[grahamhgreen]

57. As someone who works for a prominent ne0-c0n think tank, I agree with your framing! Heck,

let us ask, do you stand with President Obama or Hitler, only two choices here!

[TacoD]

58. Why is this troll allowed to remain here?

Yes I have a low post count, but I lurk a lot and enough is enough!

[QC]

81. He is due beer and travel money. n/t

[Hell Hath No Fury]

140. B-I-N-G-O.

You got it. Can't wait to see how this incarnation ends...

[cali]

86. I wish I knew. disgusting shit that he posts.

[Bobbie Jo]

194. Why are other trolls

Allowed to remain here?

When Admin starts taking requests I have a submission or two.

[HappyMe]

60. Fuck Rand Paul.

[G_j]

62. thanks for making this place entertaining

[sibelian]

66. Tenacity is a virtue, graham.

But only up to a point.

[William769]

67. Only two choices? I think not.

I have the choice to do whatever the fuck I want to do. At least for now.

I stand with the American people and the U.S. Constitution.

[Enrique]

69. omg a dilemma!

[Decoy of Fenris]

70. I like cheese. :)

[snot]

83. I note that so far, most DU'er's prefer "Pass" to both of the other options combined.

[Lizzie Poppet]

85. I suspect the majority of us can recognize a transparent "excluded middle" fallacy easily enough.

Ridiculous premise...

[graham4anything]

87. More than 50% of voters don't vote in most elections.

The point?
It is showing how Ralph Nader screwed around in 2000 and actions beget consequences.
And insert Rand Paul or Ron Paul and the same thing in 2016 will happen

HOWEVER
a vote for Rand Paul will not get anything a true democratic supporters would want

Because if you think Rand will dismantle the defense department, or stop wars, well, neither would Ron Paul.

[cali]

92. the point would be that your poll is obnoxious and stupid.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

119. Indeed, and logically it makes perfect sense for a person not to stand with either choice.

They can't both be in the right, but they can both be in the wrong.

[Whisp]

91. hee hee, I see what you did here. :)

I wonder if the people that picked Rand Paul over Obama in this poll know that they are being surveilled and we know who they are?

[Andy823]

102. I wondered the same thing.

At least 5 of the Rand Paul crowd have proved that there are Paul trolls on the board, although I think there are a lot more than just 5 of them!

[Whisp]

109. They are like tribbles lately! n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

98. While the OP claims there are 'only two choices' I see the poll itself has 3 choices

and that choice #3 leads the pack by a good margin. Choice #3 being a rejection of the poll itself an active, stated rejection of the OP itself.
Amazing how dishonest a person can be, to the point of claiming 2 choices when there are 3 choices offered, right there for all to see.

[graham4anything]

101. Keep it between the lines. I made TWO choices in my poll. I did not add a third.

Had I added no opinion, that would be 3 choices.

But one colors a picture, and keeps it between the lines.

the other must be in all polls, because I did not put it there.

C? No, just a or b.

keep it between the lines. Like when driving.

[Bluenorthwest]

111. And yet the Third choice is leading in your own poll, the vote rejects your binary

choice and opts for C, which is a rejection of the entire poll, premise, and poster.

[graham4anything]

113. in almost all elections in USA, the majority of people don't vote. In L.A.-70% did not vote.

and remember, poll companies call and only tell the results of people that answered.
some of them go to a different person, some just don't bother.

I do know that Hillary (or others) held a major lead over Rand in the polls where the 2 were against each other.
CC was the only one close to any other choice.

[hobbit709]

103. When you're known for word salad posts, logic is not included.

[Bluenorthwest]

112. Agreed, but counting to 3 is not exactly the realm of logic

nt

[hobbit709]

114. In some primitive cultures, counting was one, two, many.

[reusrename]

161. My monkey hindbrain has difficulty dealing with these esoteric concepts.

[Democracyinkind]

104. 2 Answers...

I stand with Obama as far as Snowden is concerned. What he outed seems legit to me.

I am, though, fundamentally opposed to Obama's policy in "GWOT". I'm starting to think that he is a proponent of the TIA illusion.

This while the philosophy behind TIA literally allowed 9/11 to happen.

[SlimJimmy]

106. "Be careful Admiral, it's a trap." (nt)

[Dr. Strange]

155. Admiral Ackbar says...

[reusrename]

157. ROFLMFAO!

[SlimJimmy]

159. Too funny ...

[Captain Stern]

183. Funny stuff (nt)

[geckosfeet]

107. false dichotomy. I understand it"s a poll. but it does not conform to reality.

[bobduca]

115. fuck this place is chock full of stupid today.

thanks for making it stupider.

[Zorra]

121. Darwin Awards will soon replace Nobel Prizes in our blossoming authoritarian idiocracy.

After idiocracy takes root, things go from stupid to stupider until the stupid gets so widespread that it kills the planet, as citizens ot the idicracy sit on the couch and watch the entire process on TV.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

117. graham4anything, your dry wit makes me laugh almost daily

You say your poll has two choices, yet it actually has three.

[graham4anything]

122. the other is put on every single poll I have been told. I only made 2 choices in my poll.

So people should pick either 1 or 2 as I didn't know there would be a no choice button.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

125. Wonderful deadpan reply.

[graham4anything]

127. I just put an edit note in the original to add that the 3rd was added without my knowledge

See, even on an internet poll, the choice is not always ours. It added something without my knowledge.

[Demo_Chris]

120. If you proved anything Graham, it was the opposite of what you hoped. nt

[think]

123. FWIW: I find encouragement in Obama's statement in regards to having a healthy discussion

on this important topic. George W Bush would never entertain such a discussion let alone welcome it.

The problems in regards to the NSA transcend Obama and I do not put the weight of these problems squarely on his shoulders. The NSA debacle did not start with Obama and the potential dismantling of the secrecy involved will require the effort of the entire nation.

On it's face, I support the bipartisan effort and legislation announced yesterday to open the FISA court rulings to the public and END SECRET LAW:

http://www.merkley.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=5D5997D9-4BA1-46C3-BA86-D208EC82A31E

I say on it's face because I cannot find a copy of the legislation yet.

As for the poll I chose option 3. If Obama gets a serious discussion going and the era of SECRET LAW is put to rest I'm sure my support for the prez and his agenda will change....

Cheers

[kpete]

124. bunk

[tarheelsunc]

126. So, at least 7 people on a DEMOCRATIC site support Rand F'ing Paul over Obama, SMH. eom

[Bobbie Jo]

129. This place is crawling with

Paulites and closet libertarians.

They are beyond obvious.

[Jim Lane]

142. Your charge ignores the context.

The clear implication is that the poll relates to the NSA issue.

An analogy: Suppose in 2002 someone had posted a similar poll about the Iraq War Resolution. John Kerry voted for it but Ron Paul voted against it. So how do you feel about IWR, you must stand with Paul or with Kerry, only two choices here, so anyone who opposes Bush's war of aggression is a Paulite who doesn't belong on DU?

[LanternWaste]

128. No. There are always additional choices beyond those our own minds may perceive.

"Only two choices here..."

No. There are always additional choices beyond those our own minds may perceive. "There are more things Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies..."

One additional choice I would imagine, is that some individuals (myself amongst them) may simply wait for additional information and analyses to present itself prior to coming to any conclusion.

However, I do understated the intractable biases and political dogmas that may compel the simple minded to reduce concepts to the Bush-like "you're either with us or against us" world-view.

[Savannahmann]

130. Another update on the disloyal.

Those who are not entirely loyal to the President and picked the option not to pick either option.

think, In_The_Wind, premium, Rise Rebel Resist, Egalitarian Thug, 11 Bravo, snot, sibelian, Ichingcarpenter, temmer, el_bryanto, pintobean, NCTraveler, cherokeeprogressive, MineralMan, Puzzledtraveller, QC, marions ghost, KarenS, MattBaggins, demmiblue, egduj, Luminous Animal, Nye Bevan, City Lights, me b zola, Evergreen Emerald, tomg, ananda, Jamastiene, grahamhgreen, G_j, hobbit709, Decoy of Fenris, Eddie Haskell, joeglow3, Waltons_Mtn, Junkdrawer, DisgustipatedinCA, Lizzie Poppet, cordelia, kentauros, Union Scribe, Jeff In Milwaukee, cali, Bluenorthwest, haikugal, geckosfeet, Douglas Carpenter, Xithras, Ptah, Seeking Serenity, geek tragedy, bobduca, Nimajneb Nilknarf, Small Accumulates, Demo_Chris, arcane1

Those who are flatly disloyal to the President, and we know who you are.

JW2020, Yo_Mama, bigwillq, echo4bravo, Ter, Cicada, galileoreloaded

And those who are properly loyal to the President. You will be rewarded by the regime.

Progressive dog, ucrdem, monmouth3, WovenGems, ColumbusLib, Demonaut, watercolors, southernyankeebelle, Special Prosciuto, krawhitham, lamp_shade, HappyMe, giftedgirl77, graham4anything, Flashmann, madokie, freshwest, warrior1, sigmasix, asjr, bama_blue_dot, Adelante, azlatina, longship, jwirr, tridim, Andy823, Tikki, StopTheNeoCons, Abukhatar, Whisp, Liberal_Stalwart71, TxVietVet, Auntie Bush, Tippy, discopants, Skidmore, bookcase10, FarCenter, siligut, tarheelsunc, jzola

Note to the members of the loyal. There will be an online briefing later to help you identify friends and family that do not espouse proper respect and admiration to the regime. Remember the secret signal to identify loyal members is to tug on the left earlobe twice while winking your right eye. The response is to tap your left foot three times in a casual manner.

[HappyMe]

132. LOL!

Oh my! A whole lot of effort you put in that, when everyone could just click on the doodad and see the names. So, is this supposed to "shame" those that clicked on the President or something? Oh the angst! I don't know how I shall bear it!

[Andy823]

168. So what "regime" to you bow down to?

Rand Paul, Jeb, Christie, W., Mickey Mouse, or most likely "Goofy"!

One thing for sure you really seem to like to keep things stirred up around here so I am sure your regime will be proud of you, whoever they may be!

[Savannahmann]

170. So because I disapprove of unconstitutional actions.

And I post about that, I stir things up. Interesting. If only I had a regime I could report to, perhaps I could have help researching things to refresh and check my memory. It would be a great help. Where would I find one?

I was mocking the asinine post, to which Graham added sarcasm belatedly, after I and others pointed out the foolishness of his post claiming it was confidential. It was an asinine loyalty test, and I always object to those. We draw strength from our diversity, getting the best from the many. To create some sort of litmus test, worse one so transparent as to be plastic wrap, was insulting, and I responded.

I would tell you how I voted, but that would be participating in the loyalty test. I would tell you whom I donated to, and again, that would be participating in the loyalty test. Each of my posts, every damn one has been on principles, and each one was based upon a good Liberal Principle learned over a lifetime. Principles I believe in often to my own detriment in South Georgia.

If you don't like it, put me on full ignore, but don't you dare challenge my integrity.

I wish you good day merely as a matter of form.

[Andy823]

173. So let me see now

You can make remarks about those who support the president, and those who wished to not vote, and make remarks about their "regime", and that's OK, but when you are challenged back, and asked what "regime" you belong to then that ticks you off. I simply call them as I see them if you don't like that then you too may feel free to put me on your ignore list, no problem.

And I wish you a good day too.

[Savannahmann]

175. I was ticked off because you came late to the party, and then jumped in

Jumping in without knowing the sequence of events. Then you allude that I am part of the RW Regime and a Troll.

I would explain further, but you simply aren't worth the effort. Go on, track down the rest of us who are disloyal and turn our names in.

[Andy823]

182. No I did not come late

You posted he names of those who supported the president the "loyalists", I was one of them. You made remarks about us and our "regime" being happy with us.

You posted about those who did not want to vote and made remarks about them. I never called you a troll, I simply asked what regime "you" reported to. All I said is you seem to like to stir things up, simple observation.

Unlike you I am willing to explain things. I don't track down anyone nor do I turn them in. I just think that when you go after those who support the president and make snide remarks about us you should expect a response.

[Union Scribe]

187. Soon he will have enough names to forward to the White House. nt

[sabrina 1]

206. Lol!

I hope the properly loyal have good eye/hand coordination. It would be a sad thing indeed if any of them were to accidentally give the wrong secret signal and find themselves among the flatly disloyal contingency. Imagine the horror, the shame, the fear!

[Apophis]

131. Of all the idiotic posts you've ever posted, this is the most idiotic.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

134. I stand with the 4th Amendment, and against Big Brother (R) or (D).

[L0oniX]

135. DUzy ...for the most moronic poll to ever hit the html of DU.

[Bradical79]

136. Pass, this isn't a personality cult. Or it shouldn't be.

Though if Paul decides to stand with liberals on an issue I'm certainly not going to stop him.

[kenny blankenship]

137. You can stand w the Constitution, or you can stand w the conspiracy to turn it into a dead letter

THAT IS THE ONLY QUESTION HERE. I stand with the Constitution.

[MattSh]

139. My feelings...

[Jim Lane]

143. Such a huge "Pass" vote shows that the poll is absurd.

I'm wondering if this poll has set the DU record for highest percentage of respondents who reject all the options offered by the author. Does anyone remember another poll where "Pass" reached these levels?

[bvar22]

148. When it comes to:

[font size=3]*Ending the failed and expensive War on Drugs

*Ending our Foreign Occupations and slashing Defense Spending

*Protecting the Bill of Rights, especially the 4th Amendment protections against government spying without a warrant naming the specific item and place,
[/font]

.....I will proudly stand with other Americans who agree with me on these issues.
I believe I saw Ron Paul Standing With Me a few years ago on these issues.
Of course, I'm not in charge of what any "Paul" chooses to stand for.
I wish more politicians in the Democratic Party leadership had the courage to stand with me on these issues.
America would be a much better place if they did.



[font size=3]
CENTRISM!!!!!....because its so damned EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING,
and get to insult those who do![/font]



You will know them by their WORKS.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Lady Freedom Returns]

149. My answer:

[bvar22]

150. You've exceeded my lowest expectations with this post.

I'm going to give it a Recommend,
for more exposure.
I certainly will NOT Stand With YOU when it comes to embarrassing, grade school Push Polls like this one.
Like a stalker persecuting the Woman of his Obsession,
this kind of crap does WAY more harm than good for the person you claim to love.


[font size=3]If you don't STAND for something,
you'll fall4anything.[/font]

[pnwmom]

154. So what are the Rand people doing here?

[Andy823]

166. Trolling

I think we have a lot of right wing trolls and now some Rand Paul trolls trying to keep things stirred up and divide people on the board. Add those to the regular anti Obama posters and it's pretty easy to keep blaming the president for everything that goes wrong. So far at least 12 Rand Paul club members have voted!

[cherokeeprogressive]

174. DUing a poll. n/t

[Electric Monk]

156. And the winner is...... PASS!

[apples and oranges]

158. I don't think it's about that

Assuming this is about the NSA, for me, it's not about standing behind one person or another. This is a complex issue that doesn't fit neatly into one ideology. There will be well meaning democrats who happen to side with Paul (whether Paul is sincere or not is a completely separate issue) and teabaggers siding with Obama. As long as people are being sincere and not simply trying to derail Obama, then I don't have a problem with different opinions.

I tend to be a realist, so my only question is: Were any laws broken and why did some senators vote to allow these powers without understanding what the powers entailed?

[Agony]

160. the "you are either with us or against us" oath is just a dumb as if GWarBush had proclaimed it.

[lunasun]

181. Exactly !!

[lumberjack_jeff]

163. If Rand Paul were to tell me that it's suppertime, I'm not going to go hungry to prove him wrong. nt

[TheKentuckian]

164. In what regard? Typically neither seems to be standing with me

[LWolf]

167. Other: neither.

I don't stand "with" people. I stand for issues.

It's not about personalities. It's about the issue.

Push polls are fraudulent.

[Skittles]

176. LOL

YOU GET MORE RIDICULOUS BY THE DAY

[Life Long Dem]

177. Only 2 real choices, unless you pass

So that makes 3 choices in all. Damn... This is a tough choice.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

184. Nonsensical Push poll

[donheld]

185. I stand with the American People. Not Obama, Rand or any individual.

[avaistheone1]

186. I vote for that.

[LeftishBrit]

188. Except that there are never only two choices

That reminds me of Bush's 'Either you are with us or with the terrorists'

I greatly prefer Obama to Rand (whether you mean Ayn Rand or Rand Paul or both); and would vote for him if I lived in America, whereas I wouldn't waste my spit on either Rand; I HATE them like poison. But there are some things that all American presidents do, with which I disagree, such as spying on their own citizens and their allies such as us Brits, and being insufficiently progressive on economic issues.

[Spider Jerusalem]

189. This is a painfully stupid characterisation of the issue

a fairer and more reasonable question would be "do you support the right of privacy, or do you support government agencies being able to access data without warrants, or through the operation of secret courts whose deliberations and decisions are not a matter of public record?"

Those are the real choices here.

[graham4anything]

190. no, that would be your poll, feel free to start your own. That is not my poll. nt.

[Spider Jerusalem]

191. Your poll is stupid.

And that's the question you're really asking anyway, considering the context.

[graham4anything]

192. No, my question is specific. Feel free to start your own poll. I voted in mine. nt.

[Spider Jerusalem]

193. Your question is specific in relation to the particular issue of NSA access to data.

Context matters.

[graham4anything]

196. no, my question is not specific to that smear. It is specific to the question that was asked.

My answer was
I do NOT stand for anything Rand.
If he stands, I sit.
If he sits, I stand.

but so far Obama leads Rand aobut 8 to 1.

In Los Angeles, they just ran a mayors race and only something like 33% voted, meaning 67% didn't.
for comparison sake.

[pintobean]

197. "for comparison sake"

how many LA voters showed up at the polls and voted for none of the above?

In your poll, 55% of the people who voted chose to pass. They showed up to tell you that you gave shitty choices.

[graham4anything]

198. No, the third choice is automatic. I only made two choices, and the third choice is on any poll.

had I put a neither, it would not have made it 3 choices, it would have made it 4
There is always one more on any poll I have been told.

[pintobean]

199. I have been told

that logic evades some people, but I find that it's usually the other way around.

[unreadierLizard]

195. I stand with whoever stands up against

unlawful surveillance of Americans and their personal lives. I opposed it when Bush did it, I oppose it now that Obama continues Bush's policy.

Rights are not politically defined. Sometimes you have to stand with those who you disagree with.

"I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it".

Who gives a flying fuck about who's "side" you are on? You should be on the side of your rights under the Constitution - regardless of who you share an opinion with.

[graham4anything]

200. OK, admin said, indeed the third choice was added by the computer itself, not me.

Therefore, it proves I did not know there would be 3 choices but only 2 showed up

It seems the software for these polls puts in the Pass on giving an answer choice automatically in polls such as these.

Perhaps, I should edit or start a different poll with more choices, but that wouldn't be fair to everyone who already voted.

I sure wish back in school, that there was a don't want to give an answer choice, when the teach presented me with only
two choices
True
False
that way I could have aced every single test.
As it was, I was never good at multiple choice tests, but I got straight a's in every single writing course I took.

[Bonobo]

201. "I got straight a's in every single writing course."

[pintobean]

203. This may help

http://www.ehow.com/how_8251412_improve-powers-observation.html

[liberal_at_heart]

205. I stand with the 4th Amendment and the citizens it protects.