Do you Stand with Rand or with President Obama. Only two choices here.
Last edited Wed Jun 12, 2013, 09:52 AM - Edit history (2)
this is a confidential poll, so please answer honestly.
No one is tracking anything.
I stand with the President.
edited to put sarcasm smilie in what was obvious an ironic joke.
edit to add- I did not realize that automatically the poll adds a no opinion or no vote choice.
I only made the two
So I guess there are 3 choices, but my poll stated only 2
|25 votes, 21 passes | Time left: Unlimited|
|I stand with Rand|
|I have the back of President Obama|
|21 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.|
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
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As a message board, this site is incapable of dealing with more than one issue at a time, with the exception of small intervals of overlap - at which time the 'ancient' issue falls rapidly out of favor. Remember gun legislation? Me either.
In the particular topic you are referring to. This would allow respondents to know choose between Paul's or Obama's argument.
The choice isn't that simple.
First, it's never a confidential poll, you can click on show usernames and see who voted for what.
Second, why reduce the question to the personalities of those involved? How someone else thinks only matters to me if they are able to make an argument which causes me to reconsider my position. So far, President Obama's argument has been if we don't trust the Government, we have a problem, and we can trust that the Government is not reading our messages and listening to our phone calls.
So let's for the sake of argument say that he is telling the truth. He has been told, and honestly believes that they are not reading our messages and listening to our phone calls. Truman ordered the Venona project shut down, and was told that it was shut down. But the CIA which Truman started, never stopped the project which dated back to pre WW II. So even if I trust President Obama so explicitly, even he can not guarantee that those 4 million Top Secret clearance holders are all obeying his orders. No one can guarantee that.
So why did you post this question with the obviously disproven assertion that it is confidential, because anyone can click and see usernames, that way? Wouldn't it have been more honest to ask if we stood with the constitution or the need for security?
No, you made it a loyalty test, one that you and other boundless full throated defenders of party over principle would use to try and smoke out those of us who are disloyal.
Furthermore, it is not a confidential poll, genius. The admins have access to who voted what. ]
Certainly ONE of the stupidest.
And, btw, ANY of us can see who voted for what by clicking on "Show usernames."
i guess i'm inadequate when creating stupid things...
Not just a matter of people. On which case there are many choices. There are many subsidiary issues too.
SCOTUS showed Nader was wrong
unless of course, you believe Gore would have nominated Scalia and Alito and Roberts and Thomas
there are only two choices for everything
you live in a scary little black and white world.
shove your loyalty oath shit right up....
voted for Paul. I would love to have seen the reaction from the 'my party can do no wrong' contingency.
and, because people voted for Reagan in 1980 (WHY???) the justices in place in 2000 were there.
Why did so many democratic voters stray in 1980?
It goes with what I said.
John Anderson was the Nader of 1980, as was fracture due to petty in fighting between the two camps of democratic voters
The people in Florida had the choice to punch the hole for "Gore" or to punch the hole for "Not Gore".
On an unrelated subject that you brought up, why do you think NH is such a Democratic lock? I spend a decent amount of time there and in my experience it is by far the most conservative of the New England states.
That's all this is, a loyalty test, with the show usernames, a falsely advertised one to boot.
And you already knew that
I don't want to kill the puppies, but I can't eat the cheesecake.
rather than any individual.
I do not think that makes me an enemy of anyone, even if that person seems to be temporarily on the other side of the debate. I think the Constitution protects us all.
My father's family was harried out of Europe in the runup to WWII. The type of mindset we have been developing in the US is not healthy, and in certain hands it could turn out to be terribly dangerous. Therefore, I wish to change it. And I will stand with anyone who also wishes to change it.
I think that anyone who doesn't is an enemy of the Democratic party and betraying the president, because without democracy there will be no real "Democratic" party. You can't have the big D without the small D.
Response to graham4anything (Original post)
there was an uproar when a few people (not me) made a comment against the heckler
yet, a few people said a view against Alan Grayson and wow, the same people who railed against those heckling,
railed against the view of Grayson
(and those were not hecklers, just viewpoints).
Ironic, isn't it?
Censorship is a job you volunteered to do here. Many here see the OP as disruptive.
Don't get me wrong, HappyMe, I like you, and I appreciate all who serve on MIRT. I'm just pointing out how others may see this.
and the really creepy trolls. If you think it's about censorship, you have the wrong idea.
I have a feeling that there are quite a few people that others find 'disruptive'. You can't please everybody, all of the time.
Put him on ignore or trash his threads or scroll right past.
and all subthreads that point out what this is, get alerted and deleted...
(at the time of this post) reject your transparently misdirective false dichotomy.
17 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided
for Obama - 11
for Rand - 2
see my point?
Same in 2010.
all protest does is give to the other side a victory they should not have had happened.
It wasn't so much that Nader's vote totals of people voted
It was perhaps upward of millions who specifically stayed home believing him in 2000
and did not vote at all.
so we got corporate personhood and 2 wars because of those non-voters and all the not voting for Gore voters.
The less than loyal members so far are... think, In_The_Wind, Egalitarian Thug, sibelian, Ichingcarpenter, temmer, el_bryanto, pintobean, NCTraveler, cherokeeprogressive, MineralMan, Puzzledtraveller, QC, marions ghost, KarenS, MattBaggins, demmiblue
The outright disloyal members are. JW2020, Yo_Mama
Is that the information you were trying to get Graham?
The list will be compiled later, when we can identify all those who are less than loyal are identified. What a crock of (expletive deleted by Censors for a better America)
matters little who votes.
It is why Hillary will win a mega landslide in 2016, because people will never admit to voting for her, and then like I presume happened with Nancy Reagan in 2008, she couldn't admit it, but I bet she voted for Obama.
Polls don't show things like that.
I figured. Which is why I helped you out by listing the names. Down with the opponents of the Regime. Right?
For all one knows, some of the people pushing B actually mean A but won't admit it
(like women in the red states when their tea party husband is standing next to them a call comes in asking who
they vote for in 2016, Jeb or Hillary, will say Jeb and vote for Hillary
(or vice a versa in say upstate New York, where the husband will say Hillary and vote for Jeb in the secrecy of the voting booth.
and you have no fucking idea if women in red states do what you're claiming. gad. sexist dog shit too. great. go away.
a loyalty test is for all those with the same opinion, where NO opposition is wanted
a call out for this means there is NO that
Here there are two choices
a or b
Everyone has a voice and a choice
and I strongly back your right to your opinion, but that means I have an equal right to the opposite opinion
a poll therefore is NOT a loyalty test even if you say it is.
recent poll btw-
Hillary got 60% of the women's vote
while the male vote was in the margin of error vs. Jeb and Rubio or Rand.
SO I am using that poll which was posted on the board.
loyalty test as YOU fucking implied. Your lame little poll is far more of one. No matter what crap you sputter.
or is it required?
I would seriously suggest it's time to turn it off and fly the plane themselves. This place is becoming a parody.
I am loving your posts Cali.
to ignore this person's previous pattern -- which I do not recommend -- and take this poll as a sincere attempt to highlight some point or another, the OP only highlights the dangers that taking emotional shortcuts to rational thinking poses.
...to be decided by party purists and their favorites. It's this precise attitude that has gotten us to where we are now. It's depraved.
This isn't kindergarten. Reasoning adults don't decide what's good policy based solely on the letter after the name of the person who proposes or supports it. They inform themselves on an issue and get behind everyone who defends what's best for the nation as a whole...or at least acknowledge that people of different viewpoints can agree on some things.
Maybe if more Americans grew the fuck up we'd actually start electing people who give a shit about this country.
It's not sports, it's not show biz for ugly people, it's people's lives. Why do we keep forgetting that?
everytime someone protested or voted for 3rd party, someone else won.
If voting were mandatory and 100% of the voters voted, the democratic party would win every time.
If fracture, only 25% needs to win, which helps the republican/tea party.
It is quite simple in actual raw numbers.
The poll above is 100% meaningless.
But 1952, 1956, 1968, 1972, 1980, 1984, 1988, 2000, 2004 were 100% important and what did each have in common?
We used to make fun of and rage at the Repubs for doing this exact thing. Low information voters, we called them. As long as it had an R after their name, they supported it. They didn't care who it hurt, as long as it didn't (seem to) impact them. They're still that way. And they've got company.
My, how the worm turns. It's ugly and dismaying.
So do Rand Paul, Sarah Palin and the rest of that lot. Haven't we seen enough of them already?
I mistook you for someone who cared about things outside of party.
If a Dem deserves my vote, s/he will get it. There are precious few who meet that criteria anymore. Grayson is my rep and he's one of the few.
and that's generally how repukes win elections. The fact is that there are some things more important than your personal feelings about a particular wedge issue or about Barack and Michelle, like the survival of the planet and everyone living on it.
That's where you and those like you are so wrong. But I guess when purity is one's goal, it's simple to lump the voices of dissent together. Because I'm finding the Dems are just as prone to it as the Repubs.
What I'm getting at is that the RW noise machine is very good at planting bees in the electorate's bonnet and getting swing voters to either stay home or vote for repukes because they don't trust Dems to keep them safe, or not to spy on their AOL chats or some damn thing. And that's exactly what NSA-gate is all about:
The CATO Institute is a RW think tank owned by the Koch brothers.
And the Dems only take advantage of the same machine around election time. They're excellent at beating back the Repubs when votes are at stake. Why not the rest of the time? Why are they running around crying treason instead of agreeing that spying on every American was bad policy under Bush** and still is? Perhaps it's because too many of them voted right along with the Repubs to enact it? Or worse yet, believe in it?
I have no sympathy for the position the Dems have gotten themselves into by ceding to corporate interests and covering it up with ill-conceived attempts at bipartisanship to appeal to the mushy middle. I have no sympathy for them that they've tangled themselves up in their own lack of principle and refuse to speak out except around election time. They brought this on themselves and I won't enable them by forgetting this country is way more than Dem and Repub.
I LOVE that, btw! It just nails the whole ball o' wax.
Starting with the OP.
I stand with humans and their human and constitutional rights.
this is anything but a confidential poll. Why won't you edit that out?
Then he will make sure the shadowy powers that run things will punish us. So start typing that you love the regime and are always loyal to the boot on your throat.
Nobody's forcing anyone to vote. But I have to say I'm a little surprised at how few people support their own damn president when the chips are down.
This OP exploits the President as a device of division among Democrats and that's a thing I hardly think Obama supports. I think the President would soundly reject this poll as nonsense indicative of nothing. The President never does 'us or them' he always speaks of inclusion, even of Republicans, even when they attack him. This OP is more like what his Republican opponents do than anything the President has ever said or done.
In the Senate, I stand with my Democratic Senators, elected to do what they are doing. The OP stands against my Senators and the People to support bad policy using an Obama wrapping paper to hide the goods.
Your claim that this OP equals Obama is an insult to Obama, told by way of insulting other Democrats. Do you see Obama as fodder to be used as one wishes? Is Obama incapable of speaking for himself? I don't.
people of conscience must act.
I can't believe how many people are freaking out about this. It's a discussion board, not a matter of life or death.
I don't think anybody signed anything in blood.
Not that it will help though because "Hillary!!! Wellness!!! Yay Mike!!!" Or something along those lines.
Democratic people are suppose to understand sarcasm and irony
but I edited, and put a sarcasm smilie in there
but it was 100% obvious.
But btw, no one is spying, no one is looking at the info, and it is 100% legal as per the US Constitution.
It's secret, with a secret court and secret warrants, which goes against everything I was taught in school.
Can you guarantee that they're not spying on us? Can you guarantee that they're not looking at the info?
And just because some appellate court says it's legal doesn't mean it's moral.
We'll see what happens when it gets challenged at the SCOTUS.
What will John Roberts and Sam ALito do?
But then again, Gore would have named both, right?
btw, I use charmin with aloe.
I am not hiding that fact.
In fact, my supermarket sends me coupons in email(they know my email and phone #) to buy more of it.
You can't guarantee that the data being collected isn't being viewed or used, can you?
as they already know
It is simply evil genius that the Karl Rove's were able to make an issue out of this as it is their issue
but they overlook the good genius of Obama to rope the dopes again.
And btw, it's only for 90 days, so therefore, obviously, nothing was used against anyone except for perhaps a terrorist.
let us ask, do you stand with President Obama or Hitler, only two choices here!
Yes I have a low post count, but I lurk a lot and enough is enough!
Allowed to remain here?
When Admin starts taking requests I have a submission or two.
I have the choice to do whatever the fuck I want to do. At least for now.
I stand with the American people and the U.S. Constitution.
It is showing how Ralph Nader screwed around in 2000 and actions beget consequences.
And insert Rand Paul or Ron Paul and the same thing in 2016 will happen
a vote for Rand Paul will not get anything a true democratic supporters would want
Because if you think Rand will dismantle the defense department, or stop wars, well, neither would Ron Paul.
They can't both be in the right, but they can both be in the wrong.
I wonder if the people that picked Rand Paul over Obama in this poll know that they are being surveilled and we know who they are?
At least 5 of the Rand Paul crowd have proved that there are Paul trolls on the board, although I think there are a lot more than just 5 of them!
and that choice #3 leads the pack by a good margin. Choice #3 being a rejection of the poll itself an active, stated rejection of the OP itself.
Amazing how dishonest a person can be, to the point of claiming 2 choices when there are 3 choices offered, right there for all to see.
Had I added no opinion, that would be 3 choices.
But one colors a picture, and keeps it between the lines.
the other must be in all polls, because I did not put it there.
C? No, just a or b.
keep it between the lines. Like when driving.
choice and opts for C, which is a rejection of the entire poll, premise, and poster.
and remember, poll companies call and only tell the results of people that answered.
some of them go to a different person, some just don't bother.
I do know that Hillary (or others) held a major lead over Rand in the polls where the 2 were against each other.
CC was the only one close to any other choice.
I stand with Obama as far as Snowden is concerned. What he outed seems legit to me.
I am, though, fundamentally opposed to Obama's policy in "GWOT". I'm starting to think that he is a proponent of the TIA illusion.
This while the philosophy behind TIA literally allowed 9/11 to happen.
After idiocracy takes root, things go from stupid to stupider until the stupid gets so widespread that it kills the planet, as citizens ot the idicracy sit on the couch and watch the entire process on TV.
You say your poll has two choices, yet it actually has three.
So people should pick either 1 or 2 as I didn't know there would be a no choice button.
See, even on an internet poll, the choice is not always ours. It added something without my knowledge.
on this important topic. George W Bush would never entertain such a discussion let alone welcome it.
The problems in regards to the NSA transcend Obama and I do not put the weight of these problems squarely on his shoulders. The NSA debacle did not start with Obama and the potential dismantling of the secrecy involved will require the effort of the entire nation.
On it's face, I support the bipartisan effort and legislation announced yesterday to open the FISA court rulings to the public and END SECRET LAW:
I say on it's face because I cannot find a copy of the legislation yet.
As for the poll I chose option 3. If Obama gets a serious discussion going and the era of SECRET LAW is put to rest I'm sure my support for the prez and his agenda will change....
The clear implication is that the poll relates to the NSA issue.
An analogy: Suppose in 2002 someone had posted a similar poll about the Iraq War Resolution. John Kerry voted for it but Ron Paul voted against it. So how do you feel about IWR, you must stand with Paul or with Kerry, only two choices here, so anyone who opposes Bush's war of aggression is a Paulite who doesn't belong on DU?
"Only two choices here..."
No. There are always additional choices beyond those our own minds may perceive. "There are more things Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies..."
One additional choice I would imagine, is that some individuals (myself amongst them) may simply wait for additional information and analyses to present itself prior to coming to any conclusion.
However, I do understated the intractable biases and political dogmas that may compel the simple minded to reduce concepts to the Bush-like "you're either with us or against us" world-view.
Those who are not entirely loyal to the President and picked the option not to pick either option.
think, In_The_Wind, premium, Rise Rebel Resist, Egalitarian Thug, 11 Bravo, snot, sibelian, Ichingcarpenter, temmer, el_bryanto, pintobean, NCTraveler, cherokeeprogressive, MineralMan, Puzzledtraveller, QC, marions ghost, KarenS, MattBaggins, demmiblue, egduj, Luminous Animal, Nye Bevan, City Lights, me b zola, Evergreen Emerald, tomg, ananda, Jamastiene, grahamhgreen, G_j, hobbit709, Decoy of Fenris, Eddie Haskell, joeglow3, Waltons_Mtn, Junkdrawer, DisgustipatedinCA, Lizzie Poppet, cordelia, kentauros, Union Scribe, Jeff In Milwaukee, cali, Bluenorthwest, haikugal, geckosfeet, Douglas Carpenter, Xithras, Ptah, Seeking Serenity, geek tragedy, bobduca, Nimajneb Nilknarf, Small Accumulates, Demo_Chris, arcane1
Those who are flatly disloyal to the President, and we know who you are.
JW2020, Yo_Mama, bigwillq, echo4bravo, Ter, Cicada, galileoreloaded
And those who are properly loyal to the President. You will be rewarded by the regime.
Progressive dog, ucrdem, monmouth3, WovenGems, ColumbusLib, Demonaut, watercolors, southernyankeebelle, Special Prosciuto, krawhitham, lamp_shade, HappyMe, giftedgirl77, graham4anything, Flashmann, madokie, freshwest, warrior1, sigmasix, asjr, bama_blue_dot, Adelante, azlatina, longship, jwirr, tridim, Andy823, Tikki, StopTheNeoCons, Abukhatar, Whisp, Liberal_Stalwart71, TxVietVet, Auntie Bush, Tippy, discopants, Skidmore, bookcase10, FarCenter, siligut, tarheelsunc, jzola
Note to the members of the loyal. There will be an online briefing later to help you identify friends and family that do not espouse proper respect and admiration to the regime. Remember the secret signal to identify loyal members is to tug on the left earlobe twice while winking your right eye. The response is to tap your left foot three times in a casual manner.
Oh my! A whole lot of effort you put in that, when everyone could just click on the doodad and see the names. So, is this supposed to "shame" those that clicked on the President or something? Oh the angst! I don't know how I shall bear it!
Rand Paul, Jeb, Christie, W., Mickey Mouse, or most likely "Goofy"!
One thing for sure you really seem to like to keep things stirred up around here so I am sure your regime will be proud of you, whoever they may be!
And I post about that, I stir things up. Interesting. If only I had a regime I could report to, perhaps I could have help researching things to refresh and check my memory. It would be a great help. Where would I find one?
I was mocking the asinine post, to which Graham added sarcasm belatedly, after I and others pointed out the foolishness of his post claiming it was confidential. It was an asinine loyalty test, and I always object to those. We draw strength from our diversity, getting the best from the many. To create some sort of litmus test, worse one so transparent as to be plastic wrap, was insulting, and I responded.
I would tell you how I voted, but that would be participating in the loyalty test. I would tell you whom I donated to, and again, that would be participating in the loyalty test. Each of my posts, every damn one has been on principles, and each one was based upon a good Liberal Principle learned over a lifetime. Principles I believe in often to my own detriment in South Georgia.
If you don't like it, put me on full ignore, but don't you dare challenge my integrity.
I wish you good day merely as a matter of form.
You can make remarks about those who support the president, and those who wished to not vote, and make remarks about their "regime", and that's OK, but when you are challenged back, and asked what "regime" you belong to then that ticks you off. I simply call them as I see them if you don't like that then you too may feel free to put me on your ignore list, no problem.
And I wish you a good day too.
Jumping in without knowing the sequence of events. Then you allude that I am part of the RW Regime and a Troll.
I would explain further, but you simply aren't worth the effort. Go on, track down the rest of us who are disloyal and turn our names in.
You posted he names of those who supported the president the "loyalists", I was one of them. You made remarks about us and our "regime" being happy with us.
You posted about those who did not want to vote and made remarks about them. I never called you a troll, I simply asked what regime "you" reported to. All I said is you seem to like to stir things up, simple observation.
Unlike you I am willing to explain things. I don't track down anyone nor do I turn them in. I just think that when you go after those who support the president and make snide remarks about us you should expect a response.
I hope the properly loyal have good eye/hand coordination. It would be a sad thing indeed if any of them were to accidentally give the wrong secret signal and find themselves among the flatly disloyal contingency. Imagine the horror, the shame, the fear!
Though if Paul decides to stand with liberals on an issue I'm certainly not going to stop him.
THAT IS THE ONLY QUESTION HERE. I stand with the Constitution.
I'm wondering if this poll has set the DU record for highest percentage of respondents who reject all the options offered by the author. Does anyone remember another poll where "Pass" reached these levels?
[font size=3]*Ending the failed and expensive War on Drugs
*Ending our Foreign Occupations and slashing Defense Spending
*Protecting the Bill of Rights, especially the 4th Amendment protections against government spying without a warrant naming the specific item and place,
.....I will proudly stand with other Americans who agree with me on these issues.
I believe I saw Ron Paul Standing With Me a few years ago on these issues.
Of course, I'm not in charge of what any "Paul" chooses to stand for.
I wish more politicians in the Democratic Party leadership had the courage to stand with me on these issues.
America would be a much better place if they did.
CENTRISM!!!!!....because its so damned EASY!
You don't have to STAND for ANYTHING,
and get to insult those who do![/font]
You will know them by their WORKS.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
I'm going to give it a Recommend,
for more exposure.
I certainly will NOT Stand With YOU when it comes to embarrassing, grade school Push Polls like this one.
Like a stalker persecuting the Woman of his Obsession,
this kind of crap does WAY more harm than good for the person you claim to love.
[font size=3]If you don't STAND for something,
I think we have a lot of right wing trolls and now some Rand Paul trolls trying to keep things stirred up and divide people on the board. Add those to the regular anti Obama posters and it's pretty easy to keep blaming the president for everything that goes wrong. So far at least 12 Rand Paul club members have voted!
Assuming this is about the NSA, for me, it's not about standing behind one person or another. This is a complex issue that doesn't fit neatly into one ideology. There will be well meaning democrats who happen to side with Paul (whether Paul is sincere or not is a completely separate issue) and teabaggers siding with Obama. As long as people are being sincere and not simply trying to derail Obama, then I don't have a problem with different opinions.
I tend to be a realist, so my only question is: Were any laws broken and why did some senators vote to allow these powers without understanding what the powers entailed?
I don't stand "with" people. I stand for issues.
It's not about personalities. It's about the issue.
Push polls are fraudulent.
So that makes 3 choices in all. Damn... This is a tough choice.
That reminds me of Bush's 'Either you are with us or with the terrorists'
I greatly prefer Obama to Rand (whether you mean Ayn Rand or Rand Paul or both); and would vote for him if I lived in America, whereas I wouldn't waste my spit on either Rand; I HATE them like poison. But there are some things that all American presidents do, with which I disagree, such as spying on their own citizens and their allies such as us Brits, and being insufficiently progressive on economic issues.
a fairer and more reasonable question would be "do you support the right of privacy, or do you support government agencies being able to access data without warrants, or through the operation of secret courts whose deliberations and decisions are not a matter of public record?"
Those are the real choices here.
And that's the question you're really asking anyway, considering the context.
My answer was
I do NOT stand for anything Rand.
If he stands, I sit.
If he sits, I stand.
but so far Obama leads Rand aobut 8 to 1.
In Los Angeles, they just ran a mayors race and only something like 33% voted, meaning 67% didn't.
for comparison sake.
how many LA voters showed up at the polls and voted for none of the above?
In your poll, 55% of the people who voted chose to pass. They showed up to tell you that you gave shitty choices.
had I put a neither, it would not have made it 3 choices, it would have made it 4
There is always one more on any poll I have been told.
that logic evades some people, but I find that it's usually the other way around.
unlawful surveillance of Americans and their personal lives. I opposed it when Bush did it, I oppose it now that Obama continues Bush's policy.
Rights are not politically defined. Sometimes you have to stand with those who you disagree with.
"I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it".
Who gives a flying fuck about who's "side" you are on? You should be on the side of your rights under the Constitution - regardless of who you share an opinion with.
Therefore, it proves I did not know there would be 3 choices but only 2 showed up
It seems the software for these polls puts in the Pass on giving an answer choice automatically in polls such as these.
Perhaps, I should edit or start a different poll with more choices, but that wouldn't be fair to everyone who already voted.
I sure wish back in school, that there was a don't want to give an answer choice, when the teach presented me with only
that way I could have aced every single test.
As it was, I was never good at multiple choice tests, but I got straight a's in every single writing course I took.