Should sex between an 18 year old and someone younger than a specified age always be illegal?

[Nye Bevan]

I'm trying to get some clarity on what DU thinks the age of consent should be when the older partner is 18. So for this poll, assume that the older partner is aged 18 and pick the option for where you think the age of consent for the younger partner should be (meaning that sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of consent would always be illegal, regardless of whether the younger party resisted or putatively consented).

13 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	No. Sex between an 18 year old and someone younger than 11 should be legal in certain circumstances.
	0 (0%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 11 should always be illegal.
	0 (0%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 12 should always be illegal.
	1 (8%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 13 should always be illegal.
	0 (0%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 14 should always be illegal.
	1 (8%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 15 should always be illegal.
	1 (8%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 16 should always be illegal.
	10 (77%)
	Yes. Sex between an 18 year old and someone below the age of 17 should always be illegal.
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Tx4obama]

1. One of my aunts, that lived two doors down from me when growing up, was married when she was 13.

Her husband died when he was in his late 70s and she in her late 80s.

They had a very long happy marriage.

May they both rest in peace.

[WinkyDink]

34. Did she marry a three-year-old? WTH??

[Tx4obama]

40. Huh? He was older than her. He died first. She lived many more years after his death.

They did not die at the same time

[WinkyDink]

43. I didn't consider that!

[Robb]

2. Raising the age of consent to 35 would solve a lot of problems. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

3. I'm so hard core, I think it should be illegal for someone to masturbate on their own 18th birthday.

Better safe than sorry.

[MNBrewer]

4. I have adult gay male friends who were seeking out sex with adult men when they were 14

Who is the "criminal" there?

[nomorenomore08]

5. I guess it's not as black and white as some of us (maybe most) would like it to be.

And I'm not king of the world - just because something creeps me out personally, doesn't give me the right to condemn or persecute anyone. For instance, while I may not exactly "approve" (whatever that means) of the relationship between Kaitlyn Hunt and the younger girl, I don't think she should have been expelled from school or charged with multiple felonies. Nor would I support that treatment of an 18-year-old boy in a comparable situation.

[uppityperson]

10. Well, the adult men having sex with 14 yr olds.

[MNBrewer]

16. If you say so.

I think my friend might differ with your opinion.

[randome]

18. And what about your friend's parents? Did they not care if their son was statutorily raped?

You say the 14 y/o was looking for sex. Just about every 14 y/o does that. It doesn't make it right that someone took advantage of him.

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[MNBrewer]

19. His parents would have kicked him out of the house had they known he was gay,

So their status as "moral arbiters" is somewhat tainted. And as he sees it, if anyone got taken advantage of it wasn't him.

[randome]

20. Thanks for the answer.

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[uppityperson]

25. Sexual orientation doesn't matter, what matters is the power differential between 14 and an adult.

Sounds like he had a unsupportive home life, poor kid.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

36. The criminal is the one exploiting the judgement (or lack there of) of horny teenagers

There are many laws in place to protect minors from their own lack of judgement and experience.

[MNBrewer]

39. He didn't need legal protection from either of those things

He needed legal protection against a deeply homophobic culture.

Your priorities are misplaced in his case.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

42. I have had about half a dozen extremely young girls pursue me over the last twenty years

I am sure in their opinion they didn't need protection from me. But fortunately the norms in our society aren't set by Borat.

I am also sure had I exploited any of those situations there would be 150+ post threads of rape fantasies involving skinheads and crips projected in the general direction of my ass on this forum.

[WinkyDink]

45. The libido doesn't always mesh with the intellect. Hence, laws.

[WinkyDink]

44. The chicken-hawks.

[Peregrine]

6. Without a line

You'll have kids with connections that will get away with manipulating children.

[randome]

13. Agree completely.

The law can't be fair to everyone. It can only be fair for the majority. There will always be exceptions and special circumstances.

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[LadyHawkAZ]

23. Do you feel that the majority of teens are manipulated?

Or that the majority are willing participants?

[randome]

35. I think the majority are not ready for sex before 18.

I could see lowering the age a little -maybe 16- but being a 'willing participant' is not the same as being mature enough to handle the experience. We also have a teen pregnancy problem and that's a sign of immaturity, to put it mildly. Lowering the age would no doubt cause that to increase.

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[LadyHawkAZ]

48. But those not ready before 18 generally aren't having sex before 18

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html

•Although only 13% of teens have had sex by age 15, most initiate sex in their later teen years. By their 19th birthday, seven in 10 female and male teens have had intercourse.[1]

•Among sexually experienced teens, 70% of females and 56% of males report that their first sexual experience was with a steady partner, while 16% of females and 28% of males report first having sex with someone they had just met or who was just a friend.[5]

•Seven percent of young women aged 18–24 who had had sex before age 20 report that their first sexual experience was nonvoluntary. Those whose first partner was three or more years their senior were more likely to report this than were other women in the same age-group.[1]

•Teens in the United States and Europe have similar levels of sexual activity. However, European teens are more likely than U.S. teens to use contraceptives generally and to use the most effective methods; they therefore have substantially lower pregnancy rates.[6]

The lack of maturity, as demonstrated by the comparison with European pregnancy rates, is a lack of maturity on the part of parents who refuse to either teach or allow proper contraception. Simply put, we prefer to pretend that our teens are pure, chaste and sexually immature until their 18th birthday, and our teens pay the price for it. I'm not willing to consign other teenagers to the corrections system because the adults in this country aren't mature.

[RedCappedBandit]

46. Good point. nt

[Iggo]

7. ...and trash this thread...

[Aerows]

8. I haven't weighed in on this issue

because as a lesbian, it's rather embarrassing to me. To state it, in unvarnished language, Kaitlyn Hunt is attempting to capitalize on the fact that she is gay to protect herself from the fact that she was sleeping with a 14 year old.

I have to be honest - if this was an 18 year old boy going after a 14 year old girl or an 18 year old girl going after a 14 year old boy, I would think it was wrong. I would think it was wrong if it was a 14 year old boy and an 18 year old boy.

I don't appreciate that she is attempting to garner sympathy from the gay community because she committed statutory rape. That's what she did, period.

I'm prepared to get blasted, but honestly, that is how the issue falls under the law, and a 14 year old does not have the same emotional and mental capacity as an 18 year old, anymore than a 12 year old and a 16 year old are similar.

[NaturalHigh]

38. Thanks for the thoughtful answer.

I think a lot of people are losing sight of the fact that an 18-year-old took advantage of a 14-year-old. The gender of the offender and the victim is irrelevant.

[The Straight Story]

9. If we trust an 18yr old to vote we can trust em to obey basic laws I hope

My rule, were I judge, would be - if you were having sex with the same person before you turned 18 then I would understand.

It is not always logical but at some point you have to draw a line and stand by - and when that line is blurred give judges enough leeway to make a decision based on other circumstances.

When we tie the hands of judges (like we do at schools with zero tolerance crap) their ability to 'judge' is compromised.

[nomorenomore08]

21. I don't always agree with you, but here I have no objections.

Any judge should have the leeway to recognize that the law is arbitrary by nature, and that there are potential gray areas. Which shouldn't lead to acquittal, necessarily, but should be a factor in sentencing.

[randome]

22. I think the line should be there but I think you're right about tying the hands of judges, too.

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[Comrade Grumpy]

11. Wow, I'm surprised that 2/3 want to draw that firm line at 18.

729 days difference = Okay
731 days difference = felon

What changed, except 48 hours went by?

[WinkyDink]

14. Do you feel that "no line" way about the vote? Drinking alcohol? Signing contracts? Buying a gun?

Or do you just want to play up to your name?

[randome]

15. You draw the line at 729 days and someone will come along and say "Why not 727?"

You make it 727 and someone will ask "Why not 725?" And so on and so on.

The line needs to be drawn somewhere. Right now that line is 18.

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[WinkyDink]

12. Look. Try seeing this NOT from some imaginary "in-love" "nice" 18-yr-old's viewpoint. Try

posing the question from an exploited kid's perspective.

[LittleBlue]

17. I'm more concerned with the circumstances than age

If they are both in a basketball team at the same high school, age is not really a factor for me. There's no real power difference, the older is not in a position of authority or responsibility, and the older did not seek the younger for exploitative purposes.

Those are the questions I'm concerned with regarding two high school students, not necessarily age.

[LadyHawkAZ]

24. I'm comfortable with a 4 year leeway

that keeps it legal within their likely peer group.

[Go Vols]

26. +1

[defacto7]

28. Does anyone ever fall in love anymore?

The questions seem to center around arbitrary ages and the sex act. There is love in the lives of people under 18, it's not always infatuation or an uncontrollable testosterone explosion. But these days all kids hear about is the sex act and that "all" boys want to stick it in something. It's not true. So much of it is fabricated by entertainment and business.

I always come back to the stats that show countries that don't promote prude-ity have less teenage sex in general and a later onset of sexual activity. Without sexual taboos, it's just a natural thing to be a kid and be able to handle public sexual discussion or nudity with a happy acceptance or humor and not have the "I gotta stick it in something now or I'm gonna blow up" attitude. America is weird when it comes to sex, and in some cases dangerous. Maybe it has something to do with American males have less testosterone than they used to have and try to make up for it by overplaying it. American males on average have 1/2 as much testosterone as their grandfathers had and less than that of their great grandfathers.

Love and caring trump the sex act by itself any day. Kids don't know the difference and get caught in the commotion caused by the excitement of having a taboo to sneak around.

Get rid of the damn taboos.

[Nye Bevan]

29. In Sweden, sex between an 18 year old and someone younger than 15 is illegal without exception.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe

[defacto7]

30. OK.

That sort of grazes around what I was saying, but thanks! I'm commenting about the reason we have to categorize in such blunt forms instead of dealing with the source of a problem that makes that necessary.

I'm not arguing against lines drawn, I'm saying there are other factors that would help elevate the root problem. Many countries have done just that and it has little to do with the need for barriers. Barriers are there for extremes but the average kid doesn't get to that place as often in less prudish societies.

[davidn3600]

31. Yeah but look at Germany, Italy, and Spain

[Donald Ian Rankin]

32. Under 16 should be illegal but not always charged - leave some room for prosecutorial discretion.

But 18-14 should seldom if ever receive the benefit of that discretion.

It probably shouldn't involve registering as a sex offender in most cases, though.

[bemildred]

33. We need a two year rule, sex with a minor two or more years younger is illegal.

Thus if you are both over 18, you are legal, of if the older is no more than two years older you are legal, if there is no coercion.

[In_The_Wind]

37. Yes

[sarisataka]

41. It is difficult to select one specific age

because the maturity of teens (and post teens) is extremely variable.

Whatever standard is chosen, in conjunction with procedural discretion, should be applied evenly regardless of gender or orientation

[RedCappedBandit]

47. I like the 'peer group' consideration raised by other posters ITT