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Thu Feb 9, 2012, 06:37 PM

 

Marines posed with flag resembling Nazi SS logo in Afghanistan

By NBC News, msnbc.com and news services

SAN DIEGO -- The U.S. Marine Corps confirmed Thursday that a sniper team in Afghanistan posed for a photograph in front of a flag with a logo resembling that of the notorious Nazi SS.

Use of the SS symbol is not acceptable, and the Marine Corps has addressed the issue, Lt. Col. Stewart Upton said in a statement. He did not specify what action was taken.

Upton said the Marines in the photograph, posted on an Internet blog, are no longer with the unit. The picture was taken in September 2010 in Sangin province, Afghanistan.

The photo shows a flag with what appear to be the letters "SS" in the shape of jagged lightning bolts. The symbol resembles that used by SS units in World War II.




http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/09/10364262-marines-posed-with-flag-resembling-nazi-ss-logo-in-afghanistan

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Arrow 53 replies Author Time Post
Reply Marines posed with flag resembling Nazi SS logo in Afghanistan (Original post)
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 OP
Lost-in-FL Feb 2012 #1
MrSlayer Feb 2012 #2
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #8
MrSlayer Feb 2012 #16
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #17
provis99 Feb 2012 #22
MrSlayer Feb 2012 #24
provis99 Feb 2012 #29
MrSlayer Feb 2012 #35
Bluenorthwest Feb 2012 #3
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #4
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #7
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #13
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #15
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #19
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #20
ellisonz Feb 2012 #5
nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #6
ellisonz Feb 2012 #11
jsmirman Feb 2012 #12
Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #40
JVS Feb 2012 #51
alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #9
jsmirman Feb 2012 #18
RZM Feb 2012 #27
alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #49
SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #10
lovuian Feb 2012 #14
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #46
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #21
zappaman Feb 2012 #25
EFerrari Feb 2012 #34
Obamanaut Feb 2012 #53
Octafish Feb 2012 #23
Rex Feb 2012 #30
Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #26
Occulus Feb 2012 #32
ellisonz Feb 2012 #37
Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #39
ellisonz Feb 2012 #41
Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #43
ellisonz Feb 2012 #45
RZM Feb 2012 #28
pintobean Feb 2012 #50
woolldog Feb 2012 #31
Occulus Feb 2012 #33
ellisonz Feb 2012 #36
PragmaticLiberal Feb 2012 #48
amandabeech Feb 2012 #38
Baclava Feb 2012 #52
Shankapotomus Feb 2012 #42
Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #44
Shankapotomus Feb 2012 #47

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 06:39 PM

1. You beat me to it… nt

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 06:58 PM

2. Scout Snipers.

 

SS. Makes sense, looks cool. Bad idea for PR purposes. That's what I get out of it.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:42 PM

8. I doubt the brass approved it

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #8)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:58 PM

16. As do I.

 

But this is not unprecedented.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:05 PM

17. Oh agreed

 



It is not without precedent.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #2)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 09:20 PM

22. yeah, right. and the confederate flag is about heritage, not white supremacy.

 

and people flying the swastika or Iron Cross are simply proud of their German ancestry.




maybe the Nazis really mean scout sniper too, and not Schutzstaffel?

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Response to provis99 (Reply #22)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 09:44 PM

24. I seriously doubt they are declaring themselves Nazis.

 

As I said the letters fit their squad and it looks cool. I don't think these guys are Nazis or Nazi sympathizers. I'm not seeing this as anything other than a representation of their squad.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be offended at the use of an SS symbol. Far from it. But let's not make it more than it is.

Troops in Vietnam used to fly the Waffen SS colors because they are imtimidating and they were a badass outfit. It didn't make them Nazis.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #24)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:35 AM

29. I guess black people fly the Nazi flag then, too.

 

since flying a Nazi flag doesn't make you a Nazi.

Well, we could always ask the black marines in the picture what they think. Oh wait, there aren't any! Just a bunch of white guys flying a NAZI FLAG!

How about this: you wear a Waffen SS t-shirt the next time you go to a Walmart, and tell the shoppers you don't admire Nazis, you just thought they were real badasses, and see the reactions you get.

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Response to provis99 (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:39 AM

35. Well, there were black soldiers in Vietnam...

 

That fought in units that did fly it. And in units that flew the stars and bars as well. Soldiers in war are a different lot than you and I. They do things and look at things in a much different way. I can say the Waffen SS were badasses because they were. At the time they were the best soldiers in the world. But that doesn't mean I agree with thier mission. And again, that is not what is happening in this photo.

Take a look at what the Marines had to say about in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117899

I see that this really bothers you but I think you're making more out of it than is there.

Never suggest that I go to Wallmart for any reason. That offends me.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:02 PM

3. What a lot of idiots.

 

Disgusting and ignorant.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)


Response to Obamanaut (Reply #4)


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #7)


Response to Obamanaut (Reply #13)


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #15)


Response to Obamanaut (Reply #19)


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:39 PM

5. Bullshit.

Only a moron would not know what those symbolize. Just goes to show how dangerous the White supremacist movement is in this country.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:40 PM

6. A few have made it into the force

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:47 PM

11. Racism is alive and well in America.

I for one would like to see government smash these Neo-Nazi groups: http://www.democraticunderground.com/101612829 - terrorist scumbags IMHO.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:48 PM

12. Yep, looks like this is real

appalling.

Nazis, people, fucking nazis!

The level of lunacy required to want to associate yourself in any fashion with those assholes even outweighs the level of lunacy Madonna exhibited by choosing to make a movie about fucking Wallis Simpson.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:21 AM

40. I agree. Outside of the swastika, it's the most widely-recognized nazi symbol, IMO.

And it's banned in Germany. That specific depiction that the soldiers have on their flag, anyway.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #40)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:44 AM

51. Yup. Even Kiss has to have an alternate logo for sales in Germany.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:44 PM

9. I'm more concerned about the beards

 

Marines in a combat zone looking like a pack of Williamsburg hipsters. Hey dude, somebody put on the Bon Iver and let's git some.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 08:08 PM

18. Nope, I'm pretty sure I'm more concerned

with military personnel, being supported by my (and your) tax dollars, displaying a symbol of a group that was dedicated to the extermination of people with my ethnicity.

Wait - let me think about it - nope, what you said is still an unbelievably strange thing to say about something so disturbing.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #9)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:10 AM

27. LOL

 

Even better, Lykke Li. She's even got a song called 'Get Some.'

&feature=related

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Response to RZM (Reply #27)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:37 AM

49. Indeed

 

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:45 PM

10. The entire photo is

inducing.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 07:54 PM

14. Maybe their saying America is Fascist

You have American flag + SS flag used in Germany by the SS

Nazi mysticism and is most commonly used to refer to the insignia of the Schutzstaffel (SS) of the Third Reich.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Flag_Schutzstaffel.svg

Guido von List in his "Armanen runes" called the rune sig, apparently based on sigel, thus changing the concept associated with it from "sun" to "victory"

The SS sig runes design was created in 1931 when Walter Heck, a Sturmführer in the SS, drew two reversed and inverted sig runes side by side and noticed the similarity to the initials of the SS. Heck sold the rights of the sig runes to the SS for 2.5 Reichsmarks, and the runes were quickly adopted as the insignia of the Schutzstaffel and became one of the most commonly used forms of SS unit insignia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_%28rune%29

Now think about what is going on in Afghanistan
with the heroin trade


U.S. Identifies Vast Mineral Riches in Afghanistan

The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself, according to senior American government officials.

The previously unknown deposits — including huge veins of iron, copper, cobalt, gold and critical industrial metals like lithium — are so big and include so many minerals that are essential to modern industry that Afghanistan could eventually be transformed into one of the most important mining centers in the world, the United States officials believe.

An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the “Saudi Arabia of lithium,” a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?pagewanted=all

Who needs Lithium?
Corporations
So we invade a country ...like Hitler invaded Belgium or like Stalin invaded Poland
and nobody stops us because we are a big army
and we invade Iraq and we invade Libya and now we invade Syria and next Iran


not to say those guys in Syria Iraq were not dictators themselves but the pattern of invasion is
one similarly used by Hitler

this says many things to many people

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Response to lovuian (Reply #14)


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)


Response to Obamanaut (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 12:57 AM

25. How dare you give a link to a rational

and likely truthful statement that contradicts the OP!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #25)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:37 AM

34. Looks like their command disagrees:

US Marine sniper unit photographed with 'Nazi SS' flag
A US Marine scout sniper unit in Afghanistan posed for a photo in front of a flag resembling the logo of the Nazi SS, the Marine Corps says.

In a statement, a Marine spokesman said use of the SS symbol was not acceptable, and that the Corps had now addressed the issue.

The spokesman did not specify what action had been taken.

Marines in the September 2010 photo, taken in Sangin, Afghanistan, are no longer in that unit, he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16973868

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101448651

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #34)


Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 09:34 PM

23. Americans who crossed paths with SS at Malmedy, France, December 17, 1944.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #23)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:54 AM

30. I view it as a sign of mental distress.

 

Not a good sign. Of course you and I remember the recent pictures from Abu Ghraib and all the other horrors we've done in the not to distant past. Not a proud moment for the marines.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:08 AM

26. There is...NO...way somebody "accidentally" copies a fucking SS flag.

And the the other thread that's linked to in this one, where some Marine sniper goes on about his "SS" lightning bolt tattoo: Bullshit on that as well.

You boys know you think the Nazis were cool. Just admit it. Talking out of a fucking SS tattoo/flag is not going to happen.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:28 AM

32. *Any* use of "SS" = Nazi?

No.

I submit you are way off base. And out of line.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:46 AM

37. That's not what he said.

If they want SS for scout sniper they shouldn't use symbols most informed people would associate with the Nazis. It is a tradition that never should have happened and that the Marine Corps finds unacceptable. See below.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #32)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:13 AM

39. Not "any" use of SS. We're specifically talking about the two stylized...

...SS lightning bolts all by themselves either on a solid color field flag or as a tattoo. We're not talking about the S's in the old KISS band name and we're not talking about run of the mill Futhark runes: The SS Nazi symbols are a very specific design which you can learn more about here.

That specific "SS" design (the one those soldiers have on their flag) is outlawed in Germany because it is a clear, widely-known nazi symbol.

I think they should just fess up: They think it makes them more badass. 'Casue, ya know, nazis are badass...



PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:26 AM

41. An issue we agree on!

It's an absolutely stupid appropriation and unbecoming of an institution as noble as the Marine Corps.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:38 AM

43. These things happen from time to time and should not be cause for undue alarm, LOL!

I will say this: I'm absolutely not surprised we agree on this. What I am surprised by is that anyone else would disagree. It's not like you have to be an intern at the Anti-Defamation League to know what an SS-symbol looks like...

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #43)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:52 AM

45. I better break out my copy of Henry Kissenger's Diplomacy...*smash*

I don't get it either. I've known about this for quite awhile and I'll still denounce it at every turn I get because its wrong. Similarly, I'll defend legitimate usage of the swastika for legitimate religious purpose: http://www.democraticunderground.com/122399 - that's what America should be about - standing up for truth.

They know exactly what they're doing when they use that symbol and it ain't SS for Scout Sniper. What's next, the Death Head?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 01:19 AM

28. Given some of the other explanations

 

I think it's debatable whether or not they were directly going for the Nazi thing. If I had to guess I would say probably not.

People said the same thing about this logo too.



Either way, it's incredibly stupid. Even if that's not what they were going for, they should definitely have known better.

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Response to RZM (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 07:56 AM

50. And they had their own army.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:23 AM

31. I have to say I wouldn't have made the connection between this logo and the SS

 

That was so long ago and most Americans aren't that well versed in history. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they were ignorant of what the symbol meant, if for no other reason that I was ignorant of it too.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:30 AM

33. I'm disappointed in this thread.

I thought DUers, as a group, were smarter and less judgmental than this.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 02:43 AM

36. The Marines formally disapprove of the use of this symbol.

Marine officials said those involved were not Nazi sympathizers.

Col. John Guthrie with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force's office of inspector general said his office became aware of the photograph in November and received confirmation from a commanding officer in Afghanistan that the personnel were part of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion out of Camp Pendleton.

Guthrie said in a statement that the use of "SS runes" was "not acceptable."

"Some Scout Snipers have unfortunately used the 'SS runes' in the past as a symbol for their elite organization and not intended for racial connotations or discrimination," he wrote.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/marines-nazi-symbol-afghanistan-camp-pendleton.html


This symbol is inextricably linked to racial connotations. There is nothing elite about them, it is a symbol of the Nazis known world-wide. Ignorance is not an excuse. I'll be judgmental if I want to be, it has nothing to do with not being "smarter" and everything to do with deep disappointment that this behavior has continued despite the chain of command's apparent objection. I will not make excuses for this use and I don't give a damn if it's "traditional," to the Marine Corps and myself it is unacceptable in its ignorance.

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Response to Occulus (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:46 AM

48. What made you think that?

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Response to woolldog (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 03:30 AM

38. Your're not alone.

 

My Dad, a WWII vet, was in his 40s when I was born. Most of friends' fathers were Korean vets.

I recently had dinner with the Salutatorian of my small rural high school. We were in the same class in mandatory U.S. history our junior year of high school.

My friend's dad is a Korean vet.

One of my uncles past away fairly recently, and I was remarking on his WWII service. He was a radioman and tailgunner in a bomber in the Pacific.

My friend said something to the effect of, "Gee, I guess a lot of guys must have tried to dodge the draft in WWII." I told her that there were very few draft dodgers after we were attacked at Pearl Harbor, and those few were shamed for years and years after. She was surprised.

My Dad and another uncle were both 1st class petty officers in the navy. My Dad's rating was aviation metalsmith, 1st class, if that means anything to any vets in the crowd.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 08:58 AM

52. anybody that has ever watched a WWII war movie knows what the double lighting bolts mean

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:34 AM

42. I don't understand

Why do members of an institution such as our military, which claims training in discipline as one of its major functions, appear LESS disciplined and MORE reckless and immature than the average civilian?

Pissing on enemy combatants? Now nazi flags? Aren't our soldiers told they are representing their nation on the world stage? Every time shit like this happens they always bring out the "our troops are the best disciplined in the world" line. And not even a month later you get more stupid shit. And I mean stupid shit.

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Response to Shankapotomus (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 05:42 AM

44. Been happening a lot over the last ten years and I'm sick of it. nt

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 10, 2012, 06:21 AM

47. Hopefully you have ties to the U.S. Military

and can ask them where is this great American discipline we keep hearing about. They are in the news for the wrong reasons more than stories about wild college fraternities. It's surreal.

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