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Thu May 23, 2013, 04:24 AM

 

What if the wars were never about terrorism, what if they were always about money & Corporate Greed?


What if it had already been decided to invade Iraq soon after the possible invasion during the first Gulf war was called off in 1991.

What if Dick Cheney started working on plans to make this acceptable to public opinion soon after the first gulf war

What if Iraq had the 3rd largest oil reserves in the world.

What if enough influential people could be signed up to support these plans due to various reasons.

What if these plans were published in PNAC (the neocon agenda) in 1997


What if Saddam Hussein called on the Arab world to price oil in something other than dollars in 2000

What if the bankers could be persuaded to support this idea in order to protect the Federal Reserve system by keeping oil priced in dollars.

What if the bankers could be persuaded to support this idea because it would mean the government borrowing more money and making them richer.

What if the arms companies could be persuaded to support this idea because it would allow them to sell more arms.

What if the oil companies could be persuaded to support this idea because it would increase the price of oil and they could grab Iraq's oil cheaply.

What if Israel's supporters could be persuaded to support this idea because they thought it would remove a threat to Israel.

What if something major happened to get the majority of Americans to support an invasion of Iraq.

What if it was deliberate policy to provoke Islamic anger by having no post invasion plans and fewer troops than required in order to cause chaos and anarchy in Iraq.

What if it was decided to dismantle all existing Iraqi government structures to further encourage factional in-fighting.

What if Iraqi prisoner abuse was deliberately encouraged to provoke more Islamic and Iraqi anger.

What if basic utilities such as electricity were deliberately removed from the people.

What if there was high unemployment to stoke up fury and resentment.

What if Iraq civil war was deliberate policy.

What if the civil war was deliberately stoked up by the use of depleted uranium, white phosphorous and large numbers of civilian casualties.

What if general Islamic anger could further be stoked up by the use of torture, illegal kidnappings and indefinite detentions.

What if the Iraqi civil war went on long enough to destabilize the whole region.

What if it was decided long ago that such a civil war in Iraq would only be resolved by bribing local tribal leaders with billions of American tax dollars.

What if the Iraqi people got so fed up with the civil war that they wouldn't complain when Iraq's oil was sold to Western oil companies for a pittance, as part of the peace deal.

What if troop numbers in Afghanistan were varied to get a never ending ebb and flow to the level of conflict in that country.

What if the Americans already knew that Afghanistan had never been conquered since Alexander the Great and would not be conquered now.

What if more Islamic Extremists could be recruited throughout the Middle East by American actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What if there were significant numbers of indiscriminate killings of civilians, especially women and children, to stoke up anger in the Islamic world.

What if drones could be developed to allow this to be the favored method of killing civilians with few witnesses outside of the local population and little news reaching the American public.

What if a continuing Afghan conflict could be used to encourage Islamic Extremist uprisings and regime changes in other Middle Eastern countries.

What if the Islamists mounting uprisings in other ME countries were supported and protected by the American government to encourage more countries to do likewise.

And so we are here :-

The arms companies and "defense" contractors have had a decade of record profits.

The big bank execs (those in the know) have got rich out of a decade of large government deficits.
The surviving American big banks have become even larger and more powerful as their weaker and less cogent rivals were taken over.

The big Western oil companies have got their deals for cheap Iraqi oil as well as a decade of high oil prices.
They too have had a decade of huge profits.

The supporters of Israel were deceived - this was never going to help Israel feel or be safer.
Making Israel (and America) less safe encourages more arms purchases throughout the Middle East and the world in general.
It also encourages more American government deficits for the bankers to feed from, as well as the arms companies.

Money and profits for large Corporations was always the sole motivation.
It was never to make Israelis or Americans feel any safer or be any better off - quite the reverse.

The Libyan secular regime has been replaced by an Islamic Extremist one, as has Egypt.
The Islamic Extremists, supported by the American government, are fighting to take over control in Syria.
Lebanon and Jordan have started to be de-stabilized by events in the region and the Syrian civil war.
Yemen has it's own civil war, with Islamic Extremists fighting to overthrow a corrupt puppet US sponsored regime.

There is now a growing Islamist movement in sub Saharan Africa, particularly in Mali, and there is also local conflict in Nigeria.
This is the next excuse for continuing and expanding the wars.

Islamic Extremists are still being recruited and anti American feelings encouraged, by a policy of deliberately killing civilians and terrorizing local populations with robotic weapons called drones.


What happens next :-

What the architects of this plan failed to take into account was the growing power of China and Russia.
It will be their undoing.

China and Russia can see as easily as I can what the Americans have been doing.
They can also see that America is much weaker now than it was a decade ago - strategically, economically and is now debt laden.
Just like Vietnam, America has demonstrated that it cannot counter a guerilla war militarily.

Both the Chinese and the Russians have taken advantage of it.
China by signing trade deals for half of Africa's natural resources and growing very fast economically - by selling to American consumers on the back of huge inflation in the American money supply.
Russia by taking advantage of high oil and gas prices; and by the disposal of any dissenting oligarchs who might threaten the current regime.

The Chinese and Russians can see how weak America now is.
They are now forming a non USD trading coalition with India, Brazil, Japan, Australia, South Africa, half of Africa and possibly Germany.
The rest of SE Asia is forming closer trading ties with China.
This trading bloc will be far larger in GDP terms, than either North America or the European Union.

The Federal Reserve banking system is now facing the biggest threat in it's history.
It is now threatened by China and Russia.
Other countries are moving increasingly towards China's trading bloc and away from America.

Events may run their course and America may suffer a dramatic economic collapse all on it's own.
Or the Chinese and Russians may just have to give it a nudge when they are ready.
A nudge is all that it will take. America is very vulnerable already.


Conclusions

The so called "war on terror" was never about terrorists or terrorism.
It was always about money, Corporate greed and the power of elites.

It will be their undoing, I don't think the Chinese and Russians are going to play ball.
The power of the Federal Reserve bank and the Western private bankers that own it, is going to diminish with the loss of the dollar as the world's reserve currency.

American hegemony will be lost to a new Chinese centered, South East Asian hegemony.

The American government won't have the resources to borrow much money or to buy many arms in the future.

There will be an increase in tension between America and China over the coming years.
It may become a hot war.
There will be one final fling and one last throw of the dice in American military and government spending, the architects of the grand plan do not give up power easily.
It will probably cost a lot of lives around the world, but this is immaterial to the money lenders.

The architects of the grand plan, christened the "war on terror" have miscalculated this time.

There is a million to one shot that the American government might completely reverse course and prevent the scenario above.
There are no signs of it happening.

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Reply What if the wars were never about terrorism, what if they were always about money & Corporate Greed? (Original post)
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 OP
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #1
truebluegreen May 2013 #7
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #8
newfie11 May 2013 #9
woo me with science May 2013 #32
LineReply .
blkmusclmachine May 2013 #2
HereSince1628 May 2013 #3
unhappycamper May 2013 #16
cali May 2013 #4
dotymed May 2013 #18
cali May 2013 #33
dotymed May 2013 #49
BlueCaliDem May 2013 #29
DCKit May 2013 #5
HiPointDem May 2013 #6
Locrian May 2013 #10
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #12
Locrian May 2013 #39
hobbit709 May 2013 #11
socialist_n_TN May 2013 #24
harun May 2013 #13
Cosmocat May 2013 #14
another_liberal May 2013 #15
mithnanthy May 2013 #17
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #48
GoneFishin May 2013 #19
kelliekat44 May 2013 #20
libdude May 2013 #21
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #27
cali May 2013 #34
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #37
cali May 2013 #38
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #42
madokie May 2013 #22
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #35
Locrian May 2013 #40
Flashmann May 2013 #23
LWolf May 2013 #25
truebluegreen May 2013 #60
sylvanus May 2013 #26
Coyotl May 2013 #28
marions ghost May 2013 #30
sabrina 1 May 2013 #31
rhett o rick May 2013 #50
mindwalker_i May 2013 #36
Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #41
gopiscrap May 2013 #43
gopiscrap May 2013 #44
woo me with science May 2013 #45
Fire Walk With Me May 2013 #46
librechik May 2013 #47
rhett o rick May 2013 #51
LeftyLucy22 May 2013 #52
raouldukelives May 2013 #53
Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #54
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #56
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #57
bvar22 May 2013 #59
felix_numinous May 2013 #55
TakeALeftTurn May 2013 #58
woo me with science May 2013 #61

Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 04:26 AM

1. The Pentagon Admits: The “War on Terror” Will Never End - Glenn Greenwald

 


It is hard to resist the conclusion that this war has no purpose other than its own eternal perpetuation. This war is not a means to any end but rather is the end in itself. Not only is it the end itself, but it is also its own fuel: it is precisely this endless war – justified in the name of stopping the threat of terrorism – that is the single greatest cause of that threat.

- Glenn Greenwald from his recent article: Washington Gets Explicit: Its “War on Terror” is Permanent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/17/endless-war-on-terror-obama

So last Thursday at a hearing held by the Senate Armed Services Committee, we found out what many of us already knew. That the “war on terror” is never going to end. Indeed, it was never supposed to end. This never-ending “war” on a fantastical enemy provides the American oligarch class with too much money and too much power to ever make it worthwhile for the establishment to shut down. It matters not to them that this civil liberties destroying fraud has been going on for my entire post-college life and, if they have their way, for the remainder of it. It matters not to them that the “war on terror” itself has done more to destroy the Constitution and vital essence of this nation than any terrorist act ever could. No, it matters very little indeed. What matters to them is money and power, and the “war on terror” provides them with boatloads of both.

My favorite excerpts from Glenn’s article are below:

On Thursday, the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing on whether the statutory basis for this “war” – the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF) – should be revised (meaning: expanded). This is how Wired’s Spencer Ackerman (soon to be the Guardian US’s national security editor) described the most significant exchange:

“Asked at a Senate hearing today how long the war on terrorism will last, Michael Sheehan, the assistant secretary of defense for special operations and low-intensity conflict, answered, ’At least 10 to 20 years.’ . . . A spokeswoman, Army Col. Anne Edgecomb, clarified that Sheehan meant the conflict is likely to last 10 to 20 more years from today – atop the 12 years that the conflict has already lasted. Welcome to America’s Thirty Years War.”

That the Obama administration is now repeatedly declaring that the “war on terror” will last at least another decade (or two) is vastly more significant than all three of this week’s big media controversies (Benghazi, IRS, and AP/DOJ) combined. The military historian Andrew Bacevich has spent years warning that US policy planners have adopted an explicit doctrine of “endless war”. Obama officials, despite repeatedly boasting that they have delivered permanently crippling blows to al-Qaida, are now, as clearly as the English language permits, openly declaring this to be so.

It is hard to resist the conclusion that this war has no purpose other than its own eternal perpetuation. This war is not a means to any end but rather is the end in itself. Not only is it the end itself, but it is also its own fuel: it is precisely this endless war – justified in the name of stopping the threat of terrorism – that is the single greatest cause of that threat.

In response, I wrote that the “war on terror” cannot and will not end on its own for two reasons: (1) it is designed by its very terms to be permanent, incapable of ending, since the war itself ironically ensures that there will never come a time when people stop wanting to bring violence back to the US (the operational definition of “terrorism”), and (2) the nation’s most powerful political and economic factions reap a bonanza of benefits from its continuation. Whatever else is true, it is now beyond doubt that ending this war is the last thing on the mind of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize winner and those who work at the highest levels of his administration. Is there any way they can make that clearer beyond declaring that it will continue for “at least” another 10-20 years?


And then there’s the most intangible yet most significant cost: each year of endless war that passes further normalizes the endless rights erosions justified in its name. The second term of the Bush administration and first five years of the Obama presidency have been devoted to codifying and institutionalizing the vast and unchecked powers that are typically vested in leaders in the name of war. Those powers of secrecy, indefinite detention, mass surveillance, and due-process-free assassination are not going anywhere. They are now permanent fixtures not only in the US political system but, worse, in American political culture.

Each year that passes, millions of young Americans come of age having spent their entire lives, literally, with these powers and this climate fixed in place: to them, there is nothing radical or aberrational about any of it. The post-9/11 era is all they have been trained to know. That is how a state of permanent war not only devastates its foreign targets but also degrades the population of the nation that prosecutes it.

This war will end only once Americans realize the vast and multi-faceted costs they are bearing so that the nation’s political elites can be empowered and its oligarchs can further prosper. But Washington clearly has no fear that such realizations are imminent. They are moving in the other direction: aggressively planning how to further entrench and expand this war.

Newly elected independent Sen. Angus King of Maine said after listening to how the Obama administration interprets its war powers under the AUMF:

This is the most astounding and most astoundingly disturbing hearing that I’ve been to since I’ve been here. You guys have essentially rewritten the Constitution today.”

Former Bush DOJ official Jack Goldsmith, who testified at the hearing,summarized what was said after it was over: Obama officials argued that “they had domestic authority to use force in Mali, Syria, Libya, and Congo, against Islamist terrorist threats there”; that “they were actively considering emerging threats and stated that it was possible they would need to return to Congress for new authorities against those threats but did not at present need new authorities”; that “the conflict authorized by the AUMF was not nearly over”; and that “several members of the Committee were surprised by the breadth of DOD’s interpretation of the AUMF.” Conveying the dark irony of America’s war machine, seemingly lifted right out of the Cold War era film Dr. Strangelove, Goldsmith added:

Amazingly, there is a very large question even in the Armed Services Committee about who the United States is at war against and where, and how those determinations are made.”

Nobody really even knows with whom the US is at war, or where. Everyone just knows that it is vital that it continue in unlimited form indefinitely.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #1)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:39 AM

7. Excellent post.

 

And welcome to DU.

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Response to truebluegreen (Reply #7)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:48 AM

8. Thank you

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #1)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:01 AM

9. Great post. nt

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #1)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:40 AM

32. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:05 AM

2. .

 

.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #3)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:07 AM

16. Yup. n/t

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:17 AM

4. well of course they were always about corporate greed. this is hardly a revelation

 

but largely I don't think much of your op. It's pretty hard to read and then there's the false crap and the prognosticating. And the stupid shit about 9/11 being an inside job. And honestly, it doesn't take something major to get the majority of Americans to back a war. It never does.

There's just too much bullshit in your op to bother countering.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:20 AM

18. Welcome Takealeftturn, I do not agree with cali.

Of course, 9/11 was "an inside job." Ask any physicist. The rest of the op was also very true. People do not want to realize that they are in an Orwellian quagmire but the truth is the truth.
We have been manipulated on a large scale. Our only hope is to unite and take our country back.

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Response to dotymed (Reply #18)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:48 AM

33. Ask any physicist if 9/11 was an inside job? Seriously, hon?

 

gad. I am so glad that you don't agree with me. Please continue not agreeing with me.

what sad bullshit your post is.

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Response to cali (Reply #33)

Thu May 23, 2013, 02:56 PM

49. Thanks n/t

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:32 AM

29. This is the first time I agree with Cali.

The OP is full of bullshit because anyone quoting that Libertarian-posing-as-a-Liberal-Bush-supporting-Ron-Paul-supporting and KKK defending asswipe, Glenn Greenwald, on Democratic Underground, should lose all credibility.

At the end of the day, we're still Democrats, not Libertarians.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:24 AM

5. The neocon chickenhawks came together under Raygun and Poppy.

 

This plan was formulated way back when - never let a good disaster go to waste.

They needed 9/11 to bring this plan to fruition, but they also thought they were capable of controlling how things were going to go. Sheer hubris.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 05:25 AM

6. too all over the place, but k&r for the general principle

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:12 AM

10. awesome post

Don't know about china though... not that the scenario above is not possible. Just not sure if or when they would be ready before they implode from their environmental tragedy and/or internal issues. Which of course could also be the factor that DOES push the whole row of dominoes over....

One thing for sure seems obvious... the us power in the coming years will be much reduced than it even is now.

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Response to Locrian (Reply #10)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:34 AM

12. Yep China has loads of problems

 

From pollution, corruption, bad debts from their property bubble, to over capacity etc.

The point is that they are building a huge trading coalition with other countries.

They have managed to sign trade deals with half of Africa without firing a bullet.
Mostly the Chinese have sweetened these natural resource deals with some form of infrastructure building. The engineers are Chinese - the basic labor is African.

What has the US got out of invading Afghanistan and Iraq?

It has been estimated that Afghanistan has about $1tn worth of natural resources.
Including a sizeable amount of lithium.

The contracts to develop the mining of those natural resources in Afghanistan are going to Chinese companies, not to American or Western mining interests.

The Taliban don't have an issue with the Chinese.
Western companies wouldn't be able to develop or operate a mining interest in Afghanistan, due to the security issues.

China is also building a huge factory complex in Ethiopea which will eventually employ 10,000 people and export $4bn worth of cheap shoes a year.

How to win hearts and minds - create local jobs.
How not to win hearts and minds. Bomb the b@stards.



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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #12)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:51 AM

39. yes

agree on all that completely - just that the china thing will be mixed with chaos - doesn't negate anything you're saying.

I like (well, I don't LIKE the facts but thats a different issue) your analysis and how it ties it all together. Crystal clear that it's a freight train heading for the US.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:16 AM

11. What if?

Try actually is.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #11)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:05 AM

24. And this was MY first thought too.......

nm

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:38 AM

13. "We've always been at war with Eastasia"

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:42 AM

14. There is a simplier foundation for it

YES, people with deep pockets who buy politicians make money off of it.

But, it also is a VERY good political move.

FEAR and the threat of a boogyman always are election winners.

Whatever all else, end of the day all republicans care about is winning elections, and this stuff is like a 99 MPH fastball that hitters can't touch.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:49 AM

15. Too true.

 

"The so called "war on terror" was never about terrorists or terrorism. It was always about money, Corporate greed and the power of elites."

Well said, and quite convincing. Thank you.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:19 AM

17. excellent post

Welcome to DU....

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Response to mithnanthy (Reply #17)

Thu May 23, 2013, 12:49 PM

48. Thanks

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:20 AM

19. Incredible Post

Best compilation of events leading up to 1984.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:26 AM

20. Looks like you read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" and "Classified Woman." nt

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:36 AM

21. It will end when

we as a people refuse to be servants of the corporate agenda of the military/industrial/
complex. When we refuse to provide the human fodder for their wars. I believe the current talk of restarting the draft is creating a plan to supply soldiers as more of the volunteer military is worn out and used up and as those that have served realize that when they are no longer of use, they are tossed aside.
All the constant talk of " our military heroes " is just slick advertising and marketing methods to bring the unsuspecting population to do their
" patriotic duty " in supporting the corporate profit driven wars, and to condemn those that are opposed as unpatriotic or supporters of radical Islam. Consider comments made by Gommert from Texas, all the " Muslims " working in the government, he may be just a stupid tool, but he is serving a corporate purpose.
Yes there is and has been money to be made, call iy whatever you want, " the war on terror " is as good as any.

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Response to libdude (Reply #21)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:24 AM

27. Agreed

 

but one of the reasons for keeping real unemployment high and economic prospects low, is to avoid the need for the draft.

U6 unemployment is now 14 or 15%. This includes people not on the unemployment registers but who are looking for work (or more work if they are currently part time).

Real unemployment is now 22%+.
This is U6 plus the under utilisation of people who would be looking for work if there were decent paying jobs out there.

Then we have the increasing numbers on disability.
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/adamhartung/files/2012/08/17a00d17171717c171717171717ef01717171717171717bfd17170d-1700wi17

The draft was the main reason for public anger against the Vietnam war.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #27)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:50 AM

34. bullfuckingshit real unemployment is 22%. Make shit up, much?

 

unemployment is likely higher than the official numbers but it is no where fucking near 22%. You have no idea what this country would look like if it was that high.

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Response to cali (Reply #34)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:11 AM

37. Nope. I don't make any economic statistics up

 

Let's look at unemployment

The headline number reported in the media is 7.7%.

U6 unemployment is at 15%
This includes people who can no longer claim unemployment but want to work and part time workers that want full time work


http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

REAL unemployment is at 23% - this includes people that have given up looking for work because well paid jobs are just not available.
They would work (in a decent paying job) if they could.

Most of the jobs that have been created during Obama's first term are low paid or part time jobs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/business/majority-of-new-jobs-pay-low-wages-study-finds.html?_r=0

The data behind the headlines

Real wages are falling and have been since 2001.

Household median incomes are now back to 1995 levels.





The latest BLS report
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Real median wages are the same now as they were in 1970.




http://www.pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/~/link.aspx?_id=FEBED1AC6195407E89A547111D932645&_z=z

The real inflation numbers
Real CPI is now at 9% using 1980 models - not the official 2%.
If we use the inflation models that were in place in 1990, the current inflation rate is about 6%.
The truth is probably somewhere between 6% and 9% or at least 3 times higher than the reported official numbers.
All governments lie about the true rate of inflation - it makes them look better.
The American government just lies more than most with their hedonic adjustments etc.




America's lost decade

Corporate profits hit an all time high, wages hit new lows.
How to fix the economy :- redress the balance.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-fix-the-economy-in-one-simple-chart-2012-8



In fact what Blodgett is suggesting is very similar to what Henry Ford actually did in 1914, when the economy experienced a similar situation of high Corporate profits and low wages.
Henry Ford AND his workers made a lot of money from his change of approach. EVERYBODY was much better off.




This at least would be a step in the right direction.
It is very easy to cut over $1tn of annual Corporate Welfare.
But neither party wants to do any of it.
BOTH parties made sure it was never even discussed, let alone put on the table.
It would slightly harm the profits of their main sponsors and donors - the large Corporations.
The level of Corporate profits is not the problem we face. It is EVERYTHING else.

So the middle class and the poor got a HUGE $200bn tax hike instead.


The numbers on disability continue to grow by between 250,000 and 300,000 a year.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html



Neither party has any plans that will decrease unemployment in America.
In fact both parties have policies that will DECREASE disposable incomes and raise unemployment.

Labor participation rates - is this what Obama calls recovery?


Chart sourced from Bureau of Labor statistics
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #37)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:23 AM

38. of course you're making it up.

 

and not one link- not one- is evidence that unemployment is 22%.

gad.

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Response to cali (Reply #38)

Thu May 23, 2013, 10:15 AM

42. I included all the links

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:40 AM

22. Welcome to DU

a most excellent post and a perfect example of why I like this place so well. You've put it in perspective as well as it's been done. Again Welcome to DU.
I'll say it now, you are a good fit for this place. I hope to read a lot more of you're writings

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Response to madokie (Reply #22)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:59 AM

35. Try this one then :) How to start fixing America's problems

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #35)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:57 AM

40. skimmed it and bookmarked for later reading

I like what I briefly read.

I think the corporations have become our 'welfare queens'. The fantasy football stock market and profits above everything have gutted the actual foundation of the US innovation, education, etc.

Contrary to public opinion - they (the predator corporations) are not the 'best and brightest' at actually MAKING anything or doing anything PRODUCTIVE unless you mean extracting money from the rest of us.


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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 07:41 AM

23. was always about money, Corporate greed and the power of elites.

I became convinced of this,the second we switched gears from Afghanistan/Bin Laden/Al Queda and began the Halliburton errrrr Iraq war.My conviction was further entrenched and cemented by just WHO it was pushing for this,shrub,et al, and by the fact that Halliburton was blatantly being awarded inflated "no bid contracts" very early on.By the fact that anyone suggesting improprieties in Halliburtons involvement,as well as with Cheney's connection to Halliburton,was shouted down as treasonous and unpatriotic and,in some quarters,still are.

I think the systematic "dumbing down of America",that ramped up under Raygun with concerted cuts in education,media take-overs and job killing,union busting measures,that continue even now,were orchestrated to lay the groundwork for the day the greedy elites could begin to take over the world.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:15 AM

25. What if this is not news,

but something that many of us recognized, and voiced, from the beginning, and the majority didn't give a flying fuck, and ran us into war anyway?

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Response to LWolf (Reply #25)

Thu May 23, 2013, 09:19 PM

60. Bingo. nt

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:23 AM

26. I completely agree TakeALeftTurn, except the last part.

 

The rich and influential have not over played their hand.
To the contrary, they've played the same hand they've played through out history.
The reason why, is because it always works.
With a few changes of names you could apply this "What if list" to the US about Viet-Nam.
One could apply this list to the German people as Hitler rose to power.
This list could be applied to any large population whose rich and powerful intend to
use them as a revenue generating machine.
Soon enough, it will work again. As a post above referred to Major General Smedley Butler, "War is a Racket".

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler#Lectures

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:28 AM

28. What will we do when the Sandinista terrorists get to the Texas border

 

If you believe Ronald Reagan, they are on their way there

Go back a few decades and you'll see "terrorist" is an old meme.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:34 AM

30. Corporate Greed

boils down to the greed of individuals. A few masterminds.

Thanks for the What If's. A lot of food for thought.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:39 AM

31. Excellent post. And another 'what if'. What if the American woke up and began prosecuting

its own War Criminals and Wall St. Criminals? What if Democrats at least refused to go along with policies implemented by those same War Criminals would they be able to continue to control US Foreign Policies?

Anyone who does not oppose these policies is complicit.

Something has to be done, and the only thing I can think of is for the American people to throw out of office anyone who is a supporter of these policies in any way. The chance of that happening is probably near zero at this point since both parties are now involved.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #31)

Thu May 23, 2013, 03:11 PM

50. "Excellent post"?? It's pure CT and should be locked.

 

Sorry, I am mocking those that are obsessed with locking CT.

See this if you havent already:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2861442

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 08:59 AM

36. Whaddya mean "if"?

Terrorism is just the latest excuse to have wars and funnel money to "contractors" (read campaign contributors) - taxpayer money.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 10:02 AM

41. Money, greed, and "tough on..(place scary bogeyman here)" politics.

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 10:21 AM

43. It always is about fucking money

and on the few occasions when it's not, it's about power and arrogance!

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 10:22 AM

44. WELCOME TO DU!!!!

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 12:45 PM

46. "I've got one that can SEE!"

 

~They Live

Excepting that the war debt may have been purposely created as a weapon to smash the US economy so that the entire country could be sold off in pieces EXACTLY as they are doing in Michigan under the Koch brothers "emergency manager" policy, ala' what we saw in the 1980s and in the film "Wall Street" where vulture capitalists sold off company assets instead of saving worthwhile corporations and factories.

"The Shock Doctrine" and "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" are imperative reads.

Know that globalisation is a key driver of Plutonomy; they say as much in their own words:

http://occupyobservations.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-leaked-2006-citigroup-plutonomy-memo.html

Social engineering on a global scale.

(Kudos on a superb post!)

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 12:47 PM

47. Duh

always always always from the beginning of War.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 03:12 PM

51. Excellent post. nm

 

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 03:23 PM

52. All true up to the predictions which are still . . . predictions . . .

and which may or may not come true though much of it is highly probable. Only time will tell but I know that globally, most countries feel our days are numbered.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 03:27 PM

53. All of our woes come from corporate greed and those who come to rely on it.

If only people could be convinced that they don't have to live a life in subservience to corporations and Wall St. Not that they would listen anyway, the call of easy money, no matter the horrors it brings to others, far outweighs progressive instincts in all but the most devout.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 03:42 PM

54. Then the fact that they cost the US so much would be odd, to say the least.


Arguments that the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for profit are implausible, given how massive the financial cost of doing so was compared to the limited benefits.

I'm afraid I think this belongs in "creative speculation", not the realms of serious discussion.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #54)

Thu May 23, 2013, 04:34 PM

56. I think you are confusing the cost to taxpayers with

 

the profits for certain large corporations and the bonuses of their CEO's.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #54)

Thu May 23, 2013, 04:38 PM

57. America didn't invade Iraq for profit

 

it lost very heavily on the deal.

Halliburton did though.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Reply #57)

Thu May 23, 2013, 06:35 PM

59. Halliburton, Exxon, and the other Global Corporations.

Remember back when Cheney & Rumsfeld told us that
"The Oil will pay for the War"
....?
LOL!
SEE: Iraqi Oil Law

The American taxpayer paid for the WAR with our Blood and Money.
However, the Global Oil Cartel will be GLAD to SELL us some of their loot,
at market price, of course.

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 04:34 PM

55. What if people were programmed

into believing they have no free will to change anything?

What if people were incrementally programmed into believing that demonstrating for peace and a clean environment, and unionizing was domestic terrorism? That educated people were elitists and fundamentalist views became accepted into the mainstream?

What if people forgot how powerful we are if we are in solidarity with each other where it counts?

And what would happen if we decided to resist this dysfunctional and abusive programming? What would happen if we the people recognized what parts of our country have grown sociopathic--and decided not to support, do business, fight for them or listen to it's craziness any more?

What would happen if we weaned ourselves off of the fear and blood and shock and awe, and focused on declaring independence from the corporations and banks?



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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 04:41 PM

58. Thank you all for the many welcome messages

 

and very positive encouragement from the various many comments on this thread.

I feel right at home on DU already

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Response to TakeALeftTurn (Original post)

Thu May 23, 2013, 10:05 PM

61. kick

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