I worked in 1992 to elect Bill Clinton President, I will work again to elect Hillary in 2016

[DainBramaged]

If I am still here.

I will do what ever I can to help.


Have a great evening.


DB

[immoderate]

1. I bet we could do better.

DLC democrats work for the rulers.

--imm

[DainBramaged]

4. Of course we can always do better

That's what was said in 2000, and in 2004 and 2008 here.


Sorry we can't please you all of the time.....

[immoderate]

13. But pleasing me should be you only consideration...

...or do I detect some irony?

Hillary has the virtue of being preferable to any Republican you could name. And I guess she's well prepared.

But I don't think she's in it for us.

--imm

[DainBramaged]

17. So much hate for Hillary on this board

You folks mifght as well support Christie...

[immoderate]

23. Well, I wouldn't be overjoyed at another cabinet from Wall Street...

Hillary is locked in to the same crowd as Obama. There may be others with lesser obligations.

Preferring someone else is not the same thing as hatred. (Hate is a term I don't use or feel against people. Nevertheless I expect that the "Christie" remark was some hyperbole? )

--imm

[DainBramaged]

31. Yada yada yada, no vote for you

over-analyzing is your thing too......

[Skittles]

32. LOL

it's like Grumpy is speaking

[treestar]

47. How come you can't convince voters

to vote for someone who does not "work for the rulers?"

These "rulers" are all elected officials. Our elections are considered free and fare by international monitors.

[immoderate]

48. Elected officials are not the "rulers," they work for them.

They should be working for the electorate.

--imm

[treestar]

50. Then why do we elect them, freely?

That kind of talk doesn't sit well with most voters, as only a minority are revolutionaries. Most people are satisfied with the system we have. It is democratic. We may be lazy and negligent at picking our leaders, but we do pick them. In history, they have created bureaucracies that regulate the fatcats (of which they still complain).

[immoderate]

56. Because of the illusion of democracy.

Are Americans really in favor of cutting wages, slashing services, maximizing profits, limiting voting rights, destroying public education, terminating women's rights of choice, and cutting aid to the poor?

That's what's happening. The House of Representatives was elected by a minority. Some state governments are in the control of unelected individuals.

The methods of control are sophisticated. If the public had a clear vision they would not be so compliant.

--imm

[treestar]

58. I've met Americans who are in favor of all of that, unfortunately

Conservatives actually think that stuff. They make up a good chunk of the electorate.

I wouldn't call the House so disproportionate as the Senate. That's where the red states get disproportionate power.

[immoderate]

60. Conservatives think that things that hurt the poor will help them.

They think that cutting open the golden goose will lead to a trove of golden eggs. It's logical, but wrong.

Public opinion is malleable. And the owners of the means of production and communication press that advantage.

--imm

[Auntie Bush]

2. I'm with you 100% DB

[Beacool]

3. Hear, hear!!!

There'll be plenty of people to help out.

[Marr]

5. I won't vote for another DLC/Third Way Democrat, period.

At any level of government.

[DainBramaged]

6. I guess voting Republican would be your next choice?

How many Presidential elections have you sat out since 2000, all of them?


Some day you'll have to participate or just become a Republican.


Thanks for playing.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

10. "Some day you'll have to participate or just become a Republican."

Yes, but people want more than just slogans.

[DainBramaged]

18. Of course you didn't answer the question, why did I think you would?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

25. I have voted in every election since I was old enough.

Perhaps you mistook me for Marr?

But like I wrote before: people want more than just slogans or "insert bogeyman republican name here."

[DainBramaged]

51. And I have voted Democratic in every election since I turned 18 over 4 decades ago

I noticed you left that out......


oh well, no more debate with you..........

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

63. You're not debating. You're wating my time.

And I have voted Democratic in every election since I turned 18 over 4 decades ago

Same here. How's that for a pissing contest?

Now back to those GOP bogeymen.

[SwampG8r]

39. what is the difference between dlc/3rdway dems and republicans?

the republicans are more honest about their intentions

[Auntie Bush]

53. Balogna!

That's like saying Hillary is a ReThug. You haven't been listening to her.

[SwampG8r]

66. bologna

if she is 3rd way
and she is
she is republican lite

[Marr]

46. I said no "more".

I haven't sat out any elections-- not that it's any of your damned business.

I said I won't vote for any "more" DLC/Third Way Democrats, and I mean it. That could mean voting third party when the only other option is one of these Republicans in Democrat's clothing, or it may mean writing someone in.

What I do know is that electing these clowns is sometimes even worse than just having a Republican, and I'm done enabling the party's constant walk to the right. It's a sucker's game, and it's for suckers. But thanks for playing.

[DainBramaged]

52. (sigh)

I will say one last thing

George W. Asshole won because a few million people thought that voting for Nader was a better option.


And look what the fuck it got us.




Have a nice life, I'd be ashamed to participate here if I thought that way.

[Marr]

54. You really need to see a professional about that Nader fixation. /nt

[betterdemsonly]

62. & Romney could not have gotten chained cpi passed

Where as Obama might. I guess lesser evilism is officially dead.

[peacebird]

59. I will work hard to get a Dem ruled House first, and then strengthen our numbers in the Senate.

And for Pres I will hopefully get to vote for a Non-DLC/non-thirdway Dem candidate

[betterdemsonly]

61. Thank you

Can we start a mailing list, or a messageboard, facebook, or website. We need to have an organized movement to identify, avoid, and spread information about the new democrats, and their candidates and how they are promoting stuff like social security privatization in the Democratic Party. Obama & Billary are both New Democrats. They are all promoters of austerity and attacks on social security.

[TheKentuckian]

7. Fuck Hillary and the Turd Way crooks.

What are you suicidal? How many corporate scammers and betrayers do we need?

[forestpath]

9. +1

[DainBramaged]

16. What are you?

Jesus just go eat a cactus.

Yep the Hillary hate is starting early here. And DLC? Bullshit we're ruled by the corporations and WE HAVE NOT A FUCKING WORD TO SAY IN THIS FIGHT


Suicidal, nice choice of words.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

8. Do you even know who the other Dem candidates will be?

If Biden runs?

If there is another Obama type?


Can you be so certain this soon?

[Nevernose]

12. Biden will sadly be too old to win in 2016

74 is pushing it, politically speaking. He just couldn't win. And honestly, Biden seemed to change (for the better) just a couple of weeks before my state's caucus. If I'd seen that Biden 18 months earlier, we might have a president Biden right now.

To be fair: Jimmy Carter will be 92 in 2016, and in 2016 he'll still be the smartest dude I've ever met, and I'd still vote for him.

[DainBramaged]

21. Do you?

What does my OP say?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

26. Your OP fails to mention if she is running or plans to.

In fact it says mostly what you had done years before.

[Lil Missy]

28. Biden won't run if Hillary runs. n/t

[davidpdx]

37. To some it doesn't matter if there is other candidates

I for one do want to see who will run in the primary before I decide. Will that be Clinton? Maybe or maybe not.

Personally I think neither Biden nor Clinton will run and it will be a wide open field.

[winter is coming]

11. 3.5 years before Election Day, you've decided to support a DLC candidate who lost

a campaign she should have won in '08? Gotta admire that tunnel vision.

[DainBramaged]

14. Hatters gonna hate.......

So sad there is such Hillary hate here.....

PS I'll support who I damn well fucking please.

[winter is coming]

22. Not everyone who disagrees with your choice of candidate is a hater.

But if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to imagine that the only people reluctant to support Hillary do so out of personal animosity, then knock yourself out.

on edit: You say you've decided to support Hillary in 2016. Your choice, of course, but you'd probably stand a better chance of persuading others that it should be their choice, too, if you told us why you feel so strongly about supporting her. All you've done so far is insult anyone who disagrees with you and imply that the only choice we'll have will be Hillary or a Republican, which is not an effective way to win anyone over.

[DainBramaged]

30. Not my job to persuade others or win anyone over, wow what a concept

you think this is a tent revival or something?


One day you folks who think my job is to make believers out of others will get it.


MY JOB is to poke a stick in your eye and get a reaction. It's obvious you think those of us here are trying to convert YOU to the Libural Loony Left way of thinking. We aren't, we don't give a shit what you think.




I KNOW you ain't voting for her.................

[winter is coming]

41. If she's the Democratic nominee, I will vote for her.

But she's a centrist, and I'm a progressive. Unless the rest of the field are total duds, I don't see myself supporting her as a primary candidate.

Not everyone who isn't falling over themselves to commit to Hillary before the primaries have even begun is a Republican, and behaving as if they are makes you look foolish. And being a hostile jerk isn't the smartest way to represent your candidate.

[Douglas Carpenter]

15. AMEN! America needs a strong centist!

Someone who will get government off the back of job creators, promote free trade worldwide, fight for and win entitlement reforms, lesson the burden on the banks and investment houses and expand our military commitments abroad. That would be such a change, wouldn't it?

[discharge]

19. You're the greatest.

Do you think Hillary will follow Bill and Obama and ram some more secretive, job-killing free trade deals?

[DainBramaged]

20. I guess Christie is your guy?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

27. Don't forget to bring in Sarah, Mitt or Newt.

They work just as well.

[SwampG8r]

40. is this what it looks like?

an attempt to run the "obama defense playbook" of du but with hillary as the new quarterback?
start with the easy plays like "so you will vote for (villanous republican) instead?" and then we work up to the more difficult plays like "you cant understand its multi dimensional chess" or "its a genius bluff"
it looks to me just like thats what is being tried here

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

45. I'm not against Hilary, but I want to see other candidates enter the Dem field.

I want to see some ideas that were not born in the last century. Is that a bad thing?

[SwampG8r]

65. im sorry i didnt make myself clear

we agree
i was asking you if what you were responding to was what it looked like to me

[hfojvt]

24. I basically voted for Nader in 1992

actually I voted for James Warren and Estelle DeBates, who got 3,000 less votes than LaRouche.

I saw Perot, Bush Sr., and Clinton as 3 blind Republicans. After Reagan, Bush seemed like a moderate, not too much worse than Clinton, who also seemed like a moderate Republican, or at least only about 12 cents different from one.

In 1996, I thought Clinton had sucked and cast another 6th party protest vote. Clinton was predicted to win handily anyway, so I figured my protest vote would not help to elect Dole. I certainly did not want to help elect Dole. I always liked Dole. I remembered him fondly from the 1976 debate against Mondale, but his embrace of Kemp/Laffer/Reaganomics was anathema to me. So I was happy when he lost. But Clinton signed a tax cut for the rich into law anyway in his 2nd term. http://ctj.org/html/desc97.htm What a guy.

In 2000, I was ABC, or really ADBC. Any Democrat But Clinton, and in 2016 I will still be ABC.

Although I doubt anybody can beat her.

But I always think evil is gonna win.

[DainBramaged]

29. Then you are part of the problem and not part of the soution

since there will neve be a perfect candidate for you


Haters gonna hate

[hfojvt]

42. I certainly do hate

things like

tax cuts for the rich and the supposed Democrats who promote them and sign them into law

Democrats who keep promoting odious Republican talking points like "the era of big government is over" or "tax cuts create jobs" or "we need entitlement reform" or "tax reform should lower tax rates", etc.

In the end, Clinton was a far bigger part of the problem than I ever was http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022085948

[graham4anything]

33. Are you happy with Ralph Nader's choice of Alito and Roberts on the court?

Who would you have voted for in 1968?

LBJ or Nixon
The race we were denied that should have been
A battle for the heart of the country

[hfojvt]

44. Gore was probably just as Conservadem as Clinton

but I always liked him.

Maybe because of "Earth in the balance" and he seemed to be running a populist campaign in 2000 instead of campaigning on Reaganomics like Clinton did in 1992.

Plus, just as in 1996, it was obviously very important to defeat the Republican.

In fact, I sorta credit myself for Gore winning Iowa. His entire victory margin for the state came from Cerro Gordo, Floyd, Mitchell, and Worth counties.

Those are all counties covered by the Mason City Globe Gazette, where I wrote an LTTE on October 16th in favor of Gore, and against Bush. It is always possible that my LTTE made the difference in those counties and thus in the state of Iowa.

It's too bad there was not somebody like me in New Hampshire or that my LTTE did not go viral and go nationwide.

But it's also possible that my LTTE did not make any more difference than anything else I have tried to do. Cerrro Gordo normally votes Democratic anyway, at least for President. The idiotic Congressional district voted about 60-40 for Gore, but then also 60-40 to send the incumbent Republican Congressman (Nussle) back to Washington.

But I try what I try. I did what I could to defeat Bush in 2000, and did what I could to defeat Clinton in 2008.

And I will do it again in 2015, if I am still alive and if she runs.

To hell with Hillary, let's nominate a Democrat instead.

Maybe Mark Dayton.

Otherwise I don't know who we have that doesn't suck, that isn't part of the Rubin wing of the Democratic Party.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. If she's the nominee.

Shes not my top choice, but 2016 is a ways out.

[graham4anything]

35. I am 100% for Hillary in 2016, even though I worked for Jerry Brown/Jesse Jackson in 1992

Even though I was 100000% for Barack Obama in 2004,(yes 2004, and I have my button dated 2004 to prove it), 2008 and 2012

Hillary did not lose in 2008 as Hillary did not run in the general election.
2008 was history making, and it is equal to (as an example)

If Willie Mays and Babe Ruth had played the exact same time and went against each other for the home run title
or
If Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods, at the height of each career, played the entire year with one winning 7 tournaments and the other 8.

Hillary did something very, very few have done. Teddy Kennedy comes to mind himself.
She dusted off the dirt and immediately became the greatest SOS of all time and in doing so, working WITH not against, WITHIN not tearing it down to take over, but WITHIN for a common goal, 100% earned, I repeat EARNED my respect and not only that

Hillary brings something to the table that NO ONE ever did

People will be voting FOR HILLARY for many different reasons, but all of which makes Hillary as long as she runs, unbeatable.

There is NO Barack Obama in 2016. In fact, the one and only person who would be the 2016
Barack Obama would be Michelle Obama and Michelle is not going to run(possibly in 2024 after Hillary second term).

I have NEVER in the 50 years of Presidential elections ever recall any race with no incumbent running that one candidate has the high % in poll after poll and growing over the 2nd place person. In fact, Joe Biden is #2, and there is NO third person

Making the strong possiblity that Joe will run to (football term) flank Hillary and block out any of the other neverwillbees and wannabees from getting more than a handful of percent.

The only question we don't know is-
Will Joe Biden again be the VP with HIllary, something that is indeed legal, there is no term limit on a VP and Biden would become the #1 VP of all time, or will Biden run knowning he will be given the SOS job come Jan. 17, 2017, a job he always wanted

And the irony is, like 1992, Hillary most likely shall be running against a Bush, Jeb Bush.
And it takes a Clinton to defeat a Bush.

Ignore the haters. What are they going to do, vote for Jeb? (and if they really were to do that, they would like in 1988 with 41, do so anyway(or 2000 with Nader).
So one doesn't really need to convince that crew as they are such a small number, though they speak loud

I predict 450 plus electoral votes including Texas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia and others.
And that is against Jeb, Christie, Rubio, Rand, whomever.
It will truly be 1964 all over again, as 2012 was also 1964

[safeinOhio]

36. One of the reasons I'm with ya.

I work with some of the most right-wing tea-baggers you'll ever meet, when they go on and on about the President and how bad the Democratic party is, all I have to say is "who do you have that'll beat Hillary" and watch them start to spit and turn all red in the face. They know the answer. The most important thing we can do is keep the other party out of the White House.

[BlueStater]

38. 24 years of Clintons.

And in a country of 300 million people, this party has never even really bothered to look for other serious alternatives. Fucking sad.

[hobbit709]

43. I will vote for her IF she is the nominee

I will NOT vote for her in the primaries. Even Obama was not even close to my first choice though he ranked higher than Hillary in my book at the time.

If she becomes the nominee then once again it will become a hold my nose and vote election-as way too many of them have been in the last 40 years.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

49. I'll be right there with you, comrade.

[Apophis]

55. I won't.

I'll work to get someone more progressive in office.

[Arctic Dave]

57. Hillary / Emmanual!!!!

Let's have a gore / loserman, The sequal.


No thanks.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. Is this the same Hillary that voted for and supported Bush's war in Iraq?

Not to mention the ongoing lost war in Afghanistan?