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Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:29 PM

I don't understand how people can continue to be Americans.

You were born into this institution that would commit such atrocities, but you don't have to stay.

Me? I'm not leaving, because I can foment change from within.



The Trail of Tears is a name given to the forced relocation and movement of Native American nations from southeastern parts of the United States following the Indian Removal Act of 1830. The removal included many members of the Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek), Seminole, Chickasaw, and Choctaw nations, among others in the United States, from their homelands to Indian Territory (eastern sections of the present-day state of Oklahoma). The phrase originated from a description of the removal of the Choctaw Nation in 1831.

Many Native Americans suffered from exposure, disease and starvation en route to their destinations. Many died, including 60,000 of the 130,000 relocated Cherokee, intermarried and accompanying European-Americans, and the 2,000 African-American free blacks and slaves owned by the Cherokee they took with them. European Americans and African American freedmen and slaves also participated in the Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee Creek and Seminole forced relocations.

In 1831, the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee Creek, and Seminole (sometimes collectively referred to as the Five Civilized Tribes) were living as autonomous nations in what would be called the American Deep South. The process of cultural transformation (proposed by George Washington and Henry Knox) was gaining momentum, especially among the Cherokee and Choctaw. Andrew Jackson continued and renewed the political and military effort for the removal of the Native Americans from these lands with the passage of the Indian Removal Act of 1830.

In 1831 the Choctaw were the first to be removed, and they became the model for all other removals. After the Choctaw, the Seminole were removed in 1832, the Creek in 1834, then the Chickasaw in 1837, and finally the Cherokee in 1838. After removal, some Native Americans remained in their ancient homelands - the Choctaw are found in Mississippi, the Seminole in Florida, the Creek in Alabama, and the Cherokee in North Carolina. A limited number of non-native Americans (including African-Americans - usually as slaves) also accompanied the Native American nations on the trek westward. By 1837, 46,000 Native Americans from these southeastern states had been removed from their homelands thereby opening 25 million acres (100,000 km2) for predominantly white settlement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply I don't understand how people can continue to be Americans. (Original post)
onehandle Mar 2013 OP
ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #1
onehandle Mar 2013 #2
Trillo Mar 2013 #13
djean111 Mar 2013 #5
slackmaster Mar 2013 #6
djean111 Mar 2013 #3
stevenleser Mar 2013 #17
djean111 Mar 2013 #20
AndyA Mar 2013 #4
Neoma Mar 2013 #21
nyquil_man Mar 2013 #7
onehandle Mar 2013 #10
nyquil_man Mar 2013 #12
StarlightGold Mar 2013 #16
Cirque du So-What Mar 2013 #8
backscatter712 Mar 2013 #9
kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #11
jollyreaper2112 Mar 2013 #14
onehandle Mar 2013 #15
jollyreaper2112 Mar 2013 #19
treestar Mar 2013 #18

Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:32 PM

1. Give me the money to move my family, and grantee my citizenship in another

English-speaking, first-world country, and I'll go.

eta: of course the country I move to should not have a history of atrocities.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:34 PM

2. Ooh. A country free from atrocities.

That would be a tough find.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:43 PM

13. What are you saying?

You wrote, "I don't understand how people can continue to be Americans. ... You were born into this institution that would commit such atrocities, but you don't have to stay." and " A country free from atrocities. ... That would be a tough find."

It's kind of confusing to reconcile.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:36 PM

5. What you want, of course, is well-nigh impossible, unless you have a job skill someone wants.

 

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #1)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:37 PM

6. No history of atrocities, English-speaking, and First World?

 

You can rule out Canada, the UK, and Australia.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:35 PM

3. That is sort of like saying all catholics should leave their church because of the sins of the

 

hierarchy. (I am an atheist, but I don't confuse people of a faith with their quite-unholy leadership).
No one can help where they are born.
Not as easy to just leave a country, either.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #3)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:53 PM

17. I think that is exactly the point they are trying to make. nt

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:58 PM

20. Thanks. I think a sarcasm tag might have helped me, some days I miss the sarcasm,

 

some days I hope some things are sarcastic!

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:35 PM

4. Now the tribal leaders are taking advantage of Native Americans

Many of the tribes are making big bucks with casinos, but they aren't helping their very own people when it comes to wages, health care, etc.

I guess something happens to people when they make it to the top. They stop caring about the folks who depend on them to get on their feet and have a chance at making something of their lives.

A $250 million casino expansion was just announced here, and the forums are full of comments about how the tribal leaders will spend this kind of money to build new buildings, but won't address wage issues, lack of access to health care, and other things that would help everyone be successful.

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Response to AndyA (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:58 PM

21. Funny.

It probably isn't the Indians that actually own those, but the casino corporations that found a loophole in the law by which they can put their casinos on Native American land.

All Indians do not live in teepees (or casinos) by Catherine C. Robbins might explain better.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:38 PM

7. A person can live without a church.

Stateless persons don't have it quite so easy.

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Response to nyquil_man (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:41 PM

10. You can choose your 'state.' nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:42 PM

12. You can choose not to have a church.

Good luck choosing not to live in a nation.

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Response to onehandle (Reply #10)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:51 PM

16. Not nearly as easily

As choosing a religion, come on!

Picking up family and relocating to another land or driving two blocks away to another church.

Golly gee, I guess they're both the same!

People CAN change religions, but they just don't WANT to. I CAN change my lifetime membership in a club that excludes and demonizes Blacks, Jewish, women, etc., but it's been wonderful for ME. I got mine, so too bad about the demonized and discriminated against. I'll just play the "Family Tradition" card and that will rationalize it.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:41 PM

8. I agree that the US has done some abhorrent things

but relocation is impractical for many people. Aside from monetary considerations, there is also the matter of leaving family behind in many cases. Besides, what nation has squeaky-clean hands regarding how they treated indigenous peoples, those considered 'outsiders,' or even their own peoples, for that matter? Iceland may come closest to 'purity' regarding indigenous peoples, but I may be mistaken.

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:41 PM

9. This shit again?

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:42 PM

11. No American alive bears any responsibility whatsoever for the Trail of Tears.

 

What exactly is your point??

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Response to onehandle (Original post)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:47 PM

14. you silly person

It's easier to leave a religion than a country.

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:51 PM

15. Really? So we should rationalize what atrocity we can support by how much it costs? nt

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Response to onehandle (Reply #15)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:57 PM

19. wonderful

Ok, how do I go about not supporting the US government? Renounce citizenship? Move to Cuba? Become a tax protester out in the midwest and get killed in a firefight with federal agents?

I don't support our government's policies. I have no idea how to translate that into action.

I don't support organized religion. I can translate that into action by not belonging.

I don't support the Democratic Party's selling out of party principles. That's why I'm an independent.

I don't support the GOP at all and was never a member.

The logical fallacy you're making is "Well, we can't feed everyone in Africa so let's not feed this kid."

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Response to jollyreaper2112 (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 20, 2013, 01:57 PM

18. I agree it's not the same enough

Whoever brought up the idea didn't have a good one.

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