HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » The Steubenville gang rap...

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:40 PM

The Steubenville gang rape case should demand a discussion

of what "consent" means with high-school aged boys all across the nation. From PE classes (where those still exist) and sports team practices to living rooms, "consent" needs to be clearly defined for boys. If it is not, they will take just about anything as consent, even the failure to say "no" for any reason. It can be discussed by moms or dads, teachers or religious leaders. But it must be discussed, defined, and made perfectly clear.

When it comes to sex, consent does not just mean someone giving in after wheedling and whining. It does not mean not vehemently protesting what is going on. It means something else.

In my opinion, consent for teenagers should not just be "assent," but enthusiastic and eager consent, in action, in voice, and in deed. It shouldn't be just not protesting too much after a long make-out session, when the boy finally wears a girl down and she gives up. It should not be, "Well, OK," or "I guess so..." spoken in a frustrated, tired voice.

It should be clear and unmistakable consent, made spontaneously, gladly and without pressure of any kind. Anything else is not consent. That's how my father defined it for me when I was 14 years old, sporting 10 inches of growth in height over the previous year, a suddenly deep voice that no longer broke at times, and a case of severe hormonal influence. That's what my father told me consent was, and that anything less was not really consent.

It's up to us adults to explain what consent is to our sons and other adolescents. They don't know. Their judgment is cloudy, and their hormones are overactive. We need to make it clear to them. We need to make it unmistakable that lack of real consent means rape.

Real consent. Genuine, happy, boisterous consent. Nothing else will do. Nothing else is acceptable.

79 replies, 5223 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 79 replies Author Time Post
Reply The Steubenville gang rape case should demand a discussion (Original post)
MineralMan Mar 2013 OP
Drale Mar 2013 #1
MineralMan Mar 2013 #2
arely staircase Mar 2013 #3
Post removed Mar 2013 #4
LineLineReply .
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2013 #6
La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #7
MineralMan Mar 2013 #8
Rex Mar 2013 #18
Hulk Smash Mar 2013 #43
MineralMan Mar 2013 #46
Rex Mar 2013 #48
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #53
Rex Mar 2013 #59
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #61
Rex Mar 2013 #66
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #50
fitman Mar 2013 #60
Skittles Mar 2013 #63
msanthrope Mar 2013 #70
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2013 #72
Skittles Mar 2013 #73
bettyellen Mar 2013 #75
Skittles Mar 2013 #76
fitman Mar 2013 #79
BainsBane Mar 2013 #67
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #25
Skittles Mar 2013 #64
Skittles Mar 2013 #62
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #68
Rex Mar 2013 #5
MineralMan Mar 2013 #9
Rex Mar 2013 #12
MineralMan Mar 2013 #14
Rex Mar 2013 #17
MineralMan Mar 2013 #19
Rex Mar 2013 #22
BainsBane Mar 2013 #21
MineralMan Mar 2013 #27
BainsBane Mar 2013 #33
MineralMan Mar 2013 #40
Rex Mar 2013 #28
siligut Mar 2013 #10
MineralMan Mar 2013 #11
siligut Mar 2013 #13
MineralMan Mar 2013 #16
siligut Mar 2013 #29
MineralMan Mar 2013 #31
siligut Mar 2013 #36
BainsBane Mar 2013 #26
MineralMan Mar 2013 #30
BainsBane Mar 2013 #49
MineralMan Mar 2013 #51
Rex Mar 2013 #15
redqueen Mar 2013 #35
siligut Mar 2013 #38
redqueen Mar 2013 #41
siligut Mar 2013 #52
redqueen Mar 2013 #58
MineralMan Mar 2013 #47
siligut Mar 2013 #55
redqueen Mar 2013 #23
Rex Mar 2013 #34
redqueen Mar 2013 #37
Rex Mar 2013 #42
MadrasT Mar 2013 #74
redqueen Mar 2013 #20
MineralMan Mar 2013 #24
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #32
arely staircase Mar 2013 #39
redqueen Mar 2013 #44
Demo_Chris Mar 2013 #56
arely staircase Mar 2013 #57
BainsBane Mar 2013 #65
geek tragedy Mar 2013 #45
NCTraveler Mar 2013 #54
bettyellen Mar 2013 #69
seabeyond Mar 2013 #71
rrneck Mar 2013 #77
MineralMan Mar 2013 #78

Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:43 PM

1. I don't understand how you could do anything without consent

Hell, I've never even kissed a girl for the first time without making sure it was ok with her first. Its not the most romantic first kiss but its far better to be safe than sorry.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Drale (Reply #1)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:45 PM

2. Yes. I followed my father's advice to the letter.

I understood what he said. It didn't slow things down all that much, really, but it clarified things to me. And he wasn't just talking about intercourse, but about the entire sexual exploration adventure kids have done forever.

As for kissing, I discovered that the best consent came when the girl took the initiative and kissed me first. That always led to the very best kisses of all. The same principle holds throughout the whole sex thing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:49 PM

3. "Genuine, happy, boisterous consent"

yes, there should be no doubt. i think it is sit down and talk time for the boys/young men of the nation, with this as the teachable moment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:52 PM

6. .

Good one!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:52 PM

7. LOL

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:58 PM

8. Because it is the boys who do the raping, you see.

As for kids who are raised right not having sex in high school, you're simply incorrect. All kinds of kids, raised in all kinds of ways, find experimenting with their sexuality something worth doing during their high school years. And they engage in those activities in large numbers. Sex isn't just having intercourse. It's a process, and kids get involved in that process, whether their parents think they should or not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:13 PM

18. Because they are the ones with the penis?

 

nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #18)


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:43 PM

46. Dream on. High school kids will always have sex

at some level or another. Biology. Wishing it were not the case will not make high school sex disappear. And it's not just boys, either.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:45 PM

48. Who said anything about abstaining? We are talking about Rape Culture.

 

Please do not change the subject. If you want to discuss an 'abstinence only' program for boys and girls in school then start another thread on it.

BOYS have this thing called a penis. Some use it to rape girls. THAT is why we focus on boys and not girls.

Does that make sense?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #48)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:48 PM

53. See this link as to what this poster understands

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #53)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:56 PM

59. So Hulk won't support Hillary because she voted for the IWR?

 

Yet what about all the MEN that voted for the IWR that are Ds? Don't see him complaining that he WON'T vote for any of them if they decide to run...I mean if a person is FAIR, then shouldn't that statement be, "I won't vote for ANY Dem that voted for the IWR"?

True colors...you pegged Hulk right and to boot they seem to be a woman hater. Ya I said it jury.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #59)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:00 PM

61. Not a specific sexist, more like a Cave dweller.

 

The abstinence-only hook is a pretty dead giveway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #61)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:05 PM

66. Ya my eyes rolled so far back into my head

 

(when I read that) that I had to go looking for them. I cannot stand thread hi-jacking. The NEED to blame women is also another dead giveaway. I think some of the Cavemen 'cannot help themselves'. Of course they can, but that is their excuse in life to run roughshod over the rest of us.

Their deep-seated hatred of women is disturbing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:47 PM

50. OFFS. If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:56 PM

60. Having sex at age 16

 



was the best thing to happen to me. I was no longer bouncing off the walls with typical male anxiety of the day over thinking I would never getting laid and my grades actually improved. Sex is great but found out skittles did not fall from the heavens after it happened. Actually my first though was "is that it?" Sort of like been there, done that.

My relationship/dating with women was also better. While all my friends were just desperate to get into a women's pants and would do/say anything they could to make it happen I had already done that and wanted the relationship to be more than just sex and had great relationships in HS with several women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to fitman (Reply #60)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:03 PM

63. I WOULD FALL FROM THE HEAVENS FOR YOU FITMAN MY SWEET

YES INDEED

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:25 PM

70. When I read his post I thought of you, not the candy. I spend waaaay too much time here. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #63)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:40 PM

72. So I guess our imaginary relationship means nothing to you then. GOOD DAY MA'AM! :-P

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #72)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 06:54 PM

73. oh stop being such a baby

you know no one could ever replace my Guy Whitey Corngood

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #63)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:15 AM

75. LOL

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #75)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:51 AM

76. HE NEEDS TO GIVE ME A HEADS UP NEXT TIME!

HEY WAIT - WAS THAT A PUN? OMG I SLAY MYSELF.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #63)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 10:47 AM

79. You will have to fight my wife

 

Sorry to disappoint...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hulk Smash (Reply #43)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:08 PM

67. What about adults?

What about when they do start having sex? They need to know what rape is and how to hold others accountable for bad behavior.

You may wish young kinds aren't having sex, but that doesn't make it so. That's how Sarah Palin's daughter has two children before age 18. Abstinence only education results in MORE unwanted pregnancies, not fewer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

25. Oh MIRT . . . look over here. nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #25)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:04 PM

64. no no geek look over THERE!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Post removed (Reply #4)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:01 PM

62. I have to say

you have a "head in the sand" conservative attitude - I bet you think if kids are "raised right" they don't need no stinking sex ed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Skittles (Reply #62)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:10 PM

68. Hey, it works for Texas and Mississippi.

 

They have abstinence-only education, and look how low their teen pregnancy rates are . . . You libruls just can't argue with facts. (:sarcasm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:51 PM

5. Consent, yes. No consent, no.

 

I've grown up always puzzled by other men that don't see this topic as black and white and want to elaborate on what 'consent' means. It mean YES. Maybe just to hold hands. Maybe a kiss, but I never knew anyone growing up that didn't think of rape in terms of black and white. It is rape if you force yourself on someone else without their consent. Everyone knew this and like I say it puzzles me as to the men that just 'don't get it'. What is not to get?

Is it really that complex? No, I don't think so at all.

I think some men like to make excuses for themselves.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:00 PM

9. Apparently the definition isn't as solid as it should be for some.

Those boys in Steubenville are arguing, through their lawyer, that consent can even be the inability to say "no" emphatically enough, even if that inability is caused by large quantities of alcohol. It looks to me like men need to be explaining to boys what consent really means. I think some don't actually know what it really means, both men and boys.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #9)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:07 PM

12. I think they knew exactly what they were doing and didn't care

 

about the consequences. I think they are now trying everything in the world to get out of going to jail, even making up BS statements like the one you posted from their lawyer. Just my opinion, of course.

Also, you do raise a very important point - men need to talk to younger men not just about relationship consequences, but how sex and alcohol are very bad combinations and can lead to dire results the next day. Or any mind altering drug is harmful to a relationship if you are trying to find out if someone likes you or not. How could you tell what is the drug and what is your natural thought process?

I do think all men know what NO means, I just don't buy some man or boy saying 'they didn't know'. BS.

Again, just my opinion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:09 PM

14. Not caring means that you ignore everything

to get exactly what you want. Men who do that when it comes to sex should end up in prison. Sadly, too many do not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #14)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:12 PM

17. True, nothing but predators at that point.

 

That they get away with it is a horrible crime and an injustice that cannot be erased.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #17)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:13 PM

19. Absolutely. The "defendants" in the Steubenville case

have a harsh lesson they need to learn. I hope the jury provides that lesson if the facts are as they have been presented so far.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #19)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:15 PM

22. Same here, if they do get away with it and the jury sides with them

 

it will be a huge travesty of justice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:15 PM

21. they were enabled to escape the consequences

by the culture around them: a coach who tells them to leave his house rather than calling the police; police who fail to arrest rapists and prosecutors, sometimes mothers of the accused, who fail to follow through with charges. Not to mention the boys surrounding the rapists who either congratulated them on raping girls or simply failed to stop them. All those, boys and girls alike, who shamed victims rather than denouncing and reporting rapists to the police share some responsibility. No means no, and failing to intervene means they allowed a violent criminal culture to thrive in Steubenville.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:19 PM

27. Yup. Inaction on the part of others contributed to this.

Unfortunately, we don't have any clear way to punish inaction in our legal system. But, we can and should encourage action to prevent such things from ever happening. We should reward that action as a culture, not excuse inaction.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #27)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:28 PM

33. That is where education can be most useful

I believe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #33)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:35 PM

40. I agree. I saw that at work

in my high school. We had a problem with bullying, even back in the early 60s in my small town in California. A popular local minister made it his campaign to teach ways to stop bullying. He started with his youthful churchgoers, of whom I was one. He taught us that it was wrong to tolerate bullying and that we should stand up to bullies and insist they stop. He kept up that teaching until we got it.

He then extended that to teaching the same thing to adult members of that church, the largest single congregation in that small town. Among those members was the high school football coach, who he counseled about the issue individually.

The upshot was that the teenagers from that church started doing what the minister taught. The coach made it an imperative for his team, and explained that nobody who ignored bullying would be allowed to remain on the team. Since some of the bullying originated among football team members, his message had an impact. A couple of people ended up being booted from the team.

Bullying shrank to near zero levels, because people started insisting that it stop. Tolerance for it went away, and so did the behavior.

That is how we should be taught, and in numbers large enough to make an impact. Rape is sexual bullying.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #21)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:20 PM

28. Yes, Rape Culture is alive and well in Steubenville.

 

I was shocked to see how far down the rabbit hole we go with this case. Supposed mentors, law enforcement, the community at large - amazing. You are so correct, so many were involved in the cover-up that it boggles the mind. How could they let such criminal activity go on and it really makes me wonder HOW long has this been going on? I doubt this is the first time, yes first time caught, but how many times over the years?

Horrible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:03 PM

10. It really is a power thing

Some primal thing that some men haven't shut down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:05 PM

11. Sex shouldn't be a power thing at all.

Where it is, someone didn't get the message. Everyone needs to get the message, loud and clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:09 PM

13. I agree. But power is one of those basic drives

These idiots didn't learn civil manners and thus haven't learned to control this base need to overpower and debase someone weaker than them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:12 PM

16. No, I don't think it is one of those basic drives.

I think it is one of those basic excuses people try to use. Putting personal power above others' wishes is the mark of a sociopath. That's not normal, and it's not basic. It's just wrong. Normal people don't have the "need to overpower and debase" anyone. That is the mark of a person who has a real mental issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #16)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:23 PM

29. Only one theory of human behavior

Basic drives being money, sex and power. That was Freud. He was held up and published by people who believed in him, probably the ancestors of these hedge fund managers and rapists.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #29)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:26 PM

31. I take an opposite position. For me, empathy and consideration

of one's interaction with others is the norm. To the extent someone does not have empathy for and consideration for others, that person is not normal. Sadly, too many people fall into that category. We need to be doing a better job of education in all areas to help people understand what is normal and abnormal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #31)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:30 PM

36. I am the same way

But I have met the money, sex and power sorts. I don't much like them and true, they lack empathy and consideration. Within their circles, they believe there are two types of people, those with power and those without.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:18 PM

26. yet some

even on DU are arguing that educating men endangers women and that it's wrong focus any energy on educating men about rape when we should be telling women to stay at home and avoid alcohol. How they imagine that women don't think about their safety all the time, escapes me, particularly when these same people are told that women are aware of such things 24/7.

Thanks for your post, Mineral Man. I'm glad you see the issue more clearly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #26)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:23 PM

30. Women should not have to take any action to avoid rape.

That they do take such action is a flaw in our cultural ethics. The act of rape should result in harsh punishment by the entire society and should never be excused or tolerated. It is a violation of one person's right to go unraped by someone for whom that right is not considered to exist. Such people are sociopaths and psychopaths, and should be removed from society.

Since that is not the case in our society, women are forced to take measures they should not have to take. It is a shame on the entire culture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #11)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:46 PM

49. Some who lack power in their daily lives

seek to gain it through sex.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BainsBane (Reply #49)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:47 PM

51. I'm sure that's true. Sad, but sure.

Something's missing in the society.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:10 PM

15. I agree, it is a power trip.

 

To subjugate another person via torture. In this case the torture being rape.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #10)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:29 PM

35. Domination is fetishized. In porn and in more ubiquitous examples of rape culture

it is romanticized and portrayed as sexy. Both boys and girls grow up absorbing these messages.

That's contributing to the problem in a major, major way.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #35)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:34 PM

38. And this gang behavior

Alone and without the alcohol not one of the boys would have carried through, but as a group . . .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:37 PM

41. I would like to believe that.

Due to the number of rapes where no alcohol or peer influence is likely involved, I'm not so confident.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #41)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:48 PM

52. The rape was a team effort and it will be a team effort to get these kids off

I agree with you, plenty of rape is committed by just one individual and without the use of alcohol.

But not in this case. Here they incapacitated their victim and goaded each other on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #52)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:52 PM

58. Yeah, I see what you mean.

Sigh. So sad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to siligut (Reply #38)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:44 PM

47. I'm not sure that's true. In some cases, what happened was doubtless

just an extension of what has happened before, but on an individual basis.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Reply #47)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:50 PM

55. Have other girls come forward?

I am not keeping up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to redqueen (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:28 PM

34. One question what does she mean by 'cis guy'?

 

Very good read, I recommend everyone click on the link.

Snip (so true)

'Is sex that special and magical and fucking life affirming for people? That it forgoes all the charm and nuance and social cues that propelled you toward the bedroom in the first place? When I was growing up, I always heard that sex required “enthusiastic and informed consent.” Coerced consent is not enthusiastic. I can think of nothing in my life that would be so all encompassing of my senses that it would blind me to a truth as obvious as that one.'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rex (Reply #34)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:32 PM

37. A male who has no obvious, so-called 'feminine' traits, I would say.

A guy whose outward presentation would not signal to anyone that he is anything but a man's man. (Short hair, 'manly' clothes in 'manly' colors, etc.)

Due to gender being a construct, its something I find puzzling to try to define.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #37)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:37 PM

42. Thanks.

 

You might think that a fractured statement, but I find it to be a great elaboration imo. A 'Manly Man' (as I've heard it said locally).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #23)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 07:59 PM

74. It's like she read my mind.

Great read, thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to redqueen (Reply #20)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:17 PM

24. That's very good, indeed.

Thanks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:27 PM

32. And to explain/convey it to other men.

 

Obviously, boys are more impressionable than grown men, but everyone needs to hear it.

We also need to keep in mind the peer pressure/rape culture dynamics that will resist any such good counsel provided.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:35 PM

39. lesson learned today from redqueen and her posse in another thread

'no means no' is not the best way to phrase it. 'anything but an explicit yes means no' is better.

if they felt like educating men, they did me in that regard today. still disagree with her, et al, over risk reduction educational messaging, but i will give credit here, where it is due.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #39)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:41 PM

44. lolwut... I'm not a leader!

You tryin'ta get me banned or somethin?

That did make me laugh though... 'redqueen and her posse'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #44)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:51 PM

56. Actually you ARE a leader

 

You are one of very few posters on these topics who's input I ALWAYS take extra time to consider -- even when, as is usually the case, I have nothing to add to the discussion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to redqueen (Reply #44)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:52 PM

57. yes you are

and in a larger sense you are right about this as well. the boys hi-fiving and driving friends around with the semi/un conscious girl are part of a larger problem (rape culture, if you will). and while i still find myself at odds with you on messaging and what we should be saying to girls/young women, i totally get what you are saying about changing that culture.

and to the original point i credit you and your posse with, more germain to this OP is that (just so there is no misunderstanding) lack of a yes means no. that is what we need to preach from the rooftops.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #57)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:05 PM

65. I don't think Red Queen is saying risk prevention is not important

In fact I know she isn't. She is saying broader education programs are also necessary and they have thus far received inadequate attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to arely staircase (Reply #39)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:42 PM

45. big props for admitting to learn something from someone you've been

 

disagreeing with.

Sadly, this is a rare occurrence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 04:49 PM

54. I am one of those who feel...

 

I am one of those who feel that the governments number one job is to protect its citizens, as many of us are. In the case of sexual abuse and rape, women, over all others, are and have been under attack. While the parents have a great role to play, the government needs to take this issue on aggressively. Their best method to get to the most people is within the public education system. There are many ways it could be done.

I thank the parents who actively do their jobs in this matter. It is clearly not enough. Enough of the continued assault on women. Education will not end the problem, though if taught at an early age, it will make a significant difference.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:18 PM

69. And girls too, need to hear this clearly communicated so they understand

 

That no one has a right to expect sex on demand. To understand its okay to change her mind, and crucial that her No be respected, and not treated like a maybe.
Both sexes have some messed up ideas, and I think coed is the way to go. Less confusion and more mutual understanding.

Glad to see people evolving past the lone sociopath theory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #69)


Response to MineralMan (Original post)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 01:56 AM

77. It means

teaching children the requirements of civilized behaivor, morals, personal responsibility and respect for oneself and others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rrneck (Reply #77)

Wed Mar 13, 2013, 08:44 AM

78. Exactly!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread