Is it ever OK to refer to the President as Barry or Barack?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 10:55 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm debating with someone about this in another forum. I think only Michelle Obama can refer to him as "Barack". I think he should only be referred to as Obama, Barack Obama, President Obama or Mr. Obama.

24 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	It's OK to refer to him as Barack.
	0 (0%)
	It's OK to refer to him as Barack or Barry.
	2 (8%)
	Only Barack Obama or President Obama will do.
	12 (50%)
	Only Obama, Barack Obama or President Obama will do.
	1 (4%)
	Word police suck.
	8 (33%)
	I'm a troll.
	0 (0%)
	Other.
	1 (4%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Skittles]

1. no

from what I have noticed, only rabid racist teabagger types do that kind of shit

[Tom Ripley]

2. Barry only if you are a childhood friend. Barack only if you are close friend or family. Obummer...

only if you're a dumbass.

[onenote]

22. Years ago he asked his family not to call him Barry

so I don't think even his childhood friends use that nomenclature anymore.

[IdaBriggs]

3. If you have a PERSONAL relationship (ex: childhood friend) and are having

a PERSONAL moment/conversation, then you call him whatever the two of you are comfortable with, but if he is in "President mode" then you use his title.

My two cents.

[mykpart]

4. What does his sister call him?

[Behind the Aegis]

5. Referring to the president as "Barry" is usually a sign of disrespect.

It is commonly used on the extremes of the right and the left.

[Heidi]

11. EDITED: Exactly. It OFTEN IS a dog whistle.

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 01:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Good morning, BtA!

[louis c]

13. There is no greater supporter of the President than I am, among my peers

I am a union progressive and head of my Democratic Ward Committee. I serve on the committee on political education for my local AFL-CIO body. I've walked New Hampshire and knocked on doors for Obama in 2008 and 2012. I've contributed money and so has my local union, of which I'm president.

Sometimes, in order to get an anti-Obama individual's "goat" I will say that I'm working for Barry. They look at me confused and I respond "only his friends can call him Barry".

So, I don't think it's a dog whistle all of the time.

[Heidi]

14. I appreciate your support for unions, your ward, and our president. However,

in general, I believe your use of the term "Barry" is an exception.

[louis c]

17. Thanks

We're all in this together.

[Bucky]

20. And yet there was a poster today who supported the president and got railed for saying Barry

There was complete pile on for an infrequent poster (member since 2011) who made a sympathetic, but concerned post about the nicarette gum. A vocal few DUers harassed him all through the thread, making a number of sarcastic allusions to this poster's intent. When the OP was alerted on, the Jury ruled 6-0 to keep the post; it was clearly, unquestionably a pro-Obama post by someone who just wasn't absorbed in internet subculture to get why "Barry" was offensive (although once alerted, he quickly changed it to "Barack&quot .

But what an ugly way to put a "Strangers Not Welcome" sign out. I hate witch hunts and I hate random loyalty tests. I hate it when insiders smugly assume an outsider's intentions and ostracize the outsider for it. But that was the face of DU today.

[narnian60]

27. WELL said.

[IADEMO2004]

37. 2nd that.

[Heidi]

38. I wasn't one of the DUers who harassed that member.

Context counts for a lot, I think you'll agree. The member you referenced has, in fact, been a member since 2004, the same year I joined DU. This fact persuaded me to take him at his word; my own practice is not to imply that a longtime DUer is a troll unless that member has demonstrated a pattern of disruptive behavior.

Perhaps the accusatory DUers saw, in the context of inauguration day, a low post-count, longtime member critiquing the president's personal behavior and thought "sleeper troll." I do think it's easier for some folks to question one's bona fides and hit "Post my reply!" than it is to do an advanced search (by author) and see whether that member has a history of disruption.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

39. I did just that and he doesn't.

I looked for a full year and his posts aren't trollish at all. I also DU mailed him and told him about the Meta thread. He's not concerned. He said he mostly reads these days and thinks some people here need to get a life.

[Heidi]

45. I searched, too. He's a big Feingold fan.

And I'm going to his thread right now to support him.

[Mdterp01]

54. I can attest to that

Had something similar happen with one of my posts yesterday and was viciously attacked.

[Enrique]

28. it's ok to disrespect the president

this is America.

[Lisa D]

47. And it's okay to voice dislike for disrespect of the president

this is America.

[Bucky]

60. And it's okay to dissent from voicing dislike for disrespect of the president

and it's still America. I can't believe our luck!

[Lisa D]

72. I know!

It's super fun all the way around

[Behind the Aegis]

64. No one said it wasn't.

[KamaAina]

62. I just met an old friend and Obama admirer in Hawai'i who called him "Barry"

She is an alumna of Punahou School, where Barry, er, Mr. Obama was on the basketball team. She even gave me a mini-Obama tour: his grandmother's apartment building, the Baskin-Robbins where he worked (it's still there!), and even his favoite shave ice (sno-cone) joint, which offers "Obama's Rainbow"!

[Behind the Aegis]

63. Which is why I used the qualifier "usually."

[Xithras]

67. Exactly. No different than "George" or "Shrub"

It's an insult and it's meant that way. Considering that I've heard him called far worse in my own presence (I just heard someone refer to him as the "N****r In Chief" at a gas station yesterday), calling him Barack is a fairly mellow insult.

[CreekDog]

6. anyone who won't call him by the name he's been given and asked people to call him is being an ass

that's all.

[AngryOldDem]

7. Barry is too familiar for most people...

...and has become an insulting way to refer to him. The only way anyone should call him Barry is if he specifically tells someone they can.

[graham4anything]

8. whenever anyone calls him that, it is usually condescending smear(like when Maureen Dowd does it)

the correct title of respect is PRESIDENT Obama or President Barack Obama or Mr. President.

Also, it depends with other people on their own bumper stickers, buttons, etc.
For reasons of I'm a regular guy, both W and JEB made their initials as their name to connoate the lies that they are nice decent regular guys.

Once Hillary (who used Hillary on her buttons) becomes President 4 years from two days ago,
then it should be President Clinton, or Madam President Clinton.
Saying Hillary is not a smear.

But I have never ever seen Barry used on any button, and I have my Elect Barack Obama President from 2004! YES, 2004!

However, I am tired of smear words that are actually good words
Chicago is indeed my kinda town and I do not consider anyone saying Chicago as a smear, so I will turn that to a good word, as I do community organizer, whiich is a good word.

But I have never heard anyone say Barry as a compliment
it would be like calling President Jimmy Carter "Jimbo", as some Jimmy's out there like as a nickname.
Who would do that but a hater of President Carter to use it for him?

So, yes, Barry=smear.

[Bucky]

23. How DARE you call him Jimmy. His name is James.

How DARE you call him Big Dog. His name is William.

Look, I don't defend the use of Barry. But attacking noobs for using it is silly and unwelcoming. You have to judge each case by the post it comes in. Being doctrinaire about a natural impulse to feel closer to our Democratic (and more importantly, our democratic) leader is counterproductive.

If someone says Barry online, a polite reminder of how that's a veiled insult is appropriate. Not everyone understands that veil. Having seen a newbie attacked today for a fairly innocuous use of Barry, I think we as an online community should be more concerned with policing our own intolerance and less concerned with the motives of a very small number of hostile posters.

[graham4anything]

32. President Carter called himself Jimmy when inaugurated.

so many newbees lately were rightwing sendovers anyhow
(not saying anyone specific, but in general,(not always), when someone comes out immediately using that term, you know where they came from)

[quinnox]

9. President Obama is customary, or even better,

"Our exalted and majestic President"
"The President and most high Obama"
"Our infallible Leader"
"President Obama, also known as the supreme leader of the world"

All of these are acceptable and proper. Anything else is being disrespectful and not suitably reverent.

[MadHound]

10. Oh for pete's sake, he is a president, not a king or emperor.

Let's see, how did we refer to Bush? Oh, yeah, that's right. So face it, referring to Obama by his first name or self admitted nickname is mild in comparison.

[onenote]

24. Barack is fine. Barry is not his "self admitted" nickname

Its a childhood nickname that he abandoned decades ago and even asked his family to stop using when he was in college.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

12. Do we use the same name all the time, or only while we're diverting our eyes?

For crying out loud people... This is politician, not a deity/emperor.

[Paladin]

15. No. And An Additional "Fuck You" To Maureen Dowd For Recently Doing So. (nt)

[Sheldon Cooper]

16. Wow, this is bizarre.

Are we required to genuflect as we say his name? The President is not God. It's okay to call him Barack, or Obama, or Barack Obama, or President Obama, etc.

Having said that, it is NOT cool to call him Barry - that's a dog whistle used only by wing nuts to express scorn for the president.

[Bucky]

25. No, no "only" used by wing nuts.

You're projecting. Some people make that mistake honestly. Assuming everything that bothers you is a hidden insult is a Red-Scary way to live one's life.

[Sheldon Cooper]

50. Gotta disagree, Bucky.

I'm not calling for the formation of a new HUAC, if that's what your 'Red-Scary' comment is supposed to refer to. But anyone who has followed Obama at all knows that he hasn't referred to himself as "Barry" for probably 25 years. The wingnuts, however, have had quite a bit of fun referring to him by that name for five years or more, trying to paint him as a fraud, and I really question the motive behind someone on this message board calling him "Barry". Sorry if you don't like that.

[ananda]

18. Is it OK to refer to Secretary Clinton as HIllary?

..

[Bucky]

19. Some politicians invite familiarity. Barack is such a formal sounding name. I get the impulse.

We don't insist on William Clinton. If I posted about James Carter, I don't know if half of DU would even get who I'm referring to.

I know some RW wackjobs call the president "Barry" as an intentional disrespect. I don't use that familiarity out of sensitivity to this issue. But if a poster on DU says Barry as a way of implying an intimacy, as a way of saying "finally, a president I can respect" and a guy who gets me... I don't knee jerk assume that poster is a freeper troll trying to rile me up. That would be an act of egomania and slapping that poster down for a breech of local etiquette stinks of McCarthyism.

DU is a narrow little tunnel in the world. I can't fault someone for not getting our subculture just right off the bat. I loathe it when DUers go on little witch hunts because some noob doesn't say things just the right way for us. That's just so damnably unliberal.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

21. I usually call a president by their last name when speaking. When writing, I use President a lot. nt

[Art_from_Ark]

26. I've only referred to a President by his last name since Nixon,

although Republican presidents were often referred to with sobriquets, such as "Tricky Dickie", "Ray-gun", and "the Occupant"

[Enrique]

29. yes, and here are some other things that are OK

it is ok to call Bush "Shrub", it is ok to call the elder Bush "Poppy", it is ok to call Laura Bush "Pickles", it is ok to call Condoleezza Rice "Condi", it is ok to call Rumsfeld "Rummy"

Those are affectionate names. It is also ok to call politicians insulting names, up to a point. An example of non-ok names are racist and sexist ones.

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. Barry is not a King or Emperor or High Holy Man, people...I can call him Barry

(or that other thing I call him) if I damn well please!!!!!! Harrrummmph!!!! Fucking skipped the line, Barry!!! Fucking phony line-skipping fucking BARRY!!! I'll be damned before I call that ungrateful line-skipping fucking Barry the President or anything, ungrateful little shit that he is!!!



Some people can't help themselves, you know? Needless to say, they always couch their transparent pathologies as virtues ("I don't genuflect to kings; I'm a free thinker, blah blah blah&quot . It's part of their sickness.

[datasuspect]

31. in a country with a first amendment that ensures free speech.

yes.

is it polite? no.

but it is legal to do so.

but to answer your question, we'd have to know what you mean by "ok."

[zonkers]

33. "Barry" is okay only if the pizza guy is at the door and you need change for a tip.

[MADem]

34. "Barry" is the name the wingnuts used in a mocking and derisive manner.

People who object to the use of the name are sensitive to the mocking and derision that the meanspirited wingnuts engaged in four years back.

Barack is fine, Bar is fine....but "Barry" has a VERY specific history and meaning, and since Obama rose to national prominence, the name he abandoned when he reached young adulthood has been used as a very pointed insult.

That's the problem--it's not about "respect" or kowtowing, it's about a dog-whistle term that the right wing used to goad and bait.

[Enrique]

43. Barry is not a dog-whistle

we call them names, they call us names. It's dumb but that's all.

[MADem]

46. Yeah, it is. It's all part of the "He's not American" meme.

He's a Kenyan Indonesian who tried to "pass" by using the name Barry....when we KNOW he has the same name as Saddam HUSSEIN!!!! He's not "one of US" (whosoever "us" might be)...

Of course it's a dog whistle. It's a great big honking one. You'd have to be willfully obtuse to not see that.

[Paladin]

57. Get Real. It Most Certainly IS A Dog Whistle, And An Obvious One, At That. (nt)

[99Forever]

35. Maybe if...

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 12:40 PM - Edit history (1)

... things as insignificant as this can easily to you, it's time to reassess your hair trigger.

[cherish44]

36. Well it's the internet...rules and etiquette be damned!

Really, there's some sick, sick stuff on here (aside: what happened to the puke smiley? That's the one I wanted to use!)

[DinahMoeHum]

40. If you greet him in person, you say "Mr. President" or "Mr. Obama"

NEVER his first name - unless you are an intimate friend of his.

[quinnox]

41. meh, I bet that is not the case

I bet people scream out "Barack!" all the time when he is in crowds and shaking hands. Jeez, folks, it is a sign of being friendly, not some deadly insult.

[Orangepeel]

42. Not to his face

Or in any formal or official capacity. But if I'm talking about him informally (like to friends or on a friendly discussion board), I might refer to Barack, Michelle, Bill or Hillary.

*shrug*

[Enrique]

44. also, it's ok to call Bill Clinton "Klintoon"

it's incredibly dumb, but it's ok.

[Generic Other]

48. The right to call the president names

Is called freedom of speech. I wish we all had a penny for every time someone called the shrub a name on DU. We'd all have many coins jingling in our pockets.

[quinnox]

49. yup

I have to think there are more important things to think about too and concentrate on, do some of these folks who seem outraged, are they always in a perpetual state of outrage when they see all the insulting names the the president is called on the internet?
That would get very exhausting indeed.

[Auntie Bush]

51. We all call the President by his last name. Think Bush, Raygun, Clinton are commonly used.

It's OK for us when discussing them... but wouldn't be if talking to them personally.
Only trolls call him Barry...as a sign of disrespect. When talking to the President he should be referred to as Mr. President.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. "Congress shall make no law..abridging the freedom of speech.." Even when it concerns politicians.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

55. No one is restricting anyone's free speech.

I was asking asking if it showed disrespect to refer to the President by his first name.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Disrespect? In what sense?

I mean, it might have been considered disrespectful to call Richard the Lion Heart Dickie the Wuss but Barry? Or, Barack?

I think this debate belongs on the "Big Deal" shelf.

I'm often in disagreement with Obama's policies but I doubt he is such a delicate flower that he's going to be injured by being called his first name or any other names. If he is, he should seek another line of work.

[Arkana]

53. No, but we can call him by his wrestling alter ego.

B-Rock "The Islamic Shock" Hussein Superallah Obama.

[Iggo]

59. I wish that was my name!!!!!

That name is Bad.Ass.

[bigwillq]

56. I will call my president what I want to call him

But thanks for your concern!

WORD POLICE SUCK

[fishwax]

58. It depends on what you mean by "OK" -- but "barry" is almost always used derisively/dismissively

as a way of registering disrespect.

[pnwmom]

65. On second reference, the NYTimes calls him "Mr. Obama." Sounds okay to me. n/t

[Rex]

66. His friends that grew up with him and called him Barry

I can see. No one else should and imo you should address the POTUS as, 'Mr. President' and NOT mention his name.

I hope to (very soon one day) hear, 'Mrs. President or Madam President' at least before my time is up on this earth.

[Fearless]

68. Why don't you ask him yourself.

[NYC Liberal]

69. Hmm...I think Barack is fine, but "Obama" just sounds more natural because that's how he's known

to the public (unlike someone like Hillary or Rudy).

I usually use "Barack" when I'm differentiating between him and Michelle (ex "Malia looks just like Barack and Sasha looks like Michelle).

And I don't think there's anything inherently WRONG with "Barry", but it's usually used to demean him so it has that connotation.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

70. Barry is commonly used as a pejorative when referring to the president.

Barack isn't, and I don't really have a problem with it. I suppose it would depend on the context though.

Barry was commonly used as a pejorative here during the Great Primary Wars of '08. It still is used as such on RW boards. I have zero tolerance for it when I see it being used here. It's disrespectful if for no other reason than because it's common use it to imply disrespect.

I didn't vote, because I wasn't sure of an option, just so you know.

[TeamPooka]

71. IMHO - Barack Obama, President Obama or Mr. Obama.

but I think Obama is appropriate to be used on Twitter and shorter format communications like texting between people's phones.