General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCops in schools are a bad, bad idea
In my early adolescence, I attended a reasonably tough junior high school in New York City. There was an armed cop or a guard, I forget which, at the school.
One day, a kid with issues somehow snagged the gun and much fun ensued. Fortunately the boy was talked out of shooting his science teacher.
Cops or guards with guns in schools will be mighty bored. Bad things will happen.
This is why I call guns "shit multipliers". Add a gun to any bad shit - bad kids, angry or suicidal people, whatever - and you just multiply the shit. Let's keep shit multipliers out of schools.
Blecht
(3,803 posts)The solution to gun problems is not more guns, no matter who is holding them.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)He was friendly, he didn't talk down to us, and for a lot of kids he was the first positive experience they had with the police.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)They generally don't attract problems.
Can they help?
Nay
(12,051 posts)police force. That's the problem -- in the instances where cops were assigned/available, they were pretty useless. IIRC, the Columbine officers were off-campus at lunch.
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)They are cops and when they see stuff going on they have to act. What would have been a couple of high school kids being dumb now turns into a felony if the cop see's it. They are talking about putting cops in schools here and it has already escalated to having the video cameras in the schools fed directly to the police station so they can monitor things.
Not good.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Police are, from time to time, relieved of their weapons by someone intent on doing harm in places outside of schools. If "cop = source of gun for bad actor" is true than any cop anywhere with a gun is a liability.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I suspect that in most cases, guns are more likely to hurt than help.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)In Italy the guns the Polizia carry have a lanyard attached to the person.
Can't figure out why they don't do that here.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)already have cops on the premises, but as others have noted it's no guarantee against a shooter.
rightsideout
(978 posts)My daughter went through 4 years of high school with a Resource Officer at the school. The school is the largest one in the county with over 3000 students. 42 school buses. Not a single issue. As a matter of fact one of the school's art students airbrushed the school's mascot on the hood of the Resource Officer's city patrol car. So there is a relationship between the police and the school. It's not like having an armed sentry yelling at kids and frisking them as they walk through the doors everyday.
My son presently goes to a different high school in the county. Same thing. No issues that I have heard of. I watched the officers one day just to get an idea. They are pretty laid back but professional and they get to know the students.
I'm OK with a cop being assigned to the school. But not OK with arming janitors and teachers.
Cosmocat
(14,563 posts)having "armed guards" and the gun in a safe for a designated teacher are putrid ideas.
But, if you have a properly trained Resource Officer with the right personality, and a district that is able to use this resources effectively, it is a positive.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)reminds me of a saying
if shit were steel, ________ would be a magnet
ProSense
(116,464 posts)a cop inside every school, but I don't have a problem with police patrols and other security measures.
Benjy Sarlin
President Obama suggested on Wednesday that the government provide grant money to hire police in schools, prompting cries of hypocrisy on the right after a proposal by the National Rifle Association to hire armed guards to protect children was met with widespread ridicule. But Obamas plan has more in common with a program enacted by President Bill Clinton and eliminated by President Bush.
According to the White House, Obama plans on using this years COPS program to provide incentives for more police departments to hire school resource officers in addition to a new, comprehensive school safety initiative to help local school districts hire up to 1,000 school resource officers and school-based mental health professionals, as well as make other investments in school safety.
The COPS program was created by the 1994 crime bill, a law signed by Clinton and sponsored by then-Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) with the goal of hiring 100,000 police officers nationwide. Other provisions in the anti-crime package included the Violence Against Women Act and the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, both of which have since lapsed over Democratic objections.
After a wave of school shootings in the late 1990s, Clinton signed a bill funding grants to hire specially trained community officers in schools. The bill was authored by by then-Rep. James Maloney (D-CT), whose district includes Newtown today, and was aimed at least in part at preventing mass shootings. At a press conference in 1998, Clinton argued for passage of Maloneys proposal by telling the story of a school officer in Richmond, Va., who was hired by the existing COPS program and apprehended a 14-year old shooter after the teenager wounded two students.
- more -
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/obama-clinton-cops-schools.php
After Columbine Shooting, NRA Supported Gun Free School Zones It Now Opposes
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/16/1456051/after-columbine-shooting-nra-embraced-gun-safety-measures-it-now-opposes/
There is room to craft a sane policy.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They're more of a hybrid between a cop and a therapist. They are also trained to defuse situations instead of slap on handcuffs.
The NRA want typical "beat" cops in schools - or even "better", private security guards. That wouldn't help - it already failed in places like Columbine. The idea behind the "resource officer" is to try and intervene before the law is broken instead of punish after the law is broken.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)This was probably back in 1997 or 1998, when my son was in junior high. His graphing calculator was stolen; bummer, we had to buy him a new one for the special math program he was in, which required it. And they were expensive back then, around $100. Not even a month later, as he was walking up the stairs between classes, someone behind him unzipped his backpack and stole the new one. Okay, we couldn't keep doing this over and over. Was there really a market for stolen graphing calculators or was it just harassment? Who knew.
My son at first claimed not to know who had done it, but I could tell he did. We had a meeting with the school counselor, and he wouldn't give a name, but finally the resource officer had a talk with him that convinced him it was okay to give a description, and why. I made it clear that we would not press any charges. The officer knew this kid from the description immediately and was able to get him to admit he'd taken it. It was retrieved from the kid's locker, and the officer gave the kid a long, good talking to. It was better than punishment or expulsion. Everyone came out better for it.
I don't know if this officer was armed or not, but it was a pretty tough school so he may have been. But he knew the kids, he was helpful and proactive, and it helped the teachers and counselors a lot, I believe.
That's very different than having armed "security guards." These resource officers are trained in forming relationships with students, in dealing with problems, in forming bonds.
EC
(12,287 posts)of normal that we want to accept?
REP
(21,691 posts)I got away. I also got him fired.
He had been fired previously for harassing girls at the Jr High.
This was in the early 1980s.
I'm not a fan of the idea.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)If there is a school shooter, having trustworthy armed persons already at the school when the shooting starts is bad. Using the phone and calling for trustworthy armed persons to show up (& then waiting for them to arrive) and save everyone is good.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It is unacceptable that our culture has gone so insane that we have to have armed guards in the schools, this is not necessary in any other industrialized democracy.
And here on a supposedly liberal discussion forum people are cheering the idea.
Jesus wept.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Clinton approved measures and funds to increase armed security presence in schools. If theres even one life that can be saved, then weve got an obligation to try.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)The "if it will save even one life" meme. If we have armed checkpoints, ID checks, pullover people for no reason and search them, come by and search your house once a week, spy on the population...I could go on and on....it will be worth it if it saves JUST ONE life. That is not how our country is set up. I hate it when people do that and it was a good speech but that should have been left out.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)to political fanatics, to feuding neighbors -- and ditto what MannyGoldstein says.
And perfectly sane, wonderful people can become jealous or a little tipsy or enraged by what they perceive to be injustice or thoughtless neighbors.
Guns are a big problem. They have legitimate uses but are all too often used for emotional release. Not good.
lib2DaBone
(8,124 posts)They would have you committed for being stark raving mad... out of your mind.
Forward 2013... public says..."Meh".....
What have we turned into as a society? Is this what 911 and the Neocons have done to us?
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I also remember sitins and walkouts in school in the late 60s early70s. I wonder how that would have worked out with police in the schools back in the day. I would have told you you were crazy back then if you had said to me that this is where we would be in the future.
Flyboy_451
(230 posts)Just an honest question. If all measures intended to prevent an active shooter occurrence fail, and the bullets start flying at another school, what immediate action do you recommend to end the event and save lives?
In my personal experience with this type of event, the surest way to bring it to a rapid halt is with counteracting force. If there is no means of reacting with force, the only option is to lock the doors, hide and wait for someone with the ability to project force to arrive.
JW
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)No other industrialized democracy is considering stationing armed guards in school.
What solution have they managed to implement that has made armed school guards unnecessary?