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Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:12 PM

USA Social Mobility = Get higher education = In debt forever

For Newly Minted M.B.A.s, a Smaller Paycheck Awaits

Like many students, Steve Vonderweidt hoped that a master's degree in business administration would open doors to a new job with a higher paycheck.

Soaring tuition costs, a weak labor market and a glut of recent graduates are upending the notion that M.B.A.s and other professional degrees are a sure ticket to financial success. WSJ's Ruth Simon reports on the News Hub. Photo: AP Images.

But now, about eight months after receiving his M.B.A. from the University of Louisville, Mr. Vonderweidt, 36 years old, hasn't been able to find a job in the private sector, and continues to work as an administrator at a social-service agency that helps Louisville residents obtain food stamps, health care and other assistance. He is saddled with about $75,000 in student-loan debt—much of it from graduate school.

"It was a really great program," says Mr. Vonderweidt. "But the job part has been atrocious."

Soaring tuition costs, a weak labor market and a glut of recent graduates such as Mr. Vonderweidt are upending the notion that professional degrees like M.B.A.s are a sure ticket to financial success.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324296604578175764143141622.html?mod=e2tw

24 replies, 2688 views

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Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply USA Social Mobility = Get higher education = In debt forever (Original post)
MindMover Jan 2013 OP
TheMightyFavog Jan 2013 #1
Fumesucker Jan 2013 #23
exboyfil Jan 2013 #2
Downwinder Jan 2013 #3
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #4
exboyfil Jan 2013 #5
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #6
MindMover Jan 2013 #7
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #8
MindMover Jan 2013 #10
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #11
MindMover Jan 2013 #12
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #15
MindMover Jan 2013 #16
uponit7771 Jan 2013 #9
MindMover Jan 2013 #13
gollygee Jan 2013 #14
Ken Burch Jan 2013 #17
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #18
MindMover Jan 2013 #19
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #20
MindMover Jan 2013 #21
JoePhilly Jan 2013 #22
MindMover Jan 2013 #24

Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:16 PM

1. Shakespeare had it wrong. Lawyers are not the root of all evil.

MBAs are.

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Response to TheMightyFavog (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:02 PM

23. Cross an MBA with the Godfather baby, make you an offer that you can't afford n/t

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:16 PM

2. Everybody is getting an MBA

It has done nothing for my career. I still enjoyed the process though (company paid for it as well as my 60 hours of engineering graduate credit).

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:22 PM

3. Found that it is real easy to move down.

Certain advantages to being judgment proof. Incarceration becomes a standard of living improvement.

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:30 PM

4. Meh! We have three kids with degrees from college. Only one is carrying any debt.

 

And he is the one who CHOSE to go out of state for his schooling.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:55 PM

5. Your kids did a nice job

but at $22K/yr. for four years it is difficult to get out without any debt unless you have parents to help. If you live close enough to a college to do your first two years at home that helps, but many do not (for example you can't usually get your 2nd year of engineering in at a local community college, but our state does over many sophomore and a few junior level engineering courses online (still don't have lab courses though).

My older daughter (a High School Junior) is using PSEO like crazy. She completed her first semester of engineering over last summer and the fall (I paid for most of the courses at $4K - it would not have been possible to do this by using the district options). This semester she will complete her second semester of engineering with the school paying for Physics I, Calculus II, and Engineering Analysis. Next year they will pay for Physics II, Statics, Differential Equations, Thermodynamics, Dynamics, and Mechanics of Materials (most of the 2nd year of engineering). The hope is that she will only have two years of college left after she graduates from high school.

Check out PSEO and online classes. It makes for a powerful combination especially if your child is willing to take some classes over the summer to leverage the PSEO options (which usually can only be exploited in the senior year of high school). My daughter skipped Precalculus in 11th grade (she had a great Algebra/Trig class as a 10th grader) and took Calculus I in first semester as a junior and got an A. She took Chemisty over the summer at a local university (very expensive).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #5)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:08 AM

6. Most state legislatures and boards of higher education are interested in reducing costs.

 

Your daughter is benefitting from that. If she continues on that track successfully, she will have at least one full year of college credit.

She is cutting a path toward a fantastic job when she graduates. Debt? Maybe, but certainly not a lifetime of debt.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:45 AM

7. Not all students are in their twenties ...

You live with a myopic worldview consistent with your beliefs ....

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Response to MindMover (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:09 AM

8. Well, let's examine your concise reply, insults and all:

 

1. Not all students are in their twenties. If you are referring specifically to the post to which you responded, my comments were to exboyfil. The young woman in question is a junior is high school and in all likelihood is a teenager. The gentleman in your opening post was 36. So, you are correct in both cases. However, my comments had absolutely nothing to do with a student's age. Nothing. If your disagreement goes beyond the simple fact that not every student is in their twenties, you will need to elaborate.

2. I spent the last thirty years of my professional life in higher education. I know a helluva lot about the subject.

Care to expand on your comments? I'm all ears.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 03:56 PM

10. If the truth hurts then let it be so ...

Last edited Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:32 PM - Edit history (1)

1. Amortization

2. We students have been sold the idea that a higher education in the USA leads to more and better employment opportunities, which is being proven to be just propaganda by higher education and those whose interests surround the financial subjogation of an entire generation. All the while tuition and fees have risen to levels higher than inflation rates and greedy educators and bankers splitting up the spoils of these heinous promises. Hence your professional life has been riddled with cognitive dissonance the likes of Judas Iscariot.

And your ears must be ringing....

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinion/bennett-student-debt/index.html

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Response to MindMover (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 04:53 PM

11. Who, exactly, is forcing people to go to college?

 

Forcing loans down the throats of the unwilling? Withholding information about the job market?

Sounds like somebody is bitter about making some real bad choices.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 05:28 PM

12. Avoidance of the truth is a telltale sign of cognitive dissonance ...

As you well know, in a society based on capitalistic ideals which promote individualism and all its idealistic goals, that the force feeding of these ideas from kindergarten on has created a monster the world has yet to deal with. ie: climate change due to runaway resource grabbing from industrialized capitalistic societies.

As for your assumption, I am content with my doctorate and know that my choices have been wise.

I unlike you, have reasoned that my abilities to be honest with myself and others go beyond how much I have in my bank account.

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Response to MindMover (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:48 PM

15. Bitter, bitter, bitter.

 

You know absolutely nothing about me but attempt to insult me over and again based on your assumptions of who and what I am.

I will leave you to your assumptions. Enjoy.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #15)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:08 PM

16. You are a classic example of attack with nothing substantial ... or strawman

You will not because you cannot defend your position ...

Enjoy your cognitive dissonance ...

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:13 AM

9. One school in Texas is 40k usd a year, another is 2,500usd a year. The shame is my kids wont have a

...huge choice outside of scholarships

The 2,500usd school a year is ranked very high in the tech field nationally

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:29 PM

13. I would advise looking into other methods of learning ... online, and others

the old school brick and mortar is going the way of the dinosaur ...

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 07:32 PM

14. I really think "in debt forever" is the 1%'s plan for everyone

They're using us the way Bain uses corporations. They get us to take out as much debt as possible, which all goes to them in one way or another, and then we end up in bankruptcy.

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:11 PM

17. and in debt forever=forever required to be loyal to the system.

 

(Until, of course, all those in debt realize they could bring the system down by joining TOGETHER to defy the debt and the obligation.).

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Response to MindMover (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:15 PM

18. If you measure the value of a degree based on the Salary you get in the first 8 months.

You might be ensuring that no degree could ever be worth the money.

As one who was lower middle class in the 80s, took loans, and obtained 2 advanced degrees, those first 8 months tell you NOTHING about the long term value of those degrees.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:21 PM

19. Your timing was perfect to take advantage of the end stages of this system ...

Almost 2 generations stands between you and the new student graduating today ...

And that means 2 worlds ago ....

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Response to MindMover (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:28 PM

20. Actually ... no.

At the time I took my loans, the US economy was in bad shape.

And Reagan had just removed the tax break on Student Interest.

And ... the future was far from certain.

You claim my timing was "perfect" ... you get to make that claim only because the value of my degrees is NOW apparent. At the time, I was taking a HUGE risk ... I was borrowing money against NO ASSETS other than, well, me.

I was part of a group of guys in Philly at the time, about 14 of us ... 3 of us found a path to college. Those three are are far better off financially than any of the others.

But back then ... none of us could be sure of what our lives would be like in 10, 20, 30 years. Now, I know.

On edit ... let me explain further ... most of the others have physical labor jobs. As they approach 50, they are finding it harder and harder to maintain.

And so again ... the OP wants people to base a lifetime on 8 months. Its nonsense.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:50 PM

21. To be fair, the OP does not want anyone to base a lifetime ..

on 8 months ... I agree that is nonsensical ... I believe you took some editorial liberties in your summation of the article ......

I am absolutely, positively sure that I can come up with at least a half dozen examples today, of why a prospective student should not feel certain about his future ... but I will not belabor that point ...

And you made my point that you are more successful now due to not a small part because of your educational endeavors ... and of course, a growing expanding economy in need of people educated as you were ...

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Response to MindMover (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 08:57 PM

22. The OP's title: "USA Social Mobility = Get higher education = In debt forever"

I think my reading of THAT title is accurate. If you get loans for higher eduction, expect to be in debt FOREVER.

What part of that is not clear?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 13, 2013, 09:53 PM

24. "And so again ... the OP wants people to base a lifetime on 8 months. Its nonsense."

My response was based on your statement above, which was taken from the article, not the title ... I will not engage in strawman

However since you brought it up, I will prove to you and anyone else reading this that it is debt for a lifetime or forever in my book ...

If you take thirty six year old Steve's $75,000 school debt and amortize this debt over 30 years you get a monthly payment of $462.00 ... which I would argue that he will not be able to afford this monthly payment in the current employment environment ... so his payment will be less than the $462.00 which will increase his term length to the end of his life ...

My point is that Steve has a lifetime debt load on his future income ... unless of course he finds a rich aunt or uncle ...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinion/bennett-student-debt/index.html

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