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Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:21 AM

A different idea about military service:

I'm all for a self-made military.

Think about that for a second.

It's how much of the revolutionary, and civil war, was fought.

That would slash the budget super fast, and get rid of everybody who isn't paying for their own way when playing soldier. If you're willing to pay a few thousand a year (or more) to wear a uniform, great, but lets stop wasting this money on people who aren't ever in combat, or even needed for anything other than "training".

Want to pay for your portion of time on an aircraft carrier? Cool! It's like a timeshare!

Want to buy in to a tank? Great! There's only a few of you who need to spend a few hundred thousand dollars!

Want to be at a nuke silo, and have a few billion dollars to pay for it? Great!

Heck, if you want to be "supply clerk in Alaska", and are willing to pay the US government for your room and board, I'm sure we can accommodate you!

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply A different idea about military service: (Original post)
boppers Jan 2012 OP
Saving Hawaii Jan 2012 #1
sarge43 Jan 2012 #12
boppers Jan 2012 #19
TheWraith Jan 2012 #32
Hugabear Jan 2012 #27
LineReply .
denbot Jan 2012 #2
Muskypundit Jan 2012 #3
JSnuffy Jan 2012 #13
Guy Montag Jan 2012 #4
boppers Jan 2012 #20
Guy Montag Jan 2012 #30
Zalatix Jan 2012 #5
boppers Jan 2012 #21
white_wolf Jan 2012 #6
oneshooter Jan 2012 #14
boppers Jan 2012 #22
TheWraith Jan 2012 #33
boppers Jan 2012 #34
Ecumenist Jan 2012 #7
boppers Jan 2012 #18
Arctic Dave Jan 2012 #8
Ecumenist Jan 2012 #10
Lasher Jan 2012 #11
Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #17
Arctic Dave Jan 2012 #31
jmowreader Jan 2012 #9
hack89 Jan 2012 #16
hack89 Jan 2012 #15
boppers Jan 2012 #23
Zalatix Jan 2012 #24
hack89 Jan 2012 #28
gratuitous Jan 2012 #25
rustydog Jan 2012 #26
Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2012 #29

Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:25 AM

1. Why do austerity measures always need to target poor kids trying to do the right thing?

Go join the military for a couple years and tell me you were getting paid big bucks to "play soldier".

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Response to Saving Hawaii (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 05:51 AM

12. Thank you

Targeting the powerless

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Response to Saving Hawaii (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:53 PM

19. Why should I get paid at all?

I thought this was a volunteer force?

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Response to boppers (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 04:56 PM

32. Why should anyone be paid to be police, then?

That's volunteer, right? They should be paying the public for the right! And firemen, too. And heck, any kind of job that isn't back-breaking labor, you should pay for the privilege!

I mean, it's not like the military has historically (i.e. 1975 to 2000) offered a relatively easy way for poor young people from economically depressed communities to trade a couple years of service for the chance to go to college, get a degree, and succeed instead of being locked into the socio-economic background they were born in.

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Response to Saving Hawaii (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:26 PM

27. Should we expand the military to provide more employment opportunities?

Don't necessarily agree with the OP's premise, although I do wholeheartedly support slashing the size of our military. The only reason our military is its current size is to support the American Empire overseas - why else do we need to keep troops stationed in dozens of countries around the world.


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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:39 AM

2. .

[IMG][/IMG]

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Response to denbot (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:58 AM

3. +1

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Response to denbot (Reply #2)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 06:40 AM

13. +1

 

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:04 AM

4. The most worthless military are the contractors that often replace the regular military

of our country. They are arrogant, unaccountable for the horrible things they do, and enthusiastically do the wrong things that predominantly spoil the relationship between their employers and the country subjected to their arrogant selves.

It's bad enough to suffer the damage young, ill trained troops who don't come into the military with much of an ethical foundation do when they screw up like they did at the Abu Ghraib torture scandal for example.

But just look at how the newly empowered Iraqi officials are harassing the long disposed contractors they still need to train their military.

They hate needing them, and would love to shoot many of them and dump their bodies in the ocean when they are done at their jobs.

It seems to me -- and yes I was in the military several years myself -- we would have the worst sort of military that in the end would cost us dearly were we to take your idea seriously and try to implement it.

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Response to Guy Montag (Reply #4)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:55 PM

20. You mean, if our military was based on a paid force?

Rather than a volunteer force?

Don't we already have that right now, a military force who is *paid*, be they soldier or contractor?

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Response to boppers (Reply #20)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 04:33 PM

30. The regular military are accountable under rules of war

and international law many corporate contractors thumb their noses at. Also regular military personnel can be prosecuted under the auspices of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the UCMJ.

The Iraqis remember the bloodbath of 19 innocent Iraqis slaughtered by trigger happy Halliburton mercenaries. There were many other instances of wrongful death that contractors, immune from Iraqi law got away with. many contractors carried cash with them should they need to lube up a quick getaway with some fast cash disbursements.

Even our regular military had the bad habit of carrying 'drop' weapons to use to alibi wrongfully killed, innocent Iraqis. This was was illegal and dirty in so many ways, it stagers the imagination the more one knows about it.

I am glad I didn't go to it. I was lucky, I was going to stay in for a twenty year retirement, but I wised up just before the first Gulf war and ETSed away from the mess the NeoCons have made of things.

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:04 AM

5. Go back to ancient times when only the rich knew how to fight and bear arms?

 

[img][/img]

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:57 PM

21. Knowledge? No...

Though, I am quite amused that to make your point, you used a non-rich pirate character, a person who bore arms out of choice, for personal gain, rather than for a state's wealth.

Plus Johnny Depp rocks.

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:09 AM

6. Sounds like how the Libertarians would fund an army.

I'm all for reducing our military presence around the world. I think we should close all foreign bases, with a few possible exceptions. We should end all of our wars. We should return our military to the way and size it was pre-WWII. The Cold War is over, we no longer need an the kind of army we have.

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Response to white_wolf (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:38 AM

14. Underfunded, ill equiped, poorly led, and lacking in training?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #14)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:59 PM

22. How many times were we invaded pre-WWII?

How many wars did we fight, and win, while being "Underfunded, ill equiped, poorly led, and lacking in training"?

We don't need to be a modern Sparta, pumping massive amounts of wealth and effort into a war machine.

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Response to boppers (Reply #22)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 05:27 PM

33. Pre-WW2, we had a regular army just like today.

You've apparently been reading the wrong history books.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 01:08 AM

34. Uh, no the funding wasn't *anywhere* near as huge.

Nor were the constant weapons contracts, bases everywhere, etc.



First spike is WWI, second spike is WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:28 AM

7. Um, who could afford to be a member of the military if they had to pay their own way?

And Why?

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Response to Ecumenist (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:51 PM

18. Those who actually had something to lose.

If you're worried about, say, another country having control of your house, or shooting at your family...

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:38 AM

8. Better yet, if you support any type of military aggression you must join the military

 

and serve until the end of aggressions.

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:55 AM

10. You know, I've always felt that if you want to declare war, FINE...

Pack your bags and get ready to lead the charge...ON THE FRONT LINE...not in some cozy, secure place in some green zone somewhere.

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Response to Ecumenist (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 03:52 AM

11. But it works just the opposite of that.

Other people's sons and daughters are sent into war by those who did not serve.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

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Response to Arctic Dave (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:59 AM

17. That's exactly the same fallacy as "if you don't want to invade Iraq, go and live there". N.T.

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #17)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 04:55 PM

31. No, it is the logic of if you feel that strongly about

 

something you will get involved. Leaving people alone and not killing them is nothing like what you are saying.

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 02:47 AM

9. I have a better idea

Require all 18-year-olds to affiliate with a political party. (Trust me on this: in many parts of our great land, there are people who just can't wait to enroll in the Republican Party.)

Anyone who joins a conservative party, a right-wing party or the Tea Party will immediately be conscripted into the military for five years. And they can't be promoted above the rank of corporal.

Democrats can enlist in the military but they don't have to.

This will do one of two things: it will fill the military with patriotic young conservatives, or it'll cause the GOP to die out in one generation.

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Response to jmowreader (Reply #9)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:51 AM

16. What historically happens when militaries no longer reflect society?

when the goals and desires of the military diverge from the public's then very bad things happen - look at Pakistan or Egypt for some good examples.

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 09:48 AM

15. So very rich people can raise their own armies?

hire the bodies, pay the government - that's all you need?

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Response to hack89 (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:06 PM

23. They already do.

The super-rich can even buy their own governments, with armies attached....

However, I guess I'm proposing a US government without a costly, constant, paid, standing army....

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"

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Response to boppers (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:11 PM

24. A majority of soldiers now are poor people.

 

If the Plutocracy decides to seriously put down a popular revolt easily HALF the military will split off. Mainly to protect their own families.

Your plan will have it so that only the rich serve in the military. That SERIOUSLY concentrates access to top level firepower into their hands.

Sorry, but I file that under... "Do not want".

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Response to boppers (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:39 PM

28. Well, the 2nd Admendment does provide a good foundation

I like the idea of a modern part time militia with modern weapons dispersed throughout the community. Decentralized power is a good thing

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:14 PM

25. Hrrrh, hrrrh, hrrrh

This posts amuses me, but not nearly as much as the huffery in response to it. Hrrrh, hrrrh, hrrrh. Nice one.

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:14 PM

26. We already do your "nuke a silo" joke


We go to war at multinationals bidding. Why did the grand poobah of Baghdad sign over the oil rights to oil companies as his first duty when we took Iraq and enjoyed "Mission Accomplished?" To free the Iraqi people? Really?

seriously,

Mandatory military service for every single American citizen. 3 or 4 years. If you want to reinlist after your initial service ends, good for you. If you want to apply to OCS, go for it. Or if you want to go to school, you get to pick any state college in the nation on us! You took the time to "preserve our freedoms" you should also reap a reward as thanks.
When you apply for jobs, if you are qualified and served, you should get veterans preference.
You should never have to worry about healthcare again anywhere in this country.period.

If you are an immigrant and you serve in our military (quite unlike many GOP and Dem offspring) you are automatically granted citizenship. (criminal behavior, desertion, dishonorable discharge would of course nulllify that)

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Response to boppers (Original post)

Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:45 PM

29. They paid me the princely sum of $79 a month when I joined up.

 

And, 4 years of misery later, I was making a whopping $165 per month.

But, I like your idea.

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