General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI did the right thing today for home protection, I purchased a
Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)
12 gauge pump shotgun to protect me and mine. There is a storm coming, and I want to be ready. These psycho gun nuts who think it's necessary to own a high powered rifle that shoots 500 yards for home protection scare me.
If you find it necessary to shoot at someone who just busted into your home, and you miss, a bullet from a AK could end up in your neighbors head down the street.
There is no need for assault weapons to be available to the general public, absolutely none.
Ban them now!!
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)n/t
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I've got no problem with a shotgun for home defense. Probably the best choice you could make.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)or the place to discuss the legal and quite sane use of a gun. I have a revolver, though, for personal defense....I live alone in a big city and have had several close calls in my home. And yes, I know how to shoot it, although I'm no expert.
I also have dogs and a deadbolt (deadbolts aren't very helpful), but one of my dogs seems to scare people when she ferociously barks at them at the picture window. I think they think she's a pit bull because of her coloring and her chest is muscular, but she's not.....she has little short legs (which can't be seen from the picture window), and is a mix of Jack Russell Terrier and either a lab or shepherd. She's medium sized. But people sure do back off when she goes to the picture window and barks.
Dogs are excellent intruder repellants. As are outside lights. I also have security system signs on every side of the house. Ah, life in the big city.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I changed my post a bit to talk less about the shotgun.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)and that can be a real problem indoors
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The lights should be out and the police furnished with night vision equipment.
Anybody moving around after dark would be real obvious to them.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Outdoor lighting may be needed in business districts or high crime areas. Lighting in semi-rural and lower density residential areas is mostly counterproductive.
Roadside infrared cameras with licenseplate readers should also be deployed.
galileoreloaded
(2,571 posts)Response to FarCenter (Reply #58)
Mojorabbit This message was self-deleted by its author.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)before light was installed in back of garage
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)As for police, I know firsthand that the police cannot get to an urgent situation quickly enough. You have to be prepared to act on your own. I will keep my lights, and my dogs, and my locked doors.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Semi auto handguns are far and away the best choice.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)intruder.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The rule of thumb for cylinder bore guns is that the shot will spread at an average of one inch per yard. At your 30 feet (10 yards) the pattern will be an average of about 10 or 12 inches in diameter.
" target="_blank"> shows the pattern with 00 buckshot at 3 yards and 7 yards from an 18inch cylinder barrel. #9 will be maybe 10-15% more, however patterning the particular gun is the only way to really know how it will perform.
The reality is that pattern is little more the bore diameter at close in household ranges. It is effectively a 74 caliber rifle with a low speed pre-fragmented round.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)You do know what a choke is, you being edymercated and everything?
Nicely prejudiced selection of fact.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The picture (which is an internet find) was a cylinder barrel with 00 buckshot. Birdshot would spread faster but not that much at household ranges. It could get no better than a cylinder (in terms of pattern spread) which was the Bluestate10 was saying was much wider.
Not sure what you consider prejudiced facts...
intaglio
(8,170 posts)That is selective prejudice, especially as they are attempting to find a less lethal method of defense. At the ranges found in a property a shotgun gives plenty of defense without the necessity to purchase a mass murderers weapon.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)the intruder, made by Bluestate10 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022025170#post54). That is not really true. At household ranges the groups are still quite tight, even with the most expansive barrel options
Shotguns are from from less lethal unless you go to rubber balls or something similar. A single 3" 00 buck shell has the equivalent of 9 38 Special bullets and at household ranges, just a lethal
There is no evidence in the subthread that Bluestate10 was the interested in finding a less lethal means of self defense. In other parts of the thread DollarBillHines was talking about follow up shots (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022025170#post47)
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)...at inside the house distances. You are very poorly informed about what guns will and won't do. A person hit in the torso with a shotgun at close range has a very poor chance of survival. If you use buckshot it is like shooting him nine times with a .38, all at once. If you use bird shot you turn part of his body and organs into hamburger.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Infection and sepsis will almost always follow.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Mel Content
(123 posts)just the distinctive sound of a round being "pumped" into the chamber is enough to send most sensible intruders packing. quickly.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I agree the sound can be effective, but when you make yourself known, if the weapon is not in Condition 0 (loaded/cocked/safety off) with your finger on the trigger, you are making a serious mistake.
bamacrat
(3,867 posts)it neutralizes the situation quickly. If they are standing infront of you without an obstacle, then you are right. Too late to chamber a round to intimidate.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Depending on the state of the intruder and the kind of door it may not matter.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)after you fire the weapon, the next bullet is chambered and the gun is cocked. In a panic or high stress situation you could easily fire the gun a second time by mistake, or drop it and have the gun go off.
When at the range, the proper way to fire a semi auto is to continue to shoot until the weapon is empty, anything else is not considered safe.
I stand by my initial choice, a pump shotgun is best for home defense, there is much less of a chance of gun firing accidentally.
Plus, as a side note, you can mount a flashlight on a shotgun.
Response to crazyjoe (Reply #131)
Post removed
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)WVMountaineers
(4 posts)and I don't expect anyone to get up after the first 3 but, then I don't expect to miss with the first 3....i know that's not a reasonable expectation
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I have seen people who you thought would not have that problem do it and later get exonerated.
There is also an expectation by some that someone with training will shoot better and only shoot to wound.
While the Mozambique drill is the best way to insure the intruder will no longer be a threat, using it will get you questioned harder by the cops.
Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #170)
Post removed
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I think there is a pharmacist who learned that recently
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)"There is also an expectation by some that someone with training will shoot better and only shoot to wound."
Who is "some"?
All the training I've ever had (I've attended several weapon training programs over the years) has been you aim at center mass.
If you are going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you have to have expectation that the person is going to be killed, otherwise put the gun down and grab a golf club or a bat.
Hangingon
(3,071 posts)You are taught to shoot to end the threat. No warning shots. Shoot to center of body mass.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)That there are stupid people with miss set expectations is a reality. Sometimes they make into law enforcement and juries.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)But questions, stupid ones to be sure, still get asked.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Who is "some"?
Cops, prosecutors, some juries. If you have a CCW, and are involved in a shooting, the question will come up, espcially in the more repressive areas of the US. Its irrational, it sucks, but it does happen.
All the training I've ever had (I've attended several weapon training programs over the years) has been you aim at center mass.
That is what I teach too
If you are going to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, you have to have expectation that the person is going to be killed, otherwise put the gun down and grab a golf club or a bat.
Never point your muzzle at that which you are unable to destroy
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)and tactical shooters.
I have seen more shotguns dropped than handguns, especially those with pistol grip only stocks.
People should use what they feel comfortable with. If a shotgun works for you, then use it
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)If you can get behind your bed, cover the door and wait, while calling 911 on the cell, then a shotgun is the best. And that is the best tactic.
If you have to search the house (Bad idea, but maybe you have to.) then a handgun is better.
If you live in the country with the nearest neighbor a couple of miles away and need to see what is happening outside, (Very bad idea. You are safe in the house, but maybe you have to check it out.) then an AK type would be a good choice.
Flashlights can be mounted on handguns, along with lasers, in the same unit. You would be amazed at how bright they are. At inside the house distances they will cause an intruder to involuntarily blink his eyes.
Quality guns of modern design (1928 and later) won't go off when dropped.
WVMountaineers
(4 posts)is good for home defense.
All have their shortcomings and their advantages but, if you're just going to sit at the top of the stairs and not playing John Rambo, a shotgun is probably the best choice in a close quarters defense position.
A handgun is certainly more versatile in home defense but you really have to practice with it
cbrer
(1,831 posts)Shotgun useless in hostage situation. Depending on ammo it can go through walls too.
Weapons choice requires wisdom, thought, practice, and discretion. At a minimum.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)For shotguns, slugs would be the ammo of choice in a hostage situation. They can be accurate out to 100 yards in some cases. Easily accurate enough for in-house distances.
Bake
(21,977 posts)to put the fear of God into a home intruder! Plus, you don't have to be terribly accurate. Just get close and let the scatter do the rest.
I know plenty of SANE folks who keep one by their beds.
Bake
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I wanted to put it in my homemade security alarm that I plan on building. If someone tries to open my door while the (currently in planning) alarm is active, that is what they would hear, along with a sound file of another guy saying, "Hang on, Butch. I have the AK-47." (or something similar to make the would be intruder think twice)
I have debated on whether to use Butch as the name or Bruiser. Butch is a common name where I live, while Bruiser is an uncommon nickname. The sound of a shotgun being pumped, I have already decided, would be the best sound file to use though.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)The shot column spread out about one inch for every yard. So at 21 feet (7 yards) it will cover a seven inch diameter circle. Have that gun pointed just a little bit to one side and you will miss completely.
Bake
(21,977 posts)But even if you miss, the intruder has sh*t his pants!
Bake
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)AlecBGreen
(3,874 posts)a dog IMO is the best deterrent, especially a beast like mine dont tell anyone but shes a total softy. you are far more likely to be slobbered on than bit!
renie408
(9,854 posts)And two little dogs.
We are dog nuts. Somehow that seems so much better than being a gun nut.
brucefan
(1,549 posts)is very appropriate.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)In my case, I did it to challenge the decision of the admins to let gun talk out into the other boards.
I changed my mind and self deleted but am still being stalked and bothered.
You might want to repost in Outdoor Life or just delete this. A lot of members don't want to read this.
And if you don't, then I hope the membership is less, well, I hope you don't become the victim of too much tolerance, as it were.
....
..
RegieRocker
(4,226 posts)else from these children.
SomethingFishy
(4,876 posts)and you call others children... Yeah that makes you a real man.
RegieRocker
(4,226 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)a gun in their home for protection, they should be able to. I just think a shotgun is best because the projectiles don't travel as far and there is much less chance of doing damage beyond what your aiming at.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If they are psycho gun nuts, doesn't that just make you a run of the mill gun nut?
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)to send the potential assailant running away.
People should probably have it as a ringtone.
Rack the guns often, do you?
ecstatic
(32,641 posts)Wouldn't that send them running too?
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)And advertises to anyone savvy enough to recognize the sound that you don't keep the weapon loaded.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)And keeping a shell chambered is just stupid.
Robb
(39,665 posts)guardian
(2,282 posts)Kaleva
(36,238 posts)DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)If you can put them on the ground, the next shot really counts.
Care Acutely
(1,370 posts)God help the hapless Alzheimer's sufferer or innocent kid who wanders into your Rambo warrior delusion.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)An Alzheimer's patient won't be able to break in. The door will keep him out. If a teen breaks into a house, he has just become an adult. The resident is not required to risk his life to find out the age and intentions of an intruder. The mere fact of an intruder is enough to place the resident in deadly peril and he may defend himself with deadly force.
If they stay outside the door, call 911 and let the cops handle it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)It would also rarely is ever be reported or tracked.
Kaleva
(36,238 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)My home is secure. My home is quiet. I am armed.
If you get in my house and I become alert to your presense, this is what you will hear. In order.
The chambering of a shotgun.
The phone, on speaker, of me telling 911 that there is someone in my home.
That is all happening on the other side of that bedroom door.
My bedroom is pitch black, there is a nightlight in the hall opposite of my bedroom door. You know exactly where I am, and I have no desire to shoot you, and will most likely be telling the 911 operator that.
If you decide to open that door that is not going to end well.
Robb
(39,665 posts)What part of "my home is secure", and "I have no desire to shoot anyone" makes it sound like I can't wait.
I know alot of people think that if someone intends to do you harm you should just roll over and take it ...
I am not one of those people. I will do everything in my power to make it so that confrontation does not happen, if it does happen it will be because that INTRUDER pushes it to that point.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)I will be ready to defend myself if someone breaks into my home. You know what else??
I am ready for a hurricane, I have a generator, MREs, canned food and water ...
I am ready for injury in my home, I have a full first aid kit, know where the hospital is, have the phone number of friends/family memorized ...
I am ready for all sorts of things, it is generally considered being an adult. When we go camping/hunting/fishing I am known as "Mr. Prepared", someone forgets something, don't worry I got one you can use. I got that from my father, who was always one of the most well prepared people in all circumstances.
If you choose to be one of the people who is not prepared for events than you will be one of the people who is a victim if those events happen.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)but I choose, as you do, to be prepared for the worst. I have no desire to harm anyone, but it's my responsibility to protect my wife and children, at least until the police arrive, and nothing is going to stop me from doing that.
I think just having the gun will be enough to get someone to turn tail and run, but if not I am prepared to do whatever I have to to protect myself and my family.
A shotgun is the safest way for me to do that without jeopardizing my neighbors or anyone who might be in the area. IMHO
Kaleva
(36,238 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)We may have a problem with coyotes in my Chicago suburb if the temp drops enough for it to be snow instead of rain.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Damn, the ones here in New York stay away from my free range hens if i just yell at them!
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Not as bad during the summer months, which happened to me twice, but if there's six inches of snow on the ground and it's tougher for the coyote to find food, I don't want him getting any idea that I am unable to counteract.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Seriously dude, call your County Health Department - there's something wrong with that beast (unless of course you are carrying a dead rabbit)
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)where I walk my dogs. I carried a shillelagh a few times until I realized i'd been crossing paths with the critters all summer and only saw them once!
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)of my chicken yard. Currently it's a toss up between paint balls and an air horn.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Give me coyotes, any time.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Coyotes and snakes are just bonuses
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)I live in Seattle and had one trot through my yard two weeks ago. They seem to like the green belts and golf courses.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)For 3 days I went outside and jumped on the deck. I check every few days now with the same procedure and no coyotes running into the woods anymore. Snow will be helpful with showing tracks.
Didn't think about convincing the neighbor to get chickens.... Coyote did eat one neighbor cat, so not that neighbor. Hhhmmmm.
2naSalit
(86,307 posts)is to urinate around it, preferably as soon as you notice it to give the mom time to find another location. Seriously, they recognize that type of "marking". Also you can just go mark the edges of "your" territory once in a while, it works for more than just coyotes... bears, lions... Works where I live. Select a tree (not right near the house!) about every fifty to a hundred feet along your perimeter (mark at about one to two feet off the ground) and you'll see a difference more often than not. Totally organic and naturally workable. May sound gross to some but a natural remedy sure beats any other.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)not to mention opossums, skunks, squirrels, ducks, geese, tons of various bird species, chipmunks, moles, groundhogs, and other various small mammals.
In the morning when it's dark out it's prime hunting time for the coyotes.
They were here before me, I don't try to do anything to break their routine. The two encounters this past summer ended with the coyote running away, I think I scared his prey off.
You just never know when one will contract rabies, though...
oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Back in Calif where I lived coyotes were considered dangerous and a problem to be reported to local animal control. Here in Texas I am on a fairly rural property but still within the city limits. We had coyotes (and rattlesnakes and copperheads) in my back yard and I was worried about my cat. I called the local city animal control people and told them. They basically said so what? They have lived here longer than you have. Unless a predator kills pets or livestock, they don't get involved, even in the city limits.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)of a shell being chambered for an intruder to leave the premise through closed sliding glass doors.
Robb
(39,665 posts)Whovian
(2,866 posts)assure the the burglar a good target to make it a more challenging shootout like in the movies.
You may get killed because of the nickel plating, but damn, it looks so cool!
Reality check. In over 60 years I have never had to shoot anyone in my home or apartment in either rural or metro areas in which I have lived and know no one that has. Movies and TV shows are drama, not reality but are all based on unusual occurrences or pure fiction.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)shooting at intruders dumbass, I've never been in a situation where I've had to pull out the gun, but I think it might be a good idea to, ya know, give a warning of some kind.
like, "I've got a gun, you best get the f**k out of here!"
That will probably give my position away as well, the yelling and swearing and stuff.
You've been exposed as a knucklehead who doesn't know what he's talking about. Have a nice day dummy.
Whovian
(2,866 posts)What other forums do you enjoy?
Did you know the Name Crazy Joe is how they refer to Joe Biden over at FR?
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)but don't let that stop you from accusing me of being a troll because I made you look like a fool.
I know it must sting a bit, try not to let it bother you too much.
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)LOL!
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Hell, why not wear a miner's lamp?
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)Ohio Joe
(21,726 posts)You are the problem. You should not be allowed to own a gun of any kind.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)You've been seduced by fear & RW propaganda. It is the WRONG thing to do.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)I respect your opinion, but not the opinions of some here who just choose to call me names and attack me. This place can get ridiculous sometimes.
BeyondGeography
(39,339 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Its a a well done cartoon screed
baldguy
(36,649 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)More guns = higher homicide rates
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
More guns = higher suicide rates
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2007-releases/press04102007.html
Gun Accidents Kill 500 Kids a Year
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php
Guns in homes can increase risk of death and firearm-related violence
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100204/Guns-in-homes-can-increase-risk-of-death-and-firearm-related-violence.aspx
People who keep a gun in their home are almost twice as likely to die in a gun-related homicide.
Women living in a home where there is a gun are almost three times more likely to die in a gun-related homicide than men similarly situated.
The risk of killing oneself using a gun was almost 17 times greater for persons who live in a home where there is a gun, compared to those in homes without guns.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/26/1077930/-Statistics-Guns-and-Wishful-Thinking
Individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.
Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45.
Guns do not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The probability of successful defensive gun uses is low for civilian gun users in urban areas.
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/04/carry-a-gun-you-get-shot-more/
The numbers in the cartoon are well-documented & well-known. Only in the Bizarro World of the RW fascist gun culture are they denied.
OneMoreDemocrat
(913 posts)Or perhaps one asking members to fill in the blank.
Darn, I was going to say 'Dildo'.
allrevvedup
(408 posts)I've read that the best deterrents are houselights and street visibility. Of course, security bars are also helpful but they're a much bigger investment.
to Joe: you did the worst thing imaginable. chances are that gun will cause more grief than ten housebreaks could begin to. My advice is to dig a hole out back and bury it. Chalk it up to another impulse purchase inspired by Murder Inc. Don't think they're not flogging this for all it's worth.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Pervert!
You're right, of course. Exterior lighting, low shrubs, and deadbolt locks are good enough for just about anybody who doesn't live in a high crime neighborhood. And don't forget a dog. When not scaring off intruders, a dog provides much better companionship than a shotgun.
allrevvedup
(408 posts)but there are lower-tech solutions available.
Dogs: good for companionship but hard on neighbors, meter readers, passers by and the like, unless they don't bark, in which case, better the lights. Also they can be awfully lazy if nobody's around, even uber-obnoxious ones. I've known a few house dogs to sleep quietly through burglaries and I often see neighbors' barking terrors ignoring the world when the gravy train is away.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I was reading a Guns and Ammo discussion board, and people are talking about literally sleeping with their firearm holstered and on their person at night. Not just in or on the nightstand.
There's an accident looking for a place to happen.
allrevvedup
(408 posts)complete with motion detector. Free shipping too. How much was the gun, anyway?
Lampsplus link:http://www.lampsplus.com/products/motion-sensor-14-and-three-quarter-inch-high-brushed-nickel-outdoor-light__34248.html
Tons more: http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s_carriage/category_outdoor-lighting/
They're a little cheaper at Lowe's, even less at Home Depot if you want total crap. I'd go with Lowe's.
re. sleeping with the gun: well at least that's a useful purpose. Totally worthless as home security however. Think about it, if you get to the point where you'd actually need a gun, you're already screwed. So might as well sleep with it, or even better, bury it.
oops, wrong finish, fixed it. . .
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)k2qb3
(374 posts)First off, that evil assault shotgun of yours is capable of shooting 30 projectiles AT THE SAME TIME!!!!
Second, the whole point of evil fragmenting and/or hollowpoint bullets is that they don't over-penetrate, buckshot carries FAR more energy through an interior wall than does .223/5.56, which fragments in drywall at close range.
A nickel HD weapon has disadvantages.
A handgun leaves you a free hand to hold a light, which is kind of important for target identification, I'll leave the discussion on the wisdom of weapon-mounted lights to people who care.
Anyway, congrats on being armed, keep it secure and consider No2 shot.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)would be less a chance of hitting a neighbor sleeping in his bed up the street. I have heard of folks getting hit by stray bullets but not so much stray buckshot.
I don't pretend to know everything about it, it just made sense to me I guess. handguns may be a better option but I don't like the fact that unless I got a revolver, the semi auto will reload itself and cock itself after the first shot, in a high stress situation you could fire a second shot accidentally.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If you live in an apartment, its something to think about. If you live in a neighborhood, I wouldn't worry. I would argue the reason you hear of people getting hit by stray buckshot less is because shotguns are not used as much, not because they penetrate less. Either way, a rifle, buckshot, or pistol will penetrate 4 walls (drywall). None of the above would be a threat to go through brick and into your neighbors house.
I think having the shotgun is nice, but training is more important, so make sure you go to the shooting range a few times a year so you are familiar with it.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)But in order to leave the home, at least my home, the buckshot would also need to penitrate 7/8" of hard pine sheathing (100 year old house) and several inches of red cedar shingles.
From within the home, I will know where my family is hiding, or at the very least, I know they will be laying on the floor.
Response to crazyjoe (Reply #144)
Toronto This message was self-deleted by its author.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Congrats....
The Link
(757 posts)You might not hit your neighbors, but you will probably hit your kids.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)I load 00 because our bedroom is in the rear of the house and anyone between our bedroom and the front door is in serious trouble.
The Link
(757 posts)People like you are the reason guns kill way more family members of gun owners than intruders.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)At what distance? A 6" shot is sorta out of the question.
7 1/2 doesn't get thru 1/2" of dove. Must be pretty shitty drywall. Who the hell uses 1/2" drywall, anyway? Our house is 3/4" flame resistant.
For those who haven't been in bad situations...
In home, you never take a shot without understanding the situation. It's your house, you have the drop.
That is one factor why our bedroom is at the back of the house.
Guns kill family members because they shoot their own, either accidentally or on crazy. Unfortunately, a lot of gun owners have no business being around firearms - they are just either stupid or inept.
I am not a gun nut, I totally support the action to ban assault rifles and I think that there should be a rigorous background check and waiting period on all firearm sales. If those scurvy arms purveyors at those fucking shows had to ship those guns, the game would change.
I despise what we have become. The US culture is sick, through and through.
We are our own enemy.
If I knew how, I would be praying for those Newtown Families.
If I can remember to do so, I would like to send you a PM of something that happened to me.
DBH
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)That is range dependent at 3 feet it will and then some, at 30 yards not so much. Small shot loses energy must faster than bullets. I've taken a fair amount of chuckar with 7 1/2.
Most fire resistant drywall is 5/8s and only used where required in residential construction. Industry standard in the US for interior use is 1/2"
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The old-fashioned actual 2" thick kind, not what you get at Home Depot these days.
Also shot a couple of skunks as they were leaving the hen house bloated with eggs. At 20 to 25 feet, they literally explode.
AlecBGreen
(3,874 posts)"Uh, hey baby? Ya know those skunks thats been raiding the hen house? Well, would you mind cleaning them up? Thanks"
A .22 might be a better choice next time
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)AlecBGreen
(3,874 posts)I did not know that. Thanks for the tip!
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)It will go right though drywall and interior doors just fine,
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Go to 'Full' at home.
Do you have any experience with real firearms?
I hate private ownership of assault weapons.
I fully accept background checks (no limit) and a waiting period (this would kill those bastards who do the shows).
But I am not about to give up my firearms. Each and every one of them was selected to insure me and mine.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Even then the spread is minimal at household ranges, 3-4 inches at best. Bluestate10 greatly over states the spread in post #54.
I am a combat vet and a firearms instructor. Also competed in trap and skeet for a while.
If you prefer a shotgun, that is up to you. Use what you feel most comfortable with. The best answer for most people is a modern (read semiautomatic) handgun.
My thoughts on additional measures are here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008389
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)back to the gungeon I'm sick and tied of reading these in GD and they are purposely taking advantage of it to rub our faces in their sick gun fantasies
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I'm a gun owner and these guy creep me out.
llmart
(15,530 posts)This is what I hate about the "new" DU.
In fact, this is what drove me away from DU for a couple of years. I'll probably not continue. There are other progressive sites that don't have this in-your-face gun nuttery.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)A typical bullet drop at that range would be more than six feet.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)a long distance and still do damage.
liberalmuse
(18,671 posts)Reading stuff like this. I feel dirty.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)Oops. Sorry. I thought I was in the Lounge.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)Develop a safe plan for controlling access to the gun and a path for getting to it if you need to use it in a pinch.
doc03
(35,292 posts)What model is it?
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)the tag says "Marinecote finish", whatever that means.
It's a Mossberg 500 mariner Pump-Action. 6 shot, 3" chamber. 18 1/2" barrel. came with both a regular stock and a optional pistol grip.
Not expensive, I just wanted something for home protection and they had both black and this one. I traded in my 30/30 I've had for 25 years, and a Rugar P85 which I never liked much anyway. It was heavy and bulky, and I couldn't hit anything with it anyway.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)My thought was I wanted it as short as possible so it would be easier to hide, it's not going to do me any good locked up in a safe if I need it quickly.
I still need to decide how I'm going to store it, and where I can put some shells where I can grab them quickly. It came with a cable lock too, which I haven't tried yet. I won't leave a loaded gun laying around, even with the cable lock, where some kid could find it, even though I have no small children at home, my nieces and nephews do come over to visit.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)When you're home leaving it out leaning against a wall is fine
as long as your nieces and nephews aren't visiting at the time.
The thing you want to make sure doesn't happen is it's stolen in a smash and grab which most burglaries are.
Have you thought of buying a gun safe?
It doesn't have to be that elaborate , I looked at one at Walmart yesterday in the sporting good dept for under $300
Bolt it right to the floor and you have piece of mind when the kids are in the house or when you aren't home.
It's probably an added expense you weren't anticipating but in my humble opinion it's well worth the cost.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)Your name suits you.
VOX
(22,976 posts)With a compass in the stock!
Santa Claus: You'll shoot your eye out, kid.
Your 12-gauge will look beautiful under the tree on Christmas morning, Joe.
politicat
(9,808 posts)A gunsmith who fired the stray bullet that killed a man as he slept in his central Indiana home has been sentenced to 60 days in jail.
John Graf, of Monrovia, apologized during a Morgan County court hearing after pleading guilty to a felony criminal recklessness charge in the March 2009 death of Jason Breisch, 35.
It doesn't take a high-powered rifle.
If you must, will you please load it with bean bags, rubber shot or rock salt?
progressoid
(49,928 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)I bought it, the guy looked at me like I had 2 heads.
I agree with you though, I would think rock salt would stop pretty much anyone. I'll look into it.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)When you pull the trigger to shoot the salt, the other guy will think he is being shot at with buckshot. He will think his life is in danger and will respond accordingly. If you ever shoot someone, it has to be for real or don't shoot at all. Shooting with rock salt is an very strong bluff, but still a bluff. Never bluff with a gun as things can get real ugly if your bluff is called.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)of getting shot with rock salt.
politicat
(9,808 posts)I've got another cousin who uses it specifically for the coyotes. (As apex predators, the coyotes keep the rodent population reasonable, and as canines, the coyotes are smart enough to learn where they shouldn't go after getting stung a couple times.)
Salt requires frequent cleaning, though.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I will probably get a 12g for varmints and scaring off hooligans. I'll have no need for a handgun. I MIGHT need a deer rifle, too.
I feel no need to have enough guns to set up my own personal militia. I guess I'm weird.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)No safer than a assault rifle and harder to use.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)the only other person around. No collateral damage, IOW.
hunter
(38,300 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)However if I lived in a rural environment I might chose to own an assault style rifle for self defense or hog hunting. In all probability I would chose a lever action rifle because they are less expensive.
Assault style rifles such as the AR-15 are used for hunting despite what the media would have you believe. No, you don't hunt deer with a 20, 30, or 100 round magazine as most states have a limit on the size of the magazine that you can have in your weapon while hunting. Also assault style weapons are widely used in competitive shooting.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)I'm so stealing that line!
Iggo
(47,534 posts)AK47%.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)weapons than i did before the purchase!
MineralMan
(146,243 posts)See, I'd like one of those, but can't afford it. Your announcement, though, gives me an idea.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)MineralMan
(146,243 posts)Damn...I don't want any competition.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If that isn't a sign that we need to rethink the ban, I don't know what would be.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)ago and it was not painted over so it must have happened since he's been living there. They are surrounded by gun nuts who are always shooting AR's and SKS's in the bottom of the holler where their neighborhood is.
It had to be a stray bullet because it hit an odd part of the house to be shooting "at" somebody, and at an angle. And my dad isn't the type of person to have "enemies".
Scary shit to know that a random bullet went into the house, an un-noticed at the time it happened.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Nothing like the smell of right wing paranoia in the morning!
Response to crazyjoe (Original post)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)And the fire extinguisher in my garage.
Response to slackmaster (Reply #115)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)That way I'd be using a yellow blanket.
Response to slackmaster (Reply #122)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)then to need a gun and not have it.
sarisataka
(18,470 posts)the ability to 'point, shoot, hit' with a shotgun is an even bigger Hollywood myth than the bullets that throw people backwards.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Thanks for identifying yourself as someone who is completely stupid.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)I'm sure your life won't suck forever, just keep reminding yourself that there is somebody out there for everyone, even you.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Guns!!!
TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)I understand as a "union thug" he is now obligated to throw himself in front of any bullets coming my way. Or so some politician types tell me.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)TheOther95Percent
(1,035 posts)I believe I might be in the top 50%.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Or a mass shooting.
Of course, I live in the state where the Newtown shootings occured. And my hometown is Cheshire, where one of the worst home invasions ever in the US happened. Just look it up, it is too horrible for me to even talk about. It involved a family and rape and being burned to death were part of it.
I don't know, I have no answers on what people should do to make themselves feel "safe". I used to play as a child in that neighborhood where the home invasion happened. It was the mid 80's. I always felt safe. I never felt unsafe when I went to Newtown to hang out with my husband's band mates, who grew up there.
I still don't own a gun. Or really desire one right now. But whatever makes you feel better to be able to sleep at night.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and knows how to handle guns very well thank you, though she is an NRA-hating lefty. She keeps a 12 gauge loaded with birdshot next to her bed. With the safety on. Anyone who breaks into Kate's house is in for one rude motherfking surprise and a trip to the hospital.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)a pump shotgun is probably the best choice. However, a solid door and shiny nickle-plated lock probably would give you more actual security. It will never cause you legal difficulty, and would be a major obstacle to someone getting in your house where you might have to use the shotgun. Furthermore, it will protect your house even when you're not home. Well worth the money, and even if you rent the landlord may be willing to share the cost.
Edit to add: the mere presense of the shotgun may make your house a target to theives who want to steal it. I've never heard of common theives stealing a door and heavy-duty lock.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)He can have both.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Just sayin'.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)In addition to its other benefits, it will cause the intruders to have to make a lot of noise getting in, thereby waking him up. And intruder alarms are fairly cheap and would help.
Anything that might scare the intruder away before he has to shoot is a good idea. Blood makes a really bad mess on the carpet, especially a lot of blood. You have to replace the carpet and that isn't cheap.
Toronto
(183 posts)however, what happens when your teenager sneaks out in the middle of the night, and they do, and returns some time later, but you don`t know it`s your kid coming back into the house. You think it`s an intruder, and your kid probably had a few and doesn`t want you to know, so he or she is sneaking around trying not to attract any attention. Would you have the presence of mind not to shoot first and ask questions later....
I say an easy yes,I have 2 kids grown and gone.
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)by the time I actually fired on a human being, all other options would be exhausted first. I have no desire to live with the guilt of killing someone.
the only thing I desire less is allowing someone in my family to be harmed and I did not do everything in my power to prevent that.
demokatgurrl
(3,931 posts)slampoet
(5,032 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)brooklynite
(94,292 posts)Strong likelihood the burglars will trip over them in the dark...
crazyjoe
(1,191 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)what use is a gun when it is locked in the gun cupboard in the basement? To the intruders 'just a minute while I go downstairs and get my gun'
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)which allow rapid access and security. Be glad to supply you links