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MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:17 PM Dec 2012

Looks like Obama's on the cusp of fulfilling his dream

of cutting Social Security benefits.

10% cuts for 85-year-olds: very impressive!

The wealthy can start sleeping better again, now that they know the Trust fund is starting to funnel into their coffers.

Don't think this is a good idea? Then sign the $&@#ing petition:

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: not cut Social Security and/or Medicare to simply keep taxes low on the wealthiest Americans

Ask your friends and family to sign too. One day, if they're not eating cat food, they'll thank you.

232 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Looks like Obama's on the cusp of fulfilling his dream (Original Post) MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 OP
ben dover and spread em is not a negotiating strategy for most people nt msongs Dec 2012 #1
Obama is a weakling leftstreet Dec 2012 #2
No, you're the one who has managed to "fail". As much as we have all stated repeatedly that... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #14
Here it is from Jay Carney's mouth: cui bono Dec 2012 #172
Newsflash: Jay Carney's not the President.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #212
That really doesn't warrant a response, but... cui bono Dec 2012 #221
That REALLY doesn't warrant a response. Try again. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #224
what about promises like Terra Alta Dec 2012 #98
+1 CheapShotArtist Dec 2012 #180
For almost all those promises kept, there's been another problem created. leveymg Dec 2012 #183
Don't get what you're saying about Syria and Libya brush Dec 2012 #198
Tens of thousands of human lives have no importance to you, other than American boots? leveymg Dec 2012 #202
Still don't get what you're saying brush Dec 2012 #217
Here's the white house phone info if you want to call: mucifer Dec 2012 #3
I have tried to call all day. Got busy signal all day. MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #12
That's because, once again, the MSM has managed to stir the pot and create stuff out of thin air. nt OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #31
Such as? MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #68
If you have to ask then you'll just have to find out on your own. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #120
I just did, watching the President on TV pscot Dec 2012 #154
And the President said what, exactly? Do you have a direct quote.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #211
Because you know, but it's a secret? closeupready Dec 2012 #156
It never hurts to call / write though Scootaloo Dec 2012 #175
+100 HiPointDem Dec 2012 #140
"fulfilling his dream"? darkangel218 Dec 2012 #4
Some folks believe that Obama began aggressively going after Social Security MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #5
Thats crazy, Obama never once said he wants to cut down social security benefits. darkangel218 Dec 2012 #8
For example, check out his Clintonian language on SS MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #15
Link it and quote the offending passage please. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #23
Here you go: cui bono Dec 2012 #166
the person you're responding to Ineeda Dec 2012 #26
I watch what he *does*. I don't care what he *says*. Marr Dec 2012 #37
Even those defending him slip up in the terms they use truedelphi Dec 2012 #87
Political chess is about thinking n-number of moves ahead, not sacrificing "pawns". tridim Dec 2012 #179
Really? Chess is chess, and most people I know truedelphi Dec 2012 #189
When $$$$$ is involved, A=B in USA, Incorporated! $$$$$ 1st, people last. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2012 #102
Those who are 85 femrap Dec 2012 #163
Yeah, it torques me. We voted not to have this happen, but then what was the alternative. I do RKP5637 Dec 2012 #174
Yes, I think about that. Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #200
Does this femrap Dec 2012 #203
Some days I think that's a good solution, "Maybe I need some nog!" I was just RKP5637 Dec 2012 #206
Sometimes I get these femrap Dec 2012 #216
Appointing Bowles and Simpson to lead the most important... JackRiddler Dec 2012 #130
It does beg the question then LanternWaste Dec 2012 #70
Maybe since 2009 PETRUS Dec 2012 #96
THAT was the interview that made my head explode MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #105
2009 seems to be the year Oilwellian Dec 2012 #219
Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process." woo me with science Dec 2012 #111
That quote is in the video I just posted above your post n/t Oilwellian Dec 2012 #220
Only Nixon could go to China. Only Obama can "reform" the New Deal. jsr Dec 2012 #6
You're full of shit, Manny. And that's the truth. MjolnirTime Dec 2012 #7
+10,000!! I personally think he took a left turn when he meant to take a right turn. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #9
Concise and to the point. Summer Hathaway Dec 2012 #20
If Manny was agreeing with what was happenin and praising Obama I'd be surprised otherwise BAU uponit7771 Dec 2012 #24
Time will tell. It does seem odd that S.S. keeps coming up. leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #110
Then why is this the first presidency where SS is on the table? cui bono Dec 2012 #167
Yep! To hell with 'sacred cows' Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #199
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory! Par-TAY!!!! Cat food's on me! MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #10
I know this is a serious subject, but........ ReRe Dec 2012 #53
Thanks... sometimes you gotta laugh because you can't cry all the time. MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #84
Exactly ReRe Dec 2012 #124
what a repulsive post. Whisp Dec 2012 #11
It's not his only dream MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #13
you have no evidence of jack squat shit of anything Whisp Dec 2012 #17
Does this count? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #22
"Terrifically funny", because that's Jay Carney speaking more than a year ago.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #28
Can you remind me of Carney's title again? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #30
You seem to have forgotten a lot of things.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #34
Oh, now I remember: Presidential Spokesperson MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #38
Link it and quote it. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #40
This seems to be an issue with you. blackspade Dec 2012 #162
It’s slash. (Laughter.) And I don’t mean the guitarist. (Laughter.) progressoid Dec 2012 #134
But it is not the type of thing he campaigned on. truedelphi Dec 2012 #91
Haven't you heard? He's a stealth Republican who ran as a Democrat democrattotheend Dec 2012 #55
Because they're impatient. cui bono Dec 2012 #168
What resume? Beacool Dec 2012 #118
now why did I know you'd be salivating at an OP like this. Whisp Dec 2012 #119
Recuperating. Beacool Dec 2012 #121
He out spelunks even the master spelunkers. Whisp Dec 2012 #123
No, he doesn't. Beacool Dec 2012 #127
And two terms in the WH. CakeGrrl Dec 2012 #133
Now, not back then. Beacool Dec 2012 #138
Poor Manny. cliffordu Dec 2012 #16
is it though? fascisthunter Dec 2012 #39
What if the trial balloon originated on the right and the MSM reported it as coming from the left?.. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #43
so what... what bad will come of this? fascisthunter Dec 2012 #46
Whoooooshhh! That's the sound of my post going over your head at 50,000 feet. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #48
that's you avoiding my question fascisthunter Dec 2012 #49
Couldn't answer your question, such that it was, because it completely missed the point of my post.. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #60
why are you avoiding my question? fascisthunter Dec 2012 #62
guess what, it was the white house that leaked the details. what do you say now? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #143
As the Joker says: cliffordu Dec 2012 #47
yeah, but the Joker is fictional... my SS isn't fascisthunter Dec 2012 #50
I disagree. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #56
Funny how we REAL folks grovel for the least fascisthunter Dec 2012 #58
+1 leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #112
How do you suppose the RW got Jay Carney to float this balloon for them? n/t hughee99 Dec 2012 #227
This isn't rumor. The White House leaked this democrattotheend Dec 2012 #57
interesting, thank you for that fascisthunter Dec 2012 #63
My take in reading the article that you are quoting is truedelphi Dec 2012 #88
For two years you've been telling us 22%, Manny... SidDithers Dec 2012 #18
I've been saying that Obama's committee recommended a 22% cut MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #19
"Obama's committee"?? Hmmm. Got a link? Got a direct quote from the President? nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #29
It's public record MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #33
Link it and quote it. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #36
I'm not your servant. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #41
You made the accusation, so you post the link and the exact quote... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #45
Do you know about a site called "Google"? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #52
Do you know the definition of the word "credibility"? Use Google and look it up. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #59
That ship has sailed. nt Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #54
No shit. cliffordu Dec 2012 #71
Boom goes the dynamite cliffordu Dec 2012 #61
manny trollstein is on a roll.. dionysus Dec 2012 #65
I guess that's what secret muslim terrorists do. mzmolly Dec 2012 #21
thats enough of Manny demwing Dec 2012 #25
wow lillypaddle Dec 2012 #27
He asked Santa for that every year when he was a kid wryter2000 Dec 2012 #32
hahaha...lol fascisthunter Dec 2012 #35
I hope universal care for EVERYONE comes with this price tag. nt valerief Dec 2012 #42
Nah... Medicare's probably getting cut too MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #44
I have gotten regular AARP updates, information, pre-written email to "click here", text messages libdem4life Dec 2012 #51
manny, you have an unheathy obsession. dionysus Dec 2012 #64
I think Social Security is pretty important MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #80
you've made bullshit ploclamations for years dionysus Dec 2012 #82
Please point to one. Let's have a look. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #86
go on and show them. you're full of shit. nt dionysus Dec 2012 #94
While I don't think it is going to happen... NCTraveler Dec 2012 #66
Don't worry Manny, it's only a "technical change". neverforget Dec 2012 #67
Thank you for posting that. I was just going to google it to post it. jillan Dec 2012 #73
"tough choices" that conveniently never touch the people making them. Matariki Dec 2012 #85
I think those "tough choices" do impact the lives of those who truedelphi Dec 2012 #92
bankrupt when he left office? cite? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #141
Common knowledge, discussed quite a bit in the press back in the day. truedelphi Dec 2012 #144
that doesn't say he was bankrupt. and 'didn't have any money' to clinton could actually mean HiPointDem Dec 2012 #145
It was discussed in the press. Including the Telegraph, the Washinton Post and other places. The truedelphi Dec 2012 #146
i don't see anything that says he was bankrupt. i'm not debating that he signed those bills, i just HiPointDem Dec 2012 #147
Like Clinton himelf would say - it depends on what your definition of "bankrupt" is. truedelphi Dec 2012 #190
"technical adjustment ... and it is one sought by Republicans." WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #125
Wow. So first Carney says the President didn't propose it, that it was a Republican cui bono Dec 2012 #170
Pretty sweet deal huh? These "technical adjustments" affect people's lives neverforget Dec 2012 #173
Well, at least the president did approve of letting stem cell research go truedelphi Dec 2012 #209
I am getting real tired of this tough choices for everyone shit Angry Dragon Dec 2012 #207
Yeah, Manny. bvar22 Dec 2012 #69
plus 1000 sendero Dec 2012 #89
Thanks for that. You will know them by their WORKS, not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses. In Truth We Trust Dec 2012 #93
... woo me with science Dec 2012 #165
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cui bono Dec 2012 #171
Indeed. Words mean nothing; actions mean everything. This is where Mr Obama sends Nay Dec 2012 #176
Good points. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #193
Now is not the time to point fingers..... Hotler Dec 2012 #72
If it makes any difference DFW Dec 2012 #74
Then why appoint Simpson and Bowles to lead a commission MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #75
Did he say that he WOULDN'T cut SS? Doctor_J Dec 2012 #101
He said he had no intention of cutting it DFW Dec 2012 #142
Did he say ANYTHING about "Raising-the-Cap"? bvar22 Dec 2012 #155
I didn't ask about that DFW Dec 2012 #231
YOU are a fool to believe this...a fool ELI BOY 1950 Dec 2012 #76
I signed the petition. Funny how so many posters who claim President Obama won't forestpath Dec 2012 #77
Well said! nt Chef Eric Dec 2012 #161
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #78
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #95
Whereas you are DU's version of Jim Cramer pitching Bear Stearns? JackRiddler Dec 2012 #129
Touche' bvar22 Dec 2012 #169
I don't think the cheerleaders here are going to believe it a2liberal Dec 2012 #79
Not even then Doctor_J Dec 2012 #103
They will pull out the same old litany of excuses: bvar22 Dec 2012 #178
+1 Liberalynn Dec 2012 #197
And I have every right to call him "Spelunker In Chief" until he realizes.... MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #81
K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #83
Total bullshit! Neon2012 Dec 2012 #90
Actually, no. Google "chained CPI" nt MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #99
Nothing wrong with more contemporary standards. Neon2012 Dec 2012 #107
That is what you said about the Commodity Futures Modernization Act signed by Pres Clinton Agony Dec 2012 #108
Is that what the kids are calling it these days? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #109
Ah so Granny is an "inefficiency" durablend Dec 2012 #196
Yay, Obummer is finally letting his long-stifled cat food-feeding flag fly! CakeGrrl Dec 2012 #97
Obummer? democrattotheend Dec 2012 #115
The answer is "B" CakeGrrl Dec 2012 #132
Obama just sent 30,000 troops back into Iraq.. we are NEVER leaving.. lib2DaBone Dec 2012 #100
30,000 back to Iraq? Do you have a source for that? democrattotheend Dec 2012 #114
Who in the hell folds on a winning hand?! HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #104
That depends on what game he's playing, and against whom. JackRiddler Dec 2012 #185
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #106
Can you be specific as to my lie? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #116
Do you have any comprehension of the reference you make woo me with science Dec 2012 #117
+1 million!!! Pisces Dec 2012 #122
Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process." woo me with science Dec 2012 #113
i yhink you dont understand negociating. veganlush Dec 2012 #126
What a crock! Coyotl Dec 2012 #128
Signed. MrSlayer Dec 2012 #131
We absolutely need a workers' party. kath Dec 2012 #135
Has Axlerod told Obama he WON THE ELECTION? 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #136
Yes, and now he's enacting his Republican agenda Doctor_J Dec 2012 #149
BIngo! n/t truedelphi Dec 2012 #208
the FICA tax cut was a step toward dismantling Social Security....it's being dismantled bit by bit; amborin Dec 2012 #137
Eventually you will come to see Individual Cat Food Savings Accounts as Salvation kenny blankenship Dec 2012 #184
yes, the incrementalism is everywhere and very dangerous and insidious amborin Dec 2012 #191
This message was self-deleted by its author DakotaLady Dec 2012 #139
Kicking for those who missed the Carney/White House statement. (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #148
Signed and shared on Facebook. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #150
When are you going to blame Republicans? treestar Dec 2012 #151
Should Lincoln have fired his losing generals? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #152
Our leaders include the Republican house treestar Dec 2012 #186
Obama needs to fight. And win. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #192
It does not work that way treestar Dec 2012 #223
You are smoking something. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #225
I can't blame a DOG for being a DOG. bvar22 Dec 2012 #157
Well then why don't you blame Republicans treestar Dec 2012 #187
This morning you were ranting that this was not true, calling DU liars... Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #158
The people to blame are Republicans treestar Dec 2012 #188
The president proposed cuts. I will blame both Doctor_J Dec 2012 #214
Not that simple treestar Dec 2012 #222
you're funny MNBrewer Dec 2012 #228
Of course he is doing it to avoid the cliff treestar Dec 2012 #232
Signed and shared Gin Dec 2012 #153
K & R AzDar Dec 2012 #159
Thanks Manny. I'm signer #2,399. nt Chef Eric Dec 2012 #160
Thanks! nt MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #164
Signed it! CanonRay Dec 2012 #177
He's been to the mountaintop. kenny blankenship Dec 2012 #181
Signer 2471. hay rick Dec 2012 #182
K&R! blackspade Dec 2012 #194
I've tried to sign several petitions on this issue WhoIsNumberNone Dec 2012 #195
This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Dec 2012 #201
Actually he recently said he's a Republican Doctor_J Dec 2012 #213
and he's certainly NOT a Socialist. MNBrewer Dec 2012 #229
Austerity Now! Austerity Forever! blkmusclmachine Dec 2012 #204
LOL MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #205
Any other non-vindictive person would have stopped at false prediction number 10. great white snark Dec 2012 #210
Yup! nt Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #215
k&r to sign petition nt steve2470 Dec 2012 #218
What makes you think that "Obama's Dream" is to cut SS? catbyte Dec 2012 #226
Because there are no cuts needed, and yet he has offered to make them Doctor_J Dec 2012 #230

leftstreet

(36,081 posts)
2. Obama is a weakling
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:19 PM
Dec 2012

He had more political capital than any Prez in our lifetimes

Squandered it, blew it, pissed it away

The only campaign promises he's kept:

1) Take Michelle on a date
2) Get his kids a dog

Fail

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
14. No, you're the one who has managed to "fail". As much as we have all stated repeatedly that...
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:40 PM
Dec 2012

...the MSM is NOT our friend and will report anything as fact, you still continue to believe them.

No, you're the one demonstrating weak tendencies. Grow a pair.

Terra Alta

(5,158 posts)
98. what about promises like
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:06 PM
Dec 2012

ending the war in Iraq.. overturning DADT.. passing health care reform.. hunting down bin Laden.. to name a few.

Yes, there's a fail, alright, but it isn't Obama.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
183. For almost all those promises kept, there's been another problem created.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:23 PM
Dec 2012

Such as: getting the US into civil wars and bloody regime change operations in Libya and Syria, no public option or cost containment for most people in the HRC that was passed, an unprecedented campaign to silence national security whistleblowers.

Maybe not a fail, but he gets mixed reviews.

brush

(53,475 posts)
198. Don't get what you're saying about Syria and Libya
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:37 PM
Dec 2012

We all know very well that the President kept us from major, Bush/repug-style involvement in Syria and Libya. If you don't know that, you should. There have been no boots on the ground, no troops getting killed or maimed. That to me shows measured restraint and the wisdom to know that we can't continue to blow our billions by storming into all hot spots in the world with guns blazing and bombs falling. What support that has been offered to those fighting the oppressive regimes has been financial and most likely weapons funneled through a third party ally.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
202. Tens of thousands of human lives have no importance to you, other than American boots?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:05 PM
Dec 2012

"Measured restraint and wisdom" - how humanistic of you to say so.

brush

(53,475 posts)
217. Still don't get what you're saying
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:23 AM
Dec 2012

He kept US troops out, which didn't add more lives to the carnage. What exactly are you saying? There's nothing wrong with a little clarity.

mucifer

(23,374 posts)
3. Here's the white house phone info if you want to call:
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:21 PM
Dec 2012
Write or Call the White House
President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. That begins with taking comments and questions from you, the public, through our website.

Call the President
PHONE NUMBERS
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
TTY/TTD
Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitor's Office: 202-456-2121


I really don't see The President backing down from this. But, it can't hurt to sign the petition and call!

pscot

(21,023 posts)
154. I just did, watching the President on TV
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:00 PM
Dec 2012

It seems like cuts to SS will be his 1st post-election cave. God knows what we can expect, now that he doesn't need to get re-elected. His lips don't seem to be able to form the word NO.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
211. And the President said what, exactly? Do you have a direct quote....
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:10 PM
Dec 2012

...from the President himself?

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
5. Some folks believe that Obama began aggressively going after Social Security
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:23 PM
Dec 2012

Since before his inauguration. Think "appointing Simpson-Bowles", for example.

To be fair, others continue to think he's never wanted to cut SS and still does not.

 

darkangel218

(13,985 posts)
8. Thats crazy, Obama never once said he wants to cut down social security benefits.
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:32 PM
Dec 2012

Those are speculations. I belive in our President that he's going to do the best he can. Screw the haters.

Ineeda

(3,626 posts)
26. the person you're responding to
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:50 PM
Dec 2012

is one of the consistent ones, so you're wasting your breath. He always thinks/believes the worst of this president. BTW, I agree with you.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
37. I watch what he *does*. I don't care what he *says*.
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:56 PM
Dec 2012

Obama is very much part of the business/political establishment class, and their priorities are all the same; take more from the 99% and give more to the 1%. If he didn't believe in that, he never would've been the DLC-approved presidential nominee in the first place.

Words from politicians don't mean jack shit. Only their maneuvering does. And Obama has been maneuvering toward this goal, in synch with the rest of the political class, since he was inaugurated.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
87. Even those defending him slip up in the terms they use
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:40 PM
Dec 2012

Eleventy dimension chess playing, is how they describe him.

Well, chess is, at its most basic, a game in which the pawns are sacrificed for the sake of the nobility.

That's all there is to the game. You sacrifice your smaller pieces correctly, and you save your king and destroy the opponent's.

No need to find the analogy distasteful, as long as you are one of the nobility.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
179. Political chess is about thinking n-number of moves ahead, not sacrificing "pawns".
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:14 PM
Dec 2012

It's shocking that you don't even know what the phrase means.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
189. Really? Chess is chess, and most people I know
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:01 PM
Dec 2012

Who remember who this guy was back when he campaigned in Wisconsin in October of 2008, remember that he had respect for us pawns.

It's one thing to tell those of us who remember what this Party once stood for that we are pissed off because we don't have our ponies or unicorns yet. It's another to tell us that now there is an extra dimension to the definition of chess.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
163. Those who are 85
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
Dec 2012

like my mom are from the 'Quiet Generation.' So they seem like a good target. Gee, hope her electric bill doesn't go up or food prices, or her Medicare premiums, or the price of cat food and litter.

All those years she worked....at times, 3 jobs.

What a liar....and he does it with such ease. What a talent.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
174. Yeah, it torques me. We voted not to have this happen, but then what was the alternative. I do
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:06 PM
Dec 2012

often wonder if we wouldn't have been far better with Hilary.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
203. Does this
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:22 PM
Dec 2012

mean I get to say "I told everyone so." Just kidding. I liked HRC. Obama was just too young and he knows NOTHING about how Wall Street works.

She would never do this to old women. And women will be the ones who will suffer the most.

I never trusted Obama....I voted for him in '08, but that was it...no phone banks, no knocking, no nothing. And he immediately pissed me off with his Cabinet selections.

Then along comes '12....and I just despise RobMe. To me '12 was an Election of Hate...on both sides. I hated RobMe more than I liked Obama...again, I just do not trust him. He's bought and paid for....as they all are.

Now it appears that my only hope is Mother Nature and she will decide to her shoulders and end globalization in its tracks. Pretty damn sad that I'm hoping Mother Nature will hit The Reset Button.

The only light I see at the end of the tunnel is a train headed toward me. Aren't I just a bundle of Holiday festivity tonight? Maybe I need some nog!

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
206. Some days I think that's a good solution, "Maybe I need some nog!" I was just
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:07 PM
Dec 2012

telling someone earlier tonight almost the same, don't expect this to all hang together long term. One of my older friends kept telling me many times she was voting for Obama, but there was something about his sincerity in all he was saying that bothered her. She's passed on now, and I think she was onto something many did not get.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
216. Sometimes I get these
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:08 PM
Dec 2012

weird 'words from the unknown' stated into/from my brain.

And I remember the first time I saw Obama on TV after he had declared he was going to run for President....the words were: "He is not what he appears."





 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
130. Appointing Bowles and Simpson to lead the most important...
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:04 AM
Dec 2012

policy commission of his first term, with a focus on "deficit" rather than "Wall Street," is pretty close to a definitive statement. Their conclusion was predetermined, and he made a big show of saying he'd go with their proposals. That is a statement.

If Bowles replaces Geithner, that will be a hell of a statement.

But it's looking like by then it will just be an exclamation point. I certainly hope your incredibly sanguine view of what's being cooked into this fiscal bump deal turns out to be true.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
70. It does beg the question then
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:41 PM
Dec 2012

It does beg the question then: What was the precise and relevant reason for use of the word dream.

I can perceive it only melodramatic posturing, but I am fairly certain you can dissuade me of this with a valid and objective context of use, or simply by avoiding answering the question also can be convenient...

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
105. THAT was the interview that made my head explode
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:38 PM
Dec 2012

He sounded like Pete Peterson's ventriloquist dummy. Once he appointed Simpson and Bowles, it was clear that this was a catastrophe.

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
219. 2009 seems to be the year
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:14 AM
Dec 2012

It gets interesting starting at 1:19.

"As we've all known for some time, the rules of globalization have changed the game. How we work, how we prosper, how we compete with the rest of the world. And we all know how the coming baby boom retirement will add to the new challenges we face in this new era. Unfortunately, as the world has changed around us, Washington has been remarkably slow to adopt 21st century solutions in a 21st century economy. As so many of us have seen, both sides of the political spectrum have tended to cling to outdated policies, and tired ideologies, instead of coalescing around what actually works. For those on the left, and I include myself in that category, too many of us have been interested in defending programs that were written in 1938, admitting that we need to modernize these programs to fit changing times."


cui bono

(19,926 posts)
167. Then why is this the first presidency where SS is on the table?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:47 PM
Dec 2012

Even GWB got shot down for trying to touch SS. But let a Dem do it and the "loyal" Dems all applaud and just can't believe it's happening even while it actually is happening.

Obama is doing a lot of other stuff that DUers would have been OUTRAGED about but now that Obama is doing it it's just dandy.

Wake up and be consistent in your ideals, don't just blindly follow a Dem because they're on your "team". You may end up finding out you're not playing for the team you thought you were.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
53. I know this is a serious subject, but........
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:10 PM
Dec 2012

..........can I laugh just once? ...that was just too funny Mother Petrie.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
11. what a repulsive post.
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:38 PM
Dec 2012

I am sickened.

but you obviously like to sicken people.

what's wrong with you?

Yes, Obama's Dream all along has been to cut SS. It took him years to build a resume to be able to contest A Clinton for the Presdency. He worked real hard because it was very important for him to cut SS - that was his goal, his one and only true goal and all the other things he has accomplished are only smokescreens he needed to fool the world.

jeeesuz fucking cripes.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
13. It's not his only dream
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:40 PM
Dec 2012

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

And, I have no evidence that he wanted to do this before January 2009.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
28. "Terrifically funny", because that's Jay Carney speaking more than a year ago....
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:50 PM
Dec 2012

....not the President.

Bzzzzztttt!! Try again.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
34. You seem to have forgotten a lot of things....
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:55 PM
Dec 2012

...are you sure you're on the correct board?

Or should I say the "right" board?

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
162. This seems to be an issue with you.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
Dec 2012

You demand quotes and links but refuse to provide them.
Why is that?

progressoid

(49,827 posts)
134. It’s slash. (Laughter.) And I don’t mean the guitarist. (Laughter.)
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:30 AM
Dec 2012

That's fuckin hilarious. I'm sure my parents will think so too when their benefits will only be cut and not slashed. Ha ha ha.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
91. But it is not the type of thing he campaigned on.
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:51 PM
Dec 2012

the YouTubes of Obama adopting a lot of Dennis Kucinich talking points are still up and running. October 2008, various towns and cities in Wisconsin, and he still was able to talk about watching the banking crowd, and insisting on regulations for them, if needed.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
55. Haven't you heard? He's a stealth Republican who ran as a Democrat
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:12 PM
Dec 2012

and tricked us all into supporting him so he could fulfill their dreams of dismantling the social safety net!

It's his greatest dream to screw over poor seniors and give their money to gazillionaires...that's what gets him up in the morning.

:snark:

Except if that were really true, you wonder why these tycoons like the Koch brothers spent millions trying to defeat him.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
168. Because they're impatient.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:50 PM
Dec 2012

It all would have happened so much faster and without pretense if they had a Republican president. Republicans don't have to pretend they're on our side, we know they're not and their base is completely fooled. Our base is only partially fooled, then the ones who aren't fooled get ridiculed by those who are.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
119. now why did I know you'd be salivating at an OP like this.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:13 AM
Dec 2012

how is Massive Headwound Hillary doing?

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
39. is it though?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:57 PM
Dec 2012

or is it alarming folks that they better stay on top of their politicians because this so-called trail balloon is being floated out there. What if nobody responds to that trial balloon? Will the White House see that as the public acquiescing to such a proposal?

To me, this is productive.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
43. What if the trial balloon originated on the right and the MSM reported it as coming from the left?..
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:59 PM
Dec 2012

...nah, that's not possible is it?

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
46. so what... what bad will come of this?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:02 PM
Dec 2012

Are you saying motivation to apply pressure on a politician to get what you want is bad....? Sorry, that makes no sense at all.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
60. Couldn't answer your question, such that it was, because it completely missed the point of my post..
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:17 PM
Dec 2012

...go back and read it s...l...o...w...l...y. It might make more sense to you.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
62. why are you avoiding my question?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:20 PM
Dec 2012

WHAT harm is there????????? I tell the White House not to cave.... what harm is there?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
143. guess what, it was the white house that leaked the details. what do you say now?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:44 AM
Dec 2012

And by leaking details of its plan last night, the White House hoped to upstage Boehner’s Plan B announcement, said a Democratic Senate leadership aide.

“The details of the president’s plan basically one upped Boehner by showing an even bigger move to the middle on entitlements than Boehner has showed on taxes,” the aide said.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/dems-dodge-questions-on-spending-cuts-20121218

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
58. Funny how we REAL folks grovel for the least
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:14 PM
Dec 2012

and those who live comfy lives, tell us to shut up because "it looks and sounds bad". See we should care about the comfies feelings over our own well being.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
57. This isn't rumor. The White House leaked this
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:14 PM
Dec 2012
http://www.nationaljournal.com/dems-dodge-questions-on-spending-cuts-20121218

I still find it curious that the WH would leak it unless they are either really really close to a deal or don't expect Republicans to vote for it.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
88. My take in reading the article that you are quoting is
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:48 PM
Dec 2012

That the cuts (CPI adjustments, swiping some 36 cents out of every four dollars of Social Security) are coming about because "there is a need to bring about revenue that just won't happen." Boehner won't budge on the tax increase to those making above 400K a year -so the Admin is willing to take some more flesh out of the hide of the people who are struggling.

Obama's ACA already swiped some 500 millions of dollars out of the MediCare budget. People here cheered that, as the statement released by the WH emphasized that it would mean "Cuts to the providers" not to the recipients.

But mark my words, when doctors can't afford to take on new MediCare patients, then what? How good is a government program without any damn providers? (Way back in the 1990's, I had a hard time finding doctors taking on new MediCarepatients. And that was almost two decades back.)

I find myself able to relax about life by envisioning an alternate world, one in which someone like Bill Moyers could be President. And he could have Bartlet and Yves Smith help him with the economy, while Giethner would be in jail waiting his court date. .

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
18. For two years you've been telling us 22%, Manny...
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:42 PM
Dec 2012

Why should we believe this prediction is any more accurate than that one?

Sid

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
19. I've been saying that Obama's committee recommended a 22% cut
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:44 PM
Dec 2012

to the average recipients benefits.

Is that not true?

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
33. It's public record
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:54 PM
Dec 2012

Google the letter from the chief actuary of SS's analysis of Simpson-Bowles' recommendations.

OldDem2012

(3,526 posts)
45. You made the accusation, so you post the link and the exact quote...
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:02 PM
Dec 2012

...to back up your assertion. That's the way it works on DU and any other board. Otherwise, you lose credibility....oh, wait....

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
52. Do you know about a site called "Google"?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:10 PM
Dec 2012

You should check into it. Google is one of a number of "search sites".

They can be helpful!

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
51. I have gotten regular AARP updates, information, pre-written email to "click here", text messages
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:09 PM
Dec 2012

with Go To. I always shied away from them politically, but joined anyway and I'm glad I did. It's given me really concrete information and access to friends and family. Just "call your Congressman" or "get out the vote" while important is not that easy for millions and the lines are usually busy anyway...probably just On Hold...and these days, without a PAC and with Diebold, I have to question the actual impact of a vote.

Anyone 50 or older can join and it's a powerful PAC.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
66. While I don't think it is going to happen...
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:26 PM
Dec 2012

I have no problem signing the petition or you voicing your concern here. It is how bs is stopped.

Although we both know it isn't Obamas dream. That is also bs.

neverforget

(9,434 posts)
67. Don't worry Manny, it's only a "technical change".
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:31 PM
Dec 2012
I'll give them my "technical change": remove the ceiling on SSI taxes.

http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/latest-national/39244-white-house-press-briefing-by-jay-carney-december-18-2012.html

Q Yes, Jay, a lot of top Democrats on the Hill, and I think President Obama, spent the campaign season saying, let’s not touch Social Security -- it doesn’t add to the deficit; we can resolve this issue without going to that entitlement program. What is the President’s message to those lawmakers who promised constituents that Social Security would not be touched after the President now has put chain CPI on the table for Republicans?

MR. CARNEY: Well, let’s be clear about one thing: The President didn’t put it on the table. This is something that Republicans want. And it is --

Q But the Republicans --

MR. CARNEY: -- part of his -- if I could please answer Sam’s question, I’d appreciate it. And the President did include it in his counterproposal, his counteroffer, as part of this process, as part of the negotiation process. I would note that this is a technical change -- would be if instated -- to the way that economists calculate inflation, and it would affect every program that has -- that uses the CPI in its calculations. And so it’s not directed at one particular program; it would affect every program that uses CPI. There are also -- as part of the President’s proposals, he would make sure that the most vulnerable were exempted out from this change.

But let’s be clear, this is something that the Republicans have asked for, and as part of an effort to find common ground with the Republicans, the President has agreed to put this in his proposal -- agreed to have this as part of a broad deficit reduction package that includes asking the wealthiest to pay more so that we can achieve the kind of revenue targets that are necessary for a balanced approach to deficit reduction.

Q Right, but there’s a lot -- again, my question was there’s a lot of people who voted for these lawmakers on a promise that --

MR. CARNEY: You heard the President say every time he talked about this --

Q Can I finish my question?

MR. CARNEY: Sure, yes.

Q A lot of people -- I’ll let you answer -- a lot of people voted for these lawmakers for reelection not too long ago on a promise that Social Security wouldn’t be touched, and if it was touched, it would be done separately from these fiscal cliff negotiations. What do those people -- what are these people now supposed to believe about the promises that their lawmakers made, including the President?

MR. CARNEY: Let me again make clear two things. One, the President has always said as part of this process when we’re talking about the spending cuts side of this that it would require tough choices by both sides. And that is certainly the case if you want to reach an agreement.

Secondly, this is a technical adjustment that supporters of it and economists -- outside economists say is meant to make the government’s estimates of inflation more accurate. Thirdly, as part of the President’s proposal, there is a clause that would protect vulnerable communities including the very elderly when it comes to Social Security recipients.

So there’s no question that it represents an effort to compromise, but it is also not -- this is a technical adjustment that economists believe is about getting the proper measure of inflation, and it is one sought by Republicans.


So, again, we’re not going to get everything we want. We knew that the President’s proposal that he put forward to the super committee that we put forward in the beginning of these negotiations would not pass unchanged. But I think your question demonstrates the absolute fact that the President has shown enormous good faith in trying to reach a compromise here. And it would be shocking if Republicans passed up this opportunity for what they say they seek, which is significant deficit reduction, significant spending cuts, simply to protect those just shy of being millionaires from having to pay a dime extra in income taxes.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
92. I think those "tough choices" do impact the lives of those who
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:56 PM
Dec 2012

Make them.

Look at Bill Clinton. He had to decide if he would sign off on the two banking "reform" measures that came to him late in his Presidency. And through signing those measures, the Glass Steagall protections that shielded the middle class from having to worry that our financial institutions would go and create derivatives and CDO's and other exotic instruments that would spell the demise of our society in a mere nine years from the day of his signing. Yet, with one swipe of his pen, Bill Clinton allowed for those "reforms."

And by the time he left office, he was bankrupt. But then, within six months of leaving office, he is making speeches for
$ 150K a pop. In very short time, he and Hillary are worth some 100 million bucks. All for two small signatures, that probably were only discussed on page 34 of the New York Times.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
144. Common knowledge, discussed quite a bit in the press back in the day.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:53 AM
Dec 2012

Lawsuits defending himself cost the couple a lot. (Whitewater, and of course, the Monica scandal that ended up being considered an impeachable offense.)

He himself has commented that he didn't have money till after he left the WH.

One citation out there is here:
http://voices.yahoo.com/bill-hillary-clinton-out-debt-worth-400447.html
Bill and Hillary Clinton Are Out of Debt and Worth Millions
Earnings Derived Mostly from Speeches, Bill and Hillary Clinton Now Own Millions
Kareyth Patrick
Kareyth Patrick, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Jun 16, 2007 "Share your voice on Yahoo! websites. Start Here."


When Bill Clinton left office with Hillary Clinton, together they owed millions of dollars in legal costs accrued fighting scandals that dotted the landscape of their White House years, as the Telegraph reports. With earnings based mostly on speaking engagements for which Bill is abundantly popular, Bill and Hillary Clinton now have a healthy fortune of many millions of dollars.

The Washington Post reports that when Clinton left office, he and Hillary were in debt more than $10 million dollars, though Reuters specifies $5.5 million with $1.5 million in assets. Both Bill and Hillary wrote best selling books to begin to reduce their debt.

####

Article goes on to state that in one year, Bill Clinton made some 10 million from speeches.

At the time the Yahoo article (above) was written there were many other similar citations.








 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
145. that doesn't say he was bankrupt. and 'didn't have any money' to clinton could actually mean
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:03 AM
Dec 2012

he had what most of us would consider a nice upper-middle-class income, benefits, and some moderate invested capital.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
146. It was discussed in the press. Including the Telegraph, the Washinton Post and other places. The
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:13 AM
Dec 2012

Couple owed money for lawsuits, including the lawyers that were paid to assist them in various lawsuits, at the time that they left the WH.

But like so many other government officials, Clinton knew that once he was out of office, the "good deeds" he had done would finally pay off. For instance, back when the bank reform measure was stumbling around in Congress:

- NYTimes.com

Oct.-Nov. 1999 Congress passes Financial Services Modernization Act after 12 attempts in 25 years, Congress finally repeals Glass-Steagall, rewarding financial companies for more than 20 years and $300 million worth of lobbying efforts. As pretty sycophantic article in NYT stated (Citi’s Creator, Sandy Weill, Alone With His Regrets ):

To create Citi, Weill fought to change laws that had prevented banks, insurers and brokerage firms from merging. But in the wake of the economic crisis last year, Congress has introduced laws to reinstate parts of the legislation. In November, Mr. Weill’s former co-C.E.O. at Citi, John Reed, told Bloomberg News that he was sorry for his role in helping to end Glass-Steagall.

When asked about Mr. Reed’s apology, Mr. Weill says: “I don’t agree at all.” Such differences, he says, were “part of our problem.”

Mr. Reed, who lost a battle with Mr. Weill for control of Citi, declined to comment for this article.

<snip>

Mr. Weill personally recruited Robert Rubin to Citi after Mr. Rubin stepped down as Treasury secretary. Mr. Rubin, who has since left Citi and declined to comment about his tenure there, has been criticized as failing to help rein in the bank’s excesses.
<snip>
Analysts say that managerial problems plagued the Citi empire and that its board, which might have imposed some order, became little more than a rubber stamp during the Weill era. “Sandy surrounded himself with yes men,” says Mr. Whalen. “He never wanted anyone second-guessing him.” At the time supporters hailed the change as the long-overdue demise of a Depression-era relic. So on Oct. 21, with the House-Senate conference committee deadlocked after marathon negotiations, the main sticking point is partisan bickering over the bill's effect on the Community Reinvestment Act, which sets rules for lending to poor communities.

Sandy Weill calls President Clinton in the evening to try to break the deadlock after Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, warned Citigroup lobbyist Roger Levy that Weill has to get White House moving on the bill or he would shut down the House-Senate conference. Serious negotiations resume, and a deal is announced at 2:45 a.m. on Oct. 22.

####

Remember, If Bill had wanted to - he could have vetoed the banking "reform" bill. But he didn't want to do that. Possible renumeration, such as the offered speeches with the huge fees, and also his wife's need to be able to raise monies from Wall Street to support her bids for office, were most probably part of his considerations.

And again, Bill himself has stated that the couple had no serious money at their disposable when they left the WH. That quote has been spotted more than a dozen times on various financial blogs.

Also, here is a synopsis of their holdings from CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/index.html

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
147. i don't see anything that says he was bankrupt. i'm not debating that he signed those bills, i just
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 07:18 AM
Dec 2012

want to see something that says he was bankrupt. or uses the word 'bankrupt'.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
190. Like Clinton himelf would say - it depends on what your definition of "bankrupt" is.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:15 PM
Dec 2012

Did the couple actually file for bankruptcy. No. But like a Yahoo news citation mentions, "The Washington Post reports that when Clinton left office, he and Hillary were in debt more than $10 million dollars, though Reuters specifies $5.5 million with $1.5 million in assets. Both Bill and Hillary wrote best selling books to begin to reduce their debt."


Colloquially, the term bankrupt can refer to being without the means to pay bills that are outstanding and are larger than the assets you have on hand. Legally, it means you have entered into a court agreement and a bankruptcy has been filed, with conditions that must be reached, with certain personal assets protected, but other things, like sometimes retirement monies, are dispensed to those to whom the party owes the debt.

The fact is that around the time they left the WH, they had massive amounts of legal debt. Ten million is what Yahoo News citation relates the WaPo piece had stated. The WaPO piece is not found on the internet - often the URL a newspaper holds expires after a certain time.

Perhaps insolvency would be the better word.

Had those law firms or attorneys to whom they owed the monies set up a court date and sued the couple, they would have probably filed for bankruptcy. And of course, even then, the Clintons would not be living in a van down by the river. Most states allow people to keep their residence, their vehicles and personal effects.

If I remember correctly, their friends helped them pay their bills. And/or maybe some of the attorneys involved put the payments on "hold."

In talking about this aspect of their lives, I hold no grudge against them. It was a tremendously disgusting spectacle to watch the Republicans sink so much money into the Whitewater investigation, and then to have the Monica Lewinsky scandal become "impeachable."

One thing I'd like to add - Clinton was approached by the Powers that Be to go and have a nasty and brutal all out war against the people of Iraq. Clinton refused them the war, and six weeks later, the Monica scandal hit the newspapers and TV news outlets.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
170. Wow. So first Carney says the President didn't propose it, that it was a Republican
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 04:56 PM
Dec 2012

request, then later he says Obama included it in his proposal.

SO HE DID, IN FACT, INCLUDE IT, AND IT WAS BECAUSE THE PUGS REQUESTED IT.

Fucker.

They're really using the child's retort "he started it!" as their way of not taking responsibility for this??? That's low. And pathetic.

=======================================================================

MR. CARNEY: Well, let’s be clear about one thing: The President didn’t put it on the table. This is something that Republicans want. And it is --

Q But the Republicans --

MR. CARNEY: -- part of his -- if I could please answer Sam’s question, I’d appreciate it. And the President did include it in his counterproposal, his counteroffer, as part of this process, as part of the negotiation process. I would note that this is a technical change -- would be if instated -- to the way that economists calculate inflation, and it would affect every program that has -- that uses the CPI in its calculations. And so it’s not directed at one particular program; it would affect every program that uses CPI. There are also -- as part of the President’s proposals, he would make sure that the most vulnerable were exempted out from this change.

But let’s be clear, this is something that the Republicans have asked for, and as part of an effort to find common ground with the Republicans, the President has agreed to put this in his proposal -- agreed to have this as part of a broad deficit reduction package that includes asking the wealthiest to pay more so that we can achieve the kind of revenue targets that are necessary for a balanced approach to deficit reduction.

neverforget

(9,434 posts)
173. Pretty sweet deal huh? These "technical adjustments" affect people's lives
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:05 PM
Dec 2012

but those in Washington are so far removed from everyday people that they don't get it anymore. Their salary, pensions and benefits should be cut too and painfully so. Make them live like the rest of us. This shit makes me so fucking angry!

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
209. Well, at least the president did approve of letting stem cell research go
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:58 PM
Dec 2012

Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)

Through. A person can hope that somewhere someone is putting together FDR's clone, and hopefully that clone will be active soon enough to kick some Republican and New Age style Democratic Butt -- the sooner the better.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
207. I am getting real tired of this tough choices for everyone shit
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:12 PM
Dec 2012

then let's see 70% for the top rate
that would be tough for me to live with but I am willing to do it for the benefit of this country
also I would be willing to give up my Congressional pension
also I would be willing to give up my Cadillac Congressional health care

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
69. Yeah, Manny.
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:37 PM
Dec 2012

Didn't you get all upset when a rumor was leaked that President Obama had trashcanned the Public Option?

And what about that time that a Washington Insider leaked that President Obama was going to extent the Bush Tax Cuts,
and you went all Outer Space on everybody?

Haven't you learned that you must bite your tongue until this is all a done deal,
and THEN hold your tongue because
you didn't get a pony,
or it was all Joe Lieberman's fault?

Boy, some people NEVER learn, do they?

Manny, you just got to learn the art of Blind Trust,
and never ask questions.
Things are Soooo much easier for a True Believer.
Go ahead, Manny.
TAKE the Blue Pill,
let go,
and slip into The Bliss!



"Morpheus:
That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.)

Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
(a red pill is shown in his other hand)
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

(Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill)
Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.

(Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)




Where never is heard
a discouraging word,
and the skies are not cloudy all daaaaaayyyyy!




[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

sendero

(28,552 posts)
89. plus 1000
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:48 PM
Dec 2012

some people simply never learn. to even be TALKING about SS, which is funded for decades out, is ridiculous. medicare, well that is another story.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
171. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:00 PM
Dec 2012

Nay

(12,051 posts)
176. Indeed. Words mean nothing; actions mean everything. This is where Mr Obama sends
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:10 PM
Dec 2012

mixed messages -- he talks a great talk, but as you say, the actions belie the words. And Manny is entirely correct to be deeply suspicious and outraged at what's going on. A lot of us out here are right with you both.

DFW

(54,057 posts)
74. If it makes any difference
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:49 PM
Dec 2012

I got to spend an hour with Obama in July. We talked, among other things, about deficit reduction. Cutting Social Security wasn't even mentioned as a possibility. On Fox, maybe. But the man himself stated nothing of the sort.

By the way, he IS interested in cutting the COST of health care to Americans, but not the amount of it any citizen gets. There may be some statistic that forces him to reconsider this, but Bonehead isn't it.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
75. Then why appoint Simpson and Bowles to lead a commission
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 09:56 PM
Dec 2012

charged with determining how to cut deficits? The only certain answer from those two was to cut Social Security.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
101. Did he say that he WOULDN'T cut SS?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:18 PM
Dec 2012

That would be far more interesting than his avoidance of the subject altogether

DFW

(54,057 posts)
142. He said he had no intention of cutting it
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:41 AM
Dec 2012

I can't know if any kind of brutal reality might have made him change his mind in the meantime, but it was certainly not what he planned and he definitely didn't avoid the subject. I doubt that he had anything else in mind in July, but then I doubt FDR had planned to fight a four year two front war in July, 1941, either. He also said he has no problem with the so-called "cliff" if Bonehead and his party won't come off their position.

He was pretty sure a majority of the voters would have his back, and the polls seem to back him up. After all, it's a no-brainer to have some House Democrat re-introduce a bill to re-instate the lower tax levels for people earning under $250K. What Republican is gonna vote against that, and still dare to show his face in his district again?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
155. Did he say ANYTHING about "Raising-the-Cap"?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:36 PM
Dec 2012

He used to "talk" about that all the time....back when he was "Candidate" Obama.

Promises on Social Security



....but then Candidate Obama "talked" about a lot of stuff back then,
like renegotiating NAFTA,
making EFCA "The Law of the Land",
requiring GMOs to be labeled....
etc.
etc.
etc.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

DFW

(54,057 posts)
231. I didn't ask about that
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 07:32 PM
Dec 2012

I am stationed overseas, and the meeting was arranged for Democrats Abroad. Most of the time not spent on election strategy was spent on foreign policy and health care, with some environmental issues thrown in. An hour goes by VERY quickly with him..

 

forestpath

(3,102 posts)
77. I signed the petition. Funny how so many posters who claim President Obama won't
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:07 PM
Dec 2012

cut SS/Medicare are so threatened by a petition asking him not to.

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Response to Post removed (Reply #78)

a2liberal

(1,524 posts)
79. I don't think the cheerleaders here are going to believe it
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:08 PM
Dec 2012

until it actually happens. Maybe not even then. And when they do finally acknowledge it, it will be "well, nobody spoke up". (same thing happened with the insurance law)

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
178. They will pull out the same old litany of excuses:
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:14 PM
Dec 2012
"We can't let the Perfect be the enemy of the Good."

"We HAD to do SOMETHING!"

"We can Fix it Later".

"We might not have had 60 votes."

"He has to be President of ALL the people."

"What??!@! You want him to be like Bush?"

"It takes a long time to turn a ship at sea."

(Whatever the fuck THAT was supposed to mean.
It only took 2 hours to sink the Titanic.)

"This was an incremental step in the right direction."

"He SAVED the Children."

"Thank GAWD it passed."

"What? You didn't get your pony?"

"Have you seen The LIST!"

"America is a Center-Right nation!"

"You don't understand how government works!"

"All the sensible, Reality Based Democrats support this."

"Just more noise from the Fringe Left Wing."

"Obama IS the Most Liberal President EVER."

"I have a picture of the President with a light around his head."

"A BRILLIANT Chess move.
NOW the Republicans can't complain!"

"We'll Fix-It-Later!"

"This is a step in the Right Direction."

It was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault!!!
He is a Big Bully SUPERMAN
who ruined it for everybody.
There was NOTHING we could Doooooo.
It was HORRIBLE!"



Did I miss any?



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone[/font]
[/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]








MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
81. And I have every right to call him "Spelunker In Chief" until he realizes....
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:26 PM
Dec 2012

He won the fucking election, so this is his god-damned mandate!

SIGN THE PETITION!

 

Neon2012

(94 posts)
90. Total bullshit!
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 10:49 PM
Dec 2012

The 10% is cuts to inefficiencies, not benefits.

Shut the fuck up with this bullshit!

(Ryan/Romney blamed Obama for 76B in Medicare cuts)

Agony

(2,605 posts)
108. That is what you said about the Commodity Futures Modernization Act signed by Pres Clinton
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:50 PM
Dec 2012

look where that got us...

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
109. Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:56 PM
Dec 2012

Now google "CPI-E". Check out the difference in size between the CPI-E, which actually measures inflation experienced by the elderly, and the chained CPI.

durablend

(7,416 posts)
196. Ah so Granny is an "inefficiency"
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 06:32 PM
Dec 2012

Well at least you people are finally admitting you want her in the ground.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
97. Yay, Obummer is finally letting his long-stifled cat food-feeding flag fly!
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:05 PM
Dec 2012

He's always wanted to destroy America. The political poles are oddly in agreement about this.



CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
132. The answer is "B"
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:25 AM
Dec 2012

I can't take this doomsday "let's swallow anything the media throws out there yet AGAIN" OP seriously.

 

lib2DaBone

(8,124 posts)
100. Obama just sent 30,000 troops back into Iraq.. we are NEVER leaving..
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:15 PM
Dec 2012

Obama is a creature of Wall Street and the Big Banks. He could care less about America..

Our only hope is to become vocal. E-mail, Text, Call and complain.. with the hope that it might make a difference?

The only other option is to remain silent... under which case.... we get NOTHING.....

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
114. 30,000 back to Iraq? Do you have a source for that?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:13 AM
Dec 2012

I am pretty sure we would have heard about it if that were true.

HoosierRadical

(390 posts)
104. Who in the hell folds on a winning hand?!
Tue Dec 18, 2012, 11:24 PM
Dec 2012

Does President Obama even like his supporters? Are we suppose to accept this BS deal, because it would have been worse with a President Romney? It is shit like this that makes me so angry and disappointed in President Obama, haven't the middle class and poor lost enough?! Hell with the Bush tax cuts, let's repeal the Reagan tax cuts!

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
117. Do you have any comprehension of the reference you make
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:25 AM
Dec 2012

when you accuse Manny of being "Goldstein"?

Is that truly the association you want to make about yourself?

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
113. Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process."
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 12:12 AM
Dec 2012

(thanks to madfloridian)

Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315

veganlush

(2,049 posts)
126. i yhink you dont understand negociating.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:56 AM
Dec 2012

For one thing, he likely knows that the boner wont be able to perform. The teabags are no saner than before. The public will see that obama was negociating in good faith. We will come out good in the end

kath

(10,565 posts)
135. We absolutely need a workers' party.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:37 AM
Dec 2012

The infiltration of the former Democratic party by DINOs, DLCers, Third Way types, and various Trojan Horses and other assholes is very nearly complete at this point.
The Party is dead.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
136. Has Axlerod told Obama he WON THE ELECTION?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:45 AM
Dec 2012

Because our President is acting like a loser, like a turncoat, a traitor to everything
the Democratic Party is supposed to stand for, and he did so based on a LIE: the
big lie that Social Security has ANY THING to do with the fucking deficit.

Shame on BHO. That is all I can think of to say. I'm ashamed to be associated
with this unnecessary act of cruelty against our elders.

amborin

(16,631 posts)
137. the FICA tax cut was a step toward dismantling Social Security....it's being dismantled bit by bit;
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:51 AM
Dec 2012

and cutting FICA also meant that, for the first time in history, it was true that Soc Sec added to the deficit/debt

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
184. Eventually you will come to see Individual Cat Food Savings Accounts as Salvation
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:23 PM
Dec 2012

This is how "incrementalism" works: degrading what you had achieved before bit by bit until you don't care anymore or can't fight it. Forced purchase of a private sector POS products are the future, and RobamneyCare will be the model.

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
152. Should Lincoln have fired his losing generals?
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:33 PM
Dec 2012

After all, it was the Confederacy that was in rebellion.

(We expect the enemy to be the enemy, and we can't control that. But we can control our leaders - and we expect them to win, or at least fight hard.)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
223. It does not work that way
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:41 AM
Dec 2012

There is no fight between branches of the government - they are co-equal. The only place to win a direct battle is the elections.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
225. You are smoking something.
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 12:40 PM
Dec 2012

Obama is the leader of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Part *should* be at war with the crazies - instead, they are capitulating and triangulating at every turn.

Are you seriously claiming, for example, that LBJ's civil rights legislation was not a victory over the southern racists?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
157. I can't blame a DOG for being a DOG.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:46 PM
Dec 2012

I don't vote for Republicans.
I don't send them any money.
I don't support Republicans (even those with a D after their name) in any way.
They have absolutely no reason to listen to me.

I EXPECT Republicans to behave like Republicans.
I am never disappointed.

I DO send Democrats my money.
I DO vote and campaign FOR Democrats.
I EXPECT Democrats to act like Democrats.

When Democrats act like Republicans,
I see that as a betrayal.
I am furious,
and the Democrats who ARE acting like Republicans
should expect to HEAR from me.

Those who claim to be Democrats,
but support these betrayals of traditional Democratic Party Values will also hear from me,
because THEY are a BIG part of the problem.


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

treestar

(82,383 posts)
187. Well then why don't you blame Republicans
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:43 PM
Dec 2012

in the House for holding out on the tax cuts? That's what Republicans do. If the House were in the hands of Democrats - no problem would exist.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
158. This morning you were ranting that this was not true, calling DU liars...
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 03:36 PM
Dec 2012

Now you skipped the apology, moved on to 'they are not blaming the right people'.
Good lord.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
188. The people to blame are Republicans
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:44 PM
Dec 2012

Boehner and the House. Without their power, this discussion would not even be necessary.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
214. The president proposed cuts. I will blame both
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:47 PM
Dec 2012

thank you very much. Cuts will not pass unless the Repukes AND THE PRESIDENT want them. So if there are cuts, both are to blame. OTOH the Repukes campaigned on cuts, while the president campaigned on NOT cutting.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
222. Not that simple
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
Dec 2012

The President would not have to even think about these cuts if it were not for the Republicans. The choice is the fiscal cliff, which could hurt people on food stamps and unemployment. That's because of the Republicans. Republican House mean Republicans with power, and it's what they want that drives these proposals. They can complain the same way because they are not getting the tax cuts they would want.

So make sure there is a Democratic Congress (at least, let alone Blue Dogs) in 2014 or these compromises end up being required.

MNBrewer

(8,462 posts)
228. you're funny
Thu Dec 20, 2012, 03:30 PM
Dec 2012

If the Republicans weren't in charge of the House of Representatives, President Obama wouldn't be FORCED to propose cuts to Social Security. OK. But how about some reality?

But they ARE in charge of the House of Representatives and he STILL didn't have to propose cuts to Social Security.

He did it voluntarily, despite the fact that it is completely unrelated to the issue of the "cliff". Whether this is n-dimensional chess, or a stunt to make it look like he's trying oh-so-hard to compromise with the Republicans in order to avoid the so-called "cliff", it certainly ISN'T living up to the promise to preserve Social Security.

Even if these cuts don't get enacted, he's flip-flopped on that, regardless of whether it is cynical political ploy or his sincere willingness to cut future benefits.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
232. Of course he is doing it to avoid the cliff
Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:18 AM
Dec 2012

At any rate, the entire scenario takes place only due to a Republican House. If the House were Democratic, this would not be happening. The Republicans are at fault. And some of them don't want to sign anything that raises taxes on the rich - Boehner himself is having problems with his own side. So they see it the same way. But they are just as unreasonable - they don't have the Senate and the Presidency, and can't just lay the fact they have to give up their tax cuts to Boehner's "weakness."

kenny blankenship

(15,689 posts)
181. He's been to the mountaintop.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:16 PM
Dec 2012

(Or maybe it was just the top of Trump Tower?) Anyhow...
Can't we all just get along...and cut Social Security?

hay rick

(7,521 posts)
182. Signer 2471.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:18 PM
Dec 2012

Plan B is acquiring a taste for cat food. I used to sneak dog biscuits as a kid, so I may be ok.

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
213. Actually he recently said he's a Republican
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:43 PM
Dec 2012

a rare case in which he's told the truth over the last few weeks

 

blkmusclmachine

(16,149 posts)
204. Austerity Now! Austerity Forever!
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:01 PM
Dec 2012

It's good to see the paid posters shilling for the WH in 1 place. Makes it so easier to put them on Ignore.

great white snark

(2,646 posts)
210. Any other non-vindictive person would have stopped at false prediction number 10.
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:01 PM
Dec 2012

Gotta give ya credit for that.

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