General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLooks like Obama's on the cusp of fulfilling his dream
of cutting Social Security benefits.
10% cuts for 85-year-olds: very impressive!
The wealthy can start sleeping better again, now that they know the Trust fund is starting to funnel into their coffers.
Don't think this is a good idea? Then sign the $&@#ing petition:
WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO: not cut Social Security and/or Medicare to simply keep taxes low on the wealthiest Americans
Ask your friends and family to sign too. One day, if they're not eating cat food, they'll thank you.
msongs
(67,199 posts)leftstreet
(36,081 posts)He had more political capital than any Prez in our lifetimes
Squandered it, blew it, pissed it away
The only campaign promises he's kept:
1) Take Michelle on a date
2) Get his kids a dog
Fail
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...the MSM is NOT our friend and will report anything as fact, you still continue to believe them.
No, you're the one demonstrating weak tendencies. Grow a pair.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....hopefully, you actually knew that.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)you do know who he is right?
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Terra Alta
(5,158 posts)ending the war in Iraq.. overturning DADT.. passing health care reform.. hunting down bin Laden.. to name a few.
Yes, there's a fail, alright, but it isn't Obama.
CheapShotArtist
(333 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Such as: getting the US into civil wars and bloody regime change operations in Libya and Syria, no public option or cost containment for most people in the HRC that was passed, an unprecedented campaign to silence national security whistleblowers.
Maybe not a fail, but he gets mixed reviews.
brush
(53,475 posts)We all know very well that the President kept us from major, Bush/repug-style involvement in Syria and Libya. If you don't know that, you should. There have been no boots on the ground, no troops getting killed or maimed. That to me shows measured restraint and the wisdom to know that we can't continue to blow our billions by storming into all hot spots in the world with guns blazing and bombs falling. What support that has been offered to those fighting the oppressive regimes has been financial and most likely weapons funneled through a third party ally.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)"Measured restraint and wisdom" - how humanistic of you to say so.
brush
(53,475 posts)He kept US troops out, which didn't add more lives to the carnage. What exactly are you saying? There's nothing wrong with a little clarity.
mucifer
(23,374 posts)President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history. That begins with taking comments and questions from you, the public, through our website.
Call the President
PHONE NUMBERS
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
TTY/TTD
Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitor's Office: 202-456-2121
I really don't see The President backing down from this. But, it can't hurt to sign the petition and call!
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)pscot
(21,023 posts)It seems like cuts to SS will be his 1st post-election cave. God knows what we can expect, now that he doesn't need to get re-elected. His lips don't seem to be able to form the word NO.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...from the President himself?
closeupready
(29,503 posts)?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)When has POTUS ever wanted to cut SS?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Since before his inauguration. Think "appointing Simpson-Bowles", for example.
To be fair, others continue to think he's never wanted to cut SS and still does not.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Those are speculations. I belive in our President that he's going to do the best he can. Screw the haters.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)In hist 2011 SOTU.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Ineeda
(3,626 posts)is one of the consistent ones, so you're wasting your breath. He always thinks/believes the worst of this president. BTW, I agree with you.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Obama is very much part of the business/political establishment class, and their priorities are all the same; take more from the 99% and give more to the 1%. If he didn't believe in that, he never would've been the DLC-approved presidential nominee in the first place.
Words from politicians don't mean jack shit. Only their maneuvering does. And Obama has been maneuvering toward this goal, in synch with the rest of the political class, since he was inaugurated.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Eleventy dimension chess playing, is how they describe him.
Well, chess is, at its most basic, a game in which the pawns are sacrificed for the sake of the nobility.
That's all there is to the game. You sacrifice your smaller pieces correctly, and you save your king and destroy the opponent's.
No need to find the analogy distasteful, as long as you are one of the nobility.
tridim
(45,358 posts)It's shocking that you don't even know what the phrase means.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Who remember who this guy was back when he campaigned in Wisconsin in October of 2008, remember that he had respect for us pawns.
It's one thing to tell those of us who remember what this Party once stood for that we are pissed off because we don't have our ponies or unicorns yet. It's another to tell us that now there is an extra dimension to the definition of chess.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)femrap
(13,418 posts)like my mom are from the 'Quiet Generation.' So they seem like a good target. Gee, hope her electric bill doesn't go up or food prices, or her Medicare premiums, or the price of cat food and litter.
All those years she worked....at times, 3 jobs.
What a liar....and he does it with such ease. What a talent.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)often wonder if we wouldn't have been far better with Hilary.
Michigan Alum
(335 posts)femrap
(13,418 posts)mean I get to say "I told everyone so." Just kidding. I liked HRC. Obama was just too young and he knows NOTHING about how Wall Street works.
She would never do this to old women. And women will be the ones who will suffer the most.
I never trusted Obama....I voted for him in '08, but that was it...no phone banks, no knocking, no nothing. And he immediately pissed me off with his Cabinet selections.
Then along comes '12....and I just despise RobMe. To me '12 was an Election of Hate...on both sides. I hated RobMe more than I liked Obama...again, I just do not trust him. He's bought and paid for....as they all are.
Now it appears that my only hope is Mother Nature and she will decide to her shoulders and end globalization in its tracks. Pretty damn sad that I'm hoping Mother Nature will hit The Reset Button.
The only light I see at the end of the tunnel is a train headed toward me. Aren't I just a bundle of Holiday festivity tonight? Maybe I need some nog!
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)telling someone earlier tonight almost the same, don't expect this to all hang together long term. One of my older friends kept telling me many times she was voting for Obama, but there was something about his sincerity in all he was saying that bothered her. She's passed on now, and I think she was onto something many did not get.
femrap
(13,418 posts)weird 'words from the unknown' stated into/from my brain.
And I remember the first time I saw Obama on TV after he had declared he was going to run for President....the words were: "He is not what he appears."
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)policy commission of his first term, with a focus on "deficit" rather than "Wall Street," is pretty close to a definitive statement. Their conclusion was predetermined, and he made a big show of saying he'd go with their proposals. That is a statement.
If Bowles replaces Geithner, that will be a hell of a statement.
But it's looking like by then it will just be an exclamation point. I certainly hope your incredibly sanguine view of what's being cooked into this fiscal bump deal turns out to be true.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It does beg the question then: What was the precise and relevant reason for use of the word dream.
I can perceive it only melodramatic posturing, but I am fairly certain you can dissuade me of this with a valid and objective context of use, or simply by avoiding answering the question also can be convenient...
PETRUS
(3,678 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)He sounded like Pete Peterson's ventriloquist dummy. Once he appointed Simpson and Bowles, it was clear that this was a catastrophe.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)It gets interesting starting at 1:19.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)jsr
(7,712 posts)MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)And he is.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Even GWB got shot down for trying to touch SS. But let a Dem do it and the "loyal" Dems all applaud and just can't believe it's happening even while it actually is happening.
Obama is doing a lot of other stuff that DUers would have been OUTRAGED about but now that Obama is doing it it's just dandy.
Wake up and be consistent in your ideals, don't just blindly follow a Dem because they're on your "team". You may end up finding out you're not playing for the team you thought you were.
Michigan Alum
(335 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)..........can I laugh just once? ...that was just too funny Mother Petrie.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)ReRe
(10,597 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)I am sickened.
but you obviously like to sicken people.
what's wrong with you?
Yes, Obama's Dream all along has been to cut SS. It took him years to build a resume to be able to contest A Clinton for the Presdency. He worked real hard because it was very important for him to cut SS - that was his goal, his one and only true goal and all the other things he has accomplished are only smokescreens he needed to fool the world.
jeeesuz fucking cripes.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)
And, I have no evidence that he wanted to do this before January 2009.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)except you-know-what.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)That was a terrifically funny press briefing!
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....not the President.
Bzzzzztttt!! Try again.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I seem to have forgotten it.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...are you sure you're on the correct board?
Or should I say the "right" board?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Yet unaffiliated with the President, yes?
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)You demand quotes and links but refuse to provide them.
Why is that?
progressoid
(49,827 posts)That's fuckin hilarious. I'm sure my parents will think so too when their benefits will only be cut and not slashed. Ha ha ha.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)the YouTubes of Obama adopting a lot of Dennis Kucinich talking points are still up and running. October 2008, various towns and cities in Wisconsin, and he still was able to talk about watching the banking crowd, and insisting on regulations for them, if needed.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)and tricked us all into supporting him so he could fulfill their dreams of dismantling the social safety net!
It's his greatest dream to screw over poor seniors and give their money to gazillionaires...that's what gets him up in the morning.
:snark:
Except if that were really true, you wonder why these tycoons like the Koch brothers spent millions trying to defeat him.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)It all would have happened so much faster and without pretense if they had a Republican president. Republicans don't have to pretend they're on our side, we know they're not and their base is completely fooled. Our base is only partially fooled, then the ones who aren't fooled get ridiculed by those who are.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)Oh yeah, his two years in the US Senate..........
Whisp
(24,096 posts)how is Massive Headwound Hillary doing?
Beacool
(30,244 posts)How's our negotiating president? Caving in?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)that man excels at everything, doesn't he.
Beacool
(30,244 posts)But keep believing it.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Cheers!
Beacool
(30,244 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)Chumped by rumor and innuendo again.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)or is it alarming folks that they better stay on top of their politicians because this so-called trail balloon is being floated out there. What if nobody responds to that trial balloon? Will the White House see that as the public acquiescing to such a proposal?
To me, this is productive.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...nah, that's not possible is it?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Are you saying motivation to apply pressure on a politician to get what you want is bad....? Sorry, that makes no sense at all.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)nice try though. Have a nice night playing games online.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...go back and read it s...l...o...w...l...y. It might make more sense to you.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)WHAT harm is there????????? I tell the White House not to cave.... what harm is there?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)And by leaking details of its plan last night, the White House hoped to upstage Boehners Plan B announcement, said a Democratic Senate leadership aide.
The details of the presidents plan basically one upped Boehner by showing an even bigger move to the middle on entitlements than Boehner has showed on taxes, the aide said.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/dems-dodge-questions-on-spending-cuts-20121218
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)"NOW WE'RE TALKIN'..."
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Your SS may soon be fictional as well.
This will be a long, tough war.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)and those who live comfy lives, tell us to shut up because "it looks and sounds bad". See we should care about the comfies feelings over our own well being.
leeroysphitz
(10,462 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I still find it curious that the WH would leak it unless they are either really really close to a deal or don't expect Republicans to vote for it.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)That the cuts (CPI adjustments, swiping some 36 cents out of every four dollars of Social Security) are coming about because "there is a need to bring about revenue that just won't happen." Boehner won't budge on the tax increase to those making above 400K a year -so the Admin is willing to take some more flesh out of the hide of the people who are struggling.
Obama's ACA already swiped some 500 millions of dollars out of the MediCare budget. People here cheered that, as the statement released by the WH emphasized that it would mean "Cuts to the providers" not to the recipients.
But mark my words, when doctors can't afford to take on new MediCare patients, then what? How good is a government program without any damn providers? (Way back in the 1990's, I had a hard time finding doctors taking on new MediCarepatients. And that was almost two decades back.)
I find myself able to relax about life by envisioning an alternate world, one in which someone like Bill Moyers could be President. And he could have Bartlet and Yves Smith help him with the economy, while Giethner would be in jail waiting his court date. .
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Why should we believe this prediction is any more accurate than that one?
Sid
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)to the average recipients benefits.
Is that not true?
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Google the letter from the chief actuary of SS's analysis of Simpson-Bowles' recommendations.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I've linked and quoted numerous times on DU - do a search.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...to back up your assertion. That's the way it works on DU and any other board. Otherwise, you lose credibility....oh, wait....
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)You should check into it. Google is one of a number of "search sites".
They can be helpful!
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)I'm glad they are all outing themselves.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)mzmolly
(50,957 posts)Kill old people and stuff.
demwing
(16,916 posts)can't take no more....
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)"fulfilling his dream"
You are over the fucking top.
wryter2000
(46,016 posts)Santa, may I please kill the New Deal?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)I see what you did!
valerief
(53,235 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)No specifics yet.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)with Go To. I always shied away from them politically, but joined anyway and I'm glad I did. It's given me really concrete information and access to friends and family. Just "call your Congressman" or "get out the vote" while important is not that easy for millions and the lines are usually busy anyway...probably just On Hold...and these days, without a PAC and with Diebold, I have to question the actual impact of a vote.
Anyone 50 or older can join and it's a powerful PAC.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Unhealthy? Don't think so.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Thanks
dionysus
(26,467 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have no problem signing the petition or you voicing your concern here. It is how bs is stopped.
Although we both know it isn't Obamas dream. That is also bs.
neverforget
(9,434 posts)http://www.enewspf.com/latest-news/latest-national/39244-white-house-press-briefing-by-jay-carney-december-18-2012.html
Q Yes, Jay, a lot of top Democrats on the Hill, and I think President Obama, spent the campaign season saying, lets not touch Social Security -- it doesnt add to the deficit; we can resolve this issue without going to that entitlement program. What is the Presidents message to those lawmakers who promised constituents that Social Security would not be touched after the President now has put chain CPI on the table for Republicans?
MR. CARNEY: Well, lets be clear about one thing: The President didnt put it on the table. This is something that Republicans want. And it is --
Q But the Republicans --
MR. CARNEY: -- part of his -- if I could please answer Sams question, Id appreciate it. And the President did include it in his counterproposal, his counteroffer, as part of this process, as part of the negotiation process. I would note that this is a technical change -- would be if instated -- to the way that economists calculate inflation, and it would affect every program that has -- that uses the CPI in its calculations. And so its not directed at one particular program; it would affect every program that uses CPI. There are also -- as part of the Presidents proposals, he would make sure that the most vulnerable were exempted out from this change.
But lets be clear, this is something that the Republicans have asked for, and as part of an effort to find common ground with the Republicans, the President has agreed to put this in his proposal -- agreed to have this as part of a broad deficit reduction package that includes asking the wealthiest to pay more so that we can achieve the kind of revenue targets that are necessary for a balanced approach to deficit reduction.
Q Right, but theres a lot -- again, my question was theres a lot of people who voted for these lawmakers on a promise that --
MR. CARNEY: You heard the President say every time he talked about this --
Q Can I finish my question?
MR. CARNEY: Sure, yes.
Q A lot of people -- Ill let you answer -- a lot of people voted for these lawmakers for reelection not too long ago on a promise that Social Security wouldnt be touched, and if it was touched, it would be done separately from these fiscal cliff negotiations. What do those people -- what are these people now supposed to believe about the promises that their lawmakers made, including the President?
MR. CARNEY: Let me again make clear two things. One, the President has always said as part of this process when were talking about the spending cuts side of this that it would require tough choices by both sides. And that is certainly the case if you want to reach an agreement.
Secondly, this is a technical adjustment that supporters of it and economists -- outside economists say is meant to make the governments estimates of inflation more accurate. Thirdly, as part of the Presidents proposal, there is a clause that would protect vulnerable communities including the very elderly when it comes to Social Security recipients.
So theres no question that it represents an effort to compromise, but it is also not -- this is a technical adjustment that economists believe is about getting the proper measure of inflation, and it is one sought by Republicans.
So, again, were not going to get everything we want. We knew that the Presidents proposal that he put forward to the super committee that we put forward in the beginning of these negotiations would not pass unchanged. But I think your question demonstrates the absolute fact that the President has shown enormous good faith in trying to reach a compromise here. And it would be shocking if Republicans passed up this opportunity for what they say they seek, which is significant deficit reduction, significant spending cuts, simply to protect those just shy of being millionaires from having to pay a dime extra in income taxes.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Ready to scream!!
Matariki
(18,775 posts)arrrrgh.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Make them.
Look at Bill Clinton. He had to decide if he would sign off on the two banking "reform" measures that came to him late in his Presidency. And through signing those measures, the Glass Steagall protections that shielded the middle class from having to worry that our financial institutions would go and create derivatives and CDO's and other exotic instruments that would spell the demise of our society in a mere nine years from the day of his signing. Yet, with one swipe of his pen, Bill Clinton allowed for those "reforms."
And by the time he left office, he was bankrupt. But then, within six months of leaving office, he is making speeches for
$ 150K a pop. In very short time, he and Hillary are worth some 100 million bucks. All for two small signatures, that probably were only discussed on page 34 of the New York Times.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Lawsuits defending himself cost the couple a lot. (Whitewater, and of course, the Monica scandal that ended up being considered an impeachable offense.)
He himself has commented that he didn't have money till after he left the WH.
One citation out there is here:
http://voices.yahoo.com/bill-hillary-clinton-out-debt-worth-400447.html
Bill and Hillary Clinton Are Out of Debt and Worth Millions
Earnings Derived Mostly from Speeches, Bill and Hillary Clinton Now Own Millions
Kareyth Patrick
Kareyth Patrick, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Jun 16, 2007 "Share your voice on Yahoo! websites. Start Here."
When Bill Clinton left office with Hillary Clinton, together they owed millions of dollars in legal costs accrued fighting scandals that dotted the landscape of their White House years, as the Telegraph reports. With earnings based mostly on speaking engagements for which Bill is abundantly popular, Bill and Hillary Clinton now have a healthy fortune of many millions of dollars.
The Washington Post reports that when Clinton left office, he and Hillary were in debt more than $10 million dollars, though Reuters specifies $5.5 million with $1.5 million in assets. Both Bill and Hillary wrote best selling books to begin to reduce their debt.
####
Article goes on to state that in one year, Bill Clinton made some 10 million from speeches.
At the time the Yahoo article (above) was written there were many other similar citations.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)he had what most of us would consider a nice upper-middle-class income, benefits, and some moderate invested capital.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Couple owed money for lawsuits, including the lawyers that were paid to assist them in various lawsuits, at the time that they left the WH.
But like so many other government officials, Clinton knew that once he was out of office, the "good deeds" he had done would finally pay off. For instance, back when the bank reform measure was stumbling around in Congress:
- NYTimes.com
Oct.-Nov. 1999 Congress passes Financial Services Modernization Act after 12 attempts in 25 years, Congress finally repeals Glass-Steagall, rewarding financial companies for more than 20 years and $300 million worth of lobbying efforts. As pretty sycophantic article in NYT stated (Citis Creator, Sandy Weill, Alone With His Regrets ):
To create Citi, Weill fought to change laws that had prevented banks, insurers and brokerage firms from merging. But in the wake of the economic crisis last year, Congress has introduced laws to reinstate parts of the legislation. In November, Mr. Weills former co-C.E.O. at Citi, John Reed, told Bloomberg News that he was sorry for his role in helping to end Glass-Steagall.
When asked about Mr. Reeds apology, Mr. Weill says: I dont agree at all. Such differences, he says, were part of our problem.
Mr. Reed, who lost a battle with Mr. Weill for control of Citi, declined to comment for this article.
<snip>
Mr. Weill personally recruited Robert Rubin to Citi after Mr. Rubin stepped down as Treasury secretary. Mr. Rubin, who has since left Citi and declined to comment about his tenure there, has been criticized as failing to help rein in the banks excesses.
<snip>
Analysts say that managerial problems plagued the Citi empire and that its board, which might have imposed some order, became little more than a rubber stamp during the Weill era. Sandy surrounded himself with yes men, says Mr. Whalen. He never wanted anyone second-guessing him. At the time supporters hailed the change as the long-overdue demise of a Depression-era relic. So on Oct. 21, with the House-Senate conference committee deadlocked after marathon negotiations, the main sticking point is partisan bickering over the bill's effect on the Community Reinvestment Act, which sets rules for lending to poor communities.
Sandy Weill calls President Clinton in the evening to try to break the deadlock after Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, warned Citigroup lobbyist Roger Levy that Weill has to get White House moving on the bill or he would shut down the House-Senate conference. Serious negotiations resume, and a deal is announced at 2:45 a.m. on Oct. 22.
####
Remember, If Bill had wanted to - he could have vetoed the banking "reform" bill. But he didn't want to do that. Possible renumeration, such as the offered speeches with the huge fees, and also his wife's need to be able to raise monies from Wall Street to support her bids for office, were most probably part of his considerations.
And again, Bill himself has stated that the couple had no serious money at their disposable when they left the WH. That quote has been spotted more than a dozen times on various financial blogs.
Also, here is a synopsis of their holdings from CNN:
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/index.html
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)want to see something that says he was bankrupt. or uses the word 'bankrupt'.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Did the couple actually file for bankruptcy. No. But like a Yahoo news citation mentions, "The Washington Post reports that when Clinton left office, he and Hillary were in debt more than $10 million dollars, though Reuters specifies $5.5 million with $1.5 million in assets. Both Bill and Hillary wrote best selling books to begin to reduce their debt."
Colloquially, the term bankrupt can refer to being without the means to pay bills that are outstanding and are larger than the assets you have on hand. Legally, it means you have entered into a court agreement and a bankruptcy has been filed, with conditions that must be reached, with certain personal assets protected, but other things, like sometimes retirement monies, are dispensed to those to whom the party owes the debt.
The fact is that around the time they left the WH, they had massive amounts of legal debt. Ten million is what Yahoo News citation relates the WaPo piece had stated. The WaPO piece is not found on the internet - often the URL a newspaper holds expires after a certain time.
Perhaps insolvency would be the better word.
Had those law firms or attorneys to whom they owed the monies set up a court date and sued the couple, they would have probably filed for bankruptcy. And of course, even then, the Clintons would not be living in a van down by the river. Most states allow people to keep their residence, their vehicles and personal effects.
If I remember correctly, their friends helped them pay their bills. And/or maybe some of the attorneys involved put the payments on "hold."
In talking about this aspect of their lives, I hold no grudge against them. It was a tremendously disgusting spectacle to watch the Republicans sink so much money into the Whitewater investigation, and then to have the Monica Lewinsky scandal become "impeachable."
One thing I'd like to add - Clinton was approached by the Powers that Be to go and have a nasty and brutal all out war against the people of Iraq. Clinton refused them the war, and six weeks later, the Monica scandal hit the newspapers and TV news outlets.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)Fucking disgusting.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)request, then later he says Obama included it in his proposal.
SO HE DID, IN FACT, INCLUDE IT, AND IT WAS BECAUSE THE PUGS REQUESTED IT.
Fucker.
They're really using the child's retort "he started it!" as their way of not taking responsibility for this??? That's low. And pathetic.
=======================================================================
MR. CARNEY: Well, lets be clear about one thing: The President didnt put it on the table. This is something that Republicans want. And it is --
Q But the Republicans --
MR. CARNEY: -- part of his -- if I could please answer Sams question, Id appreciate it. And the President did include it in his counterproposal, his counteroffer, as part of this process, as part of the negotiation process. I would note that this is a technical change -- would be if instated -- to the way that economists calculate inflation, and it would affect every program that has -- that uses the CPI in its calculations. And so its not directed at one particular program; it would affect every program that uses CPI. There are also -- as part of the Presidents proposals, he would make sure that the most vulnerable were exempted out from this change.
But lets be clear, this is something that the Republicans have asked for, and as part of an effort to find common ground with the Republicans, the President has agreed to put this in his proposal -- agreed to have this as part of a broad deficit reduction package that includes asking the wealthiest to pay more so that we can achieve the kind of revenue targets that are necessary for a balanced approach to deficit reduction.
neverforget
(9,434 posts)but those in Washington are so far removed from everyday people that they don't get it anymore. Their salary, pensions and benefits should be cut too and painfully so. Make them live like the rest of us. This shit makes me so fucking angry!
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 19, 2012, 09:54 PM - Edit history (1)
Through. A person can hope that somewhere someone is putting together FDR's clone, and hopefully that clone will be active soon enough to kick some Republican and New Age style Democratic Butt -- the sooner the better.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)then let's see 70% for the top rate
that would be tough for me to live with but I am willing to do it for the benefit of this country
also I would be willing to give up my Congressional pension
also I would be willing to give up my Cadillac Congressional health care
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Didn't you get all upset when a rumor was leaked that President Obama had trashcanned the Public Option?
And what about that time that a Washington Insider leaked that President Obama was going to extent the Bush Tax Cuts,
and you went all Outer Space on everybody?
Haven't you learned that you must bite your tongue until this is all a done deal,
and THEN hold your tongue because
you didn't get a pony,
or it was all Joe Lieberman's fault?
Boy, some people NEVER learn, do they?
Manny, you just got to learn the art of Blind Trust,
and never ask questions.
Things are Soooo much easier for a True Believer.
Go ahead, Manny.
TAKE the Blue Pill,
let go,
and slip into The Bliss!
"Morpheus:
That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else, you were born into bondage, born inside a prison that you cannot smell, taste, or touch. A prison for your mind. (long pause, sighs) Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
(In his left hand, Morpheus shows a blue pill.)
Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.
(a red pill is shown in his other hand)
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
(Long pause; Neo begins to reach for the red pill)
Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more.
(Neo takes the red pill and swallows it with a glass of water)
Where never is heard
a discouraging word,
and the skies are not cloudy all daaaaaayyyyy!
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
sendero
(28,552 posts)some people simply never learn. to even be TALKING about SS, which is funded for decades out, is ridiculous. medicare, well that is another story.
In Truth We Trust
(3,117 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)mixed messages -- he talks a great talk, but as you say, the actions belie the words. And Manny is entirely correct to be deeply suspicious and outraged at what's going on. A lot of us out here are right with you both.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I suck.
Hotler
(11,353 posts)DFW
(54,057 posts)I got to spend an hour with Obama in July. We talked, among other things, about deficit reduction. Cutting Social Security wasn't even mentioned as a possibility. On Fox, maybe. But the man himself stated nothing of the sort.
By the way, he IS interested in cutting the COST of health care to Americans, but not the amount of it any citizen gets. There may be some statistic that forces him to reconsider this, but Bonehead isn't it.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)charged with determining how to cut deficits? The only certain answer from those two was to cut Social Security.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)That would be far more interesting than his avoidance of the subject altogether
DFW
(54,057 posts)I can't know if any kind of brutal reality might have made him change his mind in the meantime, but it was certainly not what he planned and he definitely didn't avoid the subject. I doubt that he had anything else in mind in July, but then I doubt FDR had planned to fight a four year two front war in July, 1941, either. He also said he has no problem with the so-called "cliff" if Bonehead and his party won't come off their position.
He was pretty sure a majority of the voters would have his back, and the polls seem to back him up. After all, it's a no-brainer to have some House Democrat re-introduce a bill to re-instate the lower tax levels for people earning under $250K. What Republican is gonna vote against that, and still dare to show his face in his district again?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)He used to "talk" about that all the time....back when he was "Candidate" Obama.
Promises on Social Security
....but then Candidate Obama "talked" about a lot of stuff back then,
like renegotiating NAFTA,
making EFCA "The Law of the Land",
requiring GMOs to be labeled....
etc.
etc.
etc.
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
DFW
(54,057 posts)I am stationed overseas, and the meeting was arranged for Democrats Abroad. Most of the time not spent on election strategy was spent on foreign policy and health care, with some environmental issues thrown in. An hour goes by VERY quickly with him..
ELI BOY 1950
(173 posts)forestpath
(3,102 posts)cut SS/Medicare are so threatened by a petition asking him not to.
Chef Eric
(1,024 posts)Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #78)
Post removed
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...but sir,
you were so much kinder than I would have been.
a2liberal
(1,524 posts)until it actually happens. Maybe not even then. And when they do finally acknowledge it, it will be "well, nobody spoke up". (same thing happened with the insurance law)
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)they are as deluded as Fox Nation
bvar22
(39,909 posts)"We HAD to do SOMETHING!"
"We can Fix it Later".
"We might not have had 60 votes."
"He has to be President of ALL the people."
"What??!@! You want him to be like Bush?"
"It takes a long time to turn a ship at sea."
(Whatever the fuck THAT was supposed to mean.
It only took 2 hours to sink the Titanic.)
"This was an incremental step in the right direction."
"He SAVED the Children."
"Thank GAWD it passed."
"What? You didn't get your pony?"
"Have you seen The LIST!"
"America is a Center-Right nation!"
"You don't understand how government works!"
"All the sensible, Reality Based Democrats support this."
"Just more noise from the Fringe Left Wing."
"Obama IS the Most Liberal President EVER."
"I have a picture of the President with a light around his head."
"A BRILLIANT Chess move.
NOW the Republicans can't complain!"
"We'll Fix-It-Later!"
"This is a step in the Right Direction."
It was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault!!!
He is a Big Bully SUPERMAN
who ruined it for everybody.
There was NOTHING we could Doooooo.
It was HORRIBLE!"
Did I miss any?
[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)He won the fucking election, so this is his god-damned mandate!
SIGN THE PETITION!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Neon2012
(94 posts)The 10% is cuts to inefficiencies, not benefits.
Shut the fuck up with this bullshit!
(Ryan/Romney blamed Obama for 76B in Medicare cuts)
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Neon2012
(94 posts)Let's try to be reasonable.
Agony
(2,605 posts)look where that got us...
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Now google "CPI-E". Check out the difference in size between the CPI-E, which actually measures inflation experienced by the elderly, and the chained CPI.
durablend
(7,416 posts)Well at least you people are finally admitting you want her in the ground.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)He's always wanted to destroy America. The political poles are oddly in agreement about this.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)Am I on FreeRepublic?
Or am I failing to detect snark?
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)I can't take this doomsday "let's swallow anything the media throws out there yet AGAIN" OP seriously.
lib2DaBone
(8,124 posts)Obama is a creature of Wall Street and the Big Banks. He could care less about America..
Our only hope is to become vocal. E-mail, Text, Call and complain.. with the hope that it might make a difference?
The only other option is to remain silent... under which case.... we get NOTHING.....
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I am pretty sure we would have heard about it if that were true.
HoosierRadical
(390 posts)Does President Obama even like his supporters? Are we suppose to accept this BS deal, because it would have been worse with a President Romney? It is shit like this that makes me so angry and disappointed in President Obama, haven't the middle class and poor lost enough?! Hell with the Bush tax cuts, let's repeal the Reagan tax cuts!
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
Post removed
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Or will you simply sit there and look silly?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)when you accuse Manny of being "Goldstein"?
Is that truly the association you want to make about yourself?
Pisces
(5,592 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)(thanks to madfloridian)
Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats: "This is not a bloodless process."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1540315
veganlush
(2,049 posts)For one thing, he likely knows that the boner wont be able to perform. The teabags are no saner than before. The public will see that obama was negociating in good faith. We will come out good in the end
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.
We really need a worker's party in this country.
kath
(10,565 posts)The infiltration of the former Democratic party by DINOs, DLCers, Third Way types, and various Trojan Horses and other assholes is very nearly complete at this point.
The Party is dead.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Because our President is acting like a loser, like a turncoat, a traitor to everything
the Democratic Party is supposed to stand for, and he did so based on a LIE: the
big lie that Social Security has ANY THING to do with the fucking deficit.
Shame on BHO. That is all I can think of to say. I'm ashamed to be associated
with this unnecessary act of cruelty against our elders.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)his goal all along, as Manny states.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)and cutting FICA also meant that, for the first time in history, it was true that Soc Sec added to the deficit/debt
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)This is how "incrementalism" works: degrading what you had achieved before bit by bit until you don't care anymore or can't fight it. Forced purchase of a private sector POS products are the future, and RobamneyCare will be the model.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
DakotaLady This message was self-deleted by its author.
WorseBeforeBetter
(11,441 posts)UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)And the voters who put them in charge of the House?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)After all, it was the Confederacy that was in rebellion.
(We expect the enemy to be the enemy, and we can't control that. But we can control our leaders - and we expect them to win, or at least fight hard.)
treestar
(82,383 posts)There is no way for a President to fire house members.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Against the Republicans, that is.
That's why we hired him.
treestar
(82,383 posts)There is no fight between branches of the government - they are co-equal. The only place to win a direct battle is the elections.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Obama is the leader of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Part *should* be at war with the crazies - instead, they are capitulating and triangulating at every turn.
Are you seriously claiming, for example, that LBJ's civil rights legislation was not a victory over the southern racists?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I don't vote for Republicans.
I don't send them any money.
I don't support Republicans (even those with a D after their name) in any way.
They have absolutely no reason to listen to me.
I EXPECT Republicans to behave like Republicans.
I am never disappointed.
I DO send Democrats my money.
I DO vote and campaign FOR Democrats.
I EXPECT Democrats to act like Democrats.
When Democrats act like Republicans,
I see that as a betrayal.
I am furious,
and the Democrats who ARE acting like Republicans
should expect to HEAR from me.
Those who claim to be Democrats,
but support these betrayals of traditional Democratic Party Values will also hear from me,
because THEY are a BIG part of the problem.
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
treestar
(82,383 posts)in the House for holding out on the tax cuts? That's what Republicans do. If the House were in the hands of Democrats - no problem would exist.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Now you skipped the apology, moved on to 'they are not blaming the right people'.
Good lord.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Boehner and the House. Without their power, this discussion would not even be necessary.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)thank you very much. Cuts will not pass unless the Repukes AND THE PRESIDENT want them. So if there are cuts, both are to blame. OTOH the Repukes campaigned on cuts, while the president campaigned on NOT cutting.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The President would not have to even think about these cuts if it were not for the Republicans. The choice is the fiscal cliff, which could hurt people on food stamps and unemployment. That's because of the Republicans. Republican House mean Republicans with power, and it's what they want that drives these proposals. They can complain the same way because they are not getting the tax cuts they would want.
So make sure there is a Democratic Congress (at least, let alone Blue Dogs) in 2014 or these compromises end up being required.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)If the Republicans weren't in charge of the House of Representatives, President Obama wouldn't be FORCED to propose cuts to Social Security. OK. But how about some reality?
But they ARE in charge of the House of Representatives and he STILL didn't have to propose cuts to Social Security.
He did it voluntarily, despite the fact that it is completely unrelated to the issue of the "cliff". Whether this is n-dimensional chess, or a stunt to make it look like he's trying oh-so-hard to compromise with the Republicans in order to avoid the so-called "cliff", it certainly ISN'T living up to the promise to preserve Social Security.
Even if these cuts don't get enacted, he's flip-flopped on that, regardless of whether it is cynical political ploy or his sincere willingness to cut future benefits.
treestar
(82,383 posts)At any rate, the entire scenario takes place only due to a Republican House. If the House were Democratic, this would not be happening. The Republicans are at fault. And some of them don't want to sign anything that raises taxes on the rich - Boehner himself is having problems with his own side. So they see it the same way. But they are just as unreasonable - they don't have the Senate and the Presidency, and can't just lay the fact they have to give up their tax cuts to Boehner's "weakness."
Gin
(7,212 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Chef Eric
(1,024 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)CanonRay
(14,038 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)(Or maybe it was just the top of Trump Tower?) Anyhow...
Can't we all just get along...and cut Social Security?
hay rick
(7,521 posts)Plan B is acquiring a taste for cat food. I used to sneak dog biscuits as a kid, so I may be ok.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)WhoIsNumberNone
(7,875 posts)This is the first one where the site hasn't been crashed.
Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)a rare case in which he's told the truth over the last few weeks
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)sadly.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)It's good to see the paid posters shilling for the WH in 1 place. Makes it so easier to put them on Ignore.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I think I've seen that phrase before...
great white snark
(2,646 posts)Gotta give ya credit for that.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)PB
steve2470
(37,457 posts)catbyte
(34,174 posts)What a ludicrous statement.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)what should we think?