Which came first, the misogyny or the "lack of positive male role models"?
Last edited Sun Apr 13, 2025, 01:18 AM - Edit history (8)
Just finished watching Adolescence and reading up on some of the reviews and discussion it is spawning. While it's great that there's a larger discussion now of the impacts of misogyny on young kids, where I hope we don't settle complacently is "well, we just need to create more positive role models for boys".
Men as consumers have driven the vast majority of cultural products in modern times and still drive most of the media that is created and most political discourse. When was the last time your local movie theater wasn't headlining a superhero or action movie? 70% of TV shows and movies still have male leads or male dominated ensembles. 70% of speaking characters are still male. Video games are even more male-dominated. 80% of characters are male.
There are already tons of positive male role models if boys and men were willing to assess them on the basis of non-toxic masculine traits. Which characters and in-real-life men use their strength to look out for and try to help others while still respecting other peoples' boundaries? Show courage while acknowledging what others can contribute? Can lead, follow and be a good teammate? Manage their anger instead of taking it out on others? Are honest and show integrity? Think it's okay to be smart and respect science? Don't denigrate things like art, music and dance on the basis of arbitrary assignments of what is masculine or not? Are empathetic, kind and authentic? Actually like women and could carry on a conversation with one without the primary motivation of getting them into bed?
In movies and video games Superman, Captain America, Spiderman, Black Panther, Geralt, Eskel and Vesemir from the Witcher, Aragorn, Samwise Gamgee, Bilbo Baggins, Ted Lasso, Harry Potter, Captain Adama in Battlestar Galactica, Captain Picard, Ned Stark, Obi Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn, Etienne of Navarre in Ladyhawke, Aidan in Sex and the City and Ian in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Stephen Trager in Kyle XY, John Tunstall in Young Guns, Leonidas in 300, Rick O'Connell in the Mummy, Chidi from the Good Place, Ben in Parks and Recreation, Leto Atreides in Dune, Daniel in Love Actually, Michael Bluth, Moana's dad, Rick Grimes from the Walking Dead, Luther Hargreeves in the Umbrella Academy, Nick in Heartstopper, Hiccup in How to Train Your Dragon, Woody in Toy Story, the old guy in Up, Shrek, Wesley in the Princess Bride, George Bailey in It's a Wonderful Life, Juror #8 in 12 Angry Men, Jim from the Office, Malcolm in Firefly, Maximus in Gladiator.
In literature Atticus Finch, Odysseus, King Arthur, Robin Hood, John Watson, Mr Knightley, Horatio Hornblower, Richard Sharpe, Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin, the Three Musketeers, Edmund Dantes, Jean Valjean, Pip in Great Expectations, Bob Cratchit.
In real life Tom Hanks, Mark Ruffalo, Professor Brian Cox, Henry Cavill, Mads Mikkelsen, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans, Chris Pratt, Kumail Nanjiani, Lin Manuel Miranda, Michael Palin, Taika Waititi, Jason Momoa, Daveed Diggs, Antonio Banderas, Tony Shalhoub, Morgan Freeman, Lawrence Fishburne, James Earl Jones, Denzel Washington, Ethan Hawke, Misha Collins, Liam Neeson, Cillian Murphy, Daniel Radcliffe, Pedro Pascal, Jeff Bridges, Jamie Oliver, Lebron James, Stephen Fry, George Takei, Keegan Michael Key, Dave Grohl, Chris Martin, Eddie Vedder, Willie Nelson, Hozier, Dean Strang and Jerry Buting in Making a Murderer, David Tennant, Mr Rogers, Abraham Lincoln, MLK, Gandhi, Einstein, John Glenn.
In politics and the media, Pete Buttigieg, Tim Walz, Gavin Newsome, Raphael Warnock, Andy Beshear, Josh Shapiro, Adam Schiff, Alexander Vindman, Cory Booker, Barack Obama, Jon Stewart, John Oliver, Stephen Colbert, Trevor Noah, the Pod Save America guys.
If you're religiously inclined, Jesus, Buddha, the Dalai Lama, Pope Frances.
If you're not willing to fall into the trap that a man has to be perfect at every moment of their life's journey to be an overall good role model, there are thousands more. John Lennon. JFK. Sherlock Holmes. Mr Darcy. Luke Skywalker. Indiana Jones. Dexter's dad. Billy Elliot's dad. Chief O'Brien. Captain von Trapp. George Clooney.
The wise male role model/mentor who dies so that the hero can find their own path is an entire literary trope. Also stories about characters who are unfailingly perfect are boring because there is no character arc. If you are willing to pick up the good traits in some characters and leave the bad, there is an almost infinite smorgasbord of positive male influences.
We already have and have always had this concept in our culture - the mensch, the gentleman, the stand-up guy.
The problem is, unless the boy or man is open to those influences in the first place, they will always find some excuse to dismiss them. Too gay, too brown, too cerebral, too short, too bald, not ripped enough, not "Alpha" enough. The problem is coming to a definition of "masculinity" with an assumption that men should always be in charge and not like "girly" things, that other people owe you for making the effort of being decent to them, that you're entitled to people's time and attention without having to earn it, that "real men" don't cry or admit weakness or dance well or put their kids before their careers.
If that's where you're starting from, you're always going to reject positive male role models because you already have problematic assumptions. You're not looking for an aspirational figure that you can struggle to become. You're projecting your current issues into the future and looking for a successful figure that "looks like me" or that "I can relate to". And that's not what looking for a role model is about. That's seeking validation for not doing anything about yourself.
So instead of pretending that the problem is that we as a culture don't produce enough examples of how to be a good man, why not start the conversation with why all the positive role models that our culture does produce for men are being dismissed by boys who are under the influence of the misogynistic backlash we are currently experiencing?
= new reply since forum marked as read
I noticed something about 'Adolescence' that I haven't seen discussed anywhere: what was result of Eddie Miller's (Stephen Graham) example on his son?
Jamie's father, while a good, responsible guy, was hot-headed. He flew off the handle a few times, albeit calming down very quickly and recovering his composure in most cases. How could you expect young Jamie to do any different? And yes, that's a rhetorical question.
The character of Eddie Miller was flawed but generally good - if Jamie had followed his example he would not have ended up as he did. That's the difference between adolescence and adulthood.
