General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAR-15 In Particular And Guns In General Flying Off The Shelf.
Last edited Tue Dec 18, 2012, 01:56 AM - Edit history (1)
We are truly nuts as a nation. Any kind of gun control is going to cause a virtual civil war between pro gun and anti gun constituencies. It ls looking like a vicious political fight to get anything done whatsover.
All AR-15 and assault weapons need to be melted down. They have NO place in civilian hands.
F gun owners who love assault weapons.
doc03
(35,325 posts)any gun of that style.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Now they'll be almost impossible to find, but not because they're scarce.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Let me ask you this in regard to your metaphor: how does a theoretically unarmed "anti gun constituency" fight a war with no gun?
Seems to me like the gun industry has been fighting a war against this nation for over two decades.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)What is so sick is that the same AR-15 used in the massacre is flying off the shelves. That fact exposes a particular level of insanity that I have never seen. How can you be so jaded as to love a gun that has killed so many innocents. It is twisted and deranged. This gun control dispute is going to reveal how sick we are as a country.
In the end I do not see anything getting done because the resistance is going to be more fierce than we can imagine based on the reaction I see for even the prospect of debate. Obama's speech has set off a firestorm of resentment.
Chris Matthews on Hardball had this gun wing nut calling for revolution? Tackling the gun issue is going to be a very politically dangerous enterprise. The GOP will exploit it to get power back you can just about count on it. And the Koch's and their ilk will put almost billions into the next election cycle.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...We're talking about that wing-nut gun scum bag Pratt here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022017504
The power of the GOP/NRA cabal in this regard is overrated.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)Even though they may be a minority their voice is a megaphone with the help of hate media and the Koch cabal and its allies.
They are really stirring things up. Between the religious right, hate media, and the gun lobby they are already blaming liberals, lack of religion, secularists, Democrats and Obama for destroying the country. They are whipping the flames of discontent and getting ahead of any debate. The silence of the NRA means they are preparing counter attack on any efforts to discuss the gun issue.
It is becoming obvious that this election did not settle anything. The GOP is bitter and hateful their guy and guys lost and they want revenge on the electorate who voted Obama and Democrats in. Staunch Republicans want the worse for this nation. They will use anyone even the deaths of these children to advance their cause.
I do believe we are moving into a more sectarian attitude in this country like Northern Ireland. It is no longer bipartisan.
Trends tend to evolve slowiy under the radar. My take on the GOP is now ultra extreme and feels it has nothing to lose.
The reaction to the results of this election are still sinking in. Hatred of Obama will be worse now than ever.
Tmloft
(6 posts)It was two handguns, not an ar15.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The handguns were not fired.
Welcome to DU!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Or are you calling the Coroner and police liars?
NEWTOWN, Conn. -- Adam Lanza used a semiautomatic Bushmaster .223 rifle during his rampage through Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday, firing dozens of high-velocity rounds as he killed 20 children and six adults, authorities said Sunday.
Lanza, 20, carried "many high-capacity clips" for the lightweight military-style rifle, Lt. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police, told The Huffington Post in an email. Two handguns and a shotgun were also recovered at the scene.
The Newtown shooting quickly reignited the national debate over gun control. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) pledged on Sunday that she would introduce legislation to reauthorize a federal assault weapons ban passed during the Clinton administration, but allowed to lapse in 2004. Other politicians, like New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who leads a national coalition group pushing stricter gun-control measures, also used the shooting to call on President Obama to take immediate action tightening gun laws.
Any move to clamp down on consumer sales of military-style weapons could fall heavily on Bushmaster and its corporate parent, Freedom Group, a private company owned by a New York-based hedge fund, Cerberus Capital Management. According to its 2011 annual report, Freedom Group is the nation's largest manufacturer of military-style semiautomatics, which it calls "modern sporting rifles
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/school-shooter-adam-lanza_n_2312818.html
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)hatrack
(59,583 posts)You'll look less like an asshole, less like a troll and less like a liar.
Have a nice day!
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,673 posts)The gun nuts are just their useful idiots.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Who responds to that move, and by what means?
The House of Representatives? By impeachment? After last Friday?
Act now.
kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)is very little the President can do on his own via EO. This will need to go through congress.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)With a lot of potentially unflattering personal information being uncovered about them.
Push, push, appeal, discredit. Now, while public disgust is at flood tide.
WastedSaint
(53 posts)Loudly
(2,436 posts)Just the second term strongman battle the nation needs to force the issue.
Choosing sides and hardening positions in time for the next election campaign.
Bandit
(21,475 posts)Actually I probably should not have used quotation marks because it may not be exactly what was said but the jist is the same..
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)These weapons will appreciate in value dramatically if the AWB is re-instated.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It just means you can't put a bayonet mount on it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)kelly1mm
(4,732 posts)only bans the manufature and import of ar-15's (to use your example). All the stockpiled ar-15's could still be sold, for a rather large profit if the supply of new ar-15's were restricted.
That is what happened in the first AWB.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If it has only the detachable magazine and uses a traditional stock with no threaded barrel or bayonet lug, it could still be manufactured.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)The actual salient characteristics here are "semi automatic weapon that accepts detachable magazines". That's what makes it usable in a mass shooting.
If you want to ban that (or reschedule it under the NFA or whatever) we can certainly try, the reason that's not what the AWB did is because doing that winds up catching way too many guns for it to be politically feasible, and in particular a lot of guns that look much less frightening than the AR-15 despite operating the exact same way. So either you have to grandfather them in (and a ban that grandfathers in a hundred million durable items seems kind of pointless) or you have to figure out a way to take them from people (which is going to be all kinds of problematic).
Once the people working on the 94 ban saw exactly how many guns we were talking about (and that's only gone up since then) they tweaked it to only affect guns that looked like military weapons (and, again, the look doesn't change how they actually operate) because they could sell that (when someone sees an AR-15 they think "that's a deadly assault weapon" despite the fact that it's functionally identical to their grandfather's hunting rifle that they wouldn't want to ban). But the end result was for the manufacturers to weld the stocks and get rid of the bayonet lugs. For that matter Connecticut has an assault weapons ban, and the Bushmaster was legal under it.
Now, you could also simply ban the brand, but somebody else would make the Shrubmaster or whatever in a few weeks.
Llewlladdwr
(2,165 posts)It definately covered the majority of AR-15 type rifles available at the time since they featured both pistol grips and bayonet lugs. Removing either of these features allowed the weapon to be sold under the ban though and the bayonet lugs tended to be the feature removed since very few people end up fixing bayonets at the range. I remember pre-ban AR-15s that had both features went up in value because of the "cool" factor. Anyway, maybe we'll see, maybe we won't. Christmas is coming and who knows whether the momentum for new legislation will last 'til next year?
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Tmloft
(6 posts)Soldier and weapon.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)WastedSaint
(53 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)>makes crack about American men and small penises
>posts picture of German
ElbarDee
(61 posts)It's part of the entire gun culture that fills this nation.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)The kids of Democrats only play Hello Kitty: Island Adventure.
ElbarDee
(61 posts)Stupid straw man argument.
Only AA kids listen to rap.
Only Asian kids eat Ramen.
Only White kids play hockey.
You assume in my post that I say only RW kids play violent games. I would argue kids that grow up in RW households, surrounded by guns and religion are more prone to buy and play violent video games than those in a progressive household who grow up learning to value love and peace. My kids do not play violent games in my house.
But go on and play with your RW talking points.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Nothing. Argue that all you want, but there is nothing to back it up. My guess is there are just as many fundamentalist RW Christians who won't let their kids play violent games as there are progressives who don't.
Take a poll on here. See how many let their kids play violent games.
And you need to define violent games, of course. Do driving games where you can run over little people count? Using older examples, how about games like Mario Cart or Crash Team Racing (with Crash Bandicoot) where you blow up your opponent with missiles or bombs? How about LodeRunner where you trap little guys in holes which are filled in with brick?
ElbarDee
(61 posts)and they all promote a pro-gun pro-violent game, pro-RW tilt.
"My guess is there are just as many fundamentalist RW Christians who won't let their kids play violent games as there are progressives who don't."
Are you seriously defending these people on a progressive web-site?
Why, yes you are.
Yes, I do support our Constitution as well as logic. I am against any restriction of our freedoms which will have little or no impact on the problems we have. Banning "assault weapons" would have almost no impact. Most of the mass killings have been done with pistols or shotguns.
Banning video games would have little or no effect besides getting some losers out of their mom's basement. But there are lots of folks who use the games for entertainment and do it with no problems. I'm not willing to throw away their (or the game manufacturer's) 1st amendment rights. Personally I don't play but friends of mine do. Probably the biggest gamer I know is a very successful woman with a PhD in engineering.
Which people am I supposedly defending? Fundamentalist RWers who won't let their kids play violent games? Certainly not. In my day, those kids could not watch Road Runner or Tom and Jerry. And I pitied them.
And I defending gamers? Sure. Just as I do those who eat junk food yet are responsible enough to not be obese.
For a progressive, it sure seem like you think people have too many rights in several areas.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)plethoro
(594 posts)of banning them. Their prices will go up because they'll have to be snuck in and sales will be private done in person at a person's house by prearrangement. When Obama was elected President half my street bought more guns, which is strange because most claimed they voted for Obama. I've never seen an AR-15. I keep one gun in case someone breaks in the house.
flvegan
(64,407 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)The more vehement regular people protest the status quo, the more the crazies decide now is the time to stock up. Very, very sick and amoral. Worse than tobacco lobbyists in some ways.
Flabbergasted
(7,826 posts)makes people scream about gun control, which makes people buy more guns, which leads to a higher incidence of massacres, which makes people scream about gun control, which makes people buy more guns, which leads to a higher incidence of massacres,
0rganism
(23,943 posts)in practice, gun nuts eventually buy all the guns and ammo they can afford and we have a massacre+small arms shopping spree every week.
julian09
(1,435 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)It's about having. Like children and toys.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Just sayin.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What's the plan there?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)AlexSatan
(535 posts)or fully thinking things through!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)ETA: And whole lot of Iraqis and Afghans.
Hugabear
(10,340 posts)I'm not talking about door-to-door searches. But if somehow you are found with an AR-15 in your possession, then it gets confiscated immediately.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)I just wanted a few more mags to stock up in the even they get regulated. Not only was I too late, they are virtually sold out everywhere too. No FAL, AK or AR mags anywhere to be found and they are marked up 50% wherever I did find them! UUggghh. I also noticed everywhere is sold out of actual sporting rifles and receivers.
WastedSaint
(53 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)I only got 8 mags though.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Yeah, you pay shipping 4 times, but shiping was reasonable and the prices weren't hyperinflated.
Paladin
(28,252 posts)Why don't you name each of those new magazines after a child murdered at the Connecticut elementary school? Sure to be a hit with your friends at the rifle range.....
(Dark Sarcasm Alert, for those in need....)
ileus
(15,396 posts)They upped their prices on non windowed ones to 59 bucks...
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Tommy_Carcetti
(43,173 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)
I pray to God that this is satire.
Even if it is satire, though, it's pretty shitty satire.
And judging on your past posting history, I don't think it is satire.
Which simply means you come off as a shitty human being. Congratulations.
msongs
(67,394 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Although a Catch-22, I've long felt that anyone who drools over these type weapons should be prevented from acquiring them.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)You are one of prime examples. You love to post in gungeon of your latest lethal weapons purchases.
Enjoy your guns.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Are the people who buy guns because they fear the government. AKA insane gun nuts. Unstable paranoid people most likely to live in a home with doomsday preppers, or some such other nonsense. Thus perpetuates the cycle of violence.