General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill Musk/Trump kill Social Security and Medicare?
Who's going to stop them?
These issues have always been the "third rail" of politics. The Republican Party would never have done it because they knew it would end them. But today's Republican Party is a group of people who are living in fear and merely trying to keep what they have, and not displease the two kings.
What they've done over the past two weeks is mind-boggling. That was part of their plan and it's working.
The only way to fight back is through the court system. But what happens when court orders are simply ignored? After all, how many armies are controlled by judges?
We're in a terrible place at this moment, and no one seems to know how to put an end to it.
I know I'm going to get slammed as a "doom and gloom" person, Nonetheless, I'm only stating what I see happening.
So I ask, what are we going to do when Musk/Trump kill Social Security, Medicare and all the other safety net programs?

haele
(14,384 posts)I'm sure they're happy to keep the programs going on if they re-jigger it so they can skim off the top and only give us back what we put into it and no more.
Fire departments are fine, as long as you pay your monthly service fee !!
Cyrano
(15,388 posts)Trump & Co. are in the process of bringing about some of our worst dystopian nightmares.
It's possible that they may decide burning books is easier than banning them.
erronis
(20,531 posts)That's my biggest fear and there's no reason they won't do it.
Irish_Dem
(72,132 posts)LiberalLoner
(11,454 posts)Irish_Dem
(72,132 posts)I was a bit conservative on my questimate based on the fact that
Trump will face a great deal of pushback if he kills Medicare and SS outright.
However if he does a slow death of SS and Medicare,
like turning it all over to crooked managed care companies
and private industry who will gradually reduce benefits then
I will raise the odds to 80 or 90%.
Once the managed care companies deny medical care to seniors,
they will start dying and SS will save money.
And once the billionaires get their hands on the IRAs, older people
will be more on the margins and that group has a higher death rate.
So more money saved on SS.
All this money of course goes to greedy billionaires and corrupt politicians.
LiberalLoner
(11,454 posts)Im also not optimistic about other federally funded pensions such as fed and military.
Irish_Dem
(72,132 posts)I think you are a bit high on the total shut down odds, but I would not be at all shocked if you are correct.
misanthrope
(8,926 posts)That is why absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Dave says
(5,167 posts)These people are satanic.
GreenWave
(11,110 posts)We should confiscate musk's wealth and make him repay plus interest.
Wingus Dingus
(9,173 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 4, 2025, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)
entitlement/benefit programs systems and then tell them they have to jump through all sorts of hoops to restore their status and payments and accounts--betting of course that many won't ever succeed because they're too disabled/disconnected/poor/technically challenged. I was up half the night thinking of what they're planning to do to the most vulnerable.
yaesu
(8,622 posts)Arger68
(724 posts)setting up something to skim a few percent off of every transaction for social security and medicare. He could rake in billions that way. Like instead of having the government administered payments, they run through a private corp owned by Elon, and probably trump also.
valleyrogue
(2,203 posts)was speculating over the possibility Musk was putting in something that was something like PayPal, that he (and perhaps the likes of Thiel) would get a tiny amount of money for each transaction.
On the surface, it would make sense, but it raises more questions than it answers. Where is the transparency? Why not have security clearance? Moreover, why is Musk making proclamations (and Trump is also doing it) that are brazenly illegal?
Arger68
(724 posts)scenario where they are setting up something to pull percentage off of every transaction is probably the least nefarious thing they could be doing.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,862 posts)but here's the thing, the USSC, with their insane immunity decision giving Been A Dick Donald almost 100% immunity to any crime he commits while CiC, has lead to this, what they fail to realize is that under that decision, Been A Dick can remove them, have them jailed or worse and it would be legal.
Cyrano
(15,388 posts)put there heads in a noose with that "Presidential Immunity" piece of insanity.
delisen
(7,106 posts)You presented very rationally and poster are responding rationally.
Thanks for opening up discussion on this valid concern
leftstreet
(36,839 posts)They've been fighting back, eroding dollars and public trust in these programs since the New Deal
Everything will be privatized, and NO ONE will stop it
Lemons UK
(225 posts)Wingus Dingus
(9,173 posts)LiberalLoner
(11,454 posts)BannonsLiver
(19,375 posts)Cyrano
(15,388 posts)gab13by13
(28,772 posts)Put the funds in his Sovreign Wealth Fund and launder the money.
No funds no social safety nets.
FullySupportDems
(355 posts)That way they can get their hands on the money, and say they "saved" the programs. If they talk a good enough game, I think the magas will fall for it too.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(27,996 posts)Medicare and Social Security are orphans with no elderly mothers dependent on these programs.
Personally, if my only son were speaking out against these programs, I'd promptly move in with him, to remind him of what it used to be like.
My wonderful son is not that way at all. He's kind and generous and if I needed money, he could help me out.
totodeinhere
(13,637 posts)And Trump's parents are dead.
erronis
(20,531 posts)"Don't worry about your ill grandmother - you'll get tons of tax-free bonuses if you just reprogram this Social Security system.
Trust me (trumpmusk) - we always honor our contracts......
And the check will be in the mail."
(Whoops the USPS is defunct.)
PoindexterOglethorpe
(27,996 posts)Direct deposit, ya know?
valleyrogue
(2,203 posts)I am getting sick of this.
MarineCombatEngineer
(15,862 posts)Trashing now.
markie
(23,487 posts)to discuss, help, quell fears, commiserate, etc. I am sorry you are sick. Maybe rest and liquids would help
FullySupportDems
(355 posts)When people tried to discuss the possibility of Harris losing, they got similarly ridiculed. It happened quite a few times that I saw. That denial didn't help anyone deal with the loss.
So I think it's wrong to shut down this discussion. The radical right has wanted to "do something" with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid for many years. I think it's pretty likely they're mulling around what they can do now. I value what others think about it.
Scrivener7
(56,322 posts)beaglelover
(4,306 posts)Fla Dem
(26,868 posts)Why do you feel you have to stifle other DUer's opinions and concerns. That's why we're here.
Blue Full Moon
(2,406 posts)That has been their dream for decades.
Johnny2X2X
(23,036 posts)They are trying to kill the parts of it that benefits Democrats. It will be targeted, just watch.
Emile
(35,807 posts)Cyrano
(15,388 posts)Charging Triceratops
(441 posts)We know. We just can't say it here or anywhere else online.
You don't stop a tyrant with legislation, protest marches or a strongly worded letter.
Cyrano
(15,388 posts)we are totally unprepared for what you are implying. They are succeeding in attaining their goals while we are still trying to put on our pants.
"Preparation is the key to success."
Charging Triceratops
(441 posts)The kindling is there. It needs a hot, hot spark. We need to make the '60s look like a church picnic. Hell, we need to make Fort Sumter look like a church picnic.
All the warning lights are flashing red and we're looking for useless congresspeople to act. Ain't gonna happen, kids.
SnoopDog
(2,684 posts)...then it will be time for a revolution.
I am not a tough guy and I am retired, but I will not let them take what is mine and ours...somehow...
misanthrope
(8,926 posts)His avarice and power lust has lost all boundaries.
videohead5
(2,696 posts)At the gates of the White House, let them try.
DSandra
(1,626 posts)Conservatives are far more likely to own a gun than liberals (45% to 16%)
This, since they own most of the guns (as well as more extensively train with them), conservatives have this country for themselves.
LoisB
(11,054 posts)get their hands on that money.
dlk
(12,755 posts)They cant wait to raid it.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Musk and his DOGE Agents are actually the ones guilty of committing a crime. Their "authority" is unconstitutional. They are guilty of Obstruction of Government Operations.
Their attempts to freeze Federal funds is illegal as well. The Executive Branch does not have the legal right to freeze funds that have been authorized by the Congress. They also have no legal right to dissolve an Agency created by Congress.
This is a flagrant violation of the Constitution and the Separation of Powers. These people are domestic enemies of the Constitution and everyone that has taken an Oath to defend the Constitution must take action against these traitors and criminals.
It seems clear that these fascists will now weaponize the criminal justice system in DC and will drum up false and spurious charges against anyone that tries to stand against their authoritarian takeover of OUR government. This is an attempted deathblow to our Democracy. I do not believe that the People will stand for it. There will be an uprising of millions.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Musk and DOGE seizing the Treasury payment system is illegal and unconstitutional. It is a long shot, but perhaps Federal law enforcement could retake control of the Treasury payment system from Musk and his DOGE Agents.
If a Judge rules again that freezing federal money is unconstitutional then the FBI and other Federal law enforcement agencies would have a legal basis for retaking the Treasury payment system. They must be loyal to their oaths to defend the Constitution, not to any illegal orders to support an unconstitutional action by Musk. Hopefully these Federal Agents would be loyal to their oaths to defend the Constitution and not to those who are in violation of the Constitution.
The Federal Agents could restore control of the payment system to the civil service, who could then lawfully restart the federal payments. If Musk and DOGE stop the federal payments (no Social Security payments, no paychecks to federal employees, etc.) and this was ruled unconstitutional by another Judge then the FBI and other federal law enforcement would be able to legally seize the payment system back from DOGE. The loyalties of Federal Agents must be to the Constitution, not to Dictators who are flagrantly violating the Constitution.
Ocelot II
(125,846 posts)Snark Twain
(104 posts)they will not kill it, it is an established and reliable process by which they can collect money - but they will definitely raid it in many different ways
markie
(23,487 posts)yes, it is the reason it doesn't seem solvent... it is used as a fungible money... the republicans have delighted in calling it an entitlement as if it's a negative... SS would be fine if we didn't end the tax at $168,000+ ....or get creative in other ways
yellowdogintexas
(23,369 posts)Dollars to donuts that is what half the folks who cheered over "no taxes on Social Security" thought would happen.
By reducing the deduction, the fund goes dry
Increasing the eligibility age for Medicare and SS
Lowering the 'cap' on deductions from our checks. I think the stop point now is $145,000. Once your income reaches that point there will be no more deductions for the rest of the year. I think they may cut that down to a lower level.
It should actually be raised, which would keep the SS solvent. Bernie (along with others) have been ranting about this for years.
The last proposal was to have a gap between the current level and maybe $300,000 then increase it with no ceiling. Medicare does not have the cap.
'offering' us the option of moving it into an IRA would be the other thing they want. Those brokers etc make money off these funds and absorb the cost of processing our SS benefits.
with Medicare, we would all be put into Managed Care Plans.
Karasu
(1,570 posts)even knows anymore.
cer7711
(563 posts)And when those 401ks crater... too bad; so sad.
Money gone.
Note: SS was never intended to be a high-interest gambling option. It was establisshed (and is self-funded) to ensure a person against the ravages of old-age poverty and disease.
Cirsium
(2,732 posts)Privatization is the goal, which will kill Social Security and Medicare but do it in such a way that is not obvious to people. So much privatization has already flown under the radar.
Militant mass organizing and popular resistance are the only options we have now.
Figarosmom
(6,760 posts)But they don't want to crash markets so they need that money in circulation.
We'd end up moving in with our kids and all those retirement villages would go broke. As would all the other elderly related businesses. Nursing homes, care facilities, transportation co.,etc. That's too much of the economy.
A lot of right wingers get rich off the elderly and bilking Medicare (Ala Rick Scott),
Justice matters.
(8,610 posts)The two mafia kings better know that or they could end on the deep end of a golf course...
A Civil War could ensue though.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,039 posts)LPBBEAR
(553 posts)mostly intact all it takes to erase someone who is deemed too loud in protest regarding Trump and Musk's illegal actions is just a little "oopsie" on the keyboard.
"I'm sorry Sir, we have no records of you ever having Social Security. Where did you say you were born?"
After all...they do have complete access to the Treasury computer systems.
Can you say "oopsie"?
berksdem
(825 posts)No, for a lack of better phrasing - we are fucked. I am not sure we will ever come back from what is taking place. Our country has been hijacked and I fear there are no guardrails.
by robbing it blind. I know I'm not the only one who believes that FFS
Progressive dog
(7,499 posts)but they have to get rid of the Constitution first.