I call for a federal tax of $10 per grain on gun powder.

[RomneyLies]

I've heard thoughts about taxing bullets.

Fuck that, tax gunpowder so you affect those who reload bullets, too!

$10/grain would be between $40 and $70 per average .45 caliber bullet depending upon the the weight of the bullet.

One pound of gun powder would cost an extra $70,000.

[rustydog]

1. Great piss of more gun nuts

[RomneyLies]

2. It would mean only the richest could even afford to kill 20 babies in the future. n/t

[Union Scribe]

21. The rich have different ways of killing children

and adults, and animals, and the planet...

[Tuesday Afternoon]

37. +1

[Matariki]

3. So only the rich can go on murderous rampages.

Great idea.

[Tumbulu]

4. Good idea- keep them coming!

We need all sorts of good ones like this- thank you!

[RomneyLies]

6. Want to hear something even more beautiful about this tax?

Those people who love THIS gun:



Would pay an extra $230 minimum per round.

These are the weapons that mass murderers use high capacity massacre magazines in.

So, for just a thirty round magazine, that's a cost of $6900 just in gunpowder tax minimum for one thirty round magazine. If they go for what the Aurora shooter used, that's $23,000 in gunpowder taxes alone for a full load.

[Tumbulu]

11. This idea keeps getting better and better!

Thanks!!!!!

Now we have to figure out how to implement it. I think this is the time to start.

[BainsBane]

5. $10,000 per bullet

Chris Rock's idea is still a good one

[RomneyLies]

7. Then the nuts just reload

Tax gunpowder is the answer. Expensive gunpowder = expensive bullets even if you reload.

[BainsBane]

8. Once a bullet is in the body

You can't dig it out to reload. But whatever stops mass murder is fine by me.

[RomneyLies]

9. Anybody can pour lead into a mold for the bullet portion of a cartridge

Taxing lead wouldn't help much because it's used in lots of things.

Gunpowder is used in one thing, bullet cartridges.

Tax gunpodwer and you increase the cost of every round in every gun regardless of how you get to that round.

[BainsBane]

10. Okay

I have no expertise on the matter

[dmallind]

12. Tax sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal at $10 a grain?

It's not like it's a super-secret high-tech recipe.

You want to make fertilizers, fungicides, food presevers etc economically impossible?

[RomneyLies]

14. Smokeless gun powder is not something most people can cook up in their kitchen.

let alone some of the more exotic forms of gunpowder available these days.

Plus, the manufacture of gun powder is heavily regulated.

[doc03]

29. LOL Reminds me of this

Kirk vs. Gorn

[petronius]

13. Sounds clever, but there's zero chance that it would pass Constitutional muster

Consider this: if it would not be permissible to ban a given item or activity*, do you think any court would stand for an 'end-around' strategy (whether through taxation, or prohibiting a necessary precursor, or something else) that effectively banned the protected thing?

(* And in the case of firearms, as long as the Second Amendment exists this if is no if.)

[RomneyLies]

16. Worked on cannabis.

It was a completely legal product, but was taxed out of legality and that tax was upheld by the SCOTUS.

The precedent for such taxation is long and strong. Congress has ultimate taxation authority.

[petronius]

20. Perhaps, but there's no 420th Amendment to the Constitution

Congress has authority to tax, but like everything Congress does that power is subject to Constitutional limits. Using tax to effectively ban something that Congress is otherwise forbidden to infringe would not fly...

(And according to Wiki, the Marijuana Tax Act was ultimately deemed unconstitutional, albeit not for reasons that would be relevant to firearms.)

[RomneyLies]

22. The Congress taxes lots of products and gunpowder is just another product

Congress taxes tobacco, alcohol, and tons of other products.

The authority is there.

And it does nothing to stop you from buying guns. It doesn't even stop you from buying ammunition. It simply taxes that ammunition to pay for the consequences of things like what happened today.

Also, the problem with the marihuana tax act was that it required producers to have a stamp, then the government never issued the stamp. Doesn't apply here. You are free to buy and own gunpowder, you just have to pay the tax.

[petronius]

24. Forget about guns for a moment: do you really want Congress, or State

Legislatures, or any other government body, to be able to blow past the BoR simply by slapping a prohibitive tax on whatever the governmental agency happens not to like?

You're confusing two things here: yes, Congress can levy taxes. But no, Congress can not use exorbitant taxes to effectively ban things that Congress could not otherwise ban.

[RomneyLies]

26. It would serve to regulate the citizen's militia that has a right to bear arms well. n/t

[Zoeisright]

35. Yes. I do.

Gun nuts have this stupid idea that the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are inviolate. Times change. You can have as many fucking muskets as you want. That was the ORIGINAL intent of the 2nd amendment.

Other than muskets, ban guns. PERIOD.

[petronius]

36. Do you support this as a general proposition (what I really asked) or just in

the case of guns?

[justanidea]

15. This is stupid.

If you want to ban gun ownership, just come out and say it.

This wannabe sneaky crap is a waste of bandwidth.

[RomneyLies]

17. Own as many guns as you want, I don't give a shit.

If you want gunpowder, pay an extra $10/grain.

Congress has absolute authority to tax gun powder at any level they choose under Article 1 of the constitution. The SCOTUS has upheld this power on numerous occasions.

[justanidea]

18. Did they uphold poll taxes?

[RomneyLies]

19. The Congress never passed a poll tax

On top of that, poll taxes are not taxes on products.

We tax tobacco, alcohol, and numerous other items.

Gunpowder is just another product ripe for taxation.

$10/grain. It'll solve a lot of problems.

[justanidea]

23. Stop being silly.

The court would rule a tax that massive a defacto ban.

[RomneyLies]

25. No, they wouldn't

It's not a ban. A ban prohibits an item. A tax that is ruled a ban is a tax that provides conditions that cannot be upheld and becomes a de facto ban.

A tax of $10/grain on gunpowder does not prohibit gunpowder. Pay the tax, own the gun powder. No problem.

The taxes on other items are also high. Gasoline, petroleum products, tobacco (incredibly high) alcohol (also incredibly high) are all taxes on products and are 100% within th realm of the Congress.

$10/grain is simply a tax on a product. Want the product, pay the tax. It's that simple. No ban. No prohibition. simply a tax.

[justanidea]

28. The tax on gas or alochol isn't so high

that filling your tank or getting drunk requires you to remortgage your house. Comparing the gasoline tax to your proposed gun powder tax is absolutely absurd. If your proposed tax was a few dollars per box of ammo, then you might have an argument.

A 50 round box of 9mm ammo is about $12. Assuming an average 9mm round has 6 grains of powder (certain powders are hotter than others, and thus less powder is used per round, in case you didn't know) that would mean a box of 9mm would now cost $3,012.

That is a tax rate of 25,000%.

Find me another product with a tax rate that high.

Hell for me to go to the range once a month to practice (like I and most gun owners do) would cost me $180,000 per year.

Of course I dont even know why I'm bothering to debate all this, since this is obviously a troll post.

[RomneyLies]

30. Congress has the authority

I want the tax, so I will be pushing it with Congress. With any luck, people who want to see an end to the shit that happened today will join me.

Regardless, ownership of guns is about to be severely altered. There's no stopping it now.

[justanidea]

31. You can push the tax all you want

To be honest your time would be better spent trying to convert the moon into a giant gold nugget using nothing but psychic powers. That would probably have a better chance of success than a 25,000% tax on ammunition.

[RomneyLies]

32. you've certainly blown past ignoring this right to laughing at it

Next you'll fight it.

Then I win.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

27. One word. Fireworks.

Not as in it's going to cause some, but you forgot gunpowder is also used in them. The fireworks lobbyist would kill it before it goes anywhere.

There are certain nails you "shoot" into concrete which also need gunpowder.

Keep thinking outside the box, though. That's how things get done in the world.

[RomneyLies]

33. No need for fireworks

Fuck it. Tax that shit, too.

[Marinedem]

34. Back in my day,

Trolling meant something.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

38. ~

At Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:08 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Back in my day,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1987435

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Troll accusation

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:14 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: On the one hand, the post does suggest the OP is a troll. On the other hand, the OP does not really come across as a troll. Suggest the alerter just let it go and move on...
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: rotflmao
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Well, the OP is trolling.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Troll accusation and I don't think the OP is actually trolling.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.