I am sick and tired of the fucking paranoid gun nuts.

[we can do it]

We should be safe to go to movies, the mall, work or school without some whackjob blasting us to hell....there should be some sort of mental fitness requirement and a waiting period.

A right to bear arms does not mean the right to go out and immediately purchase them and ammo if you are pissed about something.

[MinneapolisMatt]

1. Completely agree.

We need the responsible and sane gun owners to stand up and take charge of this mess once and for all.

This has gone so far beyond "gun control". This is insanity.

[we can do it]

2. Amazing considering you need a license to get married and to drive a car.

but guns are readily accessible to any cookoo with cash....

[RoccoR5955]

117. NO! We need stronger gun laws.

And perhaps a Constitutional Amendment, preventing people from having automatic, and semi-automatic weapons.
When the Constitution was written, there were not these kind of weapons. Surely, if there were these type of weapons, there would not be such a general Second Amendment.

Yes, it will not prevent EVERYONE from getting these weapons, but it would make it harder.

And if you are so much for the "right to bear arms," where is my tactical, shoulder mounted nuclear device. IT'S THE SAME THING!

[AldoLeopold]

128. You forgot tanks

http://www.military-vehicles.us/military-tanks-for-sale.shtml

Cause if you don't ban 'em, people will buy 'em.

[we can do it]

131. Tanks, rocket launchers, drones one can never have enough firepower.

The communists could invade any minute now.

Or some kid might play music you don't like too loud, or someone might accidentally bump your wheel chair......

[mick063]

3. If heroin is outlawed only outlaws will have heroin

Heroin is an inanimate object. Heroin doesn't kill people. People kill people.

Legalize heroin.

[bunnies]

6. When was the last time a person killed a bunch of movie-goers or shoppers with heroin?

[Remmah2]

84. So it only counts if heroin users do mass killings?

Not one on one or pregnant heroin users?

[bunnies]

93. Gimme a break.

No one is running around injecting unsuspecting folks with heroin. FFS.
What an adult chooses to do to him or herself is none of my business.

[Democracyinkind]

138. Knives, bombs, now Heroin...

The gun nuts are on a roll.

I'll take my chances against a maniac wanting to inject heroin into me any day.

I'd rather not confront the gun-wiedling sort of maniac, though.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. Polly wanna cracker? nt

[we can do it]

31. This does not even deserve a response.

[mindem]

34. Guns don't kill people,

people use guns to kill people.

[mimi85]

97. A great line

and I'll have to remember it next time my next door neighbor goes on about guns. My grandfather and uncle used guns to commit suicide in the 50s which is totally different. People who want to kill themselves and are determined enough will figure out a way.

The people together (us) are stronger than the NRA. Instead of wringing our hands there we need to band together and demand some changes.

What's truly sickening is that this will be the story of the moment for a few days until something else comes along. Like a nominee for Sec of State, then THAT will be the story.

I've had it. I'm tired of crying, I'm tired of the fucking gun nuts, tired of the NRA, tired of our representatives having no balls. Just tired of it.

[we can do it]

108. I'm tired, too. Tired of the senselessness. Tired of the selfishness.

Tired of the hate and stupidity.

merry fucking christmas

[srican69]

109. that's why people should not be allowed to buy guns

Get it?

[we can do it]

132. What other uses are there for guns besides killing? NONE

I get it.

[srican69]

178. i was hoping Mindem would have something intelligent to say by now... guess not

[sharp_stick]

42. Damn but that's a dumb response

I wish people would at least make a valid attempt to engage their brains before typing.

[Recursion]

70. If you actually want fewer guns out there, the drug war should be a good warning

Come up with a law that actually makes guns harder to acquire than cocaine. If someone can think of one I'll probably be for it.

[morningfog]

156. That is the dumbest pile of shit on night full of dumb piles of shit.

[we can do it]

168. Stinking stupid

[myrna minx]

162. Why is this NRA tripe allowed here?

[rhett o rick]

4. The only people I know personally that "carry" are right-wing nut-jobs.

I am not inferring that all gun carriers are such, just not happy that even some nut-job gets to carry a gun.

Edit to clarify

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. My experience is very different, but I agree w/ your point about mental health.

My social circle is overwhelmingly liberal, and quite a few of the people in it have CCW permits (me included). But I also understand that the goth/industrial "scene" is a bit on the atypical side in matters like this...

In any case, I concur with our point about the potential for people with mental health issues to arm themselves. I'd love to see some sort of effective screening process in place...but I'm not sure just what form it could take. Mental healthcare in this country has been shamefully neglected for decades, to the point where we don't have the infrastructure to even properly care for those already identified as needing help. Just how this shambles of a system could accommodate the enormous task of accurately and effectively screening weapons purchases is beyond me. But I'd still like to see it...

[sarisataka]

15. The majority of carriers I know

are life long Dems. They too are against nut-jobs getting guns.

I do appreciate you recognizing not everyone who owns guns or carries fits the same basket.

[tblue]

44. I don't care. I blame them too.

Their insistence on this 'right' makes this shit possible. I don't care how they feel about other gun nuts. 6 of 1, half dozen of the others. They are one and the same to me.

[MrDiaz]

55. how do

you remove guns from criminals?

[sarisataka]

58. And that is exactly

why nothing gets done. It is a right, deal with it.
The choice is to either engage in discussion, and maybe actually reduce violence and deaths or bitch, throw out blanket accusations and lock the status quo in even tighter, ensuring another shooting...

Do you see you are as culpable as I? Probably more so as I am willing to engage in debate and consider positive action.

[Jonny]

129. Agreed

Those who still think everyone should carry, after todays school shooting, have blood on their hands,

X-marine or no.

They enabled this shooting, the previos ones, and alas, the many many more future ones unless we can politically defeat the gun enthusiasts.

Stand up and take credit gun owners, you did this.

Take some responsibility for your actions.

[rhett o rick]

81. I hang out with a fairly liberal crowd but none carry.

Those I know that carry are related. And the fact that people like them carry actually scares me. My father-in-law once shot his furnace with an "unloaded" gun. Must have been a miracle.

[sarisataka]

91. More people have been shot

with "unloaded" guns than any other.

There could be an educational component to firearms ownership that would pass muster, I just don't know what it is.

Unfortunately there is still no fixing stupid

[mikeysnot]

113. 5 days ago? Another "unfortunate accident" in Pen...

It wasn't an ACCIDENT, IT WAS NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. Didn't know gun was loaded.

[nickinSTL]

20. the people I know who carry

are gun nuts.

But not right-wingers.

One is...mostly apolitical, and just loves guns...so that's why he carries, more than anything.

The other (I have a small circle of friends - others I know may carry, but I don't know them well enough for them to tell me they do - plus, I live & work in IL, and carry isn't legal here...though looks like it will be soon) probably shouldn't be allowed to own guns, if mental health status were taken into account.


I'm a gun owner, and might get a permit once carry is legal here, but I would rarely if ever carry. My wife, however, probably will carry once it's legal. And neither of us is remotely right-wing.

[maxsolomon]

37. WHY will you carry?

As we are constantly reminded on DU, deaths from firearms are at a 40 year low, and this is attributed to the general decline in violent crime. I think even gang-related shootings are in decline. So if you're not likely to be assaulted on the street, WHY are you carrying?

The theoretical possibility that you could do something about a highly unlikely event.

2 places where firearm deaths are NOT declining:
1. suicides
2. amoklauf shootings

[nickinSTL]

63. honestly, I don't know if I ever will

I don't really feel the need to, and I rarely, if ever, have been in places where I would have felt better armed.

I don't rule out the possibility of carrying, but...I can't say that I'm likely to.


Not sure I have a good answer to your question.

[tblue]

49. Then you are part of the problem too.

Fuck your guns. I won't say fuck you because it's rude. If there was a nicer way to say it, I would. It's not personal. It's your promotion of guns. Fuck all of that.

[nickinSTL]

75. I'm part of the problem? Really?

Would you like to explain how?

Where, exactly, did I promote guns? Because I own a gun? Because I said I *might* carry a gun if it were legal?

Because I didn't advocate banning all guns?

I'm 100% in favor of increased gun control. Make it harder for people to get guns. Require training & licensing. I also have no problem with banning of "assault weapons" (although that term REALLY needs to be clearly defined in order to ban anything).

I'm not a fan of concealed carry, either. I think it's a bad idea. I also know that it will inevitably come to IL, as it has to every other state. I actually hope the state government manages to put significant roadblocks up to it being widely used, but I don't have a lot of hope of that happening. If it is legal, I'm just leaving the door open, chances are, though, that I won't carry. Never have seen a need to be armed before, don't really see it's likely in the future. If you see that as "promotion of guns", that's your prerogative, but that's quite a stretch, imo.

[friendly_iconoclast]

107. Umm, no. AFAI(or you)K, he hasn't shot up a school.

Are you and I, as computer owners, "part of the problem" with the dissemation of child pornography,
trade in stolen credit card numbers, or botmet operation?

Do you own a motor vehicle? If so, are you "part of the problem" of drunk driving?

Of course not. So why are guns different?

[GoCubsGo]

5. And, they'll claim Obama set this all up in 5...4...3...2...1...

Because, you know, he needs an excuse to take away our guns.

I am sick of these brain-washed bed-wetters, too.

[we can do it]

35. It's really pathetic. Hoarding guns and doomsday supplies.

This shit didn't accelerate when GWB was overstepping his bounds, but you put a moderate black man in office and paranoia escalates.

[GoCubsGo]

76. Yep.

Can't wait to see how they blame it on the President once their paranoid fantasy that he staged this gets shot down.

[dwigthreeD]

41. Watch the NRA

claim that if these kids had guns this wouldn't have happened. Fox News will be defending the shooter in 3....2....1......

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. We should be able to discuss the issue

Don't be too shocked if this gets locked.

[we can do it]

12. I know, and maybe if we keep bring up the issue it can eventually be considered.

[joeybee12]

9. Before this gets locked, let me say there is no such things as gun rights...

There are gun privileges...the second amendment is a relic of the colonial days...some day when this country matures we will realize that, but for now we are at the mercy of the NRA, cowardly politicians, and many people with an unhealthy fetish.

[sarisataka]

13. Speaking of slippery slopes

What other parts of the Constitution are relics of colonial days and we can just ignore? Even better, what can the Republicans ignore when they are in charge again?

Were I ridiculously wealthy, I would take the Patriot Act to SCOTUS as a class action suit on behalf of the citizen's of the USA

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well, at the risk of angering you

I see you were a marine. That was the intent in colonial times. All owners were members of the local militia.

Oh don't worry, outside of dusty tomes in history books none speaks of it. So it's not a relic, just the modern day interpretation.

So you want to be part of the militia, by all means, what part of ORGANIZED, in the words, are you missing?

Sooner or later people in this country WILL DEMAND change...I'll start with licensing every gun owner.

Fire away, I won't answer...gun rights fetishists are impossible to talk to..oh and before you say it, I am a gun owner...I just don't buy into the paranoia that they are gonna come and take my precious away...for starters it is not precious.

[sarisataka]

32. The text states

Regulated not Organized.

I currently belong to two militias- the Unorganized, per the Dick Act and the retired militia.

I won't get mad or fire away, I agree that licencing would be very effective, after the fact if nothing else. I just recognize it is not going to happen anytime soon so would rather focus on productive action that can be completed.

I also do disagree with the notion the we can just 'ignore' what ever part of the Constitution we happen to disagree with. If there really is such support, there is a process to Amend so the 2A could be repealed or amended. I might disagree with what comes out and be ready with an 'I told you so' but would accept it as legal.

[maxsolomon]

40. The Dick Act

how appropos.

[sarisataka]

48. I get a chuckle off that as well n/t

[we can do it]

43. Regulated - Control or supervise by means of rules and regulations.

You have been trained professionally. Possibly you've seen what happens when guns are not respected.

Why would you even think that just anyone can run out and stockpile weapons without proving some kind of responsibility?

[sarisataka]

53. Yes I have

to both sadly.

Regulated did have a different meaning in the 18th century that did not necessarily mean rules and regulations. That said, I think there are acceptable steps that can be taken, within the word and spirit of the 2A, that the majority of gun owners would support.

The rhetoric of we have to do something, ban them, why should anyone own... blocks dialogue as effectively as the NRA-ILA goons.

[we can do it]

57. Citizens used to actually educate and think for themselves in the 18th century, too.

They didn't have faux news to get them all ginned up with lies. They emphasized responsibility.

I have no problem with responsible gun owners. I am thoroughly disgusted with those who preach proliferation without rules and responsibility.

[sarisataka]

68. Uh oh, we are getting close to agreement

Educating both sides and those neutral is a good first step. Unfortunately they will all go kicking and screaming to hang on to their preconceived notions.

The news keeps getting worse... so sad, I pray for all of those kids and their families

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. The problem with gun fetishists is that regulated means organized

In colonial times they all had to attend a monthly drill. They had to be encouraged with food and drink many a times, but.

These are the things gun, my precious, lovers...forget.

I won't answer to this person in particular, no use mostly.

[sarisataka]

66. Cool, I get another ignore

good discussions I have had on this day of extreme tragedy and sadness. Too bad you don't want to actually do something and look at what might reach a consensus and help.

Still I wish you well

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. No, you are not on ignore

I simply will not waste my time with you on this subject.

It is a waste of my and your time. I prefer to pressure my elected officials who need to grow a spine, enact an assault weapons ban and close the gun show loophole, just for starters.

I am all for licensing gun owners, that includes me...

[sarisataka]

98. Well we agree on

the goal, just not the means.

I will support expanded background checks, tighter screening and maybe an educational component. I will also support more accessible mental health and better social programs to go after the root causes of daily violence.

[rbixby]

99. So would you consider an average of 2 mass shootings and 20 people killed a year

just the cost of doing business?

[sarisataka]

100. Not at all

but it seems the reality at this time.

I accept that there will always be violence but if we go after the root causes with the vehemence we spent beating the horse on guns, we could actually accomplish something.

I think we can tighten our gun laws within the Constitution but I believe our major efforts could be better spent elsewhere

[Generic Other]

175. The thing about privileges is that when they are abused

the authorities take them away from everyone. Technically, we could revise the Second amendment or do away with it altogether if we chose.

I suppose for those who own guns this is the issue. Being penalized for the bad behavior of others in the group makes you feel under attack. I can see that.

While I am not inclined to want to amend the Bill of Rights, I do want to see reasonable measures enacted to reduce this sort of violence.

[godai]

27. Just the 2nd amendment. Repeal it! n/t

[sarisataka]

33. That would be the proper procedure

Go right ahead.

[godai]

36. We don't need your acquiescence. n/t

[sarisataka]

46. Never said you did

but if you don't like a part of the Constitution, you have to amend it, not just ignore it as some propose

[thucythucy]

154. Actually, all we really need is one less right wing

wackadoodle Supreme Court justice.

As recently as 1939 the Supreme Court unanimously agreed with Soliciter General Robert H. Jackson that the Second Amendment right to bear arms is "not one which may be utilized for private purposes but only one which exists where the arms are borne in the militia or some other military organization provided for by law and intended for the protection of the state."

This was the accepted Constitutional standard, until the 1970s when Nixon appointed Rehnquist, and Reagan and Bush tipped the Court to the far right with Scalia, Thomas, etc.

So what we need is one less justice Scalia or Thomas or Alito.

And as a good Democrat on Democratic Underground I'm sure you will agree with that, yes?

[sarisataka]

159. I have not seen that quote previously

before today I would have said, and did, that the SC would not completely reverse itself. Now I am not so sure.

The ruling you cite could open the door for greater restrictions.

And yes I would like a much more lrft, or at least center SC make up

[SomethingFishy]

69. Not ignore, adjust. The Founders were smart enough to realize

that times will change as will technology so they created the Constitution to be... adjustable.

When the 2nd amendment was written, if you tried to shoot someone and missed, by the time you got your gun reloaded the guy could have run up and stabbed you 20 times. Now you can shoot dozens of people before you have to reload.
It's just a matter of adjusting for the times. I don't own guns but have many friends who do and I enjoy shooting once in awhile. That said I am all for some sort of gun control.
I don't believe people should be allowed to have a tank, or a nuke, or even a mounted 50mm in front of their house. I believe most reasonable people would agree there has to be some limits set somewhere. What the limits are can be a matter of debate, but we can start at not owning a nuke or a tank and work our way down from there


Oh and if you win the lotto and decide to sue over the Patriot Act make sure you post it here, I for one would be happy to join in and do anything in my power to help. That shit is so bad half the people who voted for it don't even know whats in it.

[sarisataka]

87. I can agree

while I do support RKBA I also strongly support that with rights come responsibilities.

I do not support that we say- the is an old law, let's ignore it. If we believe it needs to change, then we change it. We have what I consider reasonable limits on what we can own but think the distribution process can be better regulated.

If the 2A were repealed, I would not like it, but accept that as the law and any restrictions are therefore possible. I do think that much can be done within the constraints of the 2A as it stands.

[morningfog]

157. Be afraid! Love the gun, damn the dead.

[Daniel537]

17. And who decides what's a relic of the colonial days and what's not? n/t

[we can do it]

71. The people of the USA. Women and blacks can now vote, slavery is illegal.

[neverforget]

145. When do we realize that the weaponry and tactics of the Revolution are far different

from today? When do we take that into account?

[tblue]

51. Thank you.

Good point.

[MoonRiver]

11. Agree, but nobody in our federal government is going to cross the NRA.

And the NRA wants to arm EVERYBODY, crazies included.

[we can do it]

14. True, did you notice everytime this happens, someone invaiably.....

...suggests that everyone should be armed.
Just what we need everyone pulling out their guns and shooting at the same time - yikes.

[MoonRiver]

22. Yes, I have noticed that.

But a little fact checking will prove that the more people are armed, the more people are killed. Of course, facts are not our government's forte.

[Fumesucker]

25. It's the inevitable conclusion from the statistic that shows gun violence decreasing with more guns

Inevitable for some people anyway, personally I don't think it's valid but I know people who if you asked them would tell you that if everyone was armed all the time then gun violence would be near zero.

I haven't hung out enough in the gungeon to know if this argument has actually been made there but it's implied every time that statistic is trotted out.

[maxsolomon]

45. "gun violence" needs to be parsed.

are suicides from guns declining in number?

amoklauf killings like today's?

or is it violent assaults? robberies?

[Myrina]

62. Earlier this year, in Indy, at a gun shop ...

.... someone was 'renting' a hangun for the target-yard or whatever they call it and he got pissed at the clerk, and shot him in the leg. Afterwards, on the news - I SHIT YOU NOT - the gun store owner said "We have no way of knowing what nuts are running around out there nowadays..."

... BUT HE STILL WANTS TO SELL AND RENT GUNS TO ANYONE with the cash Omfg.

My head just about exploded.

[we can do it]

73. You should see the line up to get into the monthly "gun show" nearby.

of course, if you have cash, you walk out with all the guns and ammo you can afford.

[we can do it]

16. "at least" 27 dead says CBS. LITTLE KIDS. When will it be enough?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Well, this might shock people

Nah, if the teachers were armed, and the kids could have concealed....I expect that argument.

[we can do it]

21. Some of these tough guy supporters need to work in an ER or ambulance.

Let them see first hand what happens to people, their family and friends.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I know...

I remember a 12 year old gang member in my rig, surprised how painful it was.

[Care Acutely]

30. AMEN. Come on over to MY HOUSE for a few shifts

I fucking hate guns.

[Motown_Johnny]

24. I think the nut in the Mall stole his weapon

so all those safeguards would do no good.


Assault weapons and handguns need stronger regulations.

Hunting weapons should be singled out and expressly defined as not being part of the problem. People who just throw "Guns" into one category are not helping the debate.

[we can do it]

28. How does one steal a gun from someone who has it properly and responsibly stored?

[AtheistCrusader]

38. With a torch.

In fact, I store my cutting torch heads IN my safe, so if someone breaks into my house, they don't find handy tools in the garage that might make it easier to steal my guns.

There are other ways to crack into a safe.

[we can do it]

50. How often does this happen? How does someone know you own guns?

It would have to be someone you know.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. Nope. Profiling.

Lots of things can give you away. In any case, the master bedroom closet is usually the first place they check. There are people who have made a career out of stealing guns from people.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/two_men_charged_with_stealing.html
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/firearms-378605-home-amormino.html

There was a married couple doing it not long ago in the news. House after house.

[we can do it]

101. This isn't a common occurance, and the couple was caught.

[AtheistCrusader]

125. Yeah, but what was the tally?

Something like 20+ houses hit. Most of those guns 'moved on' even if they were caught.

I think it's more common than you think. One of my co-workers got hit earlier this year. They got everything. Liberty replaced the safe, and the police were able to catch them at a local motel, still with all the guns, and he got them back.

[Motown_Johnny]

123. 2 people can carry out most gun safes

and worry about opening it later


besides, handguns are more of a problem and those tend to be in smaller cases which are easily stolen



also, many people will just keep a handgun in a nightstand drawer, or some other easily accessible location


guns are not hard to steal

[we can do it]

141. So apparently having guns isn't much of a deterent is it?

[Motown_Johnny]

103. well maybe you could use a gun... or ...

maybe all those laws about how to properly and responsibly store a gun need better enforcement

[we can do it]

143. So apparently having guns isn't much of a deterent is it?

[Trunk Monkey]

83. RE: Hunting weapons should be singled out and expressly defined as not being part of the problem

So a hunting rifle like this one

http://www.basspro.com/Remington-R15-VTR-Predator-Carbine-Rifle/product/10218476/

should be singled out and expressly defined as not being part of the problem?

The AR platform is one of the most popular hunting rifles ever designed

[Motown_Johnny]

102. ARs are assault rifles

I know plenty of hunters and nobody I have ever met hunts with a .223.




http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Assault-Weapons.htm

^snip^


In general, the AWB defined any firearm with a detachable magazine and at least two of certain other characteristics as an assault weapon.

For rifles, those characteristics included:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Grenade launcher
Flash suppressor

For shotguns:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
A capacity to hold more than five rounds

For handguns:

Threaded barrels made to attach a barrel extender, handgrip or flash suppressor
A barrel shroud that can be used as a handhold
Weight of at least 50 oz. when unloaded

[Trunk Monkey]

118. You need to go back and follow my link the R-15 is a hunting rifle

I know a boatload of people that use AR type rifles for varmint hunting

[Motown_Johnny]

120. Sorry but by definition it is an assault weapon

the fact that some gun nuts use assault weapons on "varmits" is irrelevant .

Read the law (as it once existed).

Your boatload of people can use a simple .22 for huntin' varmits just as easily as a .223.

[Trunk Monkey]

127. Re: by definition it is an assault weapon

how, exactly does one define an "assault weapon"

How about if my boat load of people use a Mini 14 for varmints? (I'd like to see you use a .22 on a coyote BTW)

[PavePusher]

122. Nope, thats an invented term with basically no particular meaning.

Plenty of folks hunt with AR-15-pattern rifles. 5.56/.223 is fine for many types of game, and you can get uppers in just about any caliber you can imagine. If you need something bigger than the over-all length of the 5.56mm, you can step up to a AR-10 for 7.62/.308 length cartridges (longer action).

None of the features you mention make a firearm unsuitable for hunting. Most states limit magazine capacity to 3-5 rounds for hunting, and such magazines are widely available for AR rifles. One notable exception is California, which allows 10-rounders for almost everything. Odd, that.

[Motown_Johnny]

148. It was written into the law. It had meaning while the assault weapon ban was in place

Hunting with an assault rifle does not make it a hunting rifle.

Those things that I mentioned were not things that I mentioned. They were the law.


All you have is opinion. I have the letter of the law.

[PavePusher]

153. The label had nothing to do with functionality or use. It is an invented label....

with the express intent of confusing and scaring people.

The proof that it works lies in the fact that you are using several terms with different definitions interchangeably.

If I use a rifle for hunting, it's a hunting rifle. No matter what your biases about appearance are.

[Motown_Johnny]

158. If I use a butter knife as a screwdriver it is still a butter knife

If you use an assault rifle for hunting it is still an assault rifle.

I am quoting the Assault Weapons Ban which was the law for ten years, until Pres. Shrub let it expire. You have nothing but your own biases to quote.

You are simply wrong.

[PavePusher]

180. Shrub did not let it expire, Congress did.

Shrub said he'd sign it if Congress passed it.

Would you care to try again?

[Motown_Johnny]

179. You have it backward. A thing is what a thing is and your misuse of it

does not alter reality.

What an assault weapon is has been defined. Killing things other than humans with an assault weapon does not alter that weapon into a hunting rifle.


You are wrong (and possibly delusional).




http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022001706

^snip^

.223 AR type assault weapon

Those are the words of the State Police Lieutenant doing the presser.

I think we have passed an important marker.

Oh and fair warning, you want to argue this is not an assault weapon...well, go argue with the state police.




Here is one new today


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-shootings-alabamabre8bf0fj-20121216,0,7889676.story


^snip^

Man with assault rifle shot dead by police after Alabama triple murder



BIRMINGHAM, Alabama (Reuters) - A man armed with an assault-style rifle and suspected of killing three men in a domestic dispute was shot dead by police after a car chase and shootout that left an officer wounded, marking a second incident of deadly gun violence in Alabama in two days, officials said on Sunday.

The two shootings on Saturday in Alabama came a day after 20 children and six adults were shot to death by a gunman who went on a rampage with a military-style rifle at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut and then killed himself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. If your hunting weapon was a single shot

You'd have a point...but folks are using AR-15

[Motown_Johnny]

105. ARs are assault rifles

see my other post with the same title please

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Not by the legal definition currently at work

I agree with you and legally the AWB is high time to bring it back, but semi guns are not considered assault, even if that controlled mode is more accurate than spray and pray of full auto.

AAS legally they are very legal to own.

[frylock]

110. so then stiff penalties need to be imposed on those incapable of securing their guns..

if you have a gun stolen, and it is used in a violent crime, I really do believe some penalty should be incurred.

[Motown_Johnny]

119. Why does it need to be used in a crime to be punishable?

That is out of the control of the person who had it stolen.


And just exactly who is going to report their gun stolen once you pass a law making it a crime to have your gun stolen?

[Care Acutely]

26. The second amendment is STUPID in a modern era.

Owning SLAVES was a "RIGHT" too when that was written. It's NOT AN INFALLIBLE DOCUMENT FROM GAWD. It was WRONG about this.

[godai]

29. Absolutely. n/t

[Trunk Monkey]

86. I wonder if the Syrian rebels would agree with you? NT

[we can do it]

96. We don't live in syria, btw.

[Trunk Monkey]

130. I don't understand your point

do you somehow think that America (the country that gave rise to Richard, Nixon, GW Bush, Fred Phelps, Jim Jones, David Duke, Randy Weaver, Hoyt and the Aryan Nation) will never , from now till the end of the world, have a tryant in power?

[frylock]

135. what the hell kind of defense is your gun going to be against a gunship..

rocking a 50 cal and hellfire missles?! back away from 'red dawn' ffs.

[Trunk Monkey]

142. I don't think the Tali ban got the memo

Neither did the Syrian rebels

[Democracyinkind]

170. Tali ban?

Classy move there, Cletus.

[Trunk Monkey]

171. I thought it was kind of weird too but that's how spell check edited it.

Classy move there, Cletus.

Says the guy who resorts to throwing insults when he can't overcome the argument

[Democracyinkind]

172. cool story, bro...

I wasn't at all concerned with your "argument".... just wanted to point out that you're the first DUer I ever saw spelling Taliban that way. Hope it was spell check, really do.

[Trunk Monkey]

173. tali ban

Taliban

Tali ban

Tali-ban

As a matter of fact it was the DU spell checker that did it
try it for your self

But seriously, can we discuss the issue instead of hurling insults

[we can do it]

144. It's like talking to a rock, isn't it?

[_ed_]

151. I wonder if the dead kids would agree with you

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Well regulated militia

In colonial times gun owners had to attend drill. The Founders did not start life with a professional military. The militia, that well regulated part, was to be raised in time of emergency, whether it was an Indian raid, or later that militia formed the core of the Continental Army.

That is the background. The courts have changed the interpretation and in my view ignored the well regulated part. This means in modern days, the army, the coast guard, the guard...and paramilitaries in service of the state, aka the police.

[maryellen99]

39. Me too

I am also sick of the gun nut doomsday preppers as well. What the hell do you need 20 guns for?? Zombies??

[ErikJ]

47. One year moratorium on all gun manufacturing.

Millions of guns rolling out of the factories every month has to stop.

[tblue]

52. I consider everyone who is pro-gun a gun nut.

They're mental. They need psych help not weapons!

[slutticus]

90. What does "pro gun" mean?

Why must everything be reduced to one extreme or another? That's why nothing ever gets done through politics. Fools on both sides of the issue (yes, both sides) completely idealizing a certain mindset, wether it is realistic or not.

1. Let's arm everyone, even teachers and pilots --> Fools

2. Let's ban all guns so that we can all finally be safe --> Fools

[MrDiaz]

54. that is fine

as long as you can explain how to successfully remove all weapons from criminals!

[we can do it]

65. Easy access and proliferation is what is being discussed.

[BobbyBoring]

56. If all those kids had guns

the shooter might have been stopped

[liberalmuse]

60. Let the fucking gun nuts have their own little shithole.

I've had enough of this shit. I want guns BANNED. The rest of us have the right to walk around shopping and sending our children to school without crazed fuckers with firearms killing them.

[oneshooter]

152. And what have you done toward this goal?

Do you give support to anti gun organizations? Have you filed or supported petitions in favor of this goal?

[SHRED]

61. violence gets a green light

Just turn on the TV.

[we can do it]

115. Also first person shooter video games

[NCTraveler]

64. You can.

"We should be safe to go to movies, the mall, work or school without some whackjob blasting us to hell."

[we can do it]

80. Tell that to the kids who died at school this morning. IGNORE

[NCTraveler]

89. Very simple thinking.

If you went to the mall right now would you fear for your life? If you went to a movie would you fear for your life?

The answer is no and that was the whole premis of your op.

[Panasonic]

72. The Second Amendment has to be questioned as viable.

It should rewritten Right to bear arms if one is sane enough and gets a psychological check every three months PER GUN. Monthly for more than three guns. Daily for more than five guns.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. A license, every five years

Like Canada, works...that includes mandatory gun safety tests and intense mandatory background checks.

Will the bad Guys still get them? Do bears shit in the woods?

Here are two steps before even licenses, assault weapons ban and close the gun show loophole. That will go a long way to be honest

[Taverner]

77. Fuck gun rights.

The Second Ammendment goes on beyond that whole "shall not be infringed" part - where it spells out a National Guard.

NOT every psycho's right to buy military grade weapons!

[we can do it]

88. Thank you.

[Flatulo]

79. This lifelong gun owner would like to make a modest proposal or two.

I am willing to disarm if everyone else will.

1. Repeal the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Gun ownership should be a priveledge, not a right. Like driving.

2. Immediately outlaw ownership or possession of all firearms except for single-shot rifles and shotguns. Possession of a firarm or more than 5 rounds of ammunition for said firearms would be punishable by life imprisonment with no chance of parole. If you can't defend your home or bag a deer with five shots, you probably need some marksmanship training anyway.

3. To address the problem of criminals/gangbangers/RKBA holdouts who will never voluntarily turn in their guns, make possession of a firearm without proper licensing punishable by life imprisonment with no chance of parole. It may take a few generations, but the supply will eventually dry up.

4. Immediately halt all domestic manufacture and importation of firearms. The manufacturers can shift their production capacity to military grade weapons.

5. All gun owners who turn in their weapons will be compensated by a formula TBD.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I am willing to let people own more than five rounds

But in my ideal world, that license (why more than five rounds) would require qualifying on the range and a mandatory safety class. Like driving licenses, every five years would be appropriate.

I would not remove the second thought, just emphasize the well regulated...as in military forces.

[PavePusher]

126. Ah, Prohibition III. This time, it'll work, right?

"TBD"? Determine it before any agreement, thanks.

[Flatulo]

136. That's a facile analogy. People can't make guns in their bathtubs or grow

them in their backyards. Every gun destroyed is one less opportunity for violence.

It's time to disarm. I'm beyond sick over this almost daily slaughter.

[PavePusher]

150. Actually, you can make them at home with a few bench-top machine tools available at Harbour Freight.

In the Kyhber Pass, rather less equipment than that.

[get the red out]

82. Absolutely

We can't even have a real conversation about guns in this country. We even have Churches that promote guns like they are the Bible.

[we can do it]

140. Guns for gawd- who would jesus shoot?

[redstatebluegirl]

92. My Dad Had a Gun

on the farm that he used to mainly scare away predators who were after our livestock. He rarely used it, it was locked in the office in the barn, was never loaded and we could get a huge beating for even touching it. There is such as difference between someone who hunts, owns a farm or ranch and someone who wants an AK47. The only thing you hunt with an AK47 is people....The argument has to separate those assault weapons out of the picture.

I live in an open carry state. The other night we went to a restaurant and there was a guy openly carrying his weapon, I asked to leave and told the owner why. The true NRA gun nuts believe somehow I am safer living like this. I do not feel safer....

[we can do it]

104. OMG kindergartners. WTF is wrong with this country?????

[underoath]

106. Im sick of wacked out humans who will kill no matter how they do it.

people are fucked up. there is no way to stop this.


this will always continue to happen until people are not crazy anymore.

[we can do it]

111. True, but how many can one kill efficiently and quickly without guns?

[underoath]

112. are they trained with a knife? they could kill more people than

some of these crazy people who shoot people and only kill 2 or 3 people.

[sharp_stick]

116. Do you get all of your really

really stupid talking points directly from Wayne LaPierre or is there another NRA douchnozzle that forwards them so you can more efficiently distribute the latest marching orders?

[we can do it]

134. What about throwing stars or chainsaws....how about anthrax or kooties?

[frylock]

137. so you would choose a knife over a gun in battle?

is that what you're saying?

[Democracyinkind]

139. So you'd rather confront the gun-wielding maniac than the knife-wielding maniac?

Cool story. The average maniac is neither very good with guns nor with knives. It comes down to probability.

[AlexSatan]

149. At a kindergarten?

Pretty many. I guarantee a person could take out at least 20 with a knife. Easily. In a theater, it would be easy to take out at least 10.

Obviously it is disgusting to even think about but, from a cerebral/planning standpoint, it wouldn't be hard. And I won't spell out here how to do it. It goes without saying I have never nor would ever wanted to do such a thing.

The problem is people not guns. It doesn't take many people going on a rampage make the numbers look bad but the only other option is to confiscate all guns which is neither feasible nor Constitutional (and no I don't think the Constitution needs amended).

Unfortunately I don't have an answer as to how to deal with the "people" problem. Humanity has had mass millers, usually in the form of serial killers, who didn't use guns for a LONG time. Those who do it all at one are just more sensational (and horrible). Getting rid of guns would not stop that.

[Skittles]

167. how I despise people who say NOTHING CAN BE DONE

but I understand your sentiment and have felt it myself - we have for too long allowed the nutcases to be viewed as NORMAL in America - time to take our country back

[Callisto32]

114. There already is.

18/21 years, and "not adjudicated mentally incompetent."

Or are we guilty until proven innocent?

[we can do it]

133. Wow, well that makes all the difference in the world. Thanks.

and it's working very well, too.

Pass a mental competency test, gun safety and responsibility test of some sort. Not just be a certain age and haven't killed yet - sheesh

[AlexSatan]

147. I'm a big 2A supporter

but I still think there should be a waiting period. If you can't plan far enough ahead to get a gun that you can't abide by a waiting period then you are doing it wrong.

I just went and ordered a Springfield 9mm (they had to special order it) and were really apologetic I had to wait 4-5 days. I was king of surprised there wasn't a waiting period for that or for my son to buy his M4. About an hour for the background check and then out the door he could have gone (he's actually picking it up tomorrow since he had to go to work).

I think a week would be fine and still be in perfect accordance with the 2A.

[toby jo]

121. Just to lighten the mood

Beck's got these people buck naked and hanging onto their ankles for dear life.

I've got neighbors who are armed to their eyeteeth. They showed us pics of them and their nephews at the range with their weapons, shooting things up. We're all agonna die! Dontcha know?

So, 12/21/12 coming up, I told my friend I'm going over there just to ping stones at their windows in the middle of the night. He's gonna take one of his houndstooths and leave it on their front porch with "you're next" attached to it.

We figure they'll piss themselves to death.

(Course we won't, but it's funny) They can't think for themselves at all.

And I'd pay some real good money just to watch these jerkoffs piss themselves to death. What a treat.

[apocalypsehow]

146. "Now I am merely curious just how long I can string you along" - a Gungeoneer just now to me,

having a whole boatload of fun arguing about how great guns are on this tragic day:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=336902

They simply have no sense of shame or common human decency.

[we can do it]

160. They are just disgusting.

[apocalypsehow]

161. +1,000. n/t.

[we can do it]

163. Oh dear god, is that idiot still around?

[apocalypsehow]

164. Yep - and still peddling NRA talking points day & night on DU - *even in the midst of this tragedy*

[Skittles]

166. so you mean rightwing hack?

he's a fucking bad joke

[Ruby the Liberal]

155. Agreed. Thanks for saying it. nt

[Skittles]

165. sounds so reasonable but....

look at all the gun nuts squealing

[we can do it]

169. It's becoming apparent that they value guns more than people.

[G_j]

174. why should anyone need to be able to fire a hundred rounds in a short time?

I suppose it's their patriotic duty to the Constitution.

[Lint Head]

176. Paranoid gun nuts don't even know 'why' the 2nd Amendment was written.

It has been hijacked by gun lobbyists to instill fear into people the same way evangelists scare people.They both use fear tactics as a business model. One says send us money to fight Washington or they will take your 2nd Amendment rights away and the other says send us your money or you'll go to Hell. The fear of death is a powerful tool in the hands of people who are cynical, down right evil and driven by greed.

[xchrom]

177. Du rec. Nt