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Pototan

(2,264 posts)
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 12:28 AM Nov 28

Why I feel so discouraged

You see, in 2016 I was up for the fight. The Trump MAGAts were (and still are) racists. The Muslim ban made me angry, and I demonstrated against it. I defended my position and lost some friends. Then the demonization of immigrants, both documented and undocumented. Being married to an immigrant, I took it personally and became estranged from some family members (mostly cousins or their spouses). Then there was George Floyd's murder, the BLM demonstrations and the NFL players taking a knee. On this one, I didn't watch an NFL game with my friends for a year, because we always argued right after the National Anthem. Then the Dobbs decision. I really didn't argue this one, my female relatives did, but I always took the side of "choice".

Then there was November 5, 2024. Over 20% of black men voted for Trump. A majority of white women voted for Trump, including more than 25% who were pro-choice. Harris came in third in most Muslim and Arab communities. 45% of Latinos and a majority of Latino men voted for Trump.

As a retired white, 72-year-old male living in another country, I look at these numbers and feel like a fool. I know I was right to support the people who were losing rights, being denied civil rights or being treated in inhumane ways. But if large segments of the population that are either directly and negatively impacted by Donald Trump's policies or are among the people treated in such a way, vote for that no-good piece of shit, it really wears my sympathies down. I will not face the wrath of MAGATs because of my race or gender or citizen status or my religion, but only because of the way I think. I think I may stand down, for now and rejoin the fight when the people who actually are getting fucked figure it out.

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why I feel so discouraged (Original Post) Pototan Nov 28 OP
Well, the only chains we can stand are the chains of hand-in-hand struggle4progress Nov 28 #1
Many immigrants come from very conservative cultures JI7 Nov 28 #2
yup Skittles Nov 28 #5
Also the invasions of immigrants who supposedly took over entire towns and apartments. kerry-is-my-prez Nov 28 #11
yes, repukes literally advertise their disdain for immigrants Skittles Nov 28 #12
Liberal Caucasian are more liberal than the black and hispanic jimfields33 Nov 29 #28
That's a poor excuse Pototan Nov 28 #8
It's not an excuse. They are still as shitty as anyone else JI7 Nov 28 #15
Then we agree Pototan Nov 29 #22
This article was posted a few days ago. CrispyQ Nov 29 #31
Im not sure your conclusion is correct- shouldnt you redouble on what you believe instead of giving up? Blues Heron Nov 28 #3
I'm afraid that the communities at risk Pototan Nov 28 #7
Not speaking for the op, but my take on that UniqueUserName Nov 28 #17
But you dont write off the whole community like the OP says, is my point Blues Heron Nov 28 #18
it's the power of sexism and propaganda Skittles Nov 28 #4
Standing down ain't the do UTUSN Nov 28 #6
No one can make you feel... littlemissmartypants Nov 28 #9
Taiwan may be invaded by China, some day Pototan Nov 28 #10
Just wait for 2026 when the Dems take over both the house and senate. kerry-is-my-prez Nov 28 #13
That's what I'm hoping Pototan Nov 28 #14
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 28 #16
I'm really struggling too. Mike 03 Nov 28 #19
I'm SMDH that so many have forgotten how horribly he handled the pandemic. CrispyQ Nov 29 #33
Don't know why you throw black males in there when 80% voted the other way. People need to stop trying to blame black Solomon Nov 28 #20
Trump recieved a larger share of Black men Pototan Nov 29 #21
Seems like you are looking for a reason to give up - and you found one! congrats! Blues Heron Nov 29 #27
Look, all I can really do is.... Pototan Nov 29 #29
Some black males are susceptible to propaganda Keepthesoulalive Nov 29 #32
In my over 50 years of voting, I engage in a very simple concept: elocs Nov 29 #23
You certainly get my point Pototan Nov 29 #24
I feel the same Fish700 Nov 29 #25
She is a woman. They would not vote for a woman. coffeenap Nov 29 #26
OK, that's why I say, "Fuck 'Em, until they wake up." Pototan Nov 29 #30
Another thought PJMcK Nov 29 #34

struggle4progress

(121,095 posts)
1. Well, the only chains we can stand are the chains of hand-in-hand
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 12:34 AM
Nov 28

Keep your eyes on the prize and hold on

JI7

(91,259 posts)
2. Many immigrants come from very conservative cultures
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 12:44 AM
Nov 28

The transgender issue was a huge reason for why many of thar people voted the way they did.

kerry-is-my-prez

(9,531 posts)
11. Also the invasions of immigrants who supposedly took over entire towns and apartments.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 03:30 AM
Nov 28

They really think that their kids could have their sex organs cut off and sent off while they are in school. And then the Reps were saying that immigrants were taking over towns and apartments and they kept saying they’re coming to your town.

Skittles

(161,464 posts)
12. yes, repukes literally advertise their disdain for immigrants
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 03:33 AM
Nov 28

THEY EAT YOUR PETS!!!

it fucking disgusts me that ANY immigrant would vote that vile POS

 

jimfields33

(19,382 posts)
28. Liberal Caucasian are more liberal than the black and hispanic
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:37 AM
Nov 29

Communities. Saw that on morning Joe this morning. We are around 75 percent. Blacks 54 percent and Hispanics 43 percent. I was surprised..

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
8. That's a poor excuse
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 01:09 AM
Nov 28

They voted for a guy and his supporters who hate them. But the excuse for supporting their tormenters is that Trump also hates people that they hate.

As I said, they can wake me up when they figure it out.

CrispyQ

(38,946 posts)
31. This article was posted a few days ago.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:54 AM
Nov 29
Americans Have One Very Strange Cognitive Bias
Or: How I learned to stop worrying and love The People.

Jonathan V. Last
Nov 22, 2024

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/americans-have-one-very-strange-cognitive

snip...

YouGov asked a series of questions on “What percentage of Americans do you think are [fill in the blank]?” with the [blank] being all sorts of qualities: black, gay, Christian, left-handed, own a passport, etc.

The results were hilarious. Here are some of the percentages that Americans (on average) think their fellow citizens are:

Transgender: 21 percent
Muslim: 27 percent
Jewish: 30 percent
Black: 41 percent
Live in New York City: 30 percent
Gay or lesbian: 30 percent


more...
These perceptions do not square with any version of observable reality. Here the numbers as they actually exist in the real world:

Transgender: 1 percent
Muslim: 1 percent
Jewish: 2 percent
Black: 12 percent
Live in New York City: 2 percent
Gay or lesbian: 3 percent


I don't know how a country whose population think 30% of the nation's people all live in NYC can survive!!

Blues Heron

(6,314 posts)
3. Im not sure your conclusion is correct- shouldnt you redouble on what you believe instead of giving up?
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 12:50 AM
Nov 28

Some people who should know better fell for the brainwashing so you give up? What? Dont give up !

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
7. I'm afraid that the communities at risk
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 01:01 AM
Nov 28

have decided to find out the hard way. I'm up for fighting against the bigots and racists. I'm not up for trying to convince the victims that Trump's not their guy. If this is what they want, who am I to argue with them.

UniqueUserName

(319 posts)
17. Not speaking for the op, but my take on that
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 09:32 AM
Nov 28

Is. . . Pragmatically, I have to evaluate the difference between enabling bad behavior of a person to determine whether they're bad behavior is due to Stockholm Syndrome or merely having shitty ideas.

I'm with the OP on this. I am not going to enable a person who values hate over cooperation, even if that person is oppressed. Apparently they haven't hit rock bottom yet.

littlemissmartypants

(26,492 posts)
9. No one can make you feel...
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 02:33 AM
Nov 28

Anything without your consent.

I'd be more worried about a Chinese invasion of Taiwan if I lived in your general area. Thank goodness you could move back here if that were to occur.

❤️

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
10. Taiwan may be invaded by China, some day
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 02:59 AM
Nov 28

and the Philippines may be impacted by that event. This is a possible event that the Filipinos can't control and certainly did not choose. On the other hand, here's what I know for sure: A plurality of Americans voted on election day for Donald Trump, and he will be sworn in as the 47th President of the United States on Jan. 20, 2025.

I'd rather be here than there.

And keep in mind, that there won't be a safe place in the world once Trump is President. Not South America, Africa, Southeast Asia and certainly not Europe. Just like Hitler, the world was not safe anywhere, but it was far worse in Germany.

kerry-is-my-prez

(9,531 posts)
13. Just wait for 2026 when the Dems take over both the house and senate.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 04:31 AM
Nov 28

By 2026, a good number of people will have realized what a shit show the Repubs are.

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
14. That's what I'm hoping
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 04:54 AM
Nov 28

It pains me to have to say this, but I'm afraid that some people will have to learn the hard way. The very hard way.

Response to Pototan (Original post)

Mike 03

(18,008 posts)
19. I'm really struggling too.
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 09:52 AM
Nov 28

Despite wanting to feel "fighting spirit" I run into constant reminders that 2024 isn't really anything like 2016. IMO, this is far more serious, the consequences far greater, the implications both of what happened on November 5 and what is projected to happen far more difficult to overcome by actions we can actually take.

The risk-reward analysis for resistance in 2025 will be much different than it was for me eight years ago too.

It's hard to even draw inspiration from our side. This morning I heard on Canadian talk radio that Barack Obama might be planning something helpful, but that internet search only led to some stories in which one of our alleged "Magadonors" (somebody I've never heard of--Jim Morgan) trashing Kamala Harris, saying she should "never" be able to run for office again because her campaign ran over budget (I mean who is this fucking idiot?!) and claiming Obama didn't want her to run in the first place. I am so sick of this shit. So it's never-ending demoralization amidst a firehose of falsehoods and betrayals.

But I'm a work in progress and my position may change.

CrispyQ

(38,946 posts)
33. I'm SMDH that so many have forgotten how horribly he handled the pandemic.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:28 AM
Nov 29

Quotes from the Con on Covid, taken from press conferences, interviews, tweets, and rallies.

January 22: “No. Not at all. And ?? we’re — we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

January 24: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

January 30: “Now we’re working very strongly with China on the coronavirus — that’s a new thing that a lot of people are talking about. Hopefully it won’t be as bad as some people think it could be. But we’re working very closely with them and with a lot of other people and a lot of other countries. And we think we have it very well under control.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

February 28: And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that.

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I never said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, I’m not. No, we’ve done a great job.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine-tuned plan at the White House for our attack on Corona Virus.”

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

March 9: “The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the Corona Virus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, ‘The risk is low to the average American.’”

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.”

March 10: ”It’s really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen. The consumer is ready, and the consumer is so powerful in our country with what we’ve done with tax cuts and regulation cuts and all of those things. The consumer has never been in a better position than they are right now.”

March 17: “I’ve always known, this is a real — this is a real — this is a pandemic. I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic. All you had to do was look at other countries…no, I’ve always viewed it as very serious. It was no difference yesterday from days before. I feel the tone is similar, but some people said it wasn't.”

March 31: "I don't think I would have done any better had I not been impeached," Trump said at his daily coronavirus news conference from the White House. "And I think that's a great tribute to something — maybe it's a tribute to me — but I don't think I would've acted any differently, or I don't think I would've acted any faster."


JFC.

The asshole is going to be president again.

Solomon

(12,501 posts)
20. Don't know why you throw black males in there when 80% voted the other way. People need to stop trying to blame black
Thu Nov 28, 2024, 01:59 PM
Nov 28

males for this shit. This is a white people problem. I'm getting tired of it.

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
21. Trump recieved a larger share of Black men
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 02:14 AM
Nov 29

than any Republican Presidential candidate since 1960. This is after George Floyd and BLM. That's why.

Trump's percentage should have gone down, not up. Police immunity, as Trump supports, will have a greater negative affect on Black men than anyone else. That's why.

Black men supporting Trump by record numbers was not the only reason, but it sure was part of it.

Racist, bigots and misogynists will automatically gravitate to Trump. They are mostly white. I'm ready to fight them, but not if a disproportionate amount of their victims join them.

Blues Heron

(6,314 posts)
27. Seems like you are looking for a reason to give up - and you found one! congrats!
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:23 AM
Nov 29

We need everybody to confront this coming regime. Its easy to give up from 10,000 miles away, but those of us here in this actual country simply do not have that option. We must fight on.

Pototan

(2,264 posts)
29. Look, all I can really do is....
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:46 AM
Nov 29

...donate money (which I did in every election in the past 30 years) and mail in my overseas ballot. I'm retired. I did my part for 50 years. I'm not giving up because we lost. I'm pausing because too many of the people we're fighting for have joined the ranks of the morons. When they wake up, I'll send money again.

Keepthesoulalive

(985 posts)
32. Some black males are susceptible to propaganda
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:23 AM
Nov 29

If we could get 80% of the white female vote when their healthcare is on the line we could make a difference. If every black male of voting age voted for the democratic candidate it would not have made a difference. Please leave them alone and stop using them as the problem. Black folks of both sexes voted for our candidate. Please get your white brothers and sisters to join us to fight for a better nation.

elocs

(23,192 posts)
23. In my over 50 years of voting, I engage in a very simple concept:
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 05:25 AM
Nov 29

I always vote for the Democratic candidate. Always. And I always vote, no excuses. No voting for 3rd party candidates. Just doing those things may have well defeated Trump both times he won.

Where did the nearly 7 million votes that Biden got against Trump go that Harris didn't get? Because with those, Harris would have won. I have yet to hear a good explanation about that.
And 20% of Black men voting for Trump is insanely stupid. Democrats: it seems we have met the enemy and it is us.

I am 72 and thought I would cruise through a nice retirement. Instead I must survive 8 years of Trump, after which the nation may never be the same.

Fish700

(148 posts)
25. I feel the same
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:58 AM
Nov 29

Voters already lived through a first Trump administration then lived through Biden's remarkable job leading the US out of the chaos caused by that and Covid. They then decided to vote against the team that was going to continue that job so they could go back to no toilet paper and abandoning NATO. You can't fix stupid.

coffeenap

(3,231 posts)
26. She is a woman. They would not vote for a woman.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:21 AM
Nov 29

We are stuck with (horrible) male leadership because enough people cannot "allow" themselves to be governed by a woman. And, until we change that here in the US with the support and leadership of men in all population groups, it'll continue.

PJMcK

(23,266 posts)
34. Another thought
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:48 AM
Nov 29

I feel discouraged because our loses fat outweigh our wins.

The list of loses is impressive:

Dobbs decision
MT Greene reelected
Boebert reelected
Gaetz reelected
Trump reelected
Cases against Trump dismissed
Congress & Senate in Republican hands
Rule of Law abolished

The wins, if you can call them that, pale by comparison.

That’s why I’m discouraged.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why I feel so discouraged