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genxlib

(5,925 posts)
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:03 PM Nov 2024

One phrase I have barely seen mentioned this week is COVID 19

Personally, I think we were fucked from the day COVID stepped into our lives.

Even at the simplest level, it was directly responsible for the inflation that ended up being the biggest head wind that we could not overcome.

But even beyond that, I think we massively underestimated the impacts that this period has caused. Like all large traumas, there are lingering after affects that will infect our psyche for years.

In my opinion, the MAGA movement was waning until COVID happened and it found new life in the resistance to COVID policies. The whole "bootstraps" crowd was perfectly happy to endanger entire communities as long as their personal "freedoms" were not hampered. They got new energy, new talking points and an economic environment to use a bludgeon for recruiting.

Perhaps the worst part of it all is how it all aligned with the rise of the RW media machine and radicalizing algorithms in social media. Entire segments of the internet became untethered from reality just when people were cooped up in their homes with little more than the internet to keep them occupied. To say they took advantage of it is an understatement.

So here is the controversial part that you aren't going to like. In my darkest hours over the last few days I have had two thoughts that keep coming back to me.

1.) Sometimes the right policy isn't a winning policy. In my heart, I know we did our best to protect our society from a deadly disease. But our efforts demanded a level of public cooperation and mutual concern that does not exist in this Country. We tried anyway. I think most people held on through the first year. But going into the second summer and fall, I think we lost people. The Country had covid fatigue and we were the ones talking about vaccine mandates and closing another year of school. Right or not, it was not popular and fed many of the narratives that MAGA have been driving ever since. Meanwhile, deSantis opened back up early during his campaign and got re-elected Governor easily. I am afraid that we ended up taking all of the lingering resentment and fueled the populist revolt in the process.

2.) I wonder if it would not have been better to lose in 2020. I always worried that it would be a difficult time to govern. It was pretty easy to see that things were going to be challenging. In the stock world, they call it "catching a falling knife". We inherited a Presidency that had at least 2 years of pain built into it. Even at the time, I figured that it might very well be so painful that re-election would be near impossible. It was a thankless job. If Trump had won, he would have been damaged and dealing with the economy that we got stuck with. It would have sucked for us. But in the end, it would have sucked less than the Trump 2.0 version that we are about to see now with no guardrails.

Just my two cents.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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One phrase I have barely seen mentioned this week is COVID 19 (Original Post) genxlib Nov 2024 OP
Congress, particularly (R) side, made it all worse with STIM Bills bucolic_frolic Nov 2024 #1
On the contrary, those were GOOD things. alarimer Nov 2024 #8
Totally disagree. Inflation was too much money chasing too few goods. bucolic_frolic Nov 2024 #9
Oh, I saw Covid mentioned, in the context of how fucked we are now that RockRaven Nov 2024 #2
Hard to disagree. intrepidity Nov 2024 #3
You don't see/hear, "nobody is above the law" any more. nt Hotler Nov 2024 #4
Because it's true in theory EnergizedLib Nov 2024 #7
Trump would likely have won in 2020 without covid EdmondDantes_ Nov 2024 #5
I don't disagree. genxlib Nov 2024 #11
I think Biden won because of COVID alarimer Nov 2024 #6
I don't disagree with you genxlib Nov 2024 #10
The Trump regime was also completely unrealistic about the pandemic. keep_left Nov 2024 #12
I think Fauci would be best served by just retiring quietly genxlib Nov 2024 #15
Yeah, you're right--someone else should shoulder that responsibility. keep_left Nov 2024 #16
This hurts EnergizedLib Nov 2024 #13
I can't say I know for sure that MAGA was waning at that time genxlib Nov 2024 #14
So, if we lose in 2020 EnergizedLib Nov 2024 #17

bucolic_frolic

(51,241 posts)
1. Congress, particularly (R) side, made it all worse with STIM Bills
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:15 PM
Nov 2024

They focus on spending and not the effects of spending. Rethugs structured it so they could raid the plan and plunder from it. They injected whatever it was - $800 Billion? $1.2 Trillion? - into a shrinking economy that was panicked. No one thought about inflation? Food flew off the shelves, no matter the price because people, some of them, had the cash. They send STIM to people with good paying jobs. STIM for every child. Some benefits were doubled.

 

alarimer

(17,146 posts)
8. On the contrary, those were GOOD things.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:27 PM
Nov 2024

Taking them away was the bad thing. Inflation was, by and large, due to corporate profiteering.

bucolic_frolic

(51,241 posts)
9. Totally disagree. Inflation was too much money chasing too few goods.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:35 PM
Nov 2024

Manufactured by Congress.

RockRaven

(17,552 posts)
2. Oh, I saw Covid mentioned, in the context of how fucked we are now that
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:18 PM
Nov 2024

the first human case of this new bird flu has been found in humans, in Canada, just in time for TCF to botch the government response and kill a million of us, or more.

intrepidity

(8,332 posts)
3. Hard to disagree.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:20 PM
Nov 2024

Although, in fact, *so* many more of us would not be around today--and speaking only for myself--it may well have been better, and for the reasons you describe. At least I could have gone out cursing a microorganism rather than my countrymen.

But, alas, until someone invents time travel, here we are.

EdmondDantes_

(595 posts)
5. Trump would likely have won in 2020 without covid
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:22 PM
Nov 2024

The economy was doing fine (at least on the superficial level not the underlying flaws of high inequality and costs of education and health care etc).

 

alarimer

(17,146 posts)
6. I think Biden won because of COVID
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:24 PM
Nov 2024

Trump's mishandling of it basically sealed the deal. Trump will mismanage any disaster. Lots of people will die, in some fashion under him. If it's a large disaster (disease, hurricane, whatever) they will lose again in 2028. I'm not hoping for it, but it's all but guaranteed to happen.

The other thing is there was a missed opportunity. There were the legitimate beginnings of a true social safety net, with all the job and housing protections and money given to people. And then those programs ended. They should have been permanent.

genxlib

(5,925 posts)
10. I don't disagree with you
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:40 PM
Nov 2024

In the absence of COVID, Trump probably would have won. Such is the nature of the incumbency. It usually takes a bad turn of events (economic or otherwise) to lose.

And the larger point there is that both times, incumbents lost. (with of course an * for treating Harris as an incumbent)

I think a better managed first year could have saved Trump during that first year.

I am not sure there was any saving to be had from years 2-3 because the good will was gone, the resistance was in full swing and the economic impacts hit hard. Whoever was President at that time was going to carry that burden. in my revisionist history, I was just wondering if it would have better in the larger scope of history if Trump had carried that albatross through a second term.

keep_left

(2,964 posts)
12. The Trump regime was also completely unrealistic about the pandemic.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:52 PM
Nov 2024

Anyone remember how Trump wanted churches open for Easter, which was literally about a month after everything was shut down? Pandemics take years to resolve, and Trump is out there at his moronic press conferences promising miracles to his gullible followers. By the way, that also had a nice little ancillary effect of further radicalizing the already-radicalized churches in this country when they found out they wouldn't be able to reopen in a month. "OMG, we're all being persecuted!"

I really hope that Fauci or someone else from the public health agencies will eventually speak out on what actually happened during the pandemic, because you just know that they were under extreme pressure from the Trump regime. It's the only good explanation for why none of the professionals in those agencies spoke out more at the time about Trump's total botching of the pandemic response in the US.

genxlib

(5,925 posts)
15. I think Fauci would be best served by just retiring quietly
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:47 PM
Nov 2024

There are going to be calls to investigate and even prosecute him.

I know its crazy but the anti-vax crowd think he is a criminal.

If I were him, I would just stay off the radar and enjoy the retirement he has earned.

keep_left

(2,964 posts)
16. Yeah, you're right--someone else should shoulder that responsibility.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:58 PM
Nov 2024

By the way, there have already been calls from the MAGA chuds--elected MAGA chuds like MTG--for Fauci to be prosecuted. But you probably already knew that. They threaten everyone, even when the case is immediately thrown out--or never even given legal consideration. These people are just bullies, backed up by a bullying far-right media machine.

EnergizedLib

(2,607 posts)
13. This hurts
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:02 PM
Nov 2024

We should have messaged COVID bring a part of the inflation and inflation being global and we had a soft landing coming out when everything opened back up again.

How do you know the movement waned? I never got that sense and had that feeling we were on our way to another loss until he bungled COVID so badly, then that led to January 6 and everything else. COVID showed how badly he could handle a crisis, while Jan. 6 showed he could be the causation of one. Why people forget this, I don’t know.

What COVID, and this election, has shown us, is that so many selfish people people exist yet in this country - didn’t want to lock down, didn’t want to wear masks, for their safety or for others. They care about their freedoms, while all being all too happy to deny them to others. They can tell us what to do, just don’t you dare tell them what to do. It sure fed a lot of conspiracy theories.

And theocracy? Corruption? Abortion being taken away and given to legislatures and women at risk of death due to sepsis? Who cares, as long people have cheap gas and eggs? But that rose because of COVID causing the global supply chain to collapse. So many people care only about themselves, not of others. I would argue such selfishness in many Americans had carried over to the Ukraine war.

If we lose in 2020, how much additional damage is done? How many more die? How much further reshaped are our courts? What other comes, scandals, distractions are there?

And when would have been the right time to win an election? What if we won Tuesday, but we looked back in a future election year and say it would’ve been better if we had lost in 2024?

It sure is painful to lose now, and it looks very bleak at the moment, to put it mildly, but what’s to say we’re not celebrating a victory in a future election year?

Because I can tell you, I was thinking to myself on Tuesday that if we won, we’d be cooked in 2028. If we still have elections 2-4 years from now, things look good for us.

genxlib

(5,925 posts)
14. I can't say I know for sure that MAGA was waning at that time
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:43 PM
Nov 2024

It just feels a lot more pervasive now than it did back in 2019. It might just be recency bias or just my little neck of the woods, but that is what I sensed and I just offered it as an opinion.

If nothing else, it is always easier to be loud and obnoxious as an opposition party. There is little responsibility and lots of opportunity to cast blame and spin narratives. That alone gave MAGA power to regenerate in the 2020-2024 time frame.

As for the rest of it, they are just my thoughts about whether this was inevitably the outcome for whomever got stuck with that particular destructive piece of history. Your questions are just as valid and we will never know the answers to any of the alternate histories.

My thought process was pretty linear. "This was always going to be a disaster for whomever won in 2020 so would it have been better if we hadn't." The potential implications would be infinite and completely theoretical so I was just musing as I try to make sense of it.

EnergizedLib

(2,607 posts)
17. So, if we lose in 2020
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:08 PM
Nov 2024

Maybe we win Tuesday, but maybe we lose four years or eight years from now. This hurts now, but you never know what kind of victories we could be celebrating in 2026/2028.

We’re not going to win every election and we’re not going to lose every election. Damage will be done, but we’ll be able to make our impact again, too.

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