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LymphocyteLover

(7,068 posts)
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:41 AM Nov 10

Robert Reich on "Lessons from the Election"-- I think he's spot on

Friends,
A political disaster such as what occurred Tuesday gains significance not simply by virtue of who won or lost, but through how the election is interpreted.
This is known as The Lesson of the election.
The Lesson explains what happened and why. It deciphers the public’s mood, values, and thoughts. It attributes credit and blame.
And therein lies its power. When The Lesson of the election becomes accepted wisdom — when most of the politicians, pundits, and politicians come to believe it — it shapes the future. It determines how parties, candidates, political operatives, and journalists approach future elections.
There are many reasons for what occurred on Tuesday and for what the outcome should teach America — about where the nation is and about what Democrats should do in the future.
Yet inevitably, one Lesson predominates.
Today, I want to share with you six conventional “lessons” you will hear for Tuesday’s outcome. None is or should be considered The Lesson of the 2024 election.
Then I’ll give you what I consider the real Lesson of the election.

None of these are The Lesson of the 2024 election:

1. "It was a total repudiation of the Democratic Party, a major realignment."
Rubbish. Harris would have won had there been a small, less than 1 percent vote shift in the three main battleground states. The biggest shift from 2020 and 2016 was among Latino men. We don’t know yet whether Latino men will return to the Democrats; if they don’t, they will contribute to a small realignment.
But the fact is America elected Trump in 2016, almost reelected him in 2020, and elected him again in 2024. We haven't changed much, at least in terms of whom we vote for.

2. "If the Dems want to win in the future, they have to move to the right. They should stop talking about 'democracy,' forget 'multiculturalism,' and end their focus on women’s rights, transgender rights, immigrants’ rights, voting rights, civil rights, and America’s shameful history of racism and genocide. Instead, push to strengthen families, cut taxes, allow school choice and prayer in public schools, reduce immigration, minimize our obligations abroad, and put America and Americans first."
Wrong. Democrats shouldn’t move to the right if that means giving up on democracy, social justice, civil rights, and equal voting rights. While Democrats might reconsider their use of “identity” politics (in which people are viewed primarily through the lenses of race, ethnicity, or gender), Democrats must not lose the moral ideals at the heart of the Party and at the core of America.

3. "Republicans won because of misinformation and right-wing propaganda. They won over young men because of a vicious alliance between Trump and a vast network of online influencers and podcasts appealing to them. The answer is for Democrats to cultivate an equivalent media ecosystem that rivals what the right has built."
Partly true. Misinformation and right-wing propaganda did play a role, particularly in reaching young men. But this hardly means progressives and Democrats should fill the information ecosystem with misinformation or left-wing propaganda. Better messaging, yes. Lies and bigotry, no.
We should use our power as consumers to boycott X and all advertisers on X and on Fox News, mount defamation and other lawsuits against platforms that foment hate, and push for regulations (at least at the state level for now) requiring that all platforms achieve minimum standards of moderation and decency.

4. "Republicans cheated. Trump, Putin, and election deniers at county and precinct levels engaged in a vast conspiracy to suppress votes."
I doubt it. Putin tried, but so far there’s no sign that the Kremlin affected any voting process. There is little or no evidence of widespread cheating by Republicans. Dems should not feed further conspiracy theories about fraudulent voting or tallying. For the most part, the system worked smoothly, and we owe a huge debt of gratitude to election workers and state officials in charge of the process.

5. "Harris ran a lousy campaign. She wasn’t a good communicator. She fudged and shifted her positions on issues. She was weighed down by Biden and didn’t sufficiently separate herself from him."
Untrue. Harris ran a good campaign, but she had only a little over three months to do it. She had to introduce herself to the nation (typically a vice president is almost invisible within an administration) at the same time Trump’s antics sucked most of the oxygen out of the political air. She could have been clearer about her proposals and policies and embraced economic populism (see below on the real lesson), but her debate with Trump was the best debate performance I’ve ever witnessed, and her speeches were pitch perfect. Biden may have weighed her down a bit, but his decision to step down was gracious and selfless.

6. "Racism and misogyny. Voters were simply not prepared to elect a Black female president."
Partly true. Surely racism and misogyny played a role, but bigotry can’t offer a full explanation.
--
Here’s the real Lesson of the 2024 election:
On Tuesday, according to exit polls, Americans voted mainly on the economy — and their votes reflected their class and level of education.
While the economy has improved over the last two years according to standard economic measures, most Americans without college degrees — that’s the majority — have not felt it.
In fact, most Americans without college degrees have not felt much economic improvement for four decades, and their jobs have grown less secure. The real median wage of the bottom 90 percent is stuck nearly where it was in the early 1990s, even though the economy is more than twice as large.
Most of the economy’s gains have gone to the top.
This has caused many Americans to feel frustrated and angry. Trump gave voice to that anger. Harris did not.
The real lesson of the 2024 election is that Democrats must not just give voice to the anger but also explain how record inequality has corrupted our system, and pledge to limit the political power of big corporations and the super-rich.
The basic bargain used to be that if you worked hard and played by the rules, you’d do better and your children would do even better than you.
But since 1980, that bargain has become a sham. The middle class has shrunk.
Why? While Republicans steadily cut taxes on the wealthy, Democrats abandoned the working class.
Democrats embraced NAFTA and lowered tariffs on Chinese goods. They deregulated finance and allowed Wall Street to become a high-stakes gambling casino. They let big corporations gain enough market power to keep prices (and profit margins) high.
They let corporations bust unions (with negligible penalties) and slash payrolls. They bailed out Wall Street when its gambling addiction threatened to blow up the entire economy but never bailed out homeowners who lost everything.
They welcomed big money into their campaigns — and delivered quid pro quos that rigged the market in favor of big corporations and the wealthy.
Joe Biden redirected the Democratic Party back toward its working-class roots, but many of the changes he catalyzed — more vigorous antitrust enforcement, stronger enforcement of labor laws, and major investments in manufacturing, infrastructure, semiconductors, and non-fossil fuels — wouldn’t be evident for years, and he could not communicate effectively about them.
The Republican Party says it’s on the side of working people, but its policies will hurt ordinary workers even more. Trump’s tariffs will drive up prices. His expected retreat from vigorous antitrust enforcement will allow giant corporations to drive up prices further.
If Republicans gain control over the House as well as the Senate, as looks likely, they will extend Trump’s 2017 tax law and add additional tax cuts. As in 2017, these lower taxes will benefit mainly the wealthy and enlarge the national debt, which will give Republicans an excuse to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid — their objectives for decades.
Democrats must no longer do the bidding of big corporations and the wealthy. They must instead focus on winning back the working class.
They should demand paid family leave, Medicare for all, free public higher education, stronger unions, higher taxes on great wealth, and housing credits that will generate the biggest boom in residential home construction since World War II.
They should also demand that corporations share their profits with their workers. They should call for limits on CEO pay, eliminate all stock buybacks (as was the SEC rule before 1982), and reject corporate welfare (subsidies and tax credit to particular companies and industries unrelated to the common good).
Democrats need to tell Americans why their pay has been lousy for decades and their jobs less secure: not because of immigrants, liberals, people of color, the “deep state,” or any other Trump Republican bogeyman, but because of the power of large corporations and the rich to rig the market and siphon off most of the economy’s gains.
In doing this, Democrats need not turn their backs on democracy. Democracy goes hand-in-hand with a fair economy. Only by reducing the power of big money in our politics can America grow the middle class, reward hard work, and reaffirm the basic bargain at the heart of our system.
If the Trump Republicans gain control of the House, as seems likely, they will have complete control of the federal government. That means they will own whatever happens to the economy and will be responsible for whatever happens to America. Notwithstanding all their anti-establishment populist rhetoric, they will become the establishment.

The Democratic Party should use this inflection point to shift ground — from being the party of well-off college graduates, big corporations, “never-Trumpers” like Dick Cheney, and vacuous “centrism” — to an anti-establishment party ready to shake up the system on behalf of the vast majority of Americans.

This is and should be The Lesson of the 2024 election.
What do you think?

72 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Robert Reich on "Lessons from the Election"-- I think he's spot on (Original Post) LymphocyteLover Nov 10 OP
Met him in Cambridge many years ago at the beginning of the Tadpole Raisin Nov 10 #1
Do you have a link? I couldn't find the article walkingman Nov 10 #2
I just did an internet search on the first paragraph: phylny Nov 10 #3
It was in FB LymphocyteLover Nov 10 #57
I entered the workforce in 1980 so I liked this line ... LSparkle Nov 10 #4
Me too. nt Raastan Nov 10 #5
We were set up to fail with Reagan economics. nt LittleGirl Nov 10 #11
Paycheck to Paycheck Kev80 Nov 10 #16
For 40 years now, those coming into the workforce have dealt with this ... and your statement was an "Oh Snap!" KPN Nov 10 #54
Non college educated people will be a problem kansasobama Nov 10 #6
I concur Prince99 Nov 10 #10
Agree - except for you last statement walkingman Nov 10 #20
Make economics compulsory in High School kansasobama Nov 10 #64
Disagree. Elessar Zappa Nov 10 #13
There are plenty of factory jobs still Farmer-Rick Nov 10 #23
Agree - I think we should bring back more apprenticeship type programs in the various trades. walkingman Nov 10 #24
Yes! GenThePerservering Nov 10 #33
FACTS!! FACTS lrucks1952 Nov 10 #30
This is a recipe for the death of the Democratic Party (or whoever adopts this position.) LAS14 Nov 10 #66
Everything he says drmeow Nov 10 #7
Agree kansasobama Nov 10 #9
I think Reich is brilliant and I have read many good articles by him Diamond_Dog Nov 10 #8
It's not about convincing Trumpers. Elessar Zappa Nov 10 #14
Who are those 40%? Raven123 Nov 10 #41
So, in the end, it really was stupidity William Seger Nov 10 #12
Exactly This Timewas Nov 10 #15
But "the system" will be changing rapidly to fascism William Seger Nov 10 #18
No nihilsm, please. No "will anything make any difference", please. It's self-destructive. Forward. . . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Nov 10 #19
The world is on a self-destructive path, and we just trashed the last chance to avoid it William Seger Nov 10 #32
I understand. It IS dark & difficult now. Will be brighter later. Break is ok. But you might find support on DU Bernardo de La Paz Nov 10 #63
Yeah, once you put in a dicktater Farmer-Rick Nov 10 #25
Don't shift ground, but increase efforts to help the non-college educated. Reich makes lots of good points Bernardo de La Paz Nov 10 #17
Nope. This is the same thing they said in 2016, and we learned unequivocally that it wasn't true. It still isn't. Scrivener7 Nov 10 #21
Kamala outperformed Biden's polling and favorability by alot andym Nov 10 #34
Polls? LisaL Nov 10 #35
Yes indeed--Polls were more accurate this cycle and predicted the outcome andym Nov 10 #37
Agreed. Misogyny explains it. MatthewStLouis Nov 10 #36
I agree with you. We had a disaster, when after a debate, everybody turned on Joe, including his own party. LisaL Nov 10 #47
Mexico just got a female president. She is also Jewish. delisen Nov 10 #60
he says that was part of the problem but not the biggest problem LymphocyteLover Nov 10 #58
Yes. I saw. I disagree. It's the biggest problem. And the economy is definitely A problem, but it's not why she lost. Scrivener7 Nov 10 #59
I think Reich should pull his head out and see daylight orangecrush Nov 10 #22
Hey! I know! Lets pander to racism and misogyny too! paleotn Nov 10 #27
Here is some wisdom that we all need to understand. It comes from DUer soldierant: Scrivener7 Nov 10 #55
Reich, as usual, uses too many words to point out the obvious -- TBF Nov 10 #28
Well, Obama wasn't a female. LisaL Nov 10 #49
Of course, that's why I noted "Did it help that he was male?" TBF Nov 10 #50
Ironically, "Latino men" may have a hard time returning to the damn country much less the Democratic Party. paleotn Nov 10 #26
I agree with him on all points -misanthroptimist Nov 10 #29
I agree with much of Reich's views on how Dems have handled the economy Raven123 Nov 10 #31
And that used to be the party of FDR. Lunabell Nov 10 #45
I'm posting this in the bdamomma Nov 10 #38
I agree with nearly all of Reich's points dlk Nov 10 #39
I wouldn't rule out cheating - TBF Nov 10 #67
I totally disagree with "There is little or no evidence of widespread cheating by Republicans." dickthegrouch Nov 10 #70
Rec- and reserving my place to come back later. Off to work NBachers Nov 10 #40
K&R n/t Alice Kramden Nov 10 #42
I would switch number 6 evemac Nov 10 #43
I absolutely agree. Lunabell Nov 10 #44
I do not want to hear from Obama, Michele, Oprah etc every 4 years Unless bonniebgood Nov 10 #46
kicking this for visibiity bdamomma Nov 10 #48
I want to refer you all to the book PoindexterOglethorpe Nov 10 #51
8% of Americans will understand it, another 8% support it. bucolic_frolic Nov 10 #52
Not a Reich fan. He and some other Democrats helped give us trump in 2016 by bashing Obama and Clinton efforts Silent Type Nov 10 #53
I hear you. He is more of a Bernie bro type LymphocyteLover Nov 10 #56
Reich shouldn't call out voters who are crying foul Seasider Nov 10 #61
40+ years of trickle down economics has poli-junkie Nov 10 #62
The best analysis yet, by far. nt LAS14 Nov 10 #65
The problem I see ... AncientOfDays Nov 10 #68
Did the Democrats deregulate finance all by themselves? Martin Eden Nov 10 #69
Reich appears to support tariffs in the OP MichMan Nov 18 #71
As I recall, Republicans were more fully on board with this than Democrats Martin Eden Nov 18 #72

Tadpole Raisin

(1,561 posts)
1. Met him in Cambridge many years ago at the beginning of the
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:50 AM
Nov 10

Clinton administration. Great guy. Insightful.

And I like that he is not talking about blame so much as analysis.

The first is a waste of time, though in the early post election stages of anger and frustration, understandable.

The latter should have us working together to address the issues listed point by point.

If we don’t disintegrate into finger pointing it can be done.

LSparkle

(11,868 posts)
4. I entered the workforce in 1980 so I liked this line ...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 08:57 AM
Nov 10

“The basic bargain used to be that if you worked hard and played by the rules, you’d do better and your children would do even better than you.
But since 1980, that bargain has become a sham.”

My entire working life I’ve thought it was my fault I haven’t done as well as my parents. IT’S NOT.

Kev80

(36 posts)
16. Paycheck to Paycheck
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:06 AM
Nov 10

I remember telling my mum that I lived paycheck to paycheck. ‘96 or ‘97 and she was shocked. Our parents had money in savings account. She’s 84 and she still tells me to put money in my savings account. I wish I could. We all scratch by. I bought into the work hard bullshit too.

KPN

(16,212 posts)
54. For 40 years now, those coming into the workforce have dealt with this ... and your statement was an "Oh Snap!"
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:14 PM
Nov 10

moment for me. The notion that this dynamic would scar self-esteem in that specific way never, ever occurred to me. But you are absolutely right. The difference between my wife and I, and our three children -- all of whom are educated -- is we were lucky enough to be born in the 1950's when the basic bargain truly existed. Hard work and dependability used to pay off, almost if not always. Now, not so much, and way too often.

Fortunately, we've had many discussions with our adult kids over the years wherein we have bemoaned the demise we've witnessed of the middle class over the past 25-30 and now 45 years ... and how things got this way. So our kids don't blame themselves; sadly though, they do blame "boomers" ... which makes me "ouch" a bit.

kansasobama

(1,555 posts)
6. Non college educated people will be a problem
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:11 AM
Nov 10

First, not getting a college education is not going to work in the new world. If we insist on this, we will fall behind nations. This is a thing of the past. You better get educated.

Second, the solution is affordable education which Republicans do not allow.

Third, antidote to less college education is immigration of college educated people from other countries. MAGA wants to stop this

We are sort of fucked unless we stop this fantasy of upliftment of non-college education. It is not happening. They have to get educated and government has to find a way to make it affordable. If we say this, we are branded as elites. No, we are not. I am a middle class retired person with college degree.

Prince99

(69 posts)
10. I concur
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:21 AM
Nov 10

If the 2/3 of the population is not college educated then we need to uplift these people and put policies in place for the younger folks to have opportunities. Simply using grades and money approach to enter college is not a successful outcome for us as Dems. Should we start tapping into the 2/3 doing it from DC is not the best approach. We have to step into these communities and let them know we are here, something we failed to do and the other guy did well.

walkingman

(8,667 posts)
20. Agree - except for you last statement
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:28 AM
Nov 10
"something we failed to do and the other guy did well."


I agree we failed to do much specifically but T* did nothing in his first term (that I remember). This time he aired the grievances of the working class but offered no solutions. I have to assume that the Dems were held responsible for the post pandemic inflation simply because we held the reins of government.

And as far as college....I do think we need more college grads in America. But we need to make American colleges more challenging.

My experience with 3 degrees from different colleges is this - we treat most freshmen as a 13th grade. Either pre-req courses because of not qualified for college level classes or a mass of liberal art classes that are usually nothing more than what should be taught in HS.

Students should have some sense of where they’re going in their academic lives. That doesn’t mean you need your exact career path nailed down. Say you like math and science. You know that’s what you want to study, but you’re not sure of a specific discipline. Your first year you’ll take math and science classes across a variety of disciplines. Then, in the second year, you declare a specific area of study.

Campus life - once you eliminate most of the gen ed requirements of a liberal arts program, you’re not moving from building to building. You should spend most of your time in the building that’s home to your field of study. The building becomes your campus. The students in your program become your community. After all, connections are so important in your career - you get to know people with common interests.

Make it challenging beyond just attending classes - the idea is to LEARN. It shouldn't be easy, you should have to THINK, not just participate.

I could go on and on. But we desperately need to improve our education systems in America - our politics will follow. ☮

kansasobama

(1,555 posts)
64. Make economics compulsory in High School
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:05 PM
Nov 10

It pains to see voters say Trump will reduce inflation and costs or interest rate. There is zero knowledge about macro-economics. If I say that, MAGA will say I am elite. I am not. I am just a well-to-do middle class

Elessar Zappa

(16,224 posts)
13. Disagree.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:53 AM
Nov 10

There’s plenty of jobs that need to be filled that don’t require a college education. Plumbers, electricians, construction workers, contractors, service workers, health aides, etc.

Farmer-Rick

(11,587 posts)
23. There are plenty of factory jobs still
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:42 AM
Nov 10

But they are just not in the US. We buy a crap ton of junk from factories in foreign countries. We support their jobs by buying their crap. Just like there are a ton of cows producing milk just not in the US. We support their dairy industries too.

That's why the tariff idea isn't as crazy as you might think. A smart factory owner would look at moving the factory to the US to avoid the tariffs.

Thanks to free trade and all those free trade agreements, we managed to hollow out our manufacturing and major farming sectors. Both Dems and the GOP participated in that. Even Robert Reich helped in crafting NAFTA with Bush and Clinton.

That's why we crashed in 2007 and bailed out the banks while providing austerity for the rest of us. The politicians couldn't give us those factory jobs back so they told us to suck it up and pay for the filthy-rich. Did your mortgage get rescued like the banks did?

Honestly, I think people remember when factory jobs in manufacturing were our back bone for employment. No college required. They came with good paying middle management jobs too. They paid much better than a sales clerks job. Now we are a nation of badly paid sales clerks and waiters.

That could be the reason that a lot of people did vote for the pedo Trump.

But......Trump was complaining about rigged elections. It's always projection with him. He won by about 1% in 3 states. But they also got the Senate back so that tells me he did get a ton of votes. And the house has always been gerrymandered.

Too bad Dems didn't see it coming.

walkingman

(8,667 posts)
24. Agree - I think we should bring back more apprenticeship type programs in the various trades.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:48 AM
Nov 10

You make a good living in the trades, become an entrepreneur, etc. But we need more qualified people in the trades. There are too many unqualified independent contractors that make it difficult to ensure quality and dependability.

GenThePerservering

(2,675 posts)
33. Yes!
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:13 AM
Nov 10

The skilled trades are essential. College is not necessary for success alone. Further education - including tradeschool/apprenticeship - is.

lrucks1952

(6 posts)
30. FACTS!! FACTS
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:00 AM
Nov 10

YES! You must get an education or be educated!!!...I agree with all that is said here with the biggest point being we have so many people who receive incorrect information daily and do no fact checking on their own..This ignorance with the help of social media is destroying this country... I recently saw a Utube video showing black men in Atlanta stating how much they loved Trump!!..There was at least 6 on screen African American men interviews for Trump. Not one single opinion they were saying into the camera was true and could easily be fact checked. As a black man, I was both saddened and embarrassed. Not one truth!

It was sad and now back to the point of this article. The last thing Republicans want is an educated electorate. Talk to any MAGA!! just one!! and try to have a decent conversation with them.. You can't!! They make no sense at all!! Yet they all receive and want the benefits driven and made possible by the left. Simply check it out for yourself and you will see

LAS14

(14,861 posts)
66. This is a recipe for the death of the Democratic Party (or whoever adopts this position.)
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 02:20 PM
Nov 10

Not all people can (or want to be) educated to the college level. They need to be able to live satisfying lives. We need to create societies that allow that. Full stop.

drmeow

(5,374 posts)
7. Everything he says
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:13 AM
Nov 10

was true when Biden beat Trump. Most if not all of it was true when Obama won. Some of us have been screaming this into the void since right after Reagan won (all it took is a rudimentary understanding of Keynesian economics for me to recognize in high school how wrong Reaganomics/trickle down is). But I would be willing to bet a very, very large sum of money that even if the Democratic Party adopted and pushed through everything he suggests (which I would celebrate like it's 1999), if we nominated another woman she would still lose!

kansasobama

(1,555 posts)
9. Agree
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:16 AM
Nov 10

No one wants to admit MAGA is a cult and many of us are racists and sexists. Truth hurts and so we find outlet in these academic excuses

Diamond_Dog

(35,461 posts)
8. I think Reich is brilliant and I have read many good articles by him
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:15 AM
Nov 10

But I don’t agree with this:

“Most of the economy’s gains have gone to the top. This has caused many Americans to feel frustrated and angry. Trump gave voice to that anger. Harris did not.”

Um …. no. Every TV ad, every speech, Harris stated that she would make the wealthy pay their fair share.
Trump has and will continue to give bigger tax breaks to the rich!

“Democrats need to tell Americans why their pay has been lousy for decades and their jobs less secure: not because of immigrants, liberals, people of color, the “deep state,” or any other Trump Republican bogeyman, but because of the power of large corporations and the rich to rig the market and siphon off most of the economy’s gains.”

Good luck getting Trumpy people to let go of their bigotry which translates into “it’s always someone else’s fault (“others”). why I can’t get ahead”. This seems to be a huge cancer that nothing will ever cure.

Elessar Zappa

(16,224 posts)
14. It's not about convincing Trumpers.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:55 AM
Nov 10

It’s about convincing a portion of the 40% who vote Republican but aren’t MAGA. There’s a lot of them and they can absolutely be convinced to vote for a Democrat.

William Seger

(11,167 posts)
12. So, in the end, it really was stupidity
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:49 AM
Nov 10

Food and gas were cheaper under Trump, so let's put him back in.

Timewas

(2,344 posts)
15. Exactly This
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:59 AM
Nov 10
The Democratic Party should use this inflection point to shift ground — from being the party of well-off college graduates, big corporations, “never-Trumpers” like Dick Cheney, and vacuous “centrism” — to an anti-establishment party ready to shake up the system on behalf of the vast majority of Americans.

William Seger

(11,167 posts)
18. But "the system" will be changing rapidly to fascism
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:14 AM
Nov 10

Will anything Democrats do or say make any difference? Trump won't be able to cancel elections, but with the help of cultists in state governments, he can make them meaningless -- just like Russia.

Bernardo de La Paz

(51,817 posts)
19. No nihilsm, please. No "will anything make any difference", please. It's self-destructive. Forward. . . . . . nt
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:16 AM
Nov 10

William Seger

(11,167 posts)
32. The world is on a self-destructive path, and we just trashed the last chance to avoid it
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:09 AM
Nov 10

It's not nihilism to see a dark future for humanity unless we can do something drastic, right now. Instead, something drastic has happened to ensure that we won't. In the shorter run, of course I hope that Democrats can recover politically and restore some decency to government, but it's hard to avoid being depressed that I won't be around to see that. Sorry, but right now, I'm in a very dark place, knowing that it's much worse than that; it's likely that none of us will be around to see the worst consequences of this election.

Anyway, maybe you're right that I shouldn't be sharing my darkness, so I'm gonna take a break from DU.

Bernardo de La Paz

(51,817 posts)
63. I understand. It IS dark & difficult now. Will be brighter later. Break is ok. But you might find support on DU
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:38 PM
Nov 10

There are many good people here who can chat/post and hear you and your feelings. They also have practical suggestions for mental resilience.

These are tough times and changes are happening.

Sometimes things have to get a bit dark to wake some people up (like independents and leaners) so they can pull back and unite with the people who already hold a light.

Take care and be well.

Farmer-Rick

(11,587 posts)
25. Yeah, once you put in a dicktater
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:48 AM
Nov 10

It's really hard to get him out again. Just look at Russia.

Fake elections, Nazi slave labor, forced labor for Social Security. Concentration camps. Fear, hate, violence and death. That's what's coming for the US for a very long time.

Bernardo de La Paz

(51,817 posts)
17. Don't shift ground, but increase efforts to help the non-college educated. Reich makes lots of good points
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:13 AM
Nov 10

The thing is, the Democratic Party over the years has typically been "the working man's party", i.e. the non-college educated. And still in many ways is, if we naturally extend it to all "working people".

No need to abandon the college educated. The point can be made that helping "working people" helps the whole society. It is not a zero sum game. It's a positive sum game. RepubliCons and self-centred conservatives think it is a zero-sum game so in their race to grab bigger slices they do enough damage to turn it into a negative sum game.

Working people spend money, which makes profits, which should mean that working people can get better wages to spend more to make more profits. It's a virtuous circle, the opposite of a vicious circle.

Rich people park money in assets like artwork that do not produce anything more valuable than the asset.

Scrivener7

(53,487 posts)
21. Nope. This is the same thing they said in 2016, and we learned unequivocally that it wasn't true. It still isn't.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:30 AM
Nov 10

All the things he suggests are good. We SHOULD improve our lousy messaging and tell people how they're being cheated and how we'll fix it. We should always do this. We should have done it decades ago. (I am not talking about Harris or the campaign here. I think she ran a perfect campaign.)

But people voted for trump, or stayed home and didn't vote for Harris, because of racism and sexism. They ARE the full explanation.

If she was a white man, she'd be President.

andym

(5,748 posts)
34. Kamala outperformed Biden's polling and favorability by alot
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:14 AM
Nov 10

Biden was polling under water and was losing badly in the polls to Trump even before the debate. He is a white man about the same age as Trump. Kamala outperformed a white man from Pa.

andym

(5,748 posts)
37. Yes indeed--Polls were more accurate this cycle and predicted the outcome
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:20 AM
Nov 10

Polls were literally showing a toss up nationally and a toss up in the swing states-- look at RCP's last analysis: https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024/battleground-states.

Trump will win within the MOE of the polls in the swing states and nationally.

The poll denying that was popular by some turned out to be a mistake.

MatthewStLouis

(912 posts)
36. Agreed. Misogyny explains it.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:20 AM
Nov 10

While I mostly agree with Robert Reich, the main takeaway should be that only a white male could have gotten us over the line (at least at this point in time). I love the naive optimism of the Democratic party and all our wishful thinking, but our country is not there yet. Not ready for a Madame President.

Like some people have said, Joe should have hung it up 2 years ago and we needed a convention. The first time we cringed at his age related slowness, our party leadership needed to push him to hang it up. (Yes, hindsight is 20/20. We thought maybe Joe would make it. Then we thought we had a shot with Harris. But it wasn't enough.)

LisaL

(46,814 posts)
47. I agree with you. We had a disaster, when after a debate, everybody turned on Joe, including his own party.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:38 AM
Nov 10

It was going to be difficult to recover from that.
And we didn't recover from that, based on these results.

delisen

(6,658 posts)
60. Mexico just got a female president. She is also Jewish.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:00 PM
Nov 10

Millions of macho Mexican men voted her into office . How do you explain that? She is also Jewish.

Do you know what is happening in Mexico? How they have not let misogyny stop them from making abortion legal, increasing female representation at all levels, moving ahead on environmental issues,. affordable health care.

Blaming misogyny for our regression into fascism is accepting the MAGA framing and ensuring that fascism will win and democracy will lose.

Scrivener7

(53,487 posts)
59. Yes. I saw. I disagree. It's the biggest problem. And the economy is definitely A problem, but it's not why she lost.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:40 PM
Nov 10

orangecrush

(22,302 posts)
22. I think Reich should pull his head out and see daylight
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:35 AM
Nov 10

The message I get from this is we don't need to do much different.

Laughable.

Scrivener7

(53,487 posts)
55. Here is some wisdom that we all need to understand. It comes from DUer soldierant:
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:29 PM
Nov 10

"But recognizing the existence of misogyny is not misogyny, nor is recognizing the existence of racism itself racism, no matter how many crazy people scream the contrary"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19694793

TBF

(34,867 posts)
28. Reich, as usual, uses too many words to point out the obvious --
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:54 AM
Nov 10

everyone I've talked to about this election - many of them working class (non-college) graduates, insisted they voted on the economy. I do think there is racism/sexism at work, but it doesn't explain everything. After all, Obama was able to win folks over. Did it help that he was male? Sure, but he also focused on things they cared about like health insurance.

This is what I think Reich is correct about: "Democrats must no longer do the bidding of big corporations and the wealthy. They must instead focus on winning back the working class."

LisaL

(46,814 posts)
49. Well, Obama wasn't a female.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:41 AM
Nov 10

We had a major drop in votes from Latino males this time around, which I am pretty sure wasn't a case with Obama.

TBF

(34,867 posts)
50. Of course, that's why I noted "Did it help that he was male?"
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:51 AM
Nov 10

I do think the sexism was a huge factor. But I also don't think it was only that.

paleotn

(19,709 posts)
26. Ironically, "Latino men" may have a hard time returning to the damn country much less the Democratic Party.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:52 AM
Nov 10

Bye, Pedro. Remember you did this to yourself. Idiot.

-misanthroptimist

(1,244 posts)
29. I agree with him on all points
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 10:59 AM
Nov 10

It's rare that I disagree with Reich. In fact, I don't remember ever disagreeing with him, though I'm sure I must have on some point or other. I think he's brilliant (because he agrees with me!). It's a shame his advice rarely is heeded by the Party.

Raven123

(6,187 posts)
31. I agree with much of Reich's views on how Dems have handled the economy
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:02 AM
Nov 10

Basically moved to the right with the GOP and Clinton on NAFTA and deregulation. If I read him correctly, he is aligning himself with the Sanders and Warren wings of the party.

What I can’t figure out is how to communicate and convince people about the effects of the big corporations. They own the media. And it seems to me Warren and Sanders have tried, only be branded as socialists (doesn’t help that Sanders self identifies as a Democratic Socialist).

Lunabell

(7,119 posts)
45. And that used to be the party of FDR.
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:34 AM
Nov 10

Which gave us all the nice things right wingers are trying to destroy.

bdamomma

(66,947 posts)
38. I'm posting this in the
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:20 AM
Nov 10

wrong forum.

But this is Robert Reich podcast listen:

&list=PLOLArO56vjuoDxbdMWMFEdWfVCsHc2X7W

dlk

(12,509 posts)
39. I agree with nearly all of Reich's points
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:21 AM
Nov 10

However, Republican voter suppression and, yes, cheating played a role. They have a history of cheating. With so much at stake, why wouldn’t they cheat in this election?

Remember Trump, who often uses projection and consistently gives himself away has said he didn’t need his supporters’ votes. Why not? Salvaging our democracy more than warrants a closer look.

We can’t ignore Vladimir Putin’s hand and other bad actors in this endeavor.


TBF

(34,867 posts)
67. I wouldn't rule out cheating -
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 03:53 PM
Nov 10

I do think not responding to the working class in a sincere way was a problem. Most of what I saw in social media, when someone mentioned prices, was the response "we came out of the pandemic stronger than other countries". This may be true, but you really have to think at the level of folks living paycheck to paycheck. Plenty of them listened to Trump, and that was just insanity. But I can see why they would feel no one heard them. Trump tells them what they want to hear (even if he has no intention of doing anything about it to help them).

But I also think it likely that there was cheating. From the overt bomb scare call ins, the vote boxes being set on fire in certain states, and earlier than that - all of the folks taken off the voting rolls due to address changes, etc. I don't know how big of a percentage of that there was obviously. But I'd be shocked if they didn't try to cheat in some way. We all remember Trump telling state officials he only needed to find xyz number of votes in Georgia, etc. Past behavior often predicts future behavior. And somehow, with the help of disinformation, they put enough together to not just get the presidency, but Congress as well.

dickthegrouch

(3,686 posts)
70. I totally disagree with "There is little or no evidence of widespread cheating by Republicans."
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 09:50 PM
Nov 10

Two words: Gerrymandering and SCROTUS
republicans and tsf have cheated at every single turn for decades, enabled by the ridiculous rulings from Robert’s scrotum.

evemac

(195 posts)
43. I would switch number 6
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:30 AM
Nov 10

From partly true to true.
It doesn't negate the remainder of the evaluation, but I do think that misogyny is alive and well and impacts voting more than people are saying it does.

bonniebgood

(952 posts)
46. I do not want to hear from Obama, Michele, Oprah etc every 4 years Unless
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:34 AM
Nov 10

They build an education system to reach ALL those idiots who voted against their own interest.


Republicans won because of misinformation and right-wing propaganda. They won over young men because of a vicious alliance between Trump and a vast network of online influencers and podcasts appealing to them. The answer is for Democrats to cultivate an equivalent media ecosystem that rivals what the right has built."
Partly true. Misinformation and right-wing propaganda did play a role, particularly in reaching young men. But this hardly means progressives and Democrats should fill the information ecosystem with misinformation or left-wing propaganda. Better messaging, yes. Lies and bigotry, no. Robert Reich
Example: How in the world would someone working in Union Jobs created by the “chips act” by President Biden and don’t know that? Same with the “stimulus check” Shame on the big money, Billionaire speakers democrats Who show up every FOUR YEARS to raise money and shout VOTE and Do something.

We have proved we can raise a BiLLION dollars in 3 months to run a campaign Let contribute that same money to Media education for idiots. Like Trump said : He’s loved the low educated? something to that effect. We need to love them to by educating them.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,942 posts)
51. I want to refer you all to the book
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 11:51 AM
Nov 10

"The Fourth Turning is Here" by Neil Howe. It makes wonderful sense of what is happening.

Silent Type

(7,616 posts)
53. Not a Reich fan. He and some other Democrats helped give us trump in 2016 by bashing Obama and Clinton efforts
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 12:11 PM
Nov 10

at completing trade agreements. Talking about misinformation, that was it.

There is a reason Obama, H Clinton, Biden, and then Harris shunned Reich.

Seasider

(189 posts)
61. Reich shouldn't call out voters who are crying foul
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:29 PM
Nov 10

I get that he doesn’t want Democratic voters going down the same conspiracy theory rabbit hole as MAGA does but that doesn’t voters shouldn’t question the results and demand an explanation on what they feel is not making sense to them. People have a right to know if their vote was properly counted.

poli-junkie

(1,160 posts)
62. 40+ years of trickle down economics has
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 01:29 PM
Nov 10

now morphed into fascism. Voters pin the blame for their struggles to get by on whomever’s in power. It’s now Trump’s turn to ignore them, and he will.

Dems need to take advantage of not being in power by returning to its roots as the party of the middle class. It’s the economy stupid.

AncientOfDays

(212 posts)
68. The problem I see ...
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:00 PM
Nov 10

If Dems blunt the worst of tRump's plans, then they'll get blamed for obstructing paradise. And we'll continue in the same situation. Those people will only learn when THEY feel the pain.

I think rather than obstructing on a national level, a better route would be to put efforts in making Blue states like CA, OR, WA and others to be shining beacons. Find some borderline States and improve them, turning them Blue.

Martin Eden

(13,658 posts)
69. Did the Democrats deregulate finance all by themselves?
Sun Nov 10, 2024, 04:08 PM
Nov 10

Everything Reich cites as evidence of Democrats abandoning the working class, weren't Republicans totally on board and even more so?

Here's another question:
Do the Trump voters really know this history, and understand how the economy works?

Hell, they don't even understand how tariffs work.

MichMan

(13,765 posts)
71. Reich appears to support tariffs in the OP
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 09:57 AM
Nov 18
"The basic bargain used to be that if you worked hard and played by the rules, you’d do better and your children would do even better than you. But since 1980, that bargain has become a sham. The middle class has shrunk.

Why? While Republicans steadily cut taxes on the wealthy, Democrats abandoned the working class.

Democrats embraced NAFTA and lowered tariffs on Chinese goods. They deregulated finance and allowed Wall Street to become a high-stakes gambling casino. They let big corporations gain enough market power to keep prices (and profit margins) high."

Martin Eden

(13,658 posts)
72. As I recall, Republicans were more fully on board with this than Democrats
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 11:01 AM
Nov 18

This goes back to the Clinton administration. A good number of Democrats voted against financial deregulation though Clinton signed into law the changes cited by Reich.

That was ~30 years ago, and Republicans were all in favor IIRC.

My point being that R's have more thoroughly abandoned working & lower income Americans than the D's ever have, especially the Biden/Harris administration. Voters had more cause to punish R's than D's on this score.

Regarding tariffs, specifically targeting countries with unfair practices or advantages in certain industries makes sense in protecting American workers.

Trump's broad brush approach at this point will spark inflation and trade wars.

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