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edhopper

(35,374 posts)
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 12:50 PM Oct 2024

Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew from Western Europe

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/13/world/columbus-origins-western-europe-study-intl/index.html

“We have DNA from Christopher Columbus, very partial, but sufficient. We have DNA from Hernando Colón, his son,” Lorente said in the program.

“And both in the Y chromosome (male) and in the mitochondrial DNA (transmitted by the mother) of Hernando there are traits compatible with Jewish origin.”

So not only was Columbus a reprehensible man who should not be used for Italian Americans to celebrate their heritage. He wasn't even Italian.

Can we now rename this holiday after someone more worthy? Garibaldi? Marconi? Vespucci?
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Christopher Columbus was a Sephardic Jew from Western Europe (Original Post) edhopper Oct 2024 OP
Natives. elleng Oct 2024 #1
I am fine with Indigenous Peoples Day edhopper Oct 2024 #4
The "natives" were not indigenous, having crossed over from Asia via Siberia elias7 Oct 2024 #16
This gets lost DeepWinter Oct 2024 #35
There weren't any Jews in Italy? AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2024 #2
Yes edhopper Oct 2024 #3
His parents names are in Wikipedia. LeftInTX Oct 2024 #33
Of course he was Italian PCIntern Oct 2024 #5
This feels like that "Jesus was a Palestinian" bullshit that circulated at Christmas AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2024 #10
Exactly what I was thinking Mossfern Oct 2024 #29
Have you heard of edhopper Oct 2024 #15
I never expected to ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2024 #26
ROFL edhopper Oct 2024 #27
DU'zy! ms liberty Oct 2024 #30
My friend Oren Lyons, H2O Man Oct 2024 #6
Columbus should be a hero to no one. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2024 #8
You certainly have H2O Man Oct 2024 #9
History is grim soandso Oct 2024 #12
He was a Catholic. WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2024 #7
.....which does not preclude him from having Jewish DNA.... Sogo Oct 2024 #14
More accurately soandso Oct 2024 #21
He was a piece of shit get the red out Oct 2024 #11
Yes, he knew his patrons and their subsequent generations were going to be so exploitative. elias7 Oct 2024 #19
No he was a POS edhopper Oct 2024 #25
I am sorry, I don't just know get the red out Oct 2024 #34
Columbus Day is a farcical holiday. The Western hemisphere was "discovered" long before his arrival. Sogo Oct 2024 #13
Pavarotti. Frasier Balzov Oct 2024 #17
So Spanish researchers are "almost absolutely" sure that Columbus was Spanish. Chellee Oct 2024 #18
Why do we need a holiday to celebrate a famous Italian? eShirl Oct 2024 #20
You do know that there were Italian Jews? Elessar Zappa Oct 2024 #22
History as we are taught is rarely real history. duncang Oct 2024 #23
Oct 14th should be "We Were Here First" day. Talitha Oct 2024 #24
I'm a white male of Northern European extraction Vogon_Glory Oct 2024 #28
Exactly! Back in the mid-50's we were taught that the Nordics were in North America LONG before Columbus. Talitha Oct 2024 #32
Columbus may have had Jewish ancestors Vogon_Glory Oct 2024 #31

edhopper

(35,374 posts)
4. I am fine with Indigenous Peoples Day
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:10 PM
Oct 2024

But the Italian Americans use this day to celebrate their heritage. Like the Irish do on St Patrick's Day. Or Jews at Chinese restaurants on Christmas.

elias7

(4,219 posts)
16. The "natives" were not indigenous, having crossed over from Asia via Siberia
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:20 PM
Oct 2024

Maybe we can just celebrate the land, which was considered sacred to the “natives”

DeepWinter

(833 posts)
35. This gets lost
Tue Oct 15, 2024, 08:20 AM
Oct 2024

way too often. The history of humanity is exploration, travel, trade, curiosity. One race, the Human race, but oh how we love to subdivide and break us down with our tribal mentality of "us" and "them".

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,685 posts)
2. There weren't any Jews in Italy?
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:05 PM
Oct 2024

I didn't realize Italy was an ethnic group and not a nationality.

PCIntern

(27,169 posts)
5. Of course he was Italian
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:13 PM
Oct 2024

He WAS NOT Spanish. There were plenty of Italian Jews…The Garden of the Finzi-Continis is the modern story.

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,685 posts)
10. This feels like that "Jesus was a Palestinian" bullshit that circulated at Christmas
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:23 PM
Oct 2024

FInd a way to malign Jews by attaching them to the most infamous colonizer in history. Next we'll find out that General Custer was a Jew too.

H2O Man

(76,158 posts)
6. My friend Oren Lyons,
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:14 PM
Oct 2024

the Faithkeeper of the Haudenosaunee (Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy), has said that Italians celebrating Columbus Day is a good thing, and that others should not attack it. He points out that the Italians in the US have had very few heroes, and that denying them Columbus Day would be harsh.

Oren does think that correct history should be taught, of course. I don't think that many people believe that Columbus was Italian. I note that Malcolm X did intensive studies of the historic figure, and his findings support what the OP says.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
12. History is grim
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 01:55 PM
Oct 2024

Exploring and conquering is how it was done back then. Killing masses of people was routine. We are fortunate to live in a somewhat better period. From Genghis Khan (killed millions) to Alexander the Great (cut off the hands of captured troops) to the French revolution (non stop bloodbath of heads on pikes, including turning on each other), history is a real shit show.

 

soandso

(1,631 posts)
21. More accurately
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:30 PM
Oct 2024

it would be DNA from a certain part of the world where Jews existed. It's looks like Chris, himself, was a Christian:

…And I saw the Moorish king come out of the gates of the city and kiss the royal hands of Your Highnesses…and Your Highnesses, as Catholic Christians…took thought to send me, Christopher Columbus, to the said parts of India, to see those princes and peoples and lands…and the manner which should be used to bring about their conversion to our holy faith, and ordained that I should not go by land to the eastward, by which way it was the custom to go, but by way of the west, by which down to this day we do not know certainly that anyone has passed; therefore, having driven out all the Jews from your realms and lordships in the same month of January, Your Highnesses commanded me that, with a sufficient fleet, I should go to the said parts of India, and for this accorded me great rewards and ennobled me so that from that time henceforth I might style myself “Don” and be high admiral of the Ocean Sea and viceroy and perpetual Governor of the islands and continent which I should discover…and that my eldest son should succeed to the same position, and so on from generation to generation forever.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Christopher-Columbus

elias7

(4,219 posts)
19. Yes, he knew his patrons and their subsequent generations were going to be so exploitative.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:24 PM
Oct 2024

He was an adventurer, a sailor and an explorer and probably gave two shits about money. But he was a piece of shit because you know this.

Sogo

(5,980 posts)
13. Columbus Day is a farcical holiday. The Western hemisphere was "discovered" long before his arrival.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:05 PM
Oct 2024

nt.

Chellee

(2,231 posts)
18. So Spanish researchers are "almost absolutely" sure that Columbus was Spanish.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:22 PM
Oct 2024

That "almost" is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

After analyzing 25 possible places, Lorente said it was only possible to say Columbus was born in Western Europe.

On Thursday, Lorente said they had confirmed previous theories that the remains in Seville Cathedral belonged to Columbus.

Research on Columbus’ nationality was complicated by a number of factors including the large amount of data. But “the outcome is almost absolutely reliable,” Lorente said.


The Spanish think he's Spanish. The Italians think he's Italian. The Sephardim say "Please don't involve us."

eShirl

(19,044 posts)
20. Why do we need a holiday to celebrate a famous Italian?
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:25 PM
Oct 2024


re: "Can we now rename this holiday after someone more worthy? Garibaldi? Marconi? Vespucci?"

duncang

(3,767 posts)
23. History as we are taught is rarely real history.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 02:38 PM
Oct 2024

The saying history is written by the victors is true to a point. But it’s also written by people who are biased. My group is better than that group. It’s also written by gossip someone told someone else this happened. It’s written by people who have heard passed down information. I don’t doubt he had Jewish ancestors. All the travel going on at the time it’s likely a lot of people there are somehow related.

Talitha

(7,501 posts)
24. Oct 14th should be "We Were Here First" day.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 04:20 PM
Oct 2024

I say let's abolish the word 'discover'. It leads us to believe that foreign lands and their inhabitants didn't exist until a white male of European descent happened to bump into it. Phooey on that.

Vogon_Glory

(9,680 posts)
28. I'm a white male of Northern European extraction
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 05:04 PM
Oct 2024

I don’t believe that Columbus was the first European to encounter the Americas, so there. (Can you say Anse aux Meadows? Sure you can!).


IMO, I think Columbus Day ought to be replaced with Indigenous Peoples’ Day.

Talitha

(7,501 posts)
32. Exactly! Back in the mid-50's we were taught that the Nordics were in North America LONG before Columbus.
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 05:37 PM
Oct 2024

But the Natives were here before the Nordics - "We Were Here First" and all.
Throughout the decades, there's been some great PBS programs about the Nordics' early settlements.

Vogon_Glory

(9,680 posts)
31. Columbus may have had Jewish ancestors
Mon Oct 14, 2024, 05:15 PM
Oct 2024

But I suspect that his family was probably culturally Catholic for at least a generation or two. While members of minority religions may celebrate those people who kept the faith of their fathers (and mothers) over the centuries after conquest and persecution (examples: Jews and Christians in the Levant and North Africa, Jews in Europe), others chose to join the majority religion for various reasons.

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