General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"The Government Bailed out the The People and Imprisoned the Banksters"
Last edited Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:23 AM - Edit history (2)
found on fb
there's some good info here (reply #79) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021902155#post79
thanks DaniDubois
midnight
(26,624 posts)Larry Ogg
(1,474 posts)It's something our pretend democracy bipartisan sock puppets intensely loathe.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)R.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,595 posts)My admiration for them knows no bounds!
K&R
Octafish
(55,745 posts)What is missing is the political leadership needed to do so.
I'd argue that's missing, in large part, a result of allowing government employees charged with enforcing regulations joining the very industries as employees they once regulated upon completing government service.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,595 posts)tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Thanks, brilliant leaders.
mikeysnot
(4,756 posts)How to loot and pillage and leave us the bill.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Iceland's new leaders, after they people threw out the ones who facilitated the collapse of their country, put the people first and were not interested in protecting crooked Bankers.
The opposite happened in Europe and the US. The goal was to protect the crooked Bankers and the politicians who enabled them, and to do it by using the Working Class to bail them out.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... benefit of the doubt that their actions have been done from ignorance instead of being deliberate crimes against us.
Could I be wrong? Have the sainted members of this administration been less than honest with us?
I am stunned i tell you. Stunned!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)That was very clever of them actually. They already had one party totally under the control of Wall Street, then they apparently sought out people who were willing to adjust their positions on a few issues known to be important to Liberals, three or four was all they needed to pass as Democrats. This way they were accepted into the 'Big Tent' which they use constantly to excuse their presence in our party.
Once inside, proudly wearing their 'D' buttons instead of an 'R', they began the process of putting forward all the Right Wing, Wall Street and MIC garbage and bingo it worked. Probably way better than even they had imagined.
Wind Dancer
(3,618 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts)... the "third way" is just plain old douchebag oligarchy rule.
hay rick
(7,607 posts)My post on Third Way: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021845455
Thought for the day: make nice on gender issues and you can still coddle the rich.
tomp
(9,512 posts)...to politicians or government.
absolute transparency (and i do mean absolute, as in NO secrets) and hourly accounting is what is needed. we probably need about 5% of the population whose sole job would be to monitor politicians and government constantly and report back on public media.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... I'm the last person who "trusts" any of the rotten scoundrels. Guess I should have used that sarcasm thingie, eh?
tomp
(9,512 posts)... I see, my misunderstanding then..
Royal Sloan 09
(406 posts)Good for them, it worked, so when do We start?
iandhr
(6,852 posts)Its different when who have a population of 319,000 vs. 310,000,000
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)to not do the right thing.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)Sickening. Isn't it?.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)In Iceland, the territory and population is small enough that stuff that effects the "country" is more on par with something very localized in the US. It's easier for parts of the US to isolate themselves from the problems happening elsewhere in the US and end up being a drag on the desire for change. The red state / blue state shit we have to deal with I think has a lot to do with the size of our country and the remoteness between people who are equals in the decision-making processes in our Federal government. It's an additional burden we need to overcome when we need to make changes that effect the whole country.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)than there are kids caught with a joint, if we have so little trouble jailing a far larger group for a non-offense, I think the jails have room for a few dozen con men that scammed trillions while destroying millions of lives, if they shoplifted they would be facing felony charges now so I just don't get why they are above the law over a far worse crime with so many victims.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Not all that hard, since we also have a lot more prisons. And lots more money to "bail out the people".
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Release them and you have 50 times the room you need for the mere 10,000 banksters and related corporate criminals who should have already been behind bars the last few years.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,760 posts)tama
(9,137 posts)Just give them shovel, few seeds and empty island to live on with full economic freedom. Alcatraz?
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)And besides, these crooked capitalists would just love going to a market-based privatized prison!
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)It would only create more jobs. More crooked bankers in jail, more prisons need to be built (maybe not if we legalize certain things, and let those folks out). More prisons needing to be built means more jobs for builders, and when the building is done, for the jailers.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)LeftInTX
(25,279 posts)Javaman
(62,521 posts)try again.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)sally5050
(151 posts)wow! Iceland still rocks in my world.
Does it matter that a lesbian is Premier? I think so.. lesbians make impressive leaders.
http://www.motherjones.com/slideshows/2010/06/female-heads-state-australia-gillard/sigurdardottir
nineteen50
(1,187 posts)bailed out the people because he felt they would do a better job of investing the money than the bankers. Bush and Obama bailed out the banks because they felt the bankers would invest the money better. I guess the court is still out on which worked .
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Sadly!
Dakota Flint
(219 posts)"ain't it the truth....ain't it the truth."
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)back to the shitty economy we had in 2007 in another 10 years, maybe, if we're really good and promise to eat our peas.
TheUnspeakable
(1,005 posts)It's really not that hard to figure out-but we have to pretend that it is.
agent46
(1,262 posts)This is what a small homogeneous, educated population that places more value on democracy than propaganda-fueled tribalism looks like.
kooljerk666
(776 posts)Last I heard Economy was growing at 8%, best in the world.
Iceland wants to show other countries how to "rebalance" towards more power for The People.
In an interview with Olafur Grimmson, the President of Iceland, he makes it clear that the world is in the middle of a profound change in the way we are / will be governed / govern ourselves - all brought about by the ubiquity and low cost of modern communications technologies.
He says: "We are seeing a tectonic shift in the nature of our societies, transforming the balance between the market on one hand and democracy on the other. I have even concluded, which is a strange conclusion for me to make because I have spent most of my life within the traditional institutions of a democratic political system, that the democratic power of this movement that technology has enabled and brought about, is now so strong and so fast that the operations of the traditional institutions have almost become a sideshow."
http://realdirectdemocracynow.blogspot.com/2012/04/iceland-wants-to-show-other-countries.html
greyghost
(1,675 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, trailmonkee.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Oh, I see, Iceland. Wonder how they rank for health care and education?
Bet they aren't ranked down in the 20's and 30's like we are, either? Human welfare is important.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)I'll read it later. Thank you for the link.
Response to trailmonkee (Original post)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
lob1
(3,820 posts)ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)place to secede to if Rmoney became president.
joeunderdog
(2,563 posts)But now I just might have to go and find out about their politics. I had no idea.
Last time I went, I thought it was other-worldly. Now I like it even better.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)warrprayer
(4,734 posts)of what we can expect to see in the coming months
spanone
(135,828 posts)Maineman
(854 posts)is Obama's fiscal cliff negiator!! We need to rise up and get Geitner the hell out of there!!
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)Both of these should have the effect of cooling investment in the country, and have already created 25% + inflation.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)worth less.
So they go to work and home every day, and their total debt decreases. They have government health care and decent wages, women fare better, they live 2 years longer. Since they started their crisis they are sending more people for higher education than they were before their cuts. And they can't import as much of cheap Walmart junk. Darn the luck.
And because their money doesn't buy as much on the export market, the return on investment to rebuild their jobs inside the country for the people makes good economic sense, and now they can figure out how to compete on a world stage.
And because the money is worth less the renteirs that were profiting from the profligacy got hammered, and are not as able to ply their filthy wares in providing overpriced mortgage-based assets to unsuspecting borrowers. Too damn bad.
And since they have a high measure of cooperation and egalitarianism, they can weather the deprivation that will occur. Which reminds me - in our way, we now have 47 million people on food stamps, and millions upon millions for whom there is no job. While people in junk bond firms call themselves private equity and pay themselves $245,000. A week. And collect part of the $40 billion we are paying out each month to make sure greedy bastards mortgage-based assets don't fall, while taking 700,000 people out of their homes from the 1.3ish million foreclosures this year.
Why is our way better?
DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)an idiotic non-word like "banksters".
Otherwise, excellent graphic.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)DemocratsForProgress
(545 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)so while a couple of bankers were arrested, the people did suffer.
What is also interesting is that they borrowed 4.6 billion dollars from the IMF - considering the US is the largest contributor to the IMF the Icelandic people benefited from US taxpayers money.
Native
(5,942 posts)60 minutes covered this, and there's a documentary floating around about this as well. Saw it, but can't remember the title. Very interesting. I remember way back when when DU had some of the first reports about the riots in the streets!
ReRe
(10,597 posts)I love FB, and I'm not even a member of it. Yet.
Thanks for this OP, trailmonkee. I urge everyone to sit still and explore all the links and avenues. A real teaching moment.
Bozita
(26,955 posts)greyghost
(1,675 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Hotler
(11,420 posts)from Sixty Minutes "what Wall St. did might have been immoral but, they did nothing illegal." again the president. Nothing to see here. Move along please.
librarygurl
(1 post)Does anyone know of the source for this quote? I've searched all over the internet but haven't found one yet. Thanks in advance.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)How's Chicago?
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)found it on fb.... think it gets to the point
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)DaniDubois
(154 posts)Here's something else
Other countries, of course, haven't been so lucky. The crisis remains front page news in Greece, Italy and Spain countries that followed a very different response from Iceland's.
Ólafur argues that his country's strength came from recognizing the problem was not just an "economic and financial challenge", but a "profound social, political, and even judicial" challenge.
After the crisis, the country held a full judicial investigation, and went against "the prevailing economic orthodoxies of the American, European and IMF model." Ólafur says that he likes to think that the IMF learned more from Iceland during this time than vice versa.
A key example of this approach is Iceland's refusal to pump money into failed banks. The decision was controversial at the time, but now looks increasingly wise. "I have never understood the argument why a private bank or financial fund is somehow better for the well being and future of the economy than the industrial sector, the IT sector, the creative sector, or the manufacturing sector".
[link:http://www.businessinsider.com/olafur-ragnar-grmsson-iceland-icesave-uk-banks-europe-2012-4#ixzz1sDnsS5IY|
And an excellent article about how they did it.
As one European country after another fails or risks failing, imperiling the Euro, with repercussions for the entire world, the last thing the powers that be want is for Iceland to become an example. Here's why:
Five years of a pure neo-liberal regime had made Iceland, (population 320 thousand, no army), one of the richest countries in the world. In 2003 all the countrys banks were privatized, and in an effort to attract foreign investors, they offered on-line banking whose minimal costs allowed them to offer relatively high rates of return. The accounts, called IceSave, attracted many English and Dutch small investors. But as investments grew, so did the banks foreign debt. In 2003 Icelands debt was equal to 200 times its GNP, but in 2007, it was 900 percent. The 2008 world financial crisis was the coup de grace. The three main Icelandic banks, Landbanki, Kapthing and Glitnir, went belly up and were nationalized, while the Kroner lost 85% of its value with respect to the Euro. At the end of the year Iceland declared bankruptcy.
Contrary to what could be expected, the crisis resulted in Icelanders recovering their sovereign rights, through a process of direct participatory democracy that eventually led to a new Constitution.
[link:http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1|
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)DaniDubois
(154 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)He predicted their fall a year before it occurred.
I love the Icelandic people's response.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,311 posts)I can find:
07 April 2011 Baldue Gudlaugsson, former permanent secretary at the Ministry of Finance, insider dealing - two years in prison - sold his shares in Landsbanki on the 17th and 18th September 2008, immediately before the banks fall
http://www.icenews.is/2011/04/07/first-iceland-bank-crash-prison-sentence-handed-down/
http://www.icenews.is/2012/02/17/insider-dealing-civil-servant-loses-appeal/
15 June 2012 former chairman and the former CEO of the Icelandic Byr Savings Bank have each been sentenced to four-and-a-half years behind bars after being found guilty of fraud: "granting an ISK 800 million (EUR 4.9 million) loan to Exeter Holdings ehf, just as the Icelandic banking system was on the brink of collapse in 2008.
Exeter then used the loan to buy Gudjonsson and Jonssons shares in Byr, before putting them up for sale as a collateral guarantee for the loan."
http://www.icenews.is/2012/06/15/former-icelandic-bank-execs-jailed-for-fraud/
Byr is Icelands fourth largest operating bank in the retail and corporate sector. Before the financial crisis Old Byr had a total of 235 employees working in 214 full-time positions.
http://www.eftasurv.int/media/decisions/126-11-COL.pdf
Aron Karlsson was sentenced to 2 years in prison for defrauding Arion Bank in real estate dealings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932012_Icelandic_financial_crisis#Convictions
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.visir.is%2Faron-karlsson-daemdur-i-tveggja-ara-fangelsi-%2Farticle%2F2012121118956
Any other jail sentences people can find? The ex-PM was guilty on one charge:
'Haarde was convicted of failing to take the initiative to insure "a comprehensive and professional analysis of the financial risk faced by the state because of the risk of financial crisis."'
but was cleared on others, received no punishment, and had his court costs paid
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/04/23/business-iceland-bank-collapse.html
And one year suspended sentences for 3 investors, for tax violations:
http://icelandpulse.com/icelandreview/6466-icelandic-tycoon-found-guilty-of-tax-violations
WillyT
(72,631 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)-I wish this were actually possible in America. I wonder how dangerous it would be to attempt here.