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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBroken Brain Syndrome
I've seen this before.
Though I don't think Donald Trump's latest rally mishap was a McConnell-like freeze, Trump is definitely having increasing dementia problems. As one of the doctors from the Duty to Warn Coalition has noted, Donald Trump's brain is broken. His mental capacity is a mere shadow of what it was in 2016 and his cognitive functions are seriously impaired.
My father went through this as did my sister. You can have plateaus during the early stages of the disease where function evens out and a patient has moments of clarity. But as the disease progresses (and it always progresses), those moments become infrequent, and then disappear altogether.
Trump is very close to the abyss.
Stress worsens the symptoms and I truly believe that's what we're witnessing. Falling asleep in the courtroom is a good example of advanced dementia-related behavior. My father would sleep a lot during the day, and then be on the prowl throughout the night.
Sound familiar?
All the language glitches and slurs, the language of violence and paranoia? It's all part of it as the brain damage worsens. Even his body movement--that forward tilt, the leg dragging could be attributed to his neurological decline.
I recall watching my father as he went through this process comparing him to a diver. In the early stages, he would dive beneath the water and resurface, sputtering, making excuses, citing reasons for a poor or unexpected dive. As time went on, his inability to resurface entirely or even make reasonable excuses/explanations became painfully clear. Weirdly enough, my youngest son was having his own struggles after a traumatic brain injury. He started deeply submerged beneath the water, then slowly--in fits and starts--resurfaced, sometimes briefly, then permanently (but with what the medical community refers to as 'deficits').
I watched the whole process in reverse.
Agent Orange is at the point where normal families would seek care and medical advice.
None of this is normal. Not the man, the family, not his frenzied supporters (who are willfully blind to the evidence) and certainly not his enablers, those eager to use Trump as their vehicle to raw power.
Trump's brain is broken. We see it every day and will continue to see it in evermore harrowing dimensions because this is who the GOP is pushing to occupy the Oval Office.
Donald Trump has thus far outrun accountability. But he cannot, will not outrun this disease process.
Hopefully his condition explodes into a total, disastrous handicap before the Elections.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Because there's been a genuine uptick in symptoms.
COL Mustard
(6,715 posts)When it's too late to replace him on the ballot. He's frightening.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)The Republicans and Their wholly owned subsidiary, (The USSC) already has pre planned for this scenario of him being un-able to make it until the election. I am thinking, in fact, that the group of Republican "power's to be" have it all mapped out already.
Milking Trump for all he is worth, until the moment they can indeed kick him to the curb, and institute their preplanned actions immediately. I would guess they would try to install, via the USSC, a more palatable candidate, who could draw all the Republican women and all the moderate fence sitters to vote Republican.....
captain queeg
(11,759 posts)But then I realize they most certainly are ready for when hes no longer useful to them.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)from the shadows began in 1979 When HWBush and cronies committed Treason to install Reagan in office. It was more than obvious that HW, Cheney, Rumsfeld were running the government for Reagan's eight years. Same for the next four years of HW's term in office.
He and his cronies really needed that four years to cover up all they had done in the previous eight years they had been running the country. There were over 100 members of the Reagan Administration that were charged/indicted for their corrupt and treasonous acts. Day one of HW's administration, he issued them all Pardons. (Sound familiar) Then many OF THOSE SAME INDIVIDUALS took over running the government during W's occupation of the White House. Cheney, Rummy, Pearle, Wolfowitz etc.
The Common person/denominator THROUGH OUT ALL OF THE 2-3 DECADES of things being done in the shadows was HWBush. HW, previous to the Reagan years, when he was VP, ..........WAS DIRECTOR OF THE CIA.......
I am amazed that no one has ever even discussed that incredible coincidence, and put 2 and 2 together...........
captain queeg
(11,759 posts)I always said Cheney, Rumsfeld, and someone else was the real axis of evil. I cant remember now who I said was the third, I dont think it was Bush himself.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)mysteriously was able to get a heart transplant, it was (satire) reported that the surgeons were blown away when they removed his heart They said it was like nothing they had ever seen before........Solid Black, and as hard and cold as titanium..........
*Mysterious* heart transplant..........He was far over the age of being an eligible transplant candidate, his diet was in no way healthy, and some how he wasn't "added" to the bottom of the transplant eligibility list like everyone else, but was put on the top of the list for the next donated heart............
PatSeg
(49,574 posts)There were so many rotten people to choose from in that administration.
Arthur_Frain
(2,052 posts)As Ive only ever heard this in one place. Are you current ATC or retired?
GreenWave
(8,678 posts)The shame is about 40% of American "adults" are so brainwashed with idiocy, they view the Orange Menace with awe.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Yup, it was pretty hairy during the late 90's. My father and son were both going through serious brain events. Then the further shock of my baby sister dying of premature Alzheimer's in 2020. That really rocked me. But . . .
Such is life.
As for the continued Trump support? The cult label is the only thing that makes any sense. Sort of.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)Psychiatrists across the nation have said that if one exclusively listens to FOX News and RW Radio....it effectively is the same as techniques used by NOR-COMS and Tyrant rantings to brainwash it's populations......No different than dissenters in Communist controlled nations sent to "re-education" camps to be subjected to daily & nightly propoganda 24/7 for months on end......
LiberalFighter
(53,263 posts)The other 30% are the remaining Trump voters. Some of them will peel off.
More will peel off in swing states than red states.
lindysalsagal
(22,076 posts)About their bottom line with him in charge.
erronis
(16,582 posts)He's just useful for getting their Project 2025 crowd in the front door so they can dismantle the state.
Keep him alive and propped up until election day.
Farmer-Rick
(11,025 posts)Is Trump is unpredictable, he'll do anything if he thinks it will get him money or praise and he's very easily manipulated.
So, if Putin talks to him, he does what Putin says. If Jared talks to him, he does what Jared says. They can't surround him all the time.
Also he may just decide one night to take off his clothes and go wondering down the street. If he's paranoid, he would easily give the slip to his SS.
But I agree with you they have a plan for when the Stinking Nazi finally goes completely off, but like their other failed plans, it's not going to work.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Yet in large part they're embracing the chaos. Guess we shouldn't be surprised. Many industrialists and financiers, professionals of all sorts embraced Hitler's rise and dive into fascism. They thought they would benefit and could control the German 'clown'.
They were tragically wrong.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)Didn't work out for them to support evil.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Because those industries and industrial centers were complicit in Hitler's hideous governance and policies. The industrial leaders kept Hitler in power and prolonged the war and the whole obscene mess.
They deserved to be blown to smithereens.
The Germans were ultimately schooled about the indecent excesses of fascism; they learned in the most terrible way.
The fact that a swath of Americans would entertain a repeat is positively chilling.
We cannot let that happen.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)They reaped what they had sown.
Yes the entire German populace had a steep learning curve.
A very painful lesson.
Americans may get their own steep learning curve if they vote Trump into power again.
erronis
(16,582 posts)Not sure that the powers-that-be who want to take control of a country think much about the welfare of the population or even the country.
Was just reading Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands) about what Hitler and Stalin did to most of Europe. Damn depressing.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)He will demand a cut of their profits.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Cohen has said that if Trump were to take power again, he would immediately demand the Titans of Industry fork over a sizable portion of their wealth. The forced donations would go right into Trump's pocket and those of his most trusted sycophants.
The Putin Way.
One way of depleting the billionaire population. LOL. And what a shock treatment that would be!
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)They brown nose the billionaires to get into power.
Once in power they demand a cut of their profits and control over their businesses.
And you know what happens if they say no.
mopinko
(71,419 posts)national parks? oil and gas lands? the washington monument?
im hoping he has to sell mara lardo 1st.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)Some rich Russian oligarch probably already owns MAL.
Orrex
(63,796 posts)They're betting that if they flatter him and make him feel like a king, then he'll hand them the keys to the treasure.
I wish that there were any reason to think that they're mistaken.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)Fascist Corporations got away with anything and everything while he was in office........
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)Trump will demand some of their profits if he is back in the WH.
He has learned even more about screwing over everyone.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)You are most likely correct.........
I would think, that the Republican Party likes all that he has done to get them to this place, but doesn't like him ???????
Maybe they will force him to run with some candidate THEY choose as VP, then when they get Trump elected, (by hook or by crook), they will get Trump thrown out, so the person who is his VP will get in, and that person can appoint a new VP. ?????????
Clearly, The only reason that the Republicans have anything to do with Trump, is his massive collection of followers/voters. AND they are frightened to Death to do anything that will alienate them. However, after the next election, if they can install an authoritarian government, they won't need those or any voters for any future elections and will throw all of them under the bus......
No one is watching the work the Repubs are doing, (regarding their skullduggery ) in the U.S. Senate & U.S. House elections. Of course the 95+% Republican owned and operated U.S. Media is helping immensely.
I am thinking more and more every day about November 5th and 6th.........I TRULY BELIEVE, we will all witness something worse than ever seen before in the entire history of our beloved country........
As I sat and watched the entire J6th sedition taking place, I watched it unfold in horror. I had also watched Trump bloviating earlier, and watched him intentionally stirring up the crowd to violently go forth........
I have been watching the Republicans, and screaming my head off, starting a month before the Carter/Reagan election......
If I wrote about the last 40+ years, it would look like the good old day's multi volume encyclopedia Brittanica, volume after volume of different time periods starting in October of '79.
I would aptly title the collection: WHILE THE NATION SLEPT
Irish Dem, I truly enjoy and thank you for our back and forth.........and thx for your thinking and inputs....
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)Trump is playing by the fascist handbook now. Typically the fascist uses oligarchs (the wealthy and powerful) to rise to power. Once in power the fascist dictator demands a cut of their profits on a regular basis. Any complaints will be met harshly.
Yes I am sure that Trump's handlers, minders and benefactors see him as quite unlikeable and difficult. Trump is a loose cannon and keeping him on script can be a challenge. Luckily he is easily manipulated with flattery and money.
But yes as his mental illness and dementia get worse, he may become a liability.
I think it is 100% certain that Putin will have a hand in picking Trump's VP. We already know he helped pick out Pence. Paul Manafort is a Russian asset who worked directly with the Kremlin to get Trump installed into th WH. Manafort is the one who picked out Pence for Trump's VP.
Yes this is correct. A working voting system is no longer needed. The democratic process was no longer working for the GOP.
I know that Marc Elias, Democracy Docket, is a Washington DC based attorney who monitors the elections the best he can. I don't know how much he can do.
Yes we have to face the possibility that the MAGAs, Russia and China will pull out all the stops to get what they want.
I know I was horrified and shocked. No one stopped the insurrectionists. And then they strolled away to their cars without a care in the world. It was unbelievable.
Yes that election was a shocker. We knew Reagan would be bad, very bad. And we were right.
I would aptly title the collection: WHILE THE NATION SLEPT
A very sad encyclopedia. Societies rise and fall. We ride the tide of history like everyone else, like it or not.
Same here Denverpops. Thank you for the dialogue and ideas/input.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)I love your intelligent, well spoken feedback..............your comments stimulate my thinking and knowledge.....
Please keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)My thoughts and comments get better with the interaction.
I work on a number of research projects and have always done it solo, by myself.
I do good work on my own.
But I find that it is all kicked up significantly when I work within a group of intelligent
and thoughtful people. It keeps me on my toes and makes me look at factors I may have missed.
I usually learn something even from the posts I don't agree with.
But it is always a treat to find kindred spirits who see the world the same way I do.
Which admittedly is out of the mainstream most of the time.
kimbutgar
(22,705 posts)I doubt he will be able to cognitively be able to handle this debate.
I also saw my Mother go down with dementia and remember her forgetting to pay bills, repeating the same things over and over and then talking only briefly and going silent and mute. Tuesday will be 8 years my Mother died. I was able to keep her in her home with nice caregivers. But I see some of the same stuff in the orange monster going on now dementia wise.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Last edited Mon May 20, 2024, 09:11 AM - Edit history (1)
Those of us who have seen dementia up close and personal? The symptoms are all too evident.
And yes, if Trump participates in the debate(s), he will be fully exposed. Which is why I believe he'll break the deal.
He and his enablers already have regrets accepting Biden's offer. So far, Trump has announced he (unilaterally) accepted a debate date from Fox in October. And then yesterday, he bellowed his demands that Biden drug test before any debate.
I expect the lame excuses to continue and eventually he'll officially renege.
Because that's what the man does.
birdographer
(2,310 posts)I think the main problem will be that he will not have an audience of worshippers egging him on. He needs that validation. Secondary point is no teleprompter. He will know the topics, but we know he can't stay on point for more than 30 seconds without breaking away to talk about windmills and the 2020 election and this time he can whine some more about being freezing in the courtroom and maybe spend a moment on the late great Hannibal Lector. He will spend is allotted time spewing gibberish.
Having said that, there is no way he will be at that debate. And his minions will find a way to make that Biden's fault. And his moron cult members will spread that for weeks. With massive good luck he will either fall into the abyss or stroke out before November.
Captain Zero
(7,343 posts)always has been, except now +dementia
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)just like they did with "W" for the debates, and every reply will be transmitted for him to repeat verbatim.....
kimbutgar
(22,705 posts)mackdaddy
(1,561 posts)I don't think he has a great chance, but 2016 is still shocking.
Reagan was apparently in a serious decline for a least his last three years in office. Apparently VP Bush Sr. and Nancy pretty much took over and were running the white house then.
I think that there is a good chance Trump will stroke out before the election. Not sure who they well have take over then. Biden is doing a fabulous job as an administrator and leader of his White House team. But Mainstream Medial loves to cause a horse race when there is none.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)intheflow
(28,809 posts)Shes being groomed for it in her current RNC role.
k55f5r
(347 posts)we are talking about maga here.
intheflow
(28,809 posts)They want claim theyre not sexist, that would s actually work on some portion of the electorate. Of course, soon after the election, she would accidentally fall down some stairs and whatever white man VP she has would be elevated to Supreme Commander.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)See a chance to grab power when the King starts falling apart.
It's part of the treasonous plan.
haele
(13,288 posts)He and Meadows were "coordinating" inputs to Trump behind the scenes before, and though Meadows appears to be out of the picture, Miller is not.
Haele
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)before he completely breaks down?
LiberalFighter
(53,263 posts)Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)Joe knows what he is doing.
LiberalFighter
(53,263 posts)A running mate. Kamala Harris is out there campaigning. While TSF is stuck in Manhattan or Florida he doesn't have anyone going to rallies.
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)that due to *CITIZENS UNITED", any of the number of Republican Billionaires and other countries Oligarch Billionaires can make ONE donation that would overwhelm any and all Dem Donor's contributions????????
Countless Corporations in the U.S. and worldwide, could justify to their stock holders donating a Billion bucks to Trump's campaign considering what Trump HAS already done, and WILL DO for their bottom lines??????????
Especially considering that any person's or corporation's identity no longer has to be disclosed????????
Just look at the Russian Oligarchs/Putin that laundered hundreds of millions of dollars, through the NRA, to funnel vast financial resources to Republican Candidates during the 2016 election.............including a vast number of Republican Senator's campaigns...
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)but not to THIS extent.......growing more and more outspoken starting with Reagan, WBush, and then the grand Hurrah....Donald Trump.
some french guy? back in the 1700's when our forefathers were first starting this democracy stated:
"Democracy will work until some individuals or groups realize that they can vote themselves power and money."...
And Here We Are, Folks.................one millimeter away from a Corporate Fascist Tyranny........
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)The billionaires have aligned with the PutinGOP.
They are determined to be on the side of autocracy.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)along with every Corporation and their shareholders across the nation......
Before I left the Corporate world, I observed many CEO's and their Top executives and seriously wondered if in fact they were actually psychopaths, legally masquerading as Corporate Executives to be able to exist in society, and wondered how many would, if not for that fact, be in prison or dead as normal citizens.......definitely not LOL
Irish_Dem
(55,824 posts)I would put corporate CEOs in that category as well.
We are becoming like Russia.
A country of mobsters.
DENVERPOPS
(9,745 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,646 posts)pull down his pants and pee all over himself and they would still vote for him. I have a relative who voted for him twice. I asked him if he watched Biden's State of the Union address and he said it was a complete disaster. He said Biden didn't even know where he was at and couldn't complete a sentence during the entire speech. That's what we're up against. If Trump died tomorrow the day before the election the polls would show him beating Biden by three points.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)The enablers know what's up but they need to keep feeding the MAGA loyalists and True Believers a continuous diet of lies, projection and gas- lighting explanations. Anything less would break the trance and make the whole enterprise begin to wobble.
I have a cousin (husband as well) who is a die-hard Trumper. Her facebook entries shout out every conspiracy theory imaginable. It's truly shocking what people will buy into, the way they'll twist themselves into pretzels to defend the indefensible.
I wonder if your relative actually listened to the speech or merely relied on right-wing facebook entries, influencers and/or Fox News? I suspect that's the case with my cousin who's been marinated in far-right outrage and crazy talk.
Mr.Bill
(24,646 posts)I think it's just his defense mechanism for keeping me from having a meaningful discussion with him about it. Every time the subject of Biden comes up, he immediately says he is senile, doesn't know where he is and staggers around the white house bumping into walls all day. He's an otherwise intelligent person and runs a successful business. I just think he doesen't want to talk about it and admit he was wrong.
LiberalFighter
(53,263 posts)Tell him at that level of campaign the GOP hit certain key points that resonate with their targeted supporters. They will make claims that voters are not likely to confirm. And use fear.
Mr.Bill
(24,646 posts)If I do it enough I may eventually get through to him.
republianmushroom
(16,844 posts)LPBBEAR
(319 posts)I hate Trump and would enjoy seeing him doing an imitation of McConnell in front of a national audience that's not what happened in this incident.
It was just a clumsy attempt at being dramatic while waiting for the music to start.
I do hope that we get to see a "McConnell" moment soon and I hope millions are watching when it happens.
TheRickles
(2,320 posts)Same with the podium tip, IMO. There are plenty of valid examples out there of his decline, but not these two.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)The man's constantly confusing people and places, stumbling over pronunciations and grasping for certain words. He tries to correct himself, only to stumble once more, again and again and again.
This. Is. Not. Normal.
Joe Biden stumbles verbally but far less often and he's worked tirelessly to overcome a severe childhood stutter.
Though I didn't buy into the McConnell-like freeze description during this rally, I do believe Trump is getting worse and will continue to deteriorate.
It's not going to be pretty. But it is inevitable.
Phoenix61
(17,389 posts)I knew Trump had dementia the second I saw him use two hands pick up a glass of water and that was several years ago. IMHO hes past the tipping point. One moderate illness, flu, Covid, UTI etc, and hes toast. As one of my moms doctors said after a UTI that landed her in the hospital, people with dementia never get back to where they were before the illness.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)My sister contracted a severe UTI unbeknownst to her partner. She, too, landed in the hospital after which she spiraled straight down; the infection appeared to kickstart the bitter end note.
Six weeks later, she died.
It was shocking at the time but later I read it's not all unusual.
Sorry to read you're going through the same illness with your mom.
It's a terrible disease.
Phoenix61
(17,389 posts)It is indeed a terrible disease. Ive said I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy but Ive made an except for Trump. Its a fitting end for him.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)Because I've seen the disease process up close, my normal reaction is deep empathy.
Not for Donald Trump. The man has lived a selfish, amoral, greed-head life. He's hurt a lot of people.
The long-arm of Karma is now coming to get him. I will weep no tears.
FirstLight
(13,766 posts)My Dad suffered dementia and stroke and had similar experiences 😞
We waited too long to take action my sister and I think looking back...
But Tfg and traveling and all the stress and his horrible diet and atrocious health...
If he keeled over at any point it wouldn't be a surprise
3catwoman3
(25,177 posts)
his words/pronunciation for quite some time.
He has a very limited repertoire, both in vocabulary and topics. He says the same old shit over, and over, and over.
And what the hell did that I know words. I have the best words boast even mean?
malaise
(276,214 posts)For the truth
captain queeg
(11,759 posts)Now all my brother in laws have or had something. Parkinsons in the case of two of them (one has died). Another has early stage Alzheimers. Though unrelated my brother died of ALS. It just seems like a lot of mental type problems these days. It scares me to think about it. I dont have any dementia in my nuclear family so thats a relief, it does seem to be somewhat hereditary. I believe TFG has some family history? At any rate, I have the greatest sympathy for families of those who are affected (though I withhold my sympathy for the trump clan).
LiberalFighter
(53,263 posts)As well as friends and others.
peggysue2
(11,354 posts)A lot of people attribute it to advanced aging in the population. In my family, however, my father was the first member to be diagnosed. No one in the family could remember stories of dementia in the grands or great-grand relatives. And the family had a longevity factor; my father's grandfather lived to be 99 in an era when that was unusual.
My father was the first (although he lasted until the age of 86). Then it hit my generation--my sister first (dead at 67), and then at her funeral I was informed one of my first cousins had been diagnosed at age 60.
So, I don't know if the pattern is familial, environmental or combination of factors. Out of a lingering concern I had my DNA tested several years ago. The DNA markers were fortunately not there. My husband and kids all sighed with relief. But for me? There's always that niggling thought that it could happen, it might happen, etc.
If the goddesses are kind, they'll let me exit in some far gentler, quicker way.
captain queeg
(11,759 posts)My aunts and uncles and grandparents all died fairly young. Most before they turned (there were a couple outliers) 70, but many were heavy smokers and drinkers. My theory is that its mostly environmental, including our diets.
brewens
(15,258 posts)have some quality of life. Hopefully they can communicate with their friends and family as long as possible. You don't give that shit to someone that should be campaigning for president. The side-effects are no picnic, and we might be seeing some of that.
https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-dementia/treatments/medications-for-memory
Silent3
(15,909 posts)...simply because (I admit I'm just speculating) Trump could very well be taking sedatives to reduce the chances of out-of-control angry outbursts during the proceedings.
Attilatheblond
(3,903 posts)Would bet money they have him at least somewhat sedated. Throw in his night owl lifestyle and 'executive time' until after 11 AM while he was in the White House, and you know it's physically demanding for him to be up, dressed, and in court by 9 AM. Just being subjected to rules he isn't in control of has to start a rage in him every morning. Then, to have to sit down and shut up while others tell the truth about him, well, sedation is surely required.
When his hoped for multitudes of MAGA disruptors failed to show up in NYC, and no family showed up in early days of the trial, he must have been in a total panic. Seems safe bet that he is up at night calling 'his troops' to back him up in the courtroom then say what he can't afterwards and you're gonna get one sleepy defendant in court. The dark of night always seems to be when he does his worst, a tell that the monster of fear gets to him when he has no audience to play to and order around. He needs that affirmation that he, alone, is in charge and the infant in him needs a lot of nannies to come when he cries in the dark of solitude.
Trump insisting on Biden being drug tested before any debate is pure projection. He knows he takes 'enhancing' drugs before he gets to a podium and so figures everybody does it. Also, he will use Biden not being tested for drugs as an excuse to refuse to debate the man he knows is his better.
Celerity
(46,154 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(152,780 posts)bucolic_frolic
(46,142 posts)Torchlight
(4,192 posts)But the fact his glitches are happening over and over again, at an ever increasing rate, and with ever increasingly odd behavior, speaks to me (at its best) of a man just not capable anymore of the stress, demands, and mental discipline the job requires, a guy who just doesn't have what it takes.
I get that his flock's orthodoxy will force them to deny it until they end of their days, but I'm wondering if this is the summer Joe Sixpack finally sees and acts on it (just idle wondering, not a prediction or even a guess).