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The Contrarian

(87 posts)
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 11:49 AM Mar 2024

I have no problem at all with RFK Jr being on the ballot in all 50 states

If we are going to be the party that defends and protects democracy, they we should support people having options and free will to make their own choices. Thats what democracy is all about. Even if the options and choices are ones we don't like.

An editorial comment.

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I have no problem at all with RFK Jr being on the ballot in all 50 states (Original Post) The Contrarian Mar 2024 OP
IMO he'll take more votes from TFG than our side Freddie Mar 2024 #1
If polling can be believed... reality is the opposite. WarGamer Mar 2024 #3
I don't know how many fellow Dems are anti-vax, if any Freddie Mar 2024 #4
Some are. Not many, but there's a lunatic fringe Ocelot II Mar 2024 #7
Oh, I know one Polybius Mar 2024 #13
That's one big broad brush you got there MagickMuffin Mar 2024 #103
There some democrats that have been negatively affected by the vaccine Melon Mar 2024 #115
There will always be a few people who have adverse reactions Ocelot II Mar 2024 #117
Plenty of low-information Democrats too. All Mixed Up Mar 2024 #11
Low info voters just see the name and think he's a good Democrat. LeftInTX Mar 2024 #18
That's why I absolutely hated his hijacking JFKs campaign ad. woodsprite Mar 2024 #37
The Kennedy name won't mean much to younger voters MorbidButterflyTat Mar 2024 #72
I know one Diamond_Dog Mar 2024 #29
I suspect right now most of his support is from people who dislike both Trump and Biden and/or Jose Garcia Mar 2024 #56
Polling with reguard to third parties is almost always much higher than when people vote karynnj Mar 2024 #53
Earlier polls seemed to show that result, DemocraticPatriot Mar 2024 #30
If we are going to be a party that defends and protects democracy thucythucy Mar 2024 #2
With your reasoning, I guess you approve Ralph Nader running, allowing the jrthin Mar 2024 #5
SCOTUS gave FL to Bush. It wasn't Ralph Nader. nt Gore1FL Mar 2024 #9
Ahahahahahaha edisdead Mar 2024 #14
Gore got more votes than Bush in FL. Nader didn't stop them from counting. SCOTUS did. Gore1FL Mar 2024 #24
If he got more votes then why did he keep trying to get the votes recounted? AZSkiffyGeek Mar 2024 #27
He tried to get FL to recount so the votes that he had more of would be counted. Gore1FL Mar 2024 #41
Ralph Nader helped to create the problem (hanging chads) that jrthin Mar 2024 #19
Ralph Nader cause the crisis in the first place mcar Mar 2024 #22
Nader had 90,000 votes in Florida LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #43
In addition, Gore would have LIKELY have won NH without Nader on the ballot karynnj Mar 2024 #55
No, Ralph Nader cos us that election without his candidacy it would not have ended up at SCOTUS. Demsrule86 Mar 2024 #61
The problem with that narrative is that it disregards the literal GOP coup. Gore1FL Mar 2024 #65
How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore Celerity Mar 2024 #70
THIS!!! uponit7771 Mar 2024 #91
Nader's campaign manager wrote that November 2000 Salon piece. lapucelle Mar 2024 #109
I strongly disagree LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #6
Depending on the polls, he's polling anywhere between 7% and 18% Polybius Mar 2024 #15
RFK is a tool of Bannon/TFG. I remember Nader being used by Rove to defeat Al Gore LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #17
That is irrelevant to my statement Polybius Mar 2024 #20
Why do you want TFG to be re-elected? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #33
Why do you want democracy suppressed? Polybius Mar 2024 #45
So you want Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon to succeed in stealing the 2024 election? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #66
So what would you do, take every candidate off the ballot except for Biden? Polybius Mar 2024 #90
The issue is people like Karl Rove, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow using third parties to elect people like W and TFG LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #92
Putting a fake candidate on the ballot who' only purpose is to defeat the Democratic Demsrule86 Mar 2024 #57
Re-read why and you'll understand perfectly n/t Polybius Mar 2024 #88
I reread and your arguments do not support your claims LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #93
No I don't Polybius Mar 2024 #96
So you do NOT care if Harlan Crow, Steve Bannon and others steal elections using third party candidates? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #97
You misread Polybius Mar 2024 #98
Why are you defending Karl Rove, Putin, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #99
Why do you keep lying about my record? Polybius Mar 2024 #101
Why are you accusing people of hating democracy for not supporting Bannon's and Crow's efforts? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #102
Why are you continuing to blatantly lie about me? Polybius Mar 2024 #110
Why are you lying about people who oppose Bannon's efforts to steal the 2024 election? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #112
Ok, so you support having Biden run unopposed in the general election Polybius Mar 2024 #114
I believe in our democratic form of government and will oppose Bannon's and Stone's plan to destroy democracy LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #119
Bannon is a big part of Trump too Polybius Mar 2024 #120
If TFG is the nominee of the republican party, then he will be on the ballot LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #122
I know that Trump will be on the ballot if he's the nominee Polybius Mar 2024 #124
I believe in and support our democratic form of government and more importantly I understand how our system works LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #125
RFK Jr. is a terrible candidate with bad positions Polybius Mar 2024 #126
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #127
I believe in LettingMyPeopleVote for whoever they want Polybius Mar 2024 #129
Steven Bannon, Roger Stone and Putin thank you for your efforts to re-elect TFG and to destroy our democratic govt. LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #130
Tell them you're welcome Polybius Mar 2024 #131
"But for Ralph Nader and Jill Stein, there would not have been a Republican elected president this century." LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #132
That was a delayed response Polybius Mar 2024 #133
I was in the voter protection war room a couple of days LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #134
After last night's speech, there's nothing to worry about Polybius Mar 2024 #135
Kennedy said he cut off contact with Bannon. womanofthehills Mar 2024 #108
Follow the money. RFK JR. is being funded by TFG supporters LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #113
Kennedy recently said he will not go on Bannon's podcast again womanofthehills Mar 2024 #85
Cheryl told Kennedy she would divorce him womanofthehills Mar 2024 #86
I don't know if you have a point not but I do know... lame54 Mar 2024 #32
Oh, he stinks Polybius Mar 2024 #46
Nope, not hard at all. lark Mar 2024 #35
He's on the ballot in AZ and GA. He's working on MI. That's all that matters. LeftInTX Mar 2024 #95
He's also on the ballot in Hawaii, Utah & NH womanofthehills Mar 2024 #106
He's fallen to under 5%, at least among the 538 polls. lees1975 Mar 2024 #58
HarrisX poll from yesterday he's at 14% in a 5 way race. WarGamer Mar 2024 #71
Kennedy should not make the ballot and Biden should not debate him...he will receive no delegates Demsrule86 Mar 2024 #59
Does anyone really think there will be debates? womanofthehills Mar 2024 #107
So then you think he shouldn't be on the ballot? The Contrarian Mar 2024 #63
RFK Jr. is being used as a tool to facilitate the stealing of the 2024 election LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #64
All you need to know about Jr... sheshe2 Mar 2024 #105
Democracy is about electing leaders not wasting your vote on delusional charlatans bucolic_frolic Mar 2024 #8
In a very recent Emerson poll nevergiveup Mar 2024 #10
A vote for RFK Jr is a vote for Trump. gab13by13 Mar 2024 #12
If a demented rapist can run for office limbicnuminousity Mar 2024 #16
Please define "have no problem" Silent3 Mar 2024 #21
I find efforts to actively block RFK Jr. from access to the ballot distaseful The Contrarian Mar 2024 #23
Where did I say anything about "take steps to make sure this guy (RFK Jr.) isn't on the ballot"? Silent3 Mar 2024 #25
We Want to Protect Our Democracy From TSF & Fucking Cha Mar 2024 #87
Are you kidding me. He isn't running as a Democrat, he is running as a third party candidate JohnSJ Mar 2024 #26
So then he shouldn't be on the ballot? The Contrarian Mar 2024 #42
I didn't say that. This is a forum to SUPPORT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES. JohnSJ Mar 2024 #47
Oh, please MorbidButterflyTat Mar 2024 #73
RF Kjr is a GD 3rd Party Rat Fucker.. like Jill Stein in 2016 Cha Mar 2024 #83
It's amazing how some folks will still argue "Nader didn't cause Gore to lose Florida, the Supreme Court did!" sop Mar 2024 #28
Recent polling indicates he is taking more votes from us than the right pinkstarburst Mar 2024 #31
FWIW, I know a woman who voted for Trump Quakerfriend Mar 2024 #36
How can you tell MorbidButterflyTat Mar 2024 #74
Because- many polls have Biden vs Trump womanofthehills Mar 2024 #82
Nah, hard pass awesomerwb1 Mar 2024 #34
Kennedy is all over the internet- on many podcasts womanofthehills Mar 2024 #44
Everyone has a podcast MorbidButterflyTat Mar 2024 #75
Fuck the GD Puttin Talking Points 3rd Party Asshole, Rat Fucker Kjr. Cha Mar 2024 #84
He will get some black votes Bmoboy Mar 2024 #38
I threw away my vote in 1980 on a 3rd party no_hypocrisy Mar 2024 #39
I knew some people who supported him. Did not know Roger Stone was behind it. LeftInTX Mar 2024 #94
No Labels is having trouble recruiting a candidate, maybe comradebillyboy Mar 2024 #40
I support DEMOCRATS, not third party spoilers, and why should I fight for them to be on the ballot? JohnSJ Mar 2024 #48
Yeah agreed, that's kind of the point of Democratic Underground - to elect Democrats emulatorloo Mar 2024 #54
You have no problem with him breaking election laws to do so? W_HAMILTON Mar 2024 #49
Same thing I thought! redqueen Mar 2024 #50
Isn't That Nice? MineralMan Mar 2024 #51
But uh oh... MorbidButterflyTat Mar 2024 #76
At DU we support Democratic candidates, not Republican-backed Trojan Horses. emulatorloo Mar 2024 #52
Do I remember that there are only a few states that split their electoral votes? mahina Mar 2024 #60
Maine and Nebraska are the only states that split electoral votes LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #67
Sure. Too bad our elections allow plurality winners. Voltaire2 Mar 2024 #62
Bannon encouraged RFK Jr. to run so he could be a 'chaos agent' and 'stoke anti-vax sentiment.' LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #68
Here we go again. Sparkly Mar 2024 #69
. Scrivener7 Mar 2024 #77
Splitting the progressive vote is not defending mzmolly Mar 2024 #78
Mission accomplished ornotna Mar 2024 #79
That is So Much Baloney.. RF Kjr is NOT a Democrat.. he's a GD Cha Mar 2024 #80
Let's be clear; nobody is rigging the ballots to keep him off... brooklynite Mar 2024 #81
One person, one vote, one time. n/t Crunchy Frog Mar 2024 #89
What we need to do is fight for ranked voting nationwide TexasBushwhacker Mar 2024 #100
Remember when Kanye West had a FAKE third party in 2020 (run by the GOP) to siphon Black male voters? LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #104
I'd rather "demand" the end of the Electoral College. And I'd also * Oopsie Daisy Mar 2024 #111
NOPE. A vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. RFK Jr is helping Trump. nt Baltimike Mar 2024 #116
I'm confused angrychair Mar 2024 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author tenderfoot Mar 2024 #121
This makes me smile LetMyPeopleVote Mar 2024 #123
Did you notice the support he got in the thread? Kingofalldems Mar 2024 #128
Oh so very "edgy!" John Shaft Mar 2024 #136

Ocelot II

(122,797 posts)
7. Some are. Not many, but there's a lunatic fringe
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:06 PM
Mar 2024

that are suspicious of all established medicine - the woo crowd that's into crystals and homeopathic "medicine" and that still believe without any evidence that vaccinations cause autism.

MagickMuffin

(17,342 posts)
103. That's one big broad brush you got there
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 05:48 PM
Mar 2024


I always vote for Democrats and I’m into the woo crowd and therefore on the lunatic fringe!





Melon

(212 posts)
115. There some democrats that have been negatively affected by the vaccine
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 09:33 PM
Mar 2024

The numbers may not be high but it’s also not a myth. It doesn’t mean we aren’t democrat.

Ocelot II

(122,797 posts)
117. There will always be a few people who have adverse reactions
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 10:56 PM
Mar 2024

to some vaccines. If you had a reaction, though, that doesn’t mean that vaccines are bad or even that particular one is. It was a rare individual reaction. Anti-vaxxers are opposed to all vaccines, for reasons that are ignorant and not based on science. Most Democrats are accepting of science.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
11. Plenty of low-information Democrats too.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:10 PM
Mar 2024

They may not even know he's anti-vax. They just see his name and what it's associated with and support him by default.

Or they know but vaccines aren't their top issue.

LeftInTX

(32,180 posts)
18. Low info voters just see the name and think he's a good Democrat.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:30 PM
Mar 2024

We had to set someone straight about him here.

woodsprite

(12,319 posts)
37. That's why I absolutely hated his hijacking JFKs campaign ad.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:55 PM
Mar 2024

People will only see the name and think he’s a new JFK.

MorbidButterflyTat

(2,666 posts)
72. The Kennedy name won't mean much to younger voters
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 08:02 PM
Mar 2024

and people who remember the difference between John and Bobby Kennedy, know better.

Jose Garcia

(3,049 posts)
56. I suspect right now most of his support is from people who dislike both Trump and Biden and/or
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:54 PM
Mar 2024

have fond memories of JFK and RFK.

karynnj

(60,094 posts)
53. Polling with reguard to third parties is almost always much higher than when people vote
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:49 PM
Mar 2024

I suspect that there might even be a difference between Democratic leaning RFK JR voters and Trump leaning ones.

 

DemocraticPatriot

(5,410 posts)
30. Earlier polls seemed to show that result,
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:28 PM
Mar 2024

and that results would seem to make more sense, with Jr being an anti-vaxxer and all---

but more recent polls seem to show him taking more votes from President Biden, disturbingly enough...


thucythucy

(8,819 posts)
2. If we are going to be a party that defends and protects democracy
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 11:53 AM
Mar 2024

we need to be sure that Donald Trump is defeated in November, and that the GOP is driven into political exile until it abandons its attempt to overturn the Constitution.

Anything that interferes with or compromises that effort is highly unwelcome.

Another editorial comment.

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,685 posts)
27. If he got more votes then why did he keep trying to get the votes recounted?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:14 PM
Mar 2024

Gore DIDN'T get more votes, otherwise he would've won when SCOTUS shut down the counting.

Gore1FL

(22,146 posts)
41. He tried to get FL to recount so the votes that he had more of would be counted.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:00 PM
Mar 2024

The media recount demonstrated this.

jrthin

(4,982 posts)
19. Ralph Nader helped to create the problem (hanging chads) that
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:31 PM
Mar 2024

forced the election into the hands of the Supremes.

mcar

(43,851 posts)
22. Ralph Nader cause the crisis in the first place
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:48 PM
Mar 2024

After promising to not campaign in battleground states. He lied and did so anyway. Fck that guy.

karynnj

(60,094 posts)
55. In addition, Gore would have LIKELY have won NH without Nader on the ballot
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:53 PM
Mar 2024

That would have been enough even if FL cheated.

Demsrule86

(71,038 posts)
61. No, Ralph Nader cos us that election without his candidacy it would not have ended up at SCOTUS.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:10 PM
Mar 2024

It wouldn't have been that close.

Gore1FL

(22,146 posts)
65. The problem with that narrative is that it disregards the literal GOP coup.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:34 PM
Mar 2024

2020 differs from 2000 only in that they didn't get away with it in 2020.

Celerity

(47,823 posts)
70. How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 07:09 PM
Mar 2024


Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush.

If the vice president had locked up his party's traditional base in the Sunshine State, the election wouldn't be tied up in the courts.


https://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 28, 2000

snip

How is the Democratic Party establishment dealing with this crisis of legitimacy and its own declining numbers? By blaming Ralph Nader. Partisans wail that Nader denied Gore the few hundred votes he needed to prevail on election night. Indeed, Nader polled some 95,000 votes in Florida, which prompted New York socialite and Hillary Clinton moneyman Harry Evans to blurt angrily, "I want to kill Ralph Nader." Hold your horses, please. Ralph's not the message -- he's only the messenger. Again, the politicos and pundits are ignoring another set of election statistics in Florida that are way more revealing about the core weakness of the corporate Democrats. I'm grateful to Tim Wise, a Nashville writer and activist who dug into the Florida tallies and exit polls to find some stunning results that refute the "Ralph did it" assault. Wise's full report will appear in a forthcoming issue of Z magazine, but the essence of it is that Gore was the problem, not Nader. Start with two constituent groups that Democratic nominees usually win in the Sunshine State:

1) Seniors. By a 51-47 percent margin, Gore lost the over-65 vote in Florida. Bush got 67,000 more senior votes than Gore did, even after all the Democratic scare talk about vanishing Social Security benefits. Had Gore simply broken even with this constituency, he would have won.

2) White Women. This group typically votes Democratic in Florida, or splits evenly. Gore lost them to Bush by 53-44 percent. Had he gotten 50 percent of these votes, he'd have added 65,000 votes to his total -- plenty enough to have put the state in his column election night.

Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader's votes wouldn't have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

Why would Democrats and liberals vote for (gag) Bush? Some Democrats may have been so appalled by Clinton's personal behavior and Gore's fundraising escapades that they flipped all the way to Bush, while others found no defining economic difference between Gore and Bush, so they voted on the basis of George W.'s (false) claim to be the integrity candidate. Some liberals noted that Bush actually has proposed less of an increase in the Pentagon's already-bloated budget than Gore did, and some were so angered by the vice president's atrocious record of selling out working families, environmentalists and farmers that they wanted to give him the double-whammy of taking a vote from him and giving it to Bush. In any event, Gore failed to close the deal with these voters -- a fact that has nothing to do with Nader.

snip

lapucelle

(19,700 posts)
109. Nader's campaign manager wrote that November 2000 Salon piece.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 08:24 PM
Mar 2024

It would have helped if Jim Hightower had provided a link to his data.

I guess it was easier for Hightower to blame Democrats than to take responsibility and apologize for being an architect of Ralph Nader's third party vanity campaign. Nader and Hightower knew what was at stake.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
6. I strongly disagree
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:02 PM
Mar 2024

RFK Jr. is a tool of Bannon and company who is trying to re-elect TFG.





I do NOT support a dirty trick by Bannon to re-elect TFG

Polybius

(19,105 posts)
15. Depending on the polls, he's polling anywhere between 7% and 18%
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:22 PM
Mar 2024

Can't stand the guy, but it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be on the ballot in all 50 states. He may even make the debates.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
17. RFK is a tool of Bannon/TFG. I remember Nader being used by Rove to defeat Al Gore
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:28 PM
Mar 2024

I will never forgive Nader. Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html


Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

Why do you want TFG to be re-elected?

Polybius

(19,105 posts)
20. That is irrelevant to my statement
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:33 PM
Mar 2024

I support democracy, even if that means putting people I can't stand on the ballot. He's polling on average over 10%, and you want him off the ballot? Did you want Ross Perot kicked off too? How about the Libertarian and Green candidates? If you answered yes to all, then I commend you for your consistence.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
33. Why do you want TFG to be re-elected?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:38 PM
Mar 2024

The facts presented are indeed relevant to this thread. I believe in our democratic form of government and Bannon/TFG are out to destroy this form of government. Rove was able to use Nader in 2000 to defeat Al Gore and as a result we lost Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, went to war in Iraq based on lies and had Citizens United become the law of the land.

Just as Rove funded Nader, Bannon and right wing sources are funding RFK Jr.




No labels is a GOP/TFG scam to help TFG win. Rove used and funded Nader in 2000 and TFG was elected due to Jill Stein and Sarandon. The GOP uses third parties to steal elections.


https://newrepublic.com/article/172059/no-labels-took-100000-clarence-thomas-buddy-harlan-crow

The New Republic obtained a document with figures showing that between 2019 and 2021, Crow donated over $130,000 to No Labels. Crow was considered a “whale”-level donor by the organization—an august status reserved for only the most generous donors. Crow referred other donors to No Labels, ones who earned the “whale,” “dolphin,” and lesser “minnow” status. By 2021, Crow had steered nearly two dozen other donors to No Labels, the information provided to The New Republic shows.

Officially, No Labels’ mission is to create a space for moderates on both the left and the right to come together and find solutions above the partisan fray. But the group has managed to anger Democrats at times by endorsing conservative candidates such as then-Representative Cory Gardner in Colorado, who was running for Senate against moderate Democrat Mark Udall in 2014. No Labels also labeled Donald Trump a “problem solver” in the early days of the 2016 campaign because he signed a piece of paper No Labels circulated supposedly committing to enacting certain reforms if elected.....

Crow is the Texas billionaire who was the subject of an extensive ProPublica investigation into his ties to Thomas. In secret, Crow had been giving lavish gifts to the high court justice and bought a home that Thomas owned with his mother and brother. Thomas did not disclose those gifts, which is most likely a violation of federal law......

There’s an important through line between No Labels and Crow, and it’s not a passion for bipartisanship. Rather, it’s indulging conservatives under the flag of bipartisanship. They both argue that the best solutions are ones born out of moderation, with both Democrats and Republicans involved. But Crow’s ardor for Thomas, who has been found to be the most conservative justice on the bench by one academic analysis, doesn’t exactly square with love of bipartisanship, and the actions by No Labels suggest that the group would rather create an opening for conservatives to thrive.

Bush won in 2000 due to Rove funding Nader. TFG won in 2016 due to Russia and Jill Stein. Harlan Crow is trying to help TFG in 2024 with this faux third party

Do you want to lose our democratic form of government? You may want to look at Project 2025 to see what will happen to our form of government if Bannon succeeds in using a patsy like RFK Jr. to re-elect TFG.




You may be comfortable with TFG being re-elected due to the use of third parties by Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon. I am not comfortable.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
66. So you want Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon to succeed in stealing the 2024 election?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:37 PM
Mar 2024

Are you also in favor of the destruction of our democratic form of government and want to see TFG installed as a dictator? I like our democratic form government and would not want to see Bannon and Crow succeed in their efforts to install a dictator in the White House. Why do you want to reward Bannon's and Crow's efforts.

Polybius

(19,105 posts)
90. So what would you do, take every candidate off the ballot except for Biden?
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 02:16 AM
Mar 2024

What about Trump, the Libertarian, and Green Party candidates? Should they be on the ballot? All three are bad.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
92. The issue is people like Karl Rove, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow using third parties to elect people like W and TFG
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:33 AM
Mar 2024

You may have been happy to see Karl Rove fund the Green Party/Nader in 2000 in order to elect George W. Bush. see https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18734238 Due to Rove's funding of Nader, we got Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq based on lies.

Putin used Jill Stein to defeat Hillary in 2016.


Stein and Putin gave the GOP control of the SCOTUS and the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Now Bannon, Harlan Crow and right wingers are funding RFK Jr. and No Labels.

I object to cynical and unethical funding of third parties for the goal of subverting the election.

I am worried that RFK Jr. and No Labels may re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government. Do you want TFG to be re-elected and do you want to see our Democratic form of government end?

Demsrule86

(71,038 posts)
57. Putting a fake candidate on the ballot who' only purpose is to defeat the Democratic
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:57 PM
Mar 2024

candidate has nothing to do with democracy...Kennedy hangs out with Bannon and accepts money from Republican donors. I have no idea why you seem to support such things...but I do wonder.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
93. I reread and your arguments do not support your claims
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:35 AM
Mar 2024

Do you approve of Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using RFK Jr. and No Labels to re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government?

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
97. So you do NOT care if Harlan Crow, Steve Bannon and others steal elections using third party candidates?
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 12:15 PM
Mar 2024

I have been volunteering in voter protection for many years. The use of third party candidates to steal elections is a real problem. Karl Rove funded and supported Nader in 2000. Putin supported and use Jill Stein in 2016 and now Bannon and Harlan Crow are busy. Why will not recognize the facts that people like Rove, Putin, Crow and Bannon are engaging in election fraud by supporting bogus candidates? Do you want Trump to be re-elected? Are you hoping to see our Democratic form of government end?

Polybius

(19,105 posts)
98. You misread
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 12:18 PM
Mar 2024

My "No, I do not" answer was in response to the question asking "Do you approve of Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using RFK Jr. and No Labels to re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government?"

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
99. Why are you defending Karl Rove, Putin, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow?
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 01:31 PM
Mar 2024

You want to put RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states in order to make Putin, Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon happy and aid their efforts to re-elect TFG. Why do you want to destroy our democratic form of government? Are you happy that Rove's funding of Nader in 2000 resulted in Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq? Are you happy that Putin's efforts to aid Jill Stein resulted in the overturn of Roe. v. Wade and rape victims being forced to bear the children of their rapists? Are you happy that Bannon and Harlan Crow are going to use RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election and destroy our Democratic form of government?

I am not in favor of allowing people like Rove, Putin, Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using third party candidates to steal elections.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
102. Why are you accusing people of hating democracy for not supporting Bannon's and Crow's efforts?
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 05:32 PM
Mar 2024

Your accusations that people who do not support Steve Bannon's and Harlan Crow's efforts to steal the 2024 election of not supporting democracy are so sad that they are funny. You continue to advocate that we need to support Bannon's and Crow's efforts to steal the next election and if we do not agree with these efforts, we are not supporting democracy.

RFK Jr. is the just the latest chapter of gop goons using third party candidates to steal election. In addition to the successful efforts in the 2000 and 2016 elections, TFG and Roger Stone tried this trick with Kanye West hoping to peel off African American votes in the 2020 election.



In 2016, the GOP and their affiliates worked hard to get Kanye West onto the ballot to try to steal the 2020 election.


https://www.npr.org/2020/08/13/901534846/heres-how-republicans-are-boosting-kanye-west-s-presidential-campaign

Here's a look at some of the efforts to get West on state ballots:

VERMONT
Republican Chuck Wilton originally signed on as one of the three electors for West in Vermont. He also was elected by the Vermont Republican Party months before to be a delegate for Trump at the Republican National Convention, along with his wife, Wendy, a Trump appointee......

WISCONSIN
Lane Ruhland, a former legal counsel for the Wisconsin Republican Party, was seen last week dropping off signatures for West to qualify in Wisconsin.

Ruhland, who did not respond to a request for comment, represented the Trump campaign in a lawsuit at the end of July......

OHIO
An attorney at the Ohio law firm Isaac Wiles filed West's paperwork in the state. That firm has reportedly received thousands of dollars in legal consulting fees from the state House and Senate Republican campaign committees since 2015.

COLORADO
ABC reported that of Colorado's nine electors for West, four are current or former GOP operatives, including a former Colorado Republican political director.

Vice News reported that Rachel George, a GOP strategist who runs her own communications firm and had worked for Republican Sen. Cory Gardner when he was in the House, sent an email to contacts asking them to sign up to support West.....

Gillespie said there are dimensions to establishment Republicans' support of West that go beyond political strategy.

"I'm actually really concerned about the ethics of it — not just the allegation of trying to support a third party candidate to play spoiler in an election, but just the exploitation of taking advantage of somebody who's obviously not gotten his mental illness under control," she said.

Bannon, Crow, TFG and Putin would all love to see RFK Jr. to be on the ballot in all 50 states. These groups are working hard to get RFK Jr and No Labels onto the ballot in a number of states. This trick did not work in 2020 and hopefully this tactic will not work this cycle.

Again, why are you supporting the efforts of Putin, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow to steal the upcoming election? The GOP operatives who were assisting Kanye West in the 2020 election also claimed that they were supporting democracy.

Accusing me of not supporting democracy is amusing. I have been active in voter protection efforts since the 2024 election and just spent a couple of hours this week getting ready to work in a virtual war room on primary day. One thing about Democratic voter protection efforts, is that we do not care who we are helping but only that all persons who are eligible to vote get to vote. Over the years I have helped a number of republicans in getting their votes counted.

Again, your claims that anyone who does not support getting RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states does not support democracy reminds of some comments made by Roger Stone and Steve Bannon.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
112. Why are you lying about people who oppose Bannon's efforts to steal the 2024 election?
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 04:05 PM
Mar 2024

You are claiming that people who have legitimate reasons for opposing the use of RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election do NOT believe in democracy. I simply find the claim that anyone who disagrees with your position does not believe in democracy to be sad and wrong. I was headed to Florida in 2020 for the revised/additional recount when Bush v. Gore came down. I did go to Florida as part of the Kerry Edwards voter protection team and I have been working on voter protection ever since. I will be a war room captain for the primary on Tuesday.

I simply find the claims that democracy requires RFK to be on the ballot in all 50 states to be wrong and ignores that the only persons who are pushing RFK Jr. are people like Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn and Putin.



Any candidate backed by both Steve Bannon and Roger Stone has to be garbage.

In a surprise to exactly nobody, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to announce that he's running as an independent.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has ZERO chance of winning.
A vote for him is a completely wasted vote.

I'll say it again: If you plan on voting for that conspiracy theory clown, you're voting for trump.

Don't make the same 2016 mistakes in 2024, please.

As has been pointed out on this thread, Karl Rove used Nader in 2000, Putin used Stein in 2016 and TFG attempted to use Kanye West to steal elections in the past. If you need further proof, look at who is funding RFK Jr.



Again, I have trouble seeing why anyone who actually cares about democracy would support efforts to steal the 2024 election by supporting RFK Jr. You have presented no facts to support your claims and so it is difficult to understand how anyone who claims to care about democracy would want RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states. I would love to see you try to support your claims.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
119. I believe in our democratic form of government and will oppose Bannon's and Stone's plan to destroy democracy
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 11:16 AM
Mar 2024

I believe in our democratic form of government, and I have been working to protect this form for a very long time. Our democratic form of government is under attack by Putin, Roger Stone and Steve Bannon who are, with your approval, using RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election and destroy our democratic form of government. If Putin's, Stone's and Bannon's plan are successful, TFG will use Project 2025 to eliminate our democratic form of government. That is not acceptable to me which is why I am opposed to the plan to use RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election. Under your definition of democracy, Putin's, Bannon's and Stone's plan is okay. I disagree.
 
President Biden is not running unopposed even if the primaries. President Biden will be running in November in a race that will determine if we get keep our democratic form of government. If President Biden loses in the November general election, we can kiss our democratic form of government goodbye. You may be happy with that result, but I and others will be fighting to preserve our democratic form of government.

I am still sad that you are pushing the lie that anyone who disagrees with your view that RFK Jr. needs to be on the ballot in all 50 states does not believe in democracy. I disagree with your "definition" of democracy. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Flynne and Putin are pushing RFK Jr. to try to steal the election just like Rove did in 2000 with Nader and Putin did with Stein in 2016. I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 National Convention where Putin released hacked materials to help TFG. I saw first-hand how effective Putin's efforts were at the convention. In 2020, TFG tried to use Kanye West to take votes from President Biden. Luckily the 2020 attempt to steal the election failed.

This cycle, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone and company are pushing RFK Jr. to steal the election.




It is sad that you are supporting the efforts of Bannon, Stone and Putin to steal the 2024 election. I actually believe in democracy and I want to defend out democratic form of government.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
122. If TFG is the nominee of the republican party, then he will be on the ballot
Mon Mar 4, 2024, 12:14 PM
Mar 2024

The 2024 election will be between President Biden who supports our democratic form of government vs. TFG who will destroy our democratic form of government. Putin, Bannon and Stone want to steal this election by using RFK Jr. as tool to steal this election. We saw this work in 2000 with Rove funding Nader and in 2016 with Putin supporting Jill Stein and otherwise working to steal the election.

I am shocked that any person who believes in democracy and protecting our democratic form of government would support Putin's, Bannon's and Stone's efforts to use RFK Jr. to steal this election.



This election will be the most important election of our lifetime because democracy is on the ballot

My definition of democracy means that we should not support attempts to steal this election. You seem to have a very different definition of democracy.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
125. I believe in and support our democratic form of government and more importantly I understand how our system works
Tue Mar 5, 2024, 08:08 AM
Mar 2024

I both understand and support our democratic form of government. I have worked on voter protection efforts for year and right now I am the DNC LBJ voter protection database and a zoom call for statewide voter protection for the party. I have had a couple of poll watchers check in with me already.

Since you appear confused about our system, America has a two-party system which each major party being on the ballot in all 50 states and relevant territories. That means that the nominees of each party will be on the ballot without having to go through the ballot access process for non-major party candidates. Even if TFG drops out due to medical, legal or financial conditions, there will be a GOP on the ballot in November. Some are speculating that Nikki Haley has stayed in just in case TFG has to drop out so that she will be the heir apparent.

Unlike Bannon, Stone, Putin and others who are trying to use RFK Jr. to cheat, I support the two-party system. The Republican Party will have a nominee on the ballot in November in addition to a handful of minor/third/fringe parties. Given yesterday's ruling by the SCOTUS, it is clear that we cannot count on the courts to prevent TFG from being re-elected and must work hard to keep this election from being stolen such as what happen in 2000 with Nader and 2016 with Putin/Stein. That is one reason why I am in the statewide virtual boiler/war room right now.

The only persons who are pushing RFK Jr. to get onto the ballot in all 50 states are people who what to cheat the system such Putin, Roger Stone and Steve Bannon.



I am sad that you are pushing for RFK Jr. to be on the ballot in all 50 states and that you are supporting the efforts of Putin, Stone, Bannon and TFG to steal this election.

Again, just because you are supporting Bannon's efforts to steal this election does not mean that I do. President Joe Biden is going to running against the GOP nominee and a couple of third party/minor/fringe candidates. I support President Biden running against other candidates. This is how our system is supposed to work.

Again, good luck with your efforts to help Bannon and company try to steal the election with RFK Jr.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
127. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
Tue Mar 5, 2024, 10:41 AM
Mar 2024

The only reason Bannon, Stone and Putin are supporting RFK Jr. is to try to steal this election and some big money is being used for this purpose . You may support these efforts but I will do my best to speak out against these attempts to steal this election.



Bannon , Stone and the TFG donors supporting RFK Jr.'s efforts to get onto as many state ballots as possible appreciate your support.

Polybius

(19,105 posts)
129. I believe in LettingMyPeopleVote for whoever they want
Tue Mar 5, 2024, 11:20 PM
Mar 2024

Even if that choice stinks. Hey, it's democracy. It's not always pretty.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
130. Steven Bannon, Roger Stone and Putin thank you for your efforts to re-elect TFG and to destroy our democratic govt.
Wed Mar 6, 2024, 12:15 AM
Mar 2024

It was not pretty when Rove used and funded Nader in 2000. As a result of people like Michael Moore and Bill Maher, we got Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq. In 2016, Putin funded Stein and used WikiLeaks to defeat Hillary Clinton and as a result of Susan Sarandon, Cornel West, the DSA and others we got TFG which in turn lead to the gutting of Roe and the most corrupt SCOTUS in history.

Putin, Bannon and Stone are counting of people not caring about democracy and are happy that there are people who will not opposed their evil plans. I am glad that you are happy doing nothing to oppose the efforts to destroy our democratic form of government. "I know you're tired, discouraged, and don't know the impact one person can make, but evil doesn't rest while you ignore it."


Polybius

(19,105 posts)
131. Tell them you're welcome
Wed Mar 6, 2024, 12:18 AM
Mar 2024

LetTheAmericanPeopleVote, and hopefully it will be Biden. I'm pretty confident that it will be.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
132. "But for Ralph Nader and Jill Stein, there would not have been a Republican elected president this century."
Fri Mar 8, 2024, 12:54 PM
Mar 2024

You should be happy that the plan to re-elect TFG may work using RFK Jr. and third party candidates. Steve Bannon must be happy to have your backing in his plan to re-elect TFG


LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
113. Follow the money. RFK JR. is being funded by TFG supporters
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 04:21 PM
Mar 2024

I do not believe RFK Jr. in part because Bannon/Stone and company are using TFG supporters to fund RFK Jr.






https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/02/robert-f-kennedy-jr-republican-donor-super-pac
A Super Pac affiliated with Robert F Kennedy Jr, the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist running for president as a Democrat, owes half its cash to a longtime Republican mega-donor and Trump backer, according to campaign finance reports filed on Monday.

The group, American Values 2024, reported receiving $5m from Timothy Mellon, a wealthy businessman from Wyoming, according to NBC News and Politico. It registered with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) in April, days before Kennedy officially launched his campaign, according to FEC records.

Mellon, 81, is the grandson of Andrew Mellon, a former US treasury secretary who made his fortune in banking. The Texas Tribune reported that Mellon, a top donor to Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election effort, supported controversial immigration laws and was responsible for 98% of the contributions to the Texas governor Greg Abbott’s fund to build a border wall. Mellon, who twice gave $10m to the Trump-aligned America First Action Super Pac in 2020, also used racist stereotypes to describe Black people in an autobiography he self-published in 2015.

Bannon, Roger Stone and Flynne are supporting RFK Jr. just as Rove supported Nader in 2000 and TFG supported West in 2020.


RFK Jr. is merely the tool of Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and TFG to try to steal the 2024 election

womanofthehills

(9,460 posts)
85. Kennedy recently said he will not go on Bannon's podcast again
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:37 PM
Mar 2024

He said he loves Cheryl & Cheryl said she will divorce him if he goes on Bannon’s podcast again.

womanofthehills

(9,460 posts)
86. Cheryl told Kennedy she would divorce him
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:41 PM
Mar 2024

If he ever goes on Bannon’s podcast again. Kennedy recently said he loves his wife - so he will never do a second podcast with Bannon.

lark

(24,512 posts)
35. Nope, not hard at all.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:44 PM
Mar 2024

He would have to have enough signatures in all 50 state & I pray hard that never happens as it will give the election to tsf. Kennedy has to earn the right to be on the ballots, and it would tear down our democracy by allowing tsf to win - which is why he's being paid to do this.

womanofthehills

(9,460 posts)
106. He's also on the ballot in Hawaii, Utah & NH
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 07:04 PM
Mar 2024

And about to get on in MI and South Carolina. He has lots of volunteers who are getting him on the ballots.

lees1975

(6,234 posts)
58. He's fallen to under 5%, at least among the 538 polls.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:57 PM
Mar 2024

hasn't been at 7% for more than a month now. A fading fad.

Demsrule86

(71,038 posts)
59. Kennedy should not make the ballot and Biden should not debate him...he will receive no delegates
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:03 PM
Mar 2024

and is not a Democratic candidate. He is a has-been whose sole purpose is to defeat the Democratic candidate Joe Biden. Kennedy's so-called candidacy should not be supported by any Democrat.

I do not believe polls that show him with any sort of support (self-serving bullshit polls). Trump must lose...so spare me the high-minded rhetoric if you don't mind. I would appreciate it if some would stop inflating Kennedy's support and chances. He has neither support nor a chance to win the presidency. His only purpose is to hurt Joe Biden.

LetMyPeopleVote

(157,834 posts)
64. RFK Jr. is being used as a tool to facilitate the stealing of the 2024 election
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:33 PM
Mar 2024

Bannon and Crow are working hard to reelect TFG by using RFK Jr as a tool and these efforts should be opposed.

bucolic_frolic

(48,499 posts)
8. Democracy is about electing leaders not wasting your vote on delusional charlatans
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:07 PM
Mar 2024

Contrarians are perverse, it's like the friendly side of paranoia.

nevergiveup

(4,815 posts)
10. In a very recent Emerson poll
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:09 PM
Mar 2024

out of North Carolina Trump leads Biden 47% to 44%. When you add 3rd party candidates Trump defeats Biden 46% to 37% with 5% support going to Kennedy and 1% going to both West and Stein.....with 11% undecided. In this poll Kennedy appears to hurt Biden more than Trump. In the head to head without 3rd party candidates Biden is within the margin of error. I am not against 3rd party candidates but the reality is that Kennedy in a very close election could do great harm to Biden's chances. My x-wife (we still get along) who is in her 70's and a Democrat but doesn't follow politics closely emailed me a few weeks back and told me that she thought she would probably vote for Kennedy. When I explained to her he was an anti-vaxxer she quickly changed her mind.

limbicnuminousity

(1,410 posts)
16. If a demented rapist can run for office
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:26 PM
Mar 2024

it only seems fair to allow a reality-denying moron an equal opportunity.

-on edit: if the country is so far gone as to elect either we have deeper problems than who runs.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
21. Please define "have no problem"
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:33 PM
Mar 2024

If that means "I will not try to improperly block access of any legally-qualified from the ballot", sure.

But have no qualms about, or distaste about, or arguments of any sort against? That's a fundamental misunderstanding of "defends and protects democracy".

 

The Contrarian

(87 posts)
23. I find efforts to actively block RFK Jr. from access to the ballot distaseful
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 12:53 PM
Mar 2024

How can you on the one hand say "we want to protect and defend democracy" while at the same time saying "and by doing that, we're going to take steps to make sure this guy (RFK Jr.) isn't on the ballot". The hypocrisy of those two simultaneous positions is pretty stark.

 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
25. Where did I say anything about "take steps to make sure this guy (RFK Jr.) isn't on the ballot"?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:03 PM
Mar 2024

How does that have anything to do with what I wrote, or even what you wrote in your OP?

Is there some back story here of improper efforts to get RFK Jr. off ballots somewhere that you're incorrectly assuming we're both talking about?

Cha

(306,979 posts)
87. We Want to Protect Our Democracy From TSF & Fucking
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 10:07 PM
Mar 2024

Rat Fucker 3rd party jr wants to Fuck that up.

Politics isn't Bean Bags. We're Fighting Against All Forces of Evil and RFKjr is on one of the Fronts.

JohnSJ

(97,341 posts)
26. Are you kidding me. He isn't running as a Democrat, he is running as a third party candidate
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:09 PM
Mar 2024

just like Cornell West, and only purpose will be to help trump

 

The Contrarian

(87 posts)
42. So then he shouldn't be on the ballot?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:01 PM
Mar 2024

People shouldn't have the option to vote for him? We should be protecting democracy by limiting the publics choices?

JohnSJ

(97,341 posts)
47. I didn't say that. This is a forum to SUPPORT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:24 PM
Mar 2024

RFK jr is a jerk, just like Cornell West. They both know that our democracy is at stake, and what THEY ARE DOING is doing the same bullshit that was done in 2016. They are trying to con gullible people that they are viable, which they are NOT.

"we should be protecting democracy"

They sure aren't, just like what happened in 2016, and what that F***ING ASSHOLE NADER "there is no difference between Democrats and republicans" did in 2000.

In every critical swing state in 2016, Hillary received less than 1% of the vote, while Jill Stein receive 1% of the vote. It didn't take much.

So as far as I am concerned, they are not Democrats, so f**k em.





Cha

(306,979 posts)
83. RF Kjr is a GD 3rd Party Rat Fucker.. like Jill Stein in 2016
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:31 PM
Mar 2024

that GOT PUTIN'S PUPPET IN OUR WH.

This 2024 GE is Life Or Death and that Lying fucking Crazy Lying Weasel wants to Fuck it up.

sop

(12,435 posts)
28. It's amazing how some folks will still argue "Nader didn't cause Gore to lose Florida, the Supreme Court did!"
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:22 PM
Mar 2024

Statements like that reveal a complete lack of understanding of how our current two-party system works. Sometimes I think people who make such statements aren't being honest about their true agenda.

pinkstarburst

(1,598 posts)
31. Recent polling indicates he is taking more votes from us than the right
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:31 PM
Mar 2024

We need to be concerned about this. IMHO this is a product of voters not liking that:

1) the two major candidates on the ballot are a repeat from 2020
2) for dems, they had no say in the candidate
3) frustration, protest over the situation in the middle east
4) concern over the age of Trump/Biden

I am very concerned over polling in the swing states. We will have to hope that when we get to November, people smarten up and realize that a vote for Kennedy is throwing your vote away/voting for Trump and that will be infinitely worse than any problems they have with Biden.

Quakerfriend

(5,699 posts)
36. FWIW, I know a woman who voted for Trump
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:48 PM
Mar 2024

and told me in Jan. she would likely vote for Haley.
This week she is considering Kennedy.

She is from Bucks Co., Pa.

Her primary concern seems to be the Covid vaccine. She was 2nd in command at the very highest level of one of the biggest pharmaceutical Co. in the world. And, …………she has never been vaccinated.

womanofthehills

(9,460 posts)
82. Because- many polls have Biden vs Trump
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:30 PM
Mar 2024

And the same polls have a second poll where Kennedy, Stein & West are included. I think he’s taking from Trump too - as there is usually a 2 to 3 point difference when all are polled - and 2 points could be West & Stein.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

awesomerwb1

(4,664 posts)
34. Nah, hard pass
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:40 PM
Mar 2024

Fox news and the right wing have normalized stuff that was considered loony not too long ago.

Right now it's all about beating trump and the radicals. There will not be a democracy left to "defend and protect" if trump wins.

Big picture guys, big picture. (I won't tell you how I feel about Kennedy because it will lead to a ban).

womanofthehills

(9,460 posts)
44. Kennedy is all over the internet- on many podcasts
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:19 PM
Mar 2024

He is doing hour long podcasts so his web presence is greater than Trumps or Biden’s. I think Biden should have done the Super Bowl for the publicity. We hear clips that are a minute to five minutes from Trump & Biden while Kennedy is speaking for hours many days on the net. He’s making the rounds of podcasts & even comedian podcasts. I wish Biden would get some in depth interviews. I would like to see something like an hour conversation & interview with Biden and Rachel Maddow.

This a a whole new ballgame with social media.

After Kennedy came out as against sending weapons to Ukraine he got a lot of anti war followers but then many left him when they realized he was pro Israel. Lately, he is totally avoiding talking about Israel after Crystal Ball of Breaking Points & comedian Dave Smith went after him when he was on their podcasts.

Many podcasts have larger audiences than cable news. The young rarely watch TV. Fox News has what? Like 2 million viewers while Rogan gets close to 40 million. Many independent journalists are now on podcasts - many getting way more views than Fox.

I wish Biden would step up his web presence. Trump is a horrible threat. We can’t blame everything on one person though.



MorbidButterflyTat

(2,666 posts)
75. Everyone has a podcast
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 08:26 PM
Mar 2024

So Kennedy, Jr. is on Scabby Bannon and Joe Rogan's podcasts all day, saying, what? Anti-vax, anti-democratic, hateful, racist, sexist garbage?

President Biden has a job to do. He doesn't need to waste time on any one of several zillion podcasts, and the Dems' social media presence is darn impressive.

I don't know why any Democrat would bother with the poison spewing from Bannon/Rogan/Kennedy, etc.

"Crystal Ball"?

Bmoboy

(439 posts)
38. He will get some black votes
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:56 PM
Mar 2024

When I did home visits (retired nurse here) I would see pictures of Jesus (sometimes black Jesus), Martin Luther King Jr, and JFK.

RFK Jr is running on nostalgia for a dead uncle and a dead father.

no_hypocrisy

(50,039 posts)
39. I threw away my vote in 1980 on a 3rd party
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 01:56 PM
Mar 2024

candidate, John Anderson. One less vote for Democrat, Jimmy Carter.

And you know who put Anderson up as a spoiler? ROGER STONE.

LeftInTX

(32,180 posts)
94. I knew some people who supported him. Did not know Roger Stone was behind it.
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 09:56 AM
Mar 2024

Seriously, the Dems need to put a bunch of independent right wing candidates to funnel votes from Trump. How about Hulk Hogan?

emulatorloo

(45,728 posts)
54. Yeah agreed, that's kind of the point of Democratic Underground - to elect Democrats
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:50 PM
Mar 2024

Should be obvious why we are here, even to ‘contrarians.’

W_HAMILTON

(8,686 posts)
49. You have no problem with him breaking election laws to do so?
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:36 PM
Mar 2024

Defending and protecting democracy also demands that our laws be abided by. Any court challenges to him being on the ballot stem from him skirting election law to get on the ballot. If a court finds that he broke the law to get on the ballot, then he should be disqualified, yes?

But, yeah, umm, welcome to DU or something!

emulatorloo

(45,728 posts)
52. At DU we support Democratic candidates, not Republican-backed Trojan Horses.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 02:45 PM
Mar 2024

It is fine if RFK hr, and Cornell West are running, but DU isn't here to glorify, champion or otherwise promote anti-Democratic candidates who can notwin and whose purpose is to help Republicans win.

Voltaire2

(15,173 posts)
62. Sure. Too bad our elections allow plurality winners.
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 03:14 PM
Mar 2024

We are stuck with an archaic 18th century system. It’s generally horrible and undemocratic, and ballot access barriers are just one of many problems.

mzmolly

(51,892 posts)
78. Splitting the progressive vote is not defending
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 08:57 PM
Mar 2024

democracy. And I don't think anyone with the actual goal of defending democracy would suggest such a thing.

What about Nikki Haley as a third party candidate? You in?

Cha

(306,979 posts)
80. That is So Much Baloney.. RF Kjr is NOT a Democrat.. he's a GD
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:22 PM
Mar 2024

3rd Paty RF.

Remember jill Fucking Stein's LIES in 2016 in Swing States?!!

She got TSF in our WH.

 

brooklynite

(96,882 posts)
81. Let's be clear; nobody is rigging the ballots to keep him off...
Fri Mar 1, 2024, 09:29 PM
Mar 2024

...but neither does he get to skip the filing requirements that every other candidate has to go through.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,826 posts)
100. What we need to do is fight for ranked voting nationwide
Sat Mar 2, 2024, 01:48 PM
Mar 2024

Obviously, Kennedy isn't going to win enough votes to win in the electoral college. Even in the 2 states that split their ECs, he's unlikely to win a single one. However, third party/independent candidates do have the ability to fuck things up. Remember Ross Perot? If we had ranked voting, a voter could choose their third party candidate on principle, and specify a second choice, which could be the D or the R.

Oopsie Daisy

(5,191 posts)
111. I'd rather "demand" the end of the Electoral College. And I'd also *
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 08:53 AM
Mar 2024

* demand the end of caucuses and "open-primaries". I'd also like to demand that the USSC be increased to 13 justices. And while I'm at it, I'd like to demand that voting-day be a national holiday, and that every state be required to offer mail-in voting. I want to demand that California's "recall" threshold be raised higher than it's ridiculously low 12%. I also demand that any candidate who cannot win the required number of delegates and who has no path to victory must withdraw and endorse the candidate who does have the primary delegate wins. I demand that for every two "self serve" checkouts at the grocery store, there should be at least one live cashier. I demand that loud MUZAK in public places be banned. Furthermore, I demand that loud mufflers and speeders on my street have their vehicles confiscated and licenses revoked. I demand the same punishment for people who unlawfully use handicapped parking spots. I demand the end of scannable "e-coupons" in the grocery store that only work if someone has the store's app on their smartphone and that it's properly associated with their shopper card. I demand the end of "shrinkflation" tactics. I demand no more robocalls. I demand the end of slow-service in drive-thru lanes. I demand that all cigarettes and tobacco products be banned.

angrychair

(10,123 posts)
118. I'm confused
Sun Mar 3, 2024, 11:12 PM
Mar 2024

This question is mute. After Super Tuesday this week it's pretty much over. Kennedy had the ability, like anyone else, to get himself on the ballot in any state he wanted. That he isn't is his fault, not anyone else.

Response to The Contrarian (Original post)

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