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AOC: US aid to UNRWA should resume immediately (Original Post) The Contrarian Jan 2024 OP
Absolutely not!!!!! MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #1
I bet it was more than 12 BannonsLiver Jan 2024 #2
Reporting today is 10% of UNRWA are associated w/ Hamas AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2024 #6
12 that are known so far, a very in depth investigation needs to be done first MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #3
The investigation you call for can take a year or more. patphil Jan 2024 #7
I disagree. MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #8
AOC should stop talking... agingdem Jan 2024 #21
She's on the right side of this womanofthehills Jan 2024 #23
The UN has other agencies that can provide food EX500rider Jan 2024 #26
Based on what evidence? AloeVera Jan 2024 #99
Correct me if i'm wrong KS Toronado Jan 2024 #104
Kind of reckless imo to believe the improbable in a time of crisis. Or create a crisis in the first place. AloeVera Jan 2024 #116
Link AloeVera Jan 2024 #117
The World Food Programme (WFP) EX500rider Jan 2024 #130
Mmm, nice try. AloeVera Jan 2024 #131
Well other organizations are going to have to try aren't they EX500rider Jan 2024 #132
Let's defund Israel too, since it might be committing genocide and war crimes as we speak. AloeVera Jan 2024 #133
That is the agency that feeds the people womanofthehills Jan 2024 #114
"super genocide" sure... EX500rider Jan 2024 #118
Observe The Pitfalls Of Argument By Hyperbole, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2024 #119
I believe the usage is actually an effort to make the term meaningless TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #121
There's Something To That, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2024 #122
Apparently 6,000,000 Jews were "regular genocide" but 15,000 Gazan's are "super genocide" EX500rider Jan 2024 #127
Triage is needed. We better get on the infinto ultra magnus super duper genocides and the doubleplus mega genocides TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #120
What's a super genocide? xmas74 Jan 2024 #126
Apparently 6,000,000 Jews were "regular genocide" but 15,000 Gazan's are "super genocide" EX500rider Jan 2024 #128
Those of us that are supporting a temporary pause in funding until a complete investigation is finished MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #28
UNRWA received hundreds of millions in financial support.. NorseSaxonCelt Jan 2024 #29
A very inconvenient question, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #31
I am sure it does.. NorseSaxonCelt Jan 2024 #33
Hamas beheaded babies, tortured and mutilated children, agingdem Jan 2024 #30
They humanely killed the babies first before beheading them Kennah Jan 2024 #62
FFS you do know that the 40 beheaded babies claim is false, right? AloeVera Jan 2024 #69
You don't know any more than anyone else nocoincidences Jan 2024 #72
So long as they weren't beheaded, then killed is okay, right? Kennah Jan 2024 #96
Is this a fact-based liberal forum or Breitbart? AloeVera Jan 2024 #97
So no children were killed by Hamas? Wait, wait, I know. The IDF killed Israeli children? Kennah Jan 2024 #98
Do you take back your question? AloeVera Jan 2024 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #112
If true, then the aid should be firmly in place with another agency before support for withdrawn. Magoo48 Jan 2024 #38
Hey Fucking HAMS has A $2 BILLION Annual Budget Cha Jan 2024 #80
The perfect time to do that is right before a looming famine. AloeVera Jan 2024 #56
Well, ya know, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #59
Money is always more important than lives. AloeVera Jan 2024 #67
Wowsers!!! MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #68
Pretty rude for a nice Marine. AloeVera Jan 2024 #102
My problem isn't money, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #111
My problem is not with you. I am not accusing you of anything. It's Israel's actions and policies I criticize. AloeVera Jan 2024 #124
What You Call Good Here, Sir, is A Good Part Of the Problem The Magistrate Jan 2024 #125
Apparently they are "refugees" from the British Mandate (or the Ottoman Empire) EX500rider Jan 2024 #129
A few alternatives, I might suggest. AloeVera Jan 2024 #134
Wars Do Generally End With One Side Or The Other Vanquished, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2024 #135
Refugees. n/t AloeVera Jan 2024 #136
One Of My Grand-Kids, In the Midst Of The Terrible Twos, Was Asked If 'No' Was All He Could Say The Magistrate Jan 2024 #137
Adorable and smart. AloeVera Jan 2024 #139
What Impressed Me, Sir, Is That He Recognized A Trick Question With No Good Answer The Magistrate Jan 2024 #140
Not hard for me, but impressive for a two-year old! AloeVera Feb 2024 #141
Every Day's A Schoolday, Sir.... The Magistrate Feb 2024 #142
Lovely teacher! LeftInTX Jan 2024 #71
:( TY for the reminder of the Terrorist Teachers. Cha Jan 2024 #83
Be careful with Xitter. AloeVera Jan 2024 #101
Iran could pick up the slack if they wanted to Jose Garcia Jan 2024 #76
Where was all of this "proper oversight" to date and what is supposed to pass for it now? TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #77
That will take months. Meanwhile Palestinians will die without food, water, and medicine. Lonestarblue Jan 2024 #34
This problem has been known for years by the UN and they refused to address or rectify the problem. MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #36
Easy solution, quickly place the aid with a more reputable organization. Magoo48 Jan 2024 #39
Yes, and I've got to wonder if that's being negotiated even as we speak. MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #41
HAMAS has an Annual Budget of $2 Billion ... Why Don't Cha Jan 2024 #37
Billions that Netanyahu made sure got through to Hamas in order to execute his divide and conquer gambits Celerity Jan 2024 #108
There is intelligence that one in ten workers have significant links to extremist groups, including Hamas LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #94
More reasons to halt funding until the UN finally addresses this and puts in place MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #95
No surprise. Mountainguy Jan 2024 #103
If this was a one time occurrence sarisataka Jan 2024 #4
What is indefensible is that the primary sourfce of humanitarian aid to Palestinians Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #5
Hamas has an annual operating budget of $2 billion. Torchlight Jan 2024 #9
Is this a quote from the TV series Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous? MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #10
Why, yes--yes, it is. Igel Jan 2024 #64
Hell no nycbos Jan 2024 #11
Reporting today was 1200 AZSkiffyGeek Jan 2024 #25
We always have to think of the children. AloeVera Jan 2024 #105
But Here's Your Problem The Magistrate Jan 2024 #107
So if your enemy lacks morals and views children as fodder for the cause... AloeVera Jan 2024 #113
War Is Not A Moral Enterprise The Magistrate Jan 2024 #115
No until the UN cleans up its act. Happy Hoosier Jan 2024 #12
UNRWA is endemically corrupt and an agent of Hamas. They shouldn't get a single penny further of our taxpayer dollars. tritsofme Jan 2024 #13
Then they should stop supporting a terrorist organization. nt LexVegas Jan 2024 #14
Nah, let 'em starve. GhostHunter22 Jan 2024 #15
Once again, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #16
UNRWA should be dissolved and UNHRC should step in instead Arazi Jan 2024 #17
Yes, I thought corruption was very very bad and corrupt organizations must be taken over and transformed. betsuni Jan 2024 #54
The problem is using members of the resident population. Igel Jan 2024 #65
Actually 1,200 of them are accused EX500rider Jan 2024 #18
Or the humanitarian medical supplies Igel Jan 2024 #66
You've described precisely the very tactic Hamas is using on its own people. Torchlight Jan 2024 #19
James G. Lindsay, a former UNRWA general counsel sarisataka Jan 2024 #20
Hamas has billions, let them pay! LeftInTX Jan 2024 #24
Talk to the Butchers of HAMAS.. their Annual Budget is Cha Jan 2024 #40
Guess it's time AOC gets censured or investigated for being a Hamas supporter. Autumn Jan 2024 #22
No, they are embedded with terror orgs. Ace Rothstein Jan 2024 #27
Her points agree with international charities, and the ICJ ruling about preventing genocide should be recalled muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #32
"Saying "another UN organization can take over" ignores the reality of operating in a war zone." EX500rider Jan 2024 #42
Well, if there was a ceasefire by Israel, it would be possible muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #43
A cease fire by Israel? MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #44
Because the poster I was replying to wants the Red Cross etc. to do all the distribution, repair etc. in Gaza muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #47
150 that easily could have been engaged in terrorist operations TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #85
Post removed Post removed Jan 2024 #88
REC Thank You! Cha Jan 2024 #109
"You can't order unarmed workers into a war zone " EX500rider Jan 2024 #90
People are becoming more clear sarisataka Jan 2024 #49
Nope. UNHCR operates in active war zones Arazi Jan 2024 #45
Low level - not 200 killed per day in indiscriminate bombing and shelling muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #48
You selectively edited my response Arazi Jan 2024 #51
The UNHCR does not have a mandate to operate in the Palestinian territories muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #63
They are in Kyiv and other cities in Donetsk right now Arazi Jan 2024 #73
They are not running the cities muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #74
Perhaps Hamas Could Declare One, Unilaterally and Unconditionally, And Abide By It The Magistrate Jan 2024 #75
However, it's not the provision of aid to refugees in Israel that's the topic of this thread muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #78
That Makes No Sense, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2024 #82
Why, yes, I do think the IDF would continue if there was a unilateral ceasefire by Hamas muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #89
Is the Point Relieving Distress In Gaza, Sir? The Magistrate Jan 2024 #91
I'll take my chances that the UNHRC does better than UNRWA Arazi Jan 2024 #86
We should fund terrorists mcar Jan 2024 #35
Here are some of the kidnappers Mosby Jan 2024 #46
So it's not even like they are hiding who they are JI7 Jan 2024 #52
If that's Shani Louk, she was murdered LeftInTX Jan 2024 #70
shes wrong moonshinegnomie Jan 2024 #50
No way! 👎 nt Raine Jan 2024 #53
Post removed Post removed Jan 2024 #55
Welcome to DU. William769 Jan 2024 #60
... Cha Jan 2024 #110
10% of UNRWA employees are Hamas members Mosby Jan 2024 #57
Hard pass. Calista241 Jan 2024 #58
Rec TY Cha Jan 2024 #61
Take the money going to NetanYahoo and give it to the Palestinians. Gaugamela Jan 2024 #79
Why? MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2024 #81
For Hamas and their apologists, that is the only plan. tritsofme Jan 2024 #84
You seemingly missed the entire reason why funding has been suspended TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #87
no thanks Takket Jan 2024 #92
1,200 of Unrwa's roughly 12,000 employees in Gaza have links to Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, LetMyPeopleVote Jan 2024 #93
The list of countries is growing LeftInTX Jan 2024 #106
No way in hell!!! nt Raine Jan 2024 #123
Agree completely with AOC, radius777 Jan 2024 #138

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
1. Absolutely not!!!!!
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:19 AM
Jan 2024

First, ferret out the rot and corruption within UNRWA, which the UN has known about for years but refuses to clean house, then restore the aid.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
3. 12 that are known so far, a very in depth investigation needs to be done first
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:22 AM
Jan 2024

to determine just how many Hamas sympathizers are employed by UNRWA and what role they play in Hamas terrorist activities before any aid is restored.

patphil

(7,392 posts)
7. The investigation you call for can take a year or more.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:37 AM
Jan 2024

I agree that it is needed, but to withhold aid while the investigation progresses puts hundreds of thousands of people at risk.
The investigation should go forward, but aid should be restored now.
Both can be done with proper oversight.
AOC is right.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
8. I disagree.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:41 AM
Jan 2024

This investigation should've been done years ago, the UN has known about this problem for years yet refused to do anything about it and now this is where we're at.

The rot and corruption needs to be weeded out first, then restore the aid with strict oversight to make sure the aid gets to the actual people who need it, which doesn't include Hamas or anyone supporting Hamas.

IMO, AOC is wrong.

agingdem

(8,541 posts)
21. AOC should stop talking...
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:57 PM
Jan 2024

she's on the wrong side of this...and you can bet her anti-Israel/pro-Palestine posturing is not sitting well with many of her constituents...for a woman who is politically savvy, she's slipping

womanofthehills

(9,468 posts)
23. She's on the right side of this
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:09 PM
Jan 2024

I can’t believe you guys want to starve the kids. Let’s see - you kids no longer have legs but we are no longer going to feed you.

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
99. Based on what evidence?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 09:33 PM
Jan 2024

Do you personlly know for a fact there is even ONE agency on the ground with the infrastructure, resources and staff to even come CLOSE? Because I do not know of one.

Are you willing to tolerate people dying because there is no other agency able to distribute the food to so many people? I sincerely hope no one will tolerate that no matter what.

KS Toronado

(20,710 posts)
104. Correct me if i'm wrong
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:28 PM
Jan 2024

You believe UNRWA is the only agency in this world that is capable of feeding all the hungry
people in that war zone? And currently they are the only ones over there providing aid?

And do you believe if full funding was restored, the money Hamas skims off the top will not
be used to kill people?

Remember I'm not putting words in your mouth , that would require statements, I'm only
asking questions.

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
116. Kind of reckless imo to believe the improbable in a time of crisis. Or create a crisis in the first place.
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 08:09 PM
Jan 2024

Do you believe that Hamas is skimming money from the top? Surprising, given that UNRWA's financial statements are audited by an international Board of Auditors annually and have been signed off by the Board. If this is going on, it would be a huge surprise to, for example, the President of the German Court of Auditors, a member of the Board.

I suppose it could all be a huge financial swindle perpetrated by a UN agency, but I'll hold my opinion until any such evidence comes out. I have seen nothing but allegations from the Israeli side to date. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for the efficacy and centrality of UNRWA's services, I believe what the experts and those in the know have to say, not the government of a country waging war on the people that agency serves. I might add one that has a clear and long-established animosity towards the UNRWA and whose interests lie in the agency's discrediting and dismantlement.

Of course there are other aid agencies in the world. I don't know if they are capable of feeding and sheltering millions in a war zone, in the face of starvation and looming famine and disease. I doubt they would be able to step in on the moment's notice required by the humanitarian crisis. To hang your hat on the unknown and highly improbable seems a bit reckless to me in this situation. But then again, the creation of this crisis atop the already existing humanitarian crisis is reckless to.

Regardless, 21 global humanitarian agencies, including some of the biggest like Oxfam and Save the Children, have signed a letter urging donor countries to reinstate funding and reiterating that UNRWA's role cannot be replaced by other agencies in Gaza.

These are the people I believe.

We welcome UNRWA’s swift investigation into the alleged involvement of a small number of UN staff members in the October 7th attacks. We are shocked by the reckless decision to cut a lifeline for an entire population by some of the very countries that had called for aid in Gaza to be stepped up and for humanitarians to be protected while doing their job. This decision comes as the International Court of Justice ordered immediate and effective action to ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza.

152 UNRWA staff have already been killed and 145 UNRWA facilities damaged by bombardment. UNRWA is the largest humanitarian agency in Gaza and their delivery of humanitarian assistance cannot be replaced by other agencies working in Gaza. If the funding suspensions are not reversed we may see a complete collapse of the already restricted humanitarian response in Gaza.

With approximately over one million displaced Palestinians taking shelter in or around 154 UNRWA shelters, the agency and aid organisations have continued to work in near impossible circumstances to provide food, vaccinations, and freshwater. The countries suspending funds risk further depriving Palestinians in the region of essential food, water, medical assistance and supplies, education and protection.

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
130. The World Food Programme (WFP)
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 02:12 PM
Jan 2024
The World Food Programme (WFP) is an international organization within the United Nations that provides food assistance worldwide. It is the world's largest humanitarian organization.
As of 2021, it supported over 128 million people across more than 120 countries and territories.
About two-thirds of WFP life-saving food assistance goes to people facing severe food crises, most of them caused by conflict.
In 2022, funding reached a record USD 14.1 billion. The United States was the largest donor.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Food_Programme

But yes, I know, only the Gazan terrorists embedded in the UNWRA can help!

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
131. Mmm, nice try.
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 02:54 PM
Jan 2024

Frome the WFP's website:

Decisions by various Member States to pause funds from UNRWA will have catastrophic consequences for the people of Gaza. No other entity has the capacity to deliver the scale and breadth of assistance that 2.2 million people in Gaza urgently need.

We appeal for these decisions to be reconsidered.

.....

Withdrawing funds from UNRWA is perilous and would result in the collapse of the humanitarian system in Gaza, with far-reaching humanitarian and human rights consequences in the occupied Palestinian territory and across the region.

The world cannot abandon the people of Gaza.


EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
132. Well other organizations are going to have to try aren't they
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 03:00 PM
Jan 2024

Since no one wants to fund organizations with terrorists as members

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
133. Let's defund Israel too, since it might be committing genocide and war crimes as we speak.
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 03:54 PM
Jan 2024

Of course no one would do that, collective punishment only applies to Palestinians.

And while these other organizations are "trying" the Palestinians will be dying.

womanofthehills

(9,468 posts)
114. That is the agency that feeds the people
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 07:01 PM
Jan 2024

Also, Israel first said it got this information from detainees - tortured detainees???

Genocide is not enough - they are trying for super genocide.

The Israeli’s lie - they lied about the 40 beheaded babies which The Times of Israel and Haaretz said never happened.
Why should anyone believe them?? Trying to get the news away from them being the perpetrators of genocide.

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
118. "super genocide" sure...
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 08:20 PM
Jan 2024

Western countries disagree
In Europe, only the Muslim nation of Turkey has publicly stated its support. No Western country has declared support for South Africa's allegations against Israel. The U.S., a close Israel ally, has rejected them as unfounded, the U.K. has called them unjustified, and Germany said it "explicitly rejects" them.

But if you want to side with Turkey & Iran etc...

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
119. Observe The Pitfalls Of Argument By Hyperbole, Sir
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 08:36 PM
Jan 2024

Describing events in Gaza as 'genocide', a foolish but understandable exaggeration from the spectacle, adopted to drive home how bad the situation is for those caught between the forces, has come to be regarded as mundane fact by its so frequent use, and so to exaggerate for effect now requires some intensifier: it's not 'genocide', why, it's 'super-genocide', which surely is worse than mere 'genocide'. And depend upon it, it will not be long till the process reveals that this is the greatest genocide of all time --- GGOAT!

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
121. I believe the usage is actually an effort to make the term meaningless
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 09:15 PM
Jan 2024

so that the genuine article can occur with minimal blowback.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
122. There's Something To That, Sir
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 09:53 PM
Jan 2024

But at least among the rank and file, I do think it's mostly a result of heartfelt belief one stands by angels opposing darkest evil, and what's the most evil thing there is? Genocide! So of course those evil whomevers are doing it. I recall seeing here someone saying engaging Houthi missile launchers was genocide....


"People who see the world as black and white are helpless confronted by the need to choose between jet and onyx greys."


xmas74

(29,824 posts)
126. What's a super genocide?
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 11:31 PM
Jan 2024

Is it worse than a regular genocide? Is it worse than what happened the Albanians or during the Holocaust or The Killing Fields or Rwanda or many others?
What is a super genocide?

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
28. Those of us that are supporting a temporary pause in funding until a complete investigation is finished
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:18 PM
Jan 2024

want to starve the kids?
What bullshit is this?

NorseSaxonCelt

(75 posts)
29. UNRWA received hundreds of millions in financial support..
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:19 PM
Jan 2024

Even without the USA, UK, Finland, Australia and Canada. Where is that money going?

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
31. A very inconvenient question,
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:22 PM
Jan 2024

I think I can answer that, its going into the pockets of the Hamas terrorist leadership living in the lap of luxury in Qatar, certainly not to the people who truly need it.

agingdem

(8,541 posts)
30. Hamas beheaded babies, tortured and mutilated children,
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:21 PM
Jan 2024

brutally raped mothers, set fire to the elderly and the disabled, turned a music festival into a killing field, kidnapped babies, children, parents, grandparents and then openly rejoiced in their savagery ...and Hamas knew exactly how Israel would retaliate..they knew babies would die/ children would die/lose limbs...they knew buildings would be leveled and towns destroyed...they knew this but they didn't care because "from the river to the sea" is not about land, it's about killing Jews, all Jews..and that's called "genocide"...

AOC is on the wrong side...

Kennah

(14,465 posts)
62. They humanely killed the babies first before beheading them
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:32 PM
Jan 2024

I may have that mixed up, but it's the gist of what I recall from some who appeared to be apologists for Hamas

Response to AloeVera (Reply #97)

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
59. Well, ya know,
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:24 PM
Jan 2024

maybe the UN should've addressed this years ago when they knew what was going on, and maybe the UNRWA should've been more cognizant of who they were hiring.

As it is, there is no reason to send more money to this agency until they get their shit together and deal with this problem, this isn't Israel's fault, nor is it the fault of the US, UK, Germany or the other nations that have put a temporary hold on the charitable aid until the UN fixes it.

It would be throwing good money after bad money.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
68. Wowsers!!!
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 06:00 PM
Jan 2024

Way to twist my words around, I'll kindly ask you to not put your words in my mouth, I've no idea where they've been.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
102. Pretty rude for a nice Marine.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:38 PM
Jan 2024

I find people get rude when their words are distilled down to their actual meaning and they don't like it.

Money was your emphasis, not mine. If that is the only reason you've got to push the defunding of UNRWA, then it follows you are willing to risk famine for that.

OK, I'm sure you didn't really mean to say that. We all know the real reasons have nothing to do with money, don't we?

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
111. My problem isn't money,
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 11:01 AM
Jan 2024

my problem is tax dollars going to an organization like UNRWA that employs terrorists, and apparently there are alot of other nations who agree with that.

O

K, I'm sure you didn't really mean to say that. We all know the real reasons have nothing to do with money, don't we?


And just what would the real reason be pray tell?
Are you accusing me and others who support this temporary suspension of aid until the investigation is complete of what?

Don't be vague, spit it out.

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
124. My problem is not with you. I am not accusing you of anything. It's Israel's actions and policies I criticize.
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 10:31 PM
Jan 2024

Israel has wanted UNRWA gone, no secret. Reasons are political, strategic, expansionist and two-state obliterating.

UNRWA upholds the refugee status of Palestinians, counters the Israeli narrative with eyewitness documentation and reporting, serves as the last bulwark for the people against starvation and famine, is in some ways the "municipal government" of Gaza so holds the fabric of life together there. The timing of the allegations raise suspicion that it was sprung at the opportune time to do the most damage to UNRWA's ability to do those things and at the same time absolve Israel of any responsibility in front of the world and the ICJ.

I've said it from the beginning and even non-believers are having a rethink now that the evidence is staring them in the face: The end goal of the war is the "transfer" of Palestinians, a Jewish Gaza - the destruction of UNRWA is a very important step in getting there. As well, the end of their refugee status is the end of the Palestinian "problem" and the end of the two-state dream.

It's ugly.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
125. What You Call Good Here, Sir, is A Good Part Of the Problem
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 11:08 PM
Jan 2024

It's nonesense for 'refugee' status to be hereditary. There are no Palestinian refugees. There were, many, and now, there are Palestinian exiles.

The semantic subterfuge engaged in is obvious. 'Refugee' is a temporary status: one who is seeking refuge from some immediate danger. The expectation is that once that danger has passed, the refugee will return to the home he or she fled. Exile has a permanent ring to it. Exiles aren't going back, to their own or to their ancestors' land. Calling Palestinians refugees today is claiming their present situation is a temporary one, to be rectified in some near future by returning whence they fled. Though of course even people carried in the arms of a parent in flight from Palestine are pretty thin on the ground nowadays, in Gaza and anywhere else. The honest term, exiles, would contain acceptance their circumstances are what they are. Which has the great advantage of being matched to the facts.

The provision of a special relief agency for Palestinians is part of what has kept that people sequestered, and made easier their refusal to deal squarely with the circumstance they are in. Probably best to shut down the agency, and fold needed relief for Palestinians into the general assistance to distressed person the United Nations provides. And the new staff probably oughtn't be recruited locally, at least for a while....

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
129. Apparently they are "refugees" from the British Mandate (or the Ottoman Empire)
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 01:02 PM
Jan 2024

I don't think there is any going back to there.

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
134. A few alternatives, I might suggest.
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 11:11 PM
Jan 2024
Exile has a permanent ring to it.


I think The Vanquished has a certain ring to it. Or how about USO, short for Unconscionably Screwed-Over? Or the more vulgar UFO, short for...

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
137. One Of My Grand-Kids, In the Midst Of The Terrible Twos, Was Asked If 'No' Was All He Could Say
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 11:26 PM
Jan 2024

Cocked his head a little, looked up, pointed to the ceiling fan's slow revolutions.

I like to think we understood one another....


AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
139. Adorable and smart.
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 11:51 PM
Jan 2024

Heading towards the terrible two's with my own resident grandkid. God help me.

But I got the story. Sometimes no is all that's possible to say, even at our age.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
140. What Impressed Me, Sir, Is That He Recognized A Trick Question With No Good Answer
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 11:56 PM
Jan 2024

As you seem to have done above.



"The U.S. has little left to teach the world except how to squander every first world advantage it ever had and to immolate all reason on the altar of populist ignorance and primitive superstition."



AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
141. Not hard for me, but impressive for a two-year old!
Thu Feb 1, 2024, 12:05 AM
Feb 2024

I like the quote. Populist ignorance. So true!

Or is that a test too?

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
142. Every Day's A Schoolday, Sir....
Thu Feb 1, 2024, 12:12 AM
Feb 2024



"Now, that is cool. A highwayman puts a gun to my head and says 'Hand me your money, or I shall have to shoot you, and then you will be a murderer.'"







AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
101. Be careful with Xitter.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 10:19 PM
Jan 2024

The NYT article does not name the unidentified Israeli woman as being Shani. Nor does the NYT article name the perpetrator, yet the guy on Xitter somehow manages to find a picture of this unknown person atop the truck carrying Shani, perhaps the most well-known of the hostages and to whom we have a very emotional response because of what we saw on that awful video 3+ months ago.

See how propaganda works? Some people fall for it, others spread it knowingly. It's wrong.



From the NYT:
The most detailed accusations in the dossier concerned a school counselor from Khan Younis, in southern Gaza, who is accused of working with his son to abduct a woman from Israel.
.
 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
77. Where was all of this "proper oversight" to date and what is supposed to pass for it now?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:17 PM
Jan 2024

Is this "agency" going to now be trusted to self report and what changes situationally if the rabbit hole leads to a toxic waste dump?

It is still going to be the exact same excuses and outcry to keep funding Hamas so that the Palestinians can get what crumbs fall from their table.

The funders of the terrorists can reallocate their spending to feed their disgarded pawns save for the Death to Israel, Death to America, Death to the West chants and bellicose sabe rattling bullshit.

Lonestarblue

(12,234 posts)
34. That will take months. Meanwhile Palestinians will die without food, water, and medicine.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:55 PM
Jan 2024

Aid should continue while the investigations take place.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
36. This problem has been known for years by the UN and they refused to address or rectify the problem.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 02:17 PM
Jan 2024

A temporary pause in the charitable aid is justified until the investigation is completed and strict guidelines are put in place to make sure this doesn't happen again.
And furthermore, a huge chunk of that aid never makes it to the people that truly need it, instead it ends up in Hamas' dirty pockets for their stated purpose of wiping Israel off the map and eliminating all Jews from the ME and the world.

The blame for this pause is wholly on the UN and Hamas, not Israel, not the US, not Germany, not the UK and all the other nations that have followed the lead of the US.

Cha

(307,161 posts)
37. HAMAS has an Annual Budget of $2 Billion ... Why Don't
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:08 PM
Jan 2024

tehy Feed the Palestinians taht need it because of the WAR that Fucking HAMAS Started.

Celerity

(47,871 posts)
108. Billions that Netanyahu made sure got through to Hamas in order to execute his divide and conquer gambits
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:58 PM
Jan 2024

which allowed him to concentrate on stealing West Bank land via his RW religio-fascist/racist settler base and his concentrated use of the IDF in the West Bank.

That part always seem to get left out.............


How Israel Secretly Propped Up Hamas



‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian state.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials. For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda:

Did Israel want the payments to continue? Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years.

Mr. Netanyahu’s critics disparage them as part of a strategy of “buying quiet,” and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas “ridiculous.” In interviews with more than two dozen current and former Israeli, American and Qatari officials, and officials from other Middle Eastern governments, The New York Times unearthed new details about the origins of the policy, the controversies that erupted inside the Israeli government and the lengths that Mr. Netanyahu went to in order to shield the Qataris from criticism and keep the money flowing.

The payments were part of a string of decisions by Israeli political leaders, military officers and intelligence officials — all based on the fundamentally flawed assessment that Hamas was neither interested in nor capable of a large-scale attack. The Times has previously reported on intelligence failures and other faulty assumptions that preceded the attacks. Even as the Israeli military obtained battle plans for a Hamas invasion and analysts observed significant terrorism exercises just over the border in Gaza, the payments continued. For years, Israeli intelligence officers even escorted a Qatari official into Gaza, where he doled out money from suitcases filled with millions of dollars.

snip

LetMyPeopleVote

(158,121 posts)
94. There is intelligence that one in ten workers have significant links to extremist groups, including Hamas
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:27 PM
Jan 2024

This is very disturbing.



WSJ is reporting that intelligence found on the bodies of dead Hamas fighters and digital surveillance indicates 1 in 10 UNRWA workers have significant links to extremist groups, including Hamas.

That is 1,200 out of 12,000 employees. The WSJ report goes on to say, HALF the employees have close relatives with official ties to militant groups, particularly Hamas.

Two things. First, this is according to Israeli intelligence, so it should be verified by other intelligence agencies. Second, we obviously should not suspend aid while 2.1 million people are displaced from their homes. Sorting out UNRWA is not that important while people are starving and living in tents.

But, assuming this report is generally true, it certainly lends credence to Israeli claims that UNRWA has exacerbated tensions in the region.

https://wsj.com/world/middle-east/at-least-12-u-n-agency-employees-involved-in-oct-7-attacks-intelligence-reports-say-a7de8f36



MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
95. More reasons to halt funding until the UN finally addresses this and puts in place
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:30 PM
Jan 2024

strict guidelines to see that this never happens again and any UNRWA employee found to be in cahoots with any terrorist group is fired and criminally prosecuted.

Mountainguy

(1,371 posts)
103. No surprise.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:02 PM
Jan 2024

Most people in Gaza have significant links to Hamas. Most support Hamas.

It's basically the same as the KKK in the deep south in the 60's. Most people weren't wearing hoods and burning crosses, but most did know who they were and supported them.

sarisataka

(21,517 posts)
4. If this was a one time occurrence
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:25 AM
Jan 2024

I would agree.

However the UNRWA has a long documented history of connections to terrorist groups, antisemitism and promoting violence. The UNRWA is an obstacle to peace and should be dissolved.

Palestinians can be aided by the UNHRC, like all other refugees in the world.

Beastly Boy

(11,659 posts)
5. What is indefensible is that the primary sourfce of humanitarian aid to Palestinians
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:35 AM
Jan 2024

employs a single terrorist enabler, let alone 12 (or more), for any extended period of time, and it doesn't give a shit about it until it loses their funding.

I am afraid AOC got it backwards.

Torchlight

(4,253 posts)
9. Hamas has an annual operating budget of $2 billion.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:51 AM
Jan 2024

The Gaza tunnels alone are estimated to have cost more than $50 million to construct and maintain. Three top leaders of Hamas alone have a staggering fortune of $11 billion, according to a 2023 report by New York Post.

Hamas has the fortune to invest in food security, jobs, and education for Gaza, and I think Hamas should be the first in line in making life easier for the Palestinians currency living in Gaza, but it looks like they've decided their own caviar wishes and champagne dreams are a greater priority.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
10. Is this a quote from the TV series Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:55 AM
Jan 2024
caviar wishes and champagne dreams


If so, it's perfect.

AZSkiffyGeek

(12,685 posts)
25. Reporting today was 1200
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:11 PM
Jan 2024

It's just 12 that were actual kidnappers and murderers. But apparently that's okay, because we need to think of the children!!!!

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
105. We always have to think of the children.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:28 PM
Jan 2024

It's never OK to starve children in service of whatever your cause is. No exceptions for any damn country or any damn reason. That's my silly belief anyway.

It may be 1200, I have no idea. That is based on the nice round 10% "assessment by Israeli intelligence". So it's an estimate, with no proof or verification, by the intelligence services of a country with a lot to gain from the dissolution of UNRWA. Colour me sceptical.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
107. But Here's Your Problem
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:54 PM
Jan 2024

You seem to expect one side alone to 'think of the children'.

The government in Gaza, in fact Hamas, could end infliction of further suffering on children by ceasing hostilities and releasing captives.

The fact is that when Hamas leaders 'think of the children' they see nice, sweet, useful corpses, maimed and mutilated bodies, martyrs bred of a nation proud to be a nation of martyrs, and in Paradise this day. Who could be so heartless as to deny them this, by bending the knee to a JEW...

AloeVera

(2,209 posts)
113. So if your enemy lacks morals and views children as fodder for the cause...
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 06:41 PM
Jan 2024

Are you then absolved from responsibility for your own actions in actually harming those children? And does it lessen, assuage or abolish your guilt as you bomb civilian homes, apartment buildings and schools with those very children being killed and brutally maimed?

The answers to me are no and no.

To be outraged by the moral corruption of Hamas leaders, and their unwillingness to surrender, while ignoring or minimizing the actual killings and collective punishment being committed by your own side, and continued willingness to do so in spite of the cost, is morally unsound and a double-standard. In my humble opinion and with all due respect, sir.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
115. War Is Not A Moral Enterprise
Tue Jan 30, 2024, 07:09 PM
Jan 2024

If your enemy uses children as cover, then they are cover. Right, wrong, guilty, innocent, deserving or otherwise, is quite beside the point. War isn't a game, with rules. War is an exercise in using violence to attain an end which another will not willingly concede. It continues, once begun, till one side or the other lacks the will to continue it. In this particular instance, one side believes it useful in attaining their political end to have a great many non-combatants killed, and arranges the battlefield to make this an inevitable result, while the other side believes its military end, destruction of its enemy's ability to continue fighting, must be achieved whatever the battlefield may be. For one side, the deaths of non-combatants is a means to its end, to the other the deaths of non-combatants is a by-product inevitable in pursuing its end.


"They say war is an art but it's not. It mostly consists in outwitting people, robbing widows and orphans, and inflicting suffering on the helpless for one's own ends, and that's not art: That's business."


tritsofme

(18,929 posts)
13. UNRWA is endemically corrupt and an agent of Hamas. They shouldn't get a single penny further of our taxpayer dollars.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:58 AM
Jan 2024

Let Qatar and Iran step up for their Hamas allies, if they care.

 

GhostHunter22

(95 posts)
15. Nah, let 'em starve.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:21 PM
Jan 2024

I mean afterall, 12 (12 !!!!!) out of 13,000 workers were accused of aiding Hamas.

Those 2+ million “suffering” Palestinians should just get a job and get over it - they’ll be fine…especially the children.

Allowing aid to anyone who can pronounce ‘Hamas’ is antisemitic and I am horrified that anyone would dare to think otherwise.

Arazi

(7,503 posts)
17. UNRWA should be dissolved and UNHRC should step in instead
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:26 PM
Jan 2024

UNRWA is hopelessly corrupt, rife with antisemitism, and totally ineffective as an aid organization.

Its creation as the sole entity assisting only this refugee population is antisemitic when every other refugee group is placed under UNHRC. It stinks and has from day one.

betsuni

(27,448 posts)
54. Yes, I thought corruption was very very bad and corrupt organizations must be taken over and transformed.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:55 PM
Jan 2024

We've been told that for years.

Igel

(36,572 posts)
65. The problem is using members of the resident population.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:50 PM
Jan 2024

Yes, it provides jobs and they know the local environment.

But it also allows for easy infiltration and appropriation of assets and means. Even with careful vetting, we limit the access that local employees at embassies and consulates have--and those tend to be jobs where we suspect applicants. When you're rooting for the local population, it makes vetting them even harder. I mean, look at UPenn, where the enforcement staff in charge of stopping and corralling hate speech and protecting students were on the side of the protesters accused of anti-semitism and intimidation. "Nothing to see here, move along."

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
18. Actually 1,200 of them are accused
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:39 PM
Jan 2024
Another report published by the Wall Street Journal, also citing the Israeli intelligence dossier, alleges that about 1,200 of UNRWA's 12,000 employees in Gaza have links to Hamas or Islamic Jihad.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68127544

Then there is the whole stories about the UNRWA's local telegram posts celebrating the 10/7 attack that came out last month
And the story about the Israeli hostage being held at a UNRWA's teachers house

Igel

(36,572 posts)
66. Or the humanitarian medical supplies
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:52 PM
Jan 2024

that were stolen--then said to have been transferred--how did they put it--transferred to the appropriate authorities?

If Hamas members or fellow-travelers did the transferring, then vouched for the transferring, who could say they *weren't* "stolen" by Hamas (esp. if UNRWA staffer's enabled and facilitated the transfer)?

Torchlight

(4,253 posts)
19. You've described precisely the very tactic Hamas is using on its own people.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:50 PM
Jan 2024

Current senior leadership of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, Moussa Abu Marzuk and Khaleed Mashal have been maintaining their luxury lifestyle in Qatar, while the average monthly income for a middle-class family living in Gaza is around $250. Hamas possesses quite the disparity between its noble and righteous assertions of freedom for those in Gaza and the lack of actual aid it dispenses to those in need.

Hamas is the perfect example of 'physician, heal thyself.'

sarisataka

(21,517 posts)
20. James G. Lindsay, a former UNRWA general counsel
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 12:51 PM
Jan 2024
UNRWA has taken very few steps to detect and eliminate terrorists from the ranks of its staff or its beneficiaries, and no steps at all to prevent members of organizations such as Hamas from joining its staff. UNRWA has no preemployment security checks and does not monitor off-time behavior to ensure compliance with the organization's anti-terror rules. No justification exists for millions of dollars in humanitarian aid going to those who can afford to pay for UNRWA services.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNRWA

This quote is from 2009, showing how long the UNRWA has been associated with Hamas

Cha

(307,161 posts)
40. Talk to the Butchers of HAMAS.. their Annual Budget is
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:15 PM
Jan 2024

$2 Billion.. or is that too much of an Ask for them to feed the Palestinians who are "starving" because of the War the Butchers started?

Fucking Terrorists.

Autumn

(47,251 posts)
22. Guess it's time AOC gets censured or investigated for being a Hamas supporter.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:05 PM
Jan 2024
She's right. That millions should suffer for what 12 people did is fucking disgusting

Ace Rothstein

(3,313 posts)
27. No, they are embedded with terror orgs.
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:12 PM
Jan 2024

Last edited Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:41 PM - Edit history (1)

The UNRWA schools are also breeding grounds of future terrorists.

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
32. Her points agree with international charities, and the ICJ ruling about preventing genocide should be recalled
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 01:25 PM
Jan 2024

by the governments now trying to hamstring relief, or those cheering them on. Innocent lives are at stake.

As aid organisations, we are deeply concerned and outraged that some of the largest donors have united to suspend funding for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), the main aid provider for millions of Palestinians in Gaza and the region. This comes amid a rapidly worsening humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.

The suspension of funding by donor states will impact life-saving assistance for over two million civilians, over half of whom are children, who rely on UNRWA aid in Gaza. The population faces starvation, looming famine and an outbreak of disease under Israel’s continued indiscriminate bombardment and deliberate deprivation of aid in Gaza.

We welcome UNRWA’s swift investigation into the alleged involvement of a small number of UN staff members in the October 7th attacks. We are shocked by the reckless decision to cut a lifeline for an entire population by some of the very countries that had called for aid in Gaza to be stepped up and for humanitarians to be protected while doing their job. This decision comes as the International Court of Justice ordered immediate and effective action to ensure the provision of humanitarian assistance to civilians in Gaza.

152 UNRWA staff have already been killed and 145 UNRWA facilities damaged by bombardment. UNRWA is the largest humanitarian agency in Gaza and their delivery of humanitarian assistance cannot be replaced by other agencies working in Gaza. If the funding suspensions are not reversed we may see a complete collapse of the already restricted humanitarian response in Gaza.

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/unrwa-funding-cuts-threaten-palestinian-lives-

Saying "another UN organization can take over" ignores the reality of operating in a war zone. This is not like telling people to change their bank.

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
42. "Saying "another UN organization can take over" ignores the reality of operating in a war zone."
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 03:45 PM
Jan 2024

So UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency and the Red Cross/Crescent are incapable of loading trucks with food and distributing them?

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
43. Well, if there was a ceasefire by Israel, it would be possible
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:03 PM
Jan 2024

It would just be like a massive aid operation to an earthquake zone or similar (buildings mostly destroyed, everyone displaced). But without that? No, they couldn't. The people of Gaza dream of being in the situation of having suffered a massive earthquake with outside help able to get in to them without being killed.

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
44. A cease fire by Israel?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:07 PM
Jan 2024

What happened the last time Israel agreed to a cease fire?
Oh yeah, Hamas launched a terrorist attack inside Israel that killed 3 Israeli's and then proceeded to launch a rocket attack on Israel.

Why is it that only Israel has to abide by a cease fire when Hamas clearly doesn't abide by one?

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
47. Because the poster I was replying to wants the Red Cross etc. to do all the distribution, repair etc. in Gaza
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:14 PM
Jan 2024

and it's Israel that is bombarding Gaza. You can't order unarmed workers into a war zone where 200 people are being killed a day without the government doing the killing stopping. UNRWA is the only organization that stands a chance of doing that, because it has already been doing most of it. That's why 150 of UNRWA workers have already been killed. They're Palestinians, and are stuck there.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
85. 150 that easily could have been engaged in terrorist operations
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:32 PM
Jan 2024

just like this lot.

Hamas has plenty of loot, they can feed their own instead of stealing from them.

The lion's share of the money and supplies are going to support and fund Hamas anyway.

Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #85)

EX500rider

(11,749 posts)
90. "You can't order unarmed workers into a war zone "
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:54 PM
Jan 2024

Are you saying the UNRWA members are armed?

Other UN orgs can certainly deliver food & shelter, they can coordinate with the IDF.

sarisataka

(21,517 posts)
49. People are becoming more clear
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:20 PM
Jan 2024

That "Ceasefire Now" only applies to one party. The other is free to act as they please. It's just "resistance"

Arazi

(7,503 posts)
45. Nope. UNHCR operates in active war zones
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:12 PM
Jan 2024

They’re presently in Yemen and Sudan

They’ve also recently been in Afghanistan, Congo, Syria, South Sudan, Chad, Ethiopia etc. They're still in some of those areas even with low level conflicts raging for years

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
48. Low level - not 200 killed per day in indiscriminate bombing and shelling
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:20 PM
Jan 2024

I'll repeat what the aid organizations said, and give the full list, because these people know what they're talking about:

152 UNRWA staff have already been killed and 145 UNRWA facilities damaged by bombardment. UNRWA is the largest humanitarian agency in Gaza and their delivery of humanitarian assistance cannot be replaced by other agencies working in Gaza. If the funding suspensions are not reversed we may see a complete collapse of the already restricted humanitarian response in Gaza.

Signed

Save the Children

War Child Alliance

ActionAid

Norwegian Refugee Council

Diakonia

Oxfam

Première Urgence Internationale

Médecins du Monde France, Spain, Switzerland, Canada, Germany
Danish Refugee Council

Johanniter International Assistance

The Association of International Development Agencies - Aida

Humanity & Inclusion/ Handicap International (HI)

INTERSOS

CCFD-Terre Solidaire

International Council for Voluntary Agencies

Norwegian People's Aid

Plateforme des ONG françaises pour la Palestine

Norwegian Church Aid

DanChurchAid

American Friends Service Committee

Caritas Internationalis

Arazi

(7,503 posts)
51. You selectively edited my response
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:32 PM
Jan 2024

They operate in active war zones as well as low level conflicts. They were in Afghanistan and Iraq during active war. They’re in Yemen and Sudan right now.

The fact is UNRWA is complicit in stoking the I/P war. They have employees who are active participants in terrorism. There’s just no way that any governments should be giving them aid to perpetuate their abuses.

Even further, I’m not sure why there was ever a separate agency just for the Palestinians. There’s been no precedent for it before or after. It’s rife with corruption and utterly untrustworthy. The majority of the funds are going straight to the Hamas leadership in Qatar and Turkey instead of actually providing aid for the residents of Gaza

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
63. The UNHCR does not have a mandate to operate in the Palestinian territories
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 05:42 PM
Jan 2024

UNRWA was created first (with Israel and Arab states voting for it), in 1949; UNHCR in 1950, originally for refugees in Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNRWA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_High_Commissioner_for_Refugees

But one must hope that a ceasefire becomes the first step towards embarking again – finally! – on the path towards a solution. Over many years, including those in which I headed UNRWA, I have observed how solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was always described as ‘elusive’: but it has not been elusive; it has been repeatedly and deliberately neglected, cast aside as something no longer necessary, and almost ridiculed. Dealing with the chronic resurgence of violence, followed by temporary ceasefires, was deemed more expedient than focusing on a real peace; one able to provide Israelis and Palestinians with the rights, recognition, security, and statehood that they deserve. I hope that now, amidst the horrors of war, we can at least see how grave a miscalculation that has been. There will be no peace in the region, and in the world, without a just solution to the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, including the end of the Israeli occupation. I hope that the remarks by the Secretary-General here in the Council last week will help everybody reflect on the need to turn this somber page, difficult as it may be: because it is vital.

And the opposite is deeply troubling. While UNHCR does not have a mandate to operate in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (and let me pay tribute here especially to UNRWA, my former organization, and other humanitarian staff for their heroic work, and express my deepest condolences for the now 67 colleagues who have been killed), it is clear that this latest and deadliest round of violent conflict risks infecting the wider region and beyond with catastrophic consequences – including in places where UNHCR is very much present and working to help protect and assist the displaced and solve their plight.

https://www.unhcr.org/news/speeches-and-statements/high-commissioner-s-statement-united-nations-security-council

The point is that UNHCR don't operate in cities under active attack (reminder: Gaza is about the size and population of Queens). They don't get told "you are the people primarily responsible for feeding and sheltering 2 million people in a city under active attack, who cannot move from that city, when you don't operate there already".

And that's why AOC, and the NGOs, are right.

Arazi

(7,503 posts)
73. They are in Kyiv and other cities in Donetsk right now
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 06:59 PM
Jan 2024

Ukrainian cities are under active daily attack, including multiple and sustained unrelenting rocket fire virtually every night.

Look, I too want humanitarian aid to continue but UNRWA isn’t going to continue there imo. They’re too badly corrupted and complicit. No nation will resume funding them after this report, nor should they. UNHCR is the logical choice for a replacement and we should focus our demands on an immediate workable replacement. They have the skills and logistics staffing to ramp up the fastest.

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
74. They are not running the cities
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:07 PM
Jan 2024

That's the Ukrainian government. Plus the civilian daily toll in Ukrainian cities is under a tenth of Gaza. It took maybe 5 weeks for 10,000 civilian deaths in Gaza; it took about 18 months in Ukraine.

The only possible way for UNHCR to go in an take over the support of over a million people is for a ceasefire.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
75. Perhaps Hamas Could Declare One, Unilaterally and Unconditionally, And Abide By It
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:09 PM
Jan 2024

To bring what succor they could to the people of Gaza....

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
78. However, it's not the provision of aid to refugees in Israel that's the topic of this thread
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:20 PM
Jan 2024

It's the provision to Gaza (and, for that matter, to the West Bank, where, again, the killing is by the IDF, plus settlers. But it probably is realistic for other aid groups to take over in the West Bank, though they'd surely love it if the IDF and settlers stopped the murder). So a ceasefire by the Israelis is the important part. A unilateral ceasefire by Hamas would not help.

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
82. That Makes No Sense, Sir
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:26 PM
Jan 2024

Do you seriously suggest that Hamas downing arms and standing by doing so for some weeks would not improved the supply situation in Gaza?

Do you suppose it would be politically feasible, not just internationally but domestically, for Israel to continue bombardment in face of that?

muriel_volestrangler

(103,007 posts)
89. Why, yes, I do think the IDF would continue if there was a unilateral ceasefire by Hamas
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:52 PM
Jan 2024

For instance, they continue to kill in the West Bank. I look at DU and think "yes, if there are this many normally moderate Americans who don't care about Palestinian deaths, then it's feasible in Israel".

The Magistrate

(96,043 posts)
91. Is the Point Relieving Distress In Gaza, Sir?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:59 PM
Jan 2024

If it is, then what have events in the West Bank to do with it?

Will continued vigilantism by settlers and suppression of protest by soldiers there prevent supplying Gaza in the event of a ceasefire declared there by Hamas?

Arazi

(7,503 posts)
86. I'll take my chances that the UNHRC does better than UNRWA
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:33 PM
Jan 2024

I don’t understand your comment about “running the cities” but regardless, it’s clear UNHRC operates in war zone cities under regular assault. You’re moving the goalposts with every post - now you’re saying only an agency that has operated under Gaza-level war conditions can manage humanitarian aid?

That’s just utterly untrue. In fact, I’d stipulate that UNRWA has exhibited massive failures managing Gaza’s humanitarian aid over and over for decades. The documented evidence of their complicity with terrorists is undeniable. Giving a different agency that task seems prudent and necessary at this point, especially an agency that’s been successfully tasked with this sort of work for hundreds of other conflicts.

Finally your comment about a ceasefire is great. Israel has proposed (another) one. Hamas has rejected it. I wouldn’t hold my breath on those negotiations tbh

JI7

(91,311 posts)
52. So it's not even like they are hiding who they are
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:43 PM
Jan 2024

I would say most UNRWA agree with the attacks onIsrael.

LeftInTX

(32,268 posts)
70. If that's Shani Louk, she was murdered
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 06:14 PM
Jan 2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Shani_Louk



Hours later that day, a video emerged showing Louk's body,[28][29][c][d] partially clothed, with a significant head injury and blood-matted hair, being paraded in the streets of Gaza City by Hamas militants in the back of a pickup truck; they were exclaiming "Allahu Akbar", and were joined in the cheers by the people in the crowd surrounding the vehicle, some of whom spat on the body.[33][22][34][35] The video went viral,[36][37][3] becoming one of the first viral videos of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war.[36] It was released in a wave of videos of Hamas members parading hostages and bodies.[38][39][40] Photographs were also taken and circulated on the internet,[29] including a photograph of the pickup returning to Gaza Strip, taken by an Associated Press photojournalist.[41]

From early on, there were media reports that Louk had been killed, describing the video as depicting her lifeless body.[51][52] According to The Times of Israel, "it seemed likely at the time that Louk was no longer alive."

On 30 October 2023, the German and Israeli governments confirmed Louk's death. Forensic examiners found the petrous part of the temporal bone from her skull on a road leading out of the festival grounds,[56][59] with her DNA

________________________________

Savages!!!! No wonder everyone is pulling funding!!

moonshinegnomie

(3,075 posts)
50. shes wrong
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 04:27 PM
Jan 2024

the agency should be dissolved. let the rich arab states provide humanitarian aid.
the agency as it exists now is a terrorist haven

Intelligence estimates shared with the U.S. conclude that around 1,200 of Unrwa’s roughly 12,000 employees in Gaza have links to Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and about half have close relatives who belong to the Islamist militant groups. Both groups have been designated as terrorist organizations by the U.S. and others. Hamas has run Gaza since a 2007 coup.


https://archive.is/s6jmz

Response to The Contrarian (Original post)

MarineCombatEngineer

(14,817 posts)
81. Why?
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:25 PM
Jan 2024

So Hamas can steal some more to put to their stated goal of the destruction of Israel and the elimination of all Jews in the ME and world?
Yeah, there's a great plan.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
87. You seemingly missed the entire reason why funding has been suspended
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 07:39 PM
Jan 2024

It wasn't because of some shortfall where an accounting choice was made but rather because the agency is corrupted/in partnership with Hamas.

If Israel got $0 aid it would not free up a cent to fund Hamas.

Takket

(22,862 posts)
92. no thanks
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 08:05 PM
Jan 2024

As a taxpayer I'm not cool with the idea of my money potentially being funneled to terrorists.

There are plenty of aid organizations out there. Invest in someone else to help.

LeftInTX

(32,268 posts)
106. The list of countries is growing
Mon Jan 29, 2024, 11:32 PM
Jan 2024
Thirteen other countries have issued similar declarations: Australia, Canada, Estonia, France, Finland, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States.


BBM...New countries added to the list.

I think AOC may have gotten this wrong, unless there is a strange bandwagon going on. However, most of these countries voted for the ceasefire.


https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-784213

radius777

(3,847 posts)
138. Agree completely with AOC,
Wed Jan 31, 2024, 11:27 PM
Jan 2024

these people are suffering and they need any/all aid they can get - regardless of any issues with the group delivering the aid. A starving baby does not care about the politics of adults.

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