Benjamin Netanyahu Says He Opposes Palestinian State In Any Postwar Scenario

[Nanjeanne]

From AP via HuffPost https://www.huffpost.com/entry/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-palestinian-state_n_65a95efee4b076abd7aac36b]

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he has informed the United States that he opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of any postwar scenario.

The announcement on Thursday exposed the deep divisions that have emerged between the close allies three months into Israel’s war against Gaza’s Hamas rulers.

The U.S. has called on Israel to scale back its offensive and said that the establishment of a Palestinian state should be part of the “day after.”

In a nationally broadcast news conference, Netanyahu vowed to press ahead with the offensive until Israel realizes a “decisive victory over Hamas.” He also rejected the idea of Palestinian statehood. He said he had relayed his positions to the Americans.

“In any future arrangement … Israel needs security control all territory west of the Jordan,” Netanyahu told a nationally broadcast news conference. “This collides with the idea of sovereignty. What can you do?”

“The prime minister needs to be capable of saying no to our friends,” he added.

This was an update to an earlier AP story about

An Israeli airstrike on a home killed 16 people, half of them children, in the southern Gaza town of Rafah, medics said early Thursday. The military continued to strike targets in areas of the besieged territory where it has told civilians to seek refuge.

Quelle surprise!

[ExciteBike66]

1. Bibi says "from the river to the sea?"

[Nanjeanne]

2. It's part of the Likud Party platform. There are just some people who prefer not to know it.

[obamanut2012]

10. I was told it is different when Bibi says it

I do not think it is different when Bibi says it.

[uponit7771]

57. Bibi guy sounds like an asshole supreme

[JohnSJ]

3. and Hamas believes Israel should be destroyed. That is the full context, and

why the only solution is new leadership on both sides. Easier said than done.

[Lonestarblue]

5. Hamas is only 30,000 or fewer fighters, not the 4 million or so Palestinians.

Calling every Palestinian a Hamas terrorist is just a red herring to draw attention away from the fact that Israel is murdering thousands of Palestinians, the majority of them women and children who certainly are not Hamas fighters.

[maxsolomon]

6. John SJ didn't call every Palestinian a Hamas Terrorist.

Are you responding to someone else?

[JohnSJ]

35. No I didn't, and thank-you. And whether people want to admit it or not, Hamas controls that area

because they have the weapons.

[DemocraticPatriot]

48. Some people posting on this site habitually seem to do so....

Seems they can't tell the difference between a four-year-old Palestinian civilian,
and a Hamas terrorist.... and they don't seem to care, either...

Glad John SJ didn't say that...

[FHRRK]

50. they know the difference

Their RW soul is being exposed though.

[DemocraticPatriot]

52. I don't believe it has much to do with 'ideology'---

more like 'tribalism'


Israel has a 'Samson complex', and too many others seemed to have signed onto that mindset...

YES, the Jewish people went through a holocaust... and many survivors helped establish the state of Israel,
to try to establish a 'safe place' for their people...


All the bad things they have experienced
does not in any way justify what they are doing now---
making 'bad things' happen to civilians elsewhere---

THEY OUGHT TO KNOW BETTER!

[FHRRK]

53. maybe a bit of each

But I will give you tribalism as a strong factor.

It is very, very sad to see.

[LeftInTX]

60. Modern day Israel is very different. The majority of Israelis today have been expelled from Arab or Muslim countries

Likud are primarily Middle Eastern Jews. "Bibi" is short for habibi, which Netanyahu got from all his Arab speaking supporters. That guy who is always saying all that hateful stuff (Gvir) is an Iraqi Jew. The guy who shot Rabin is a Yemenite Jew.

Ashkenazi Jews are more liberal, but they're old, whereas the Middle Eastern Jews have large families and are not from democracies.

[Celerity]

21. there are around 14.3 million Palestinians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians

[LiberalFighter]

4. I oppose a Netanyahu state in Israel.

If the people of Israel doesn't change their national policy they will continue to be attacked. They need to throw the Likud and other similar groups out.

[Mountainguy]

55. And the attacks that happened before he was PM?

Ehud Barak, about as liberal of an Israeli PM as could be, was in office when the 2nd Intifada was started.

[PufPuf23]

7. Netanyahu tells US he opposes creation of Palestinian state after Gaza war - The Guardian

Netanyahu tells US he opposes creation of Palestinian state after Gaza war
PM rebuts White House by saying all territory west of Jordan River would be under Israeli security control

Peter Beaumont; Thu 18 Jan 2024 15.40 EST

Israel’s prime minister has told the Biden White House that he rejects any moves to establish a Palestinian state when Israel ends its offensive against Gaza, and that all territory west of the Jordan River would be under Israeli security control.

Benjamin Netanyahu has sought to obstruct the establishment of a Palestinian state throughout his political career, despite occasional lukewarm endorsements of the idea.

His public statement on Thursday, however, represented his sharpest rebuttal of US foreign policy at a time when the Biden administration has expended huge domestic political capital to support Israel militarily and in international forums.

The White House responded by saying the US would continue working towards a two-state solution and that there could be no Israeli reoccupation of Gaza when the war concluded.

“There will a post-conflict Gaza, no reoccupation of Gaza,” the White House national security adviser, John Kirby, told reporters onboard Air Force One after Netanyahu’s speech.

more at: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/netanyahu-tells-us-opposes-palestinian-state-after-gaza-war

[Uncle Joe]

8. I believe there is some big money behind this.

September 8, 2023

Jared Kushner's Post-White House $2 Billion Saudi Investment Sparked Ethical Debate and Saudi Skepticism Due to 'Inexperience' and 'Public Relations Risks'

(snip)

A panel that screens investments for the Saudi sovereign wealth fund expressed concerns about Kushner’s new private equity firm, Affinity Partners. According to The New York Times, they cited issues like the firm’s inexperience, the possibility of the kingdom bearing most of the investment risk, unsatisfactory due diligence on the firm’s operations, an excessive asset management fee, and public relations risks due to Kushner’s previous role as a senior adviser to President Trump.

However, the full board of the $620 billion Public Investment Fund, led by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, overruled the panel. This deal raised ethical concerns, as it could be seen as kickback for Kushner’s actions in the White House or an attempt to gain favor as Trump seeks another presidential term in 2024.

Kushner’s close ties to the Saudi crown prince, including his defense of him after the Khashoggi murder, have also drawn attention. Interestingly, the Saudi fund invested twice as much with Kushner compared to former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, even though Mnuchin had a successful investment record before entering government.

(snip)

This week it was announced that Affinity Partners is making its first investment in Israel by acquiring a $150 million minority stake in an Israeli car company. In this transaction, Affinity will purchase a 15% stake in the car and credit division of S Shlomo Holdings Ltd, a closely held Israeli company. The investment was disclosed in a filing on September 6th.

The investment raises questions about the strategic direction of Affinity Partners and its growing international portfolio.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jared-kushners-post-white-house-211939446.html



(snip)

Shlomo Real Estate

Shlomo Nadlan, owns 500,000 sqm. of properties in Israel and Western Europe, it was established in 2007 and specializes in real estate activities. Shlomo Real Estate core business is improving assets, including hotels and commercial properties.[18] The company acquire properties and improve them through renovation, locating suitable tenants, etc. Some of the properties are sold and some are used for rental purposes. The value of the company's asset portfolio amounts at ILS 2 billion and shareholders' equity is estimated at NIS 600 million.

(snip)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlomo_Group



One interesting thing I learned recently, Kushner and Netanyahu were close.

When Netanyahu slept at the Kushners — media tales of Trump’s Jewish confidants

https://www.jpost.com/american-politics/when-netanyahu-slept-at-the-kushners-and-other-media-tales-of-trumps-jewish-confidantes-481486



That was a cosmic investment by Kushner just about exactly one month before October 7th, when Israel would have good reason to wage major war with the resultant destruction of Gaza.

I would be willing to bet a dollar against a doughnut that, Affinity Partners or Shlomo Real Estate will become primary contractors in rehabbing a destroyed Gaza.

Bonesaw and Kushner should be happy with their profits not to mention members of Netanyahu's government if they own much of that stock and the possibility the U.S. would be drawn into conflict against one of Bonesaw's major enemies in Yemen.

Another thing I noticed, Netanyahu was pretty adamant that the war would go on until at least 2025, he knows that eternal war isn't helping President Biden but it is helping Kushner, *rump and Bonesaw.

So I kind of have the feeling that Kushner was and possibly is running shadow diplomacy after he left the White House and received 2 billion dollars to play with against the advice of the investment managers.

He certainly traveled to enough countries with connections to Hamas and *rump's state department largely didn't know what he was doing.

Thanks for the thread Nanjeane.

[marble falls]

34. This deserves a thread of its own. Very nice post.

[PufPuf23]

9. Netanyahu vows no Palestinian state, attacks Israeli media, denies blindsiding Gallant - Times of Israel

Netanyahu vows no Palestinian state, attacks Israeli media, denies blindsiding Gallant
In rebuke of the US, PM declares Israel must maintain security control over West Bank and Gaza; says Israel will know soon if medicines sent into Gaza have reached hostages

By LAZAR BERMAN; Today, 11:16 pm

During a combative press conference Thursday evening, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected the prospect of Palestinian statehood after the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza, and vowed to resist the United States on the matter.

He also denied blindsiding his defense minister over a deal to send medicines into Gaza for Israeli hostages, accused Israeli media of spreading pessimism about the progress of the war, and said Hamas and Iran were hoping to see his government fall and elections held mid-war.

On the issue of Palestinian sovereignty, Netanyahu was speaking after a report on Wednesday that the Biden administration is looking past the premier to advance a two-state solution, and hours after US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Israel cannot achieve “genuine security” without a pathway to a Palestinian state.

more at: https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-vows-no-palestinian-state-attacks-israeli-media-denies-blindsiding-gallant/

[DemocraticPatriot]

49. Netanyahoo even has to attack the Israeli media, because they are

saying he has gone too far in Gaza ????


Pretty damned TRUMPY...


Resign now, Net. Your country and the world deserve better.

[PufPuf23]

54. Problem is that Netanyahu, like Trump, has far too many supporters

that won't support a 2-state solution much less a halt of the carnage.

Israel is busy changing minds in not a good way for Israel as a nation.

[demmiblue]

11. NOW - Netanyahu: "In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea."

Link to tweet

[DBoon]

12. So what is Bibi planning to do with the Palestinians already living in Gaza and the West Bank?

March them through the desert while they drop dead, like this historical event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide

Turkey still denies this was genocide.

[babylonsister]

15. 'Send them to the Congo' has been floated...

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israel-in-secret-talks-to-resettle-palestinians-in-congo-report-says
Israel in Secret Talks to ‘Resettle’ Palestinians in Congo, Report Says

[DemocraticPatriot]

51. I suppose they would be better off in Congo, if the Israeli government

will pay their way there, and not assassinate them on their way there....

Doesn't look like 80% of them have any home in Gaza anymore.....


And YES--- forced deportation seems pretty close to one of the definitions of 'genocide'---

I only hope for peace and safety for all of these people, the Palestinians
and the people of Israel, who were foolish to elect a despotic government

[Baitball Blogger]

13. And the rest of the world opposes Netanyahu in any postwar scenario.

[brush]

14. Apparently Netanyahu just wants the Palestinians gone...

and ironically, "from the river to the sea."

Another Nakba I guess...but to where?

Israel needs to get rid of this warmonger who was asleep at the wheel on Oct. 7.

US Sec'y of State Blinken is already looking past him. He said in a recent statement that Netanyahu won't be around forever.

[MOMFUDSKI]

27. Not asleep at the wheel.

LIHOP

[brush]

30. Very possible. No way to explain the hours it took the IDF to respond on Oct. 7

If that's the case Netanyahu sure got the war he wanted.

[TheRealNorth]

41. The IDF was busy protecting "settlers" in the West Bank.....

that were stealing more land there.

[marble falls]

32. But it seems like he has been around forever. About thirty years.

[brush]

36. I know. Like a bad penny he keeps turning up in power.

When is Israel going to finally kick him to the curb.

[Chi67]

37. Basically

Then I think it is appropriate to call what is happening is an ethnic purge of Gaza. What's another word for that?

[sanatanadharma]

16. "The prime minister needs to be capable of saying no to our friends"

Saying no to friend USA suggests that, in the prime ministers words, the USA resident needs to be capable of saying no to friend Israel.

[Mosby]

17. Why does anyone think terrorism should be rewarded?

Look, let's not make this about Bibi for a second. He's a lame duck and will be gone soon. But the heinous acts perpetrated by Hamas and some Gazans can't be rewarded. What's necessary are concrete steps by the Palestinians to reject terrorism and remove these entrenched groups from Palestinian society. Then elections need to take place. A plan needs to be presented that deals with the refugees and the dissolution of UNWRA. The Palestinians need to accept Israeli sovereignty of J'lem.

Then, maybe the two sides can sit down and discuss borders, water, access and all the other final status issues. But the onus has to be on the Palestinians to demonstrate in words and deeds their interest in living side by side with Israel.

[TheRealNorth]

45. We have been rewarding the ILLEGAL occupation of the West Bank since 1967

Time for Israel to leave the West Bank.

[Mosby]

46. It's not an illegal occupation

And if Israel left it would turn into another Gaza, except with more terrorist groups.

Who told you the occupation was illegal? Ever hear of the Oslo Accords? The documents in Oslo II spell out the administrative and security arrangements in the West Bank. The Palestinians right now need to have elections, and start planning for the time when they fully integrate their refugees, which they have refused to do for 75 years.

If they want to be a nation, they need to start doing the hard work to become one. There are no shortcuts or cheat codes.

[LudwigPastorius]

61. "...the heinous acts perpetrated by Hamas and some Gazans can't be rewarded."

At this point, I think your average Palestinian in Gaza would settle for not having the shit bombed out of their children.

[Celerity]

64. Israel was rewarded for terrorism

Just one example:

The Irgun terrorist organisation, who eventually morphed into today's RW, racist, fascist Likud Party of Netanyahu and his ilk.

Menachem Begin, the leader of the Irgun, was the founder of Likud and the sixth Prime Minister of Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

The Irgun (Hebrew: ארגון; full title: Hebrew: הארגון הצבאי הלאומי בארץ ישראל Hā-ʾIrgun Ha-Tzvaʾī Ha-Leūmī b-Ērētz Yiśrāʾel, lit. "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel" ), or Etzel (Hebrew: אצ"ל ) (sometimes abbreviated IZL), was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine and then Israel between 1931 and 1948. It was an offshoot of the older and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah (Hebrew: Hebrew: הגנה, Defence).

The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts. The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. According to Howard Sachar, "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".

Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre that killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.


King David Hotel bombing. 91 people of various nationalities were killed, including Arabs, Britons and Jews, and 46 were injured.

The organization committed acts of terrorism against the British, whom it regarded as illegal occupiers, and against Arabs. In particular the Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, British, and United States governments; in media such as The New York Times newspaper; as well as by the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, the 1946 Zionist Congress and the Jewish Agency. However, academics such as Bruce Hoffman and Max Abrahms have written that the Irgun went to considerable lengths to avoid harming civilians, such as issuing pre-attack warnings; according to Hoffman, Irgun leadership urged "targeting the physical manifestations of British rule while avoiding the deliberate infliction of bloodshed."

Albert Einstein, in a letter to The New York Times in 1948, compared Irgun and its successor Herut party to "Nazi and Fascist parties" and described it as a "terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization".

Irgun's tactics appealed to many Jews who believed that any action taken in the cause of the creation of a Jewish state was justified, including terrorism. Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom" ) party, which led to today's Likud party. Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.

[Fla Dem]

18. So just get rid of him and he won't have a say in what happens.

[angrychair]

19. Well that settles that I guess

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he has informed the United States that he opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of any postwar scenario

So I assume we stop all foreign and military assistance immediately? Right? That's the only legitimate decision. Right?

[Scrivener7]

26. It IS but we won't.

[LuvLoogie]

20. The IDF knew. Netanyahu knew.

For a year, they knew.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

22. Bibi needs a war footing to stay in power.

He won't win another election. His hardline agenda brought about the worst attack on Israel in its history! And on his "watch". But he will go down fighting every step of the way to infamy.

[marble falls]

29. Strongman politics almost always requires some sort of over inflated outside threat to stay in power.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

62. His problem though is allowing the attack.

He's massively unpopular in Israel. It's worth keeping an eagle eye on him.

[marble falls]

63. He thought he had a sort of working arrangement with Hamas.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

23. I now this is callous, but Netanyahu just screwed himself.

He relies on US financial and Military support. He has literally doomed the people of Israel.

If he reuses to even consider a Palestinian state, perhaps it is time to slowly cut off sending support to Israel. For Netanyahu has the blood of tens of thousands Palestinian men, women, and children on his hands. Not to mention that of his own people.

[WarGamer]

25. Post of the Day. Thank you.

[Mosby]

66. Israel doesnt rely on anyone.

They spend almost 24 billion annually on defense, 3.8 comes from the US. They can easily do without that, but that gives the US leverage.

You're aware that Israel has a very high per capita GDP? Its 55K, almost as high as the Netherlands. Its higher than Canada, Germany and France.

[WarGamer]

24. Bizarro World when the US is proposing a KSA deal to Israel and is rebuffed...

Who woulda thunkit?

[Mosby]

67. I thought Bonesaw bin Salman was on the US's badside?

I guess it's all about perspective. And antisemitism.

[marble falls]

28. That ought to boost the threats on Israeli security. Netanyahu is a dangerous man. Has been for decades ...

... knowing how he himself feels about a Jewish homeland, how can he ignore that same longing and right of the Palestinian people???

This lean of his will bring no peace to anyone but the mounting numbers of dead on both sides.

[louis-t]

31. Hell, I knew that as soon as IDF started bulldozing Palestinian cemeteries.

[Arazi]

33. Netanyahu and Hamas gotta go for there to be any chance

And I firmly believe Biden might be the only old and steady hand to force a 2state solution.

[ripcord]

38. After decades of attacks Israel is tired of it

Giving Gaza to the Palestinians was supposed to improve things but all it did was give Palestinians a closer base to attack Israel.

[ExciteBike66]

43. "Giving"? Like it was a f-ing favor to herd them in the strip?

[ripcord]

44. The UN put pressure on Israel to give Gaza to the Palestinians after they took it from Egypt

All Israel got out if it was a severe decrease in national security. Israel should have to the UN to go fuck themselves.

[uponit7771]

59. Gaza oppression didn't start first? tis

[TomSlick]

39. This is a very complicated issue.

Israel must protect itself against Hamas. Hamas sees the death of civilians as a positive and, as a result, is using civilians as human shields. Nevertheless, the scope of civilian casualties is unacceptable.

Of course, Bibi is unmoved by the civilian casualties. For Bibi, the death of Palestinian civilians is a feature and not a bug. It is up to the people of Israel to decide if Bibi should pay any political price for Israel becoming an international pariah.

My concern is the future of the US. Some number of Democratic voters are turning against President Biden because the US is seen as complicit in Bibi's policies. It will not take many Democratic voters to stay home in November to swing the election to TFG resulting in the death of the US Republic.

I don't know the answer but President Biden must some how bring Bibi to heel or distance himself from Bibi. If President Biden cannot find the answer, the Republic is doomed.

[moniss]

40. And your "friends" need to be able to say

no to you. It won't happen. But they should say it. I've said before that the solution should be imposed by an international UN peacekeeping force. At one point before the end of the mandate the British were precisely right in opposing the proposed partition plan. At that time their reasoning was that any solution that was not agreed to by the Arab bloc/Palestinians would fail. They were correct. But basically half of the plan was allowed by the UN to go into effect. That was the mistake at that time. Even given all their faults and bad behavior during the Mandate the British were right about this. A modification of the broken clock theory in a way.

So now after decades and decades of the world community and the UN giving in to the idea that the US will somehow shepherd a negotiated solution as an unbiased facilitator we have undeniable proof that the approach is a complete and utter failure and nobody could possibly contain busting out in laughter at the idea that the US is or has been functioning as an unbiased facilitator.

Imposition of a solution by the international community will likely not happen because of the US veto. But it is all that will work. If Israel reoccupies Gaza, which I said early on was the likely scenario, does any rational person think the violence and attacks in response are not going to take place? How does decades more of violent attacks against Israeli citizens continuing on forever into the future provide a benefit to them or give their future a hope of peace? It is madness to assume it would be anything other than continuing horror. The British conclusion redux. Even if Likud and the rest of the hardliners think that basically taking over Gaza and the West Bank to an even greater degree than now would somehow end the attacks they are fooling themselves and misleading their citizens if they are claiming it would.

So the bottom line is that all of this mess looks like it will continue on for decades and decades longer with no end in sight. End Hamas and another takes it's place. End that one and then another rises to continue the attacks. Given the chance years ago to say no to the idea of a half a plan the UN chose, after a great deal of crooked political and economic pressure on members to accept the plan, the idea that they could somehow "contain" the fallout, make false promises and kick the can down the road. In that regard little has changed or is likely to.

Upon edit I wanted to add that if people look at my posts they will see me decry the actions of all sides throughout the history of all of this. However it seems to be constantly necessary to say that in every post when making any statement about this subject.

[DemocraticPatriot]

47. I oppose Netanyahoo's opinion and his party in any postwar-scenario...

of course my opinion is worth about as much as his.....

Does he wear adult diapers too? Just throwing that out there...

of course he did nothing to prevent this war, it seems,
he even did things to strengthen HAMAS,
just because he wants the Palestinians to remain without a country.


Drop dead, Israeli Trump- wannabe!

[NutmegYankee]

56. Netanyahu and his trashy party are a major part of the problem.

The other parties want to resolve this long running issue with a Palestinian State. The proposal from the Arab states today was fantastic for Israel. Recognition from them of it's statehood and a pledge for them to rebuild Gaza and make it a functional and stable nation. It's pure idiocy to turn down such an offer.

[uponit7771]

58. +1, looks like the solution is the opposite of whatever Bibi wants

[Nanjeanne]

65. This bodes well. - No Arab Community in Israel Among Those Eligible for State Sponsored Gun Handout

The National Security Ministry refuses to publish the list of eligible communities or the criteria used, but a look at the Ministry's website reveals: even Arab communities on the border are not included in the list, while neighboring Jewish communities, even if farther away, are included

On of the leading factors determining whether residents of a municipality are eligible for a weapons license is its proximity to a border. However, Haaretz' examination revealed that while some Arab communities are closer to borders than Jewish ones, the Jewish locales were found to be eligible for licenses while the Arab ones were not. Even Druze or Bedouin communities whose residents routinely serve in the Israeli army were not included in the list.

https://archive.is/Xvg]