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How To Spot Fascism Before It's Too Late (Original Post) KS Toronado Dec 2023 OP
K & R Awesome post! FakeNoose Dec 2023 #1
Indeed! I LOVE the illustrations. calimary Dec 2023 #4
It's likely already too late. J_William_Ryan Dec 2023 #2
It is, sadly. When half the popluation or about that is willing to discard the law Eliot Rosewater Dec 2023 #3
I know you didn't mean half the population... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #8
Half of the voting population, then. And over a 3rd of the population tunes it out and wont Eliot Rosewater Dec 2023 #9
I agree with you on THAT!... Think. Again. Dec 2023 #10
Bigly K&R Bundbuster Dec 2023 #5
K&R onecaliberal Dec 2023 #6
Fascism/Nazism weren't quite the same. Igel Dec 2023 #7
Fascism does NOT hate capitalism SidneyR Dec 2023 #27
Aww. Reminds me of an Italian gent I knew some years back. peppertree Dec 2023 #11
MAGA Is Fascism CitizenZero Dec 2023 #12
Agree completely, but unfortunately General Milley has already retired FakeNoose Dec 2023 #15
I like how you think and I'll build on that KS Toronado Dec 2023 #22
I Think That Is A Good Idea CitizenZero Dec 2023 #30
Election is a mere 11 months away now, time to get busy KS Toronado Dec 2023 #31
K&R x millions Wild blueberry Dec 2023 #13
K&R. Bookmarked and Thanks. c-rational Dec 2023 #14
People see it already. The larger danger that risks TheKentuckian Dec 2023 #16
K&R Excellent post! mountain grammy Dec 2023 #17
I've shared this on here before, but worth doing again: lastlib Dec 2023 #18
Milton Mayer, "They Thought They Were Free" markodochartaigh Dec 2023 #19
I've noticed discussions about fascism in the media that would not have occurred Poiuyt Dec 2023 #20
Thank you for sharing kimbutgar Dec 2023 #21
A lot of American leaders supported Italy's fascism until it aligned with the Nazis LeftInTX Dec 2023 #23
K&R and thank you for the history lesson - bookmarking Rhiannon12866 Dec 2023 #24
Recognizing Fascism 101 SouthernDem4ever Dec 2023 #25
Yes, I see you got an A+ in class. KS Toronado Dec 2023 #32
Well done! Martin68 Dec 2023 #26
Jared and Ivanka were not unpaid advisors. raging moderate Dec 2023 #28
An easy way is to look for those wearing a red hat with MAGA on them. republianmushroom Dec 2023 #29

Eliot Rosewater

(32,556 posts)
3. It is, sadly. When half the popluation or about that is willing to discard the law
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 05:39 PM
Dec 2023

and constitution for a dictator, it's all over.

Wont matter that he lost the election, when he does.

Think. Again.

(21,382 posts)
8. I know you didn't mean half the population...
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:07 PM
Dec 2023

..it really was less than one third of the over-18, voting age population that voted for trump in 2020.

Let's not credit them with more support than they actually have.

Eliot Rosewater

(32,556 posts)
9. Half of the voting population, then. And over a 3rd of the population tunes it out and wont
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:13 PM
Dec 2023

pay attention.

"If you can keep it."

I guess my anger is more based in HOW we got here, 2016

Trashing of Hillary by BOTH sides

Think. Again.

(21,382 posts)
10. I agree with you on THAT!...
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:30 PM
Dec 2023

...I will never forget being so sure, for so many months, that Clinton would win, only to wake up the day after the polls closed to an absolutely terrifying future.

Igel

(36,543 posts)
7. Fascism/Nazism weren't quite the same.
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:03 PM
Dec 2023

But we merge them. They're close enough.

One thing they had in common is overlooked. Widely.

Fascism was as much a political as an economic system. Politically-oriented tune out one of the two axes. Science teaching in the US is moving to "3-dimensional teaching," let's at least aim for 2-dimensional thinking in the social "sciences," shall we?

Both hated capitalism. "Everything in the state, nothing outside the state, everything for the state." Fascism. The government controls production ... indirectly. Hitler hated capitalism, and is on record more than once saying it--the business owners could keep their kit provided they knew their masters. The government says, "Make X," they make X. They get uppity and don't obey their overlords? Bad things happen.

It's Hitler. It's Mussolini. It's Putin. It's any head of government that tells as business that's told in peacetime to disobey the government will lead to extreme pain for the owner--maybe arrest and death, maybe confiscation, maybe pro/persecution until ithe owner/means of production is either obeisant or bought for cheap in bankrupcy.

That bears the the awkward designation "corporatism." If you're authoritarian and don't want to control the means of production, it's enough to puppeteer those who do control the means of production. Easier, actually--if they screw up, you have plausible deniability and somebody to draw in quarter to entertain and distract the messes. Uh ... "masses." It's being a Pierson's Puppeteer--leading from behind.

By the way, you look at nationalism, and you get Putin, you get Maduro, you get Trump, you get the PLO and you get the PRC and Taiwan; you get white nationalists and you get many BLM supporters, and MEChA, for sure. It's like saying that ethnicity focuses on "food". I like food, Xi likes food, a random boricua likes food, as does a random Maori. Obviously we all like the same "food"! Uh. Just. No. Food comes in varieties, varieties of shades of grey--and, getting past 1D thinking, shades of blue and red and yellow, in 3D. At least.

Similarly, there are distinctions in nationalism. One can think one's culture or nation is worth existing without thinking all the others must be extinguished; one can think one's culture or nation is so superior that obviously inferiors, "deplorables," must convert. (Same for religion. I'm happy coexisting with Hindus and Sikhs. Preachers, religious or ideological or nationalistic or whatever--those who want to change my 'culture' and 'beliefs' or 'values', in short, 'change agents' ... thanks for reminding me why I have a front door and ignore the door bell half the time; why I have an 'off' button on my radio and tv, and there's that x in the upper right-hand screen of every browser I've used for 25 years. Now, youse, just sod off, you effing POC.) (My '90s acronym for "piece of crap." Used "POS" until "point of sale" pushed out "piece of shit." "POT" [ piece of turd ] is too 2-5. And "POP"? Too pre-K-1. I will *not* call Trump, "You effing POP.&quot

Flattening thinking and models is like flattening a cat or a child. Nothing good comes of it. Just minimalist thinking with delusions of ... no, just delusions.

SidneyR

(134 posts)
27. Fascism does NOT hate capitalism
Sun Dec 10, 2023, 11:01 AM
Dec 2023

Fascism is the last-resort DEFENSE of capitalism. Elites only support democracy when it can be manipulated in their favor. When that isn't working they abandon their pretense of democracy and employ fascism. It is used by elites who feel beleaguered by increasing liberalism, anti-racism, women's rights, and perceived threats to the profit margin, etc. When racism and sexism decline, the working class becomes more united. That must be stopped for continued elite dominance.

peppertree

(22,850 posts)
11. Aww. Reminds me of an Italian gent I knew some years back.
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:50 PM
Dec 2023

He was born in 1926 - and so, grew up under il Douche.

Contrary to popular belief, the economy didn't improve at all under Benito - and many cities, towns and neighborhoods before long started to show it (mind you, he lived in Liguria - it was much worse in the South).

But because this malaise ran counter to the official narrative, every time he visited any particular place, two teams of goons were sent:

The first, was to pre-emptively arrest anyone whom they knew (or suspected) would be likely to jeer at il Douche, or throw something at his motorcade.

This same team would keep an eye on the crowd once he got there.

The second, was a team of painters and cleaners (often political prisoners) - who were sent to spruce up the façades along his route, and especially in the square where he'd give his speech.

Because he was so short - and because he refused to use anything other than a normal lectern - a small ramp was always placed behind it.

Anyone caught laughing, could - at the least - expect to "lose" their job or business.

That - suffice it to say - is what Trump wants for this country.

CitizenZero

(595 posts)
12. MAGA Is Fascism
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 06:58 PM
Dec 2023

MAGA is Fascism or American Nazism. It is way past time that we call it that. It is our hope and intent that Biden beats Trump in the next election. But we must prepare for a possible loss to Trump. If Trump wins, he will install MAGA Fascists at the top of the Federal Government (Department of Justice, Homeland Security, etc.) and the US Military.

We must prepare now for the probable MAGA Fascist takeover. We need to identify those in the government who would oppose a Trump Regime- including Justice Department and the US Military members. We must set up a chain of command that will not execute unlawful and unconstitutional orders. Such as deploying the US Military in any illegal domestic operation, to round up immigrants or to use military to enter major US Cities and control them in the name of suppressing crime. We need to oppose any attempt by a corrupted Justice Department to arrest journalists or political dissenters (which is another classic fascist move).

We need leaders like General Milley and others that will stop an illegal takeover of the Military and to have a legitimate chain of command outside of Trump's control. We must have a clear chain of command of Officers and Soldiers that are sworn and loyal to the Constitution, and not loyal to the MAGA dictator Trump.

We need to have this in place before the next election. If Trump wins, we must have a counter operation to his fascist subversion of the Military and the Federal Government. We must have a counter-fascist organization ready on Day One. We can not just hope that Biden will win. We must prepare for a possible loss. Or in the event of another Coup attempt by Trump and MAGA should they lose the next election like the last one.

FakeNoose

(36,519 posts)
15. Agree completely, but unfortunately General Milley has already retired
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 07:53 PM
Dec 2023

Let's hope there are others still in the military who also have his brain power and conscientious leadership.

KS Toronado

(20,614 posts)
22. I like how you think and I'll build on that
Sun Dec 10, 2023, 01:04 AM
Dec 2023

How about a live broadcast with Biden instructing the Joint Chiefs and others in the upper levels
of the chain of command to start implementing policies so that everyone in the military down to
the new privates are loyal to their oath to the Constitution so that everyone understands it and
understands illegal orders from a President must be ignored.

And give them examples of illegal orders. Make videos about "Real Duty" everyone can watch,
get the Pentagon shouting about "Real Duty" and make sure every voter knows that President
Biden implemented these policies against FASCISM
creeping into our Government.

Kind of a "Let's stop FASCISM in it's tracks" policy/movement.

CitizenZero

(595 posts)
30. I Think That Is A Good Idea
Sun Dec 10, 2023, 07:56 PM
Dec 2023

I also think that it should not just be Joe Biden putting out this message, but the entire Democratic apparatus and the legitimate News Media. I mention General Milley a lot. I recognize that he is retired, but he can go on TV and the Media and send this message to his fellow soldiers- Do not let Trump enact illegal and unconstitutional orders should he be re-elected. The Military is sworn to protect the Country and the Constitution. They are not beholden to any one person, one cult of personaility. Milley and others need to be out there sending this message so that the rank and file Military as well as Leaders and Officers can hear this. This must be done before the next election. If it is not done and Trump wins, it may be too late at that point. He might have control over the Government and the Military. We need to sound the alarm and make concrete plans RIGHT NOW.. Soldiers and Officers might be confused and might follow illegal orders from Trump if he regains the position of Commander-in-Chief. We are in danger of a real Fascist takeover just like Germany in the 1930s. So it is dire yet we can rise to the occasion. We defeated Hitler, we defeated Mussolini, we can defeat Trump. Better that we defeat him at the Ballot Box, but we must be prepared to oppose him should he win the next election. Thank you for your smart comments.

KS Toronado

(20,614 posts)
31. Election is a mere 11 months away now, time to get busy
Mon Dec 11, 2023, 12:29 AM
Dec 2023

Yes a big push to inform every voter our Military is getting an education that true loyalty is to
our Country's Constitution never a single person. Plus every military unit whether platoon, or
company needs to have regular meetings discussing FASCISM and how to deal with it.

Reprint the WWII anti-Fascist posters and post them everywhere on our posts. Make new
anti-Fascist posters using Jan 6th photos and post them everywhere on our posts. Let's make
sure everyone in the Armed Services knows FASCISM and misplaced loyalty is bad. An added
bonus should be increased votes for our side.

I sincerely hope the powers that be in the Democratic Party are approaching retired Generals like
Mark Milley and others to educate those still on active duty.

I hope they're going after big name people in the entertainment industry to make anti-Тяцмp
TV ads and billboards.

And lining up well known Republicans who know Тяцмp is a clear and present danger not only
to this Country but the world, and listen closely to how they would attack him.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
16. People see it already. The larger danger that risks
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 07:58 PM
Dec 2023

too late territory is a mass unwillingness to fess to it being on the move and at most talking about "fevers" to break and "understanding".

It is here now, stop counting elements and worrying about precise terminology and just stop the threat to life, liberty, equality under the law, self determination. justice, broad prosperity or looking out for the least amongst us.

If any of those things even vaguely ring any bells as being important then it is all bullshit aside and stop this.

We are not reactionaries and must never become such but we have to get out of our heads a little more.
Deliberations at least need to be focused on actions rather than definitions and political theories.

There is a time to be visceral.

Don't save it for a comeback.

Win now and save a whole lot of misery, death, hell, and high but dank water .

markodochartaigh

(2,225 posts)
19. Milton Mayer, "They Thought They Were Free"
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 08:55 PM
Dec 2023

To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

Poiuyt

(18,272 posts)
20. I've noticed discussions about fascism in the media that would not have occurred
Sat Dec 9, 2023, 09:09 PM
Dec 2023

just a few years ago. People's eyes are being opened. Of course it helps that Trump is openly talking about being a dictator.

LeftInTX

(32,189 posts)
23. A lot of American leaders supported Italy's fascism until it aligned with the Nazis
Sun Dec 10, 2023, 03:38 AM
Dec 2023

They felt it brought a sense of identity and pride to Italy. Italy was in pretty bad shape. Italian-Americans were marginalized.
Mussolini tired to revive Italy's history and culture. (Rome, the Renaissance). It was around this time, that Columbus Day became a holiday.

When the German's tried it, one asks, "What was German culture and heritage?" Beer, Bratwurst and Sauerkraut?
I guess they turned to the Huns and also created a new culture....

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