UNPRECIDENTED: So what happens if TRUMP DIES, 2 or 3 days before

[DemocraticPatriot]

Last edited Sun Nov 12, 2023, 11:25 PM - Edit history (2)

the 2024 presidential election ???

too late for any state to rewrite their ballots...

The US Constitution never considered such a situation..... and the VP candidate would not automatically become the 'president-elect', since the winner of the election (if the GQP actually won it) would have not yet been President anyway...

Yes, in the electoral college, we vote for "electors"----

Those such Repubican electors woud be elected to vote for a 'dead man' in that instance.....
presumably the RNC would align behind another candidate, in that instance.....

Sounds like a recipe for total chaos.... and a lot of lawsuits...



I am asking for the opinions of political and legal experts with this post...
what do you suppose would happen in such a situation ?

(and it IS within the realm of possibility,
that President Joe Biden would WIN against a dead man---
but just throwing this out there.....)

************EDIT:

THANKS to "Ecstatic" who delivered this link, detailing what happens if a major candidate dies, anytime from just before the primaries, through to inauguration day--- a good read, I recommend it:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-happens-if-a-presidential-candidate-cannot-take-office-due-to-death-or-incapacitation-before-january-2025/

In my "3 days before the General Election" scenario, it appears that the RNC would hold an emergency meeting to attempt to select another nominee--- such replacement nominee requiring a majority vote of the RNC. Presuming they made a selection, there would be a publicity blitz, but it would be far too late for the states to change the names of candidates on printed ballots... although I suppose it could be done on electronic voting machines.

Whether the RNC did or did not select a new nominee prior to the election, all votes for Trump electors would still be valid, and the electoral college would meet and vote as usual-- but the vast majority of the Trump electors free to vote for another candidate.

(Whether they would be obliged to vote for the selection of the Republican National Committee would probably depend on individual state laws--- but being the lemming that they are, I suspect almost all of the Republican electors would do so.)

However, as to the General Election itself, with Democratic voters predisposed to vote early, but Republican voters inclined to wait for election day, I suspect many Trump cultists would be demoralized, and not turn out to vote for a dead man, giving President Biden an edge in the results.

[Kennah]

1. I wake up drunk in a field

[DemocraticPatriot]

2. I am there with you, amigo..

[Kennah]

48. We better get a designated driver. Otherwise, we're walking.

[DemocraticPatriot]

70. If I woke up in a field, I'd be walking anyway---

trying to remember where my car is at

[Ocelot II]

3. I party for a week.

[elleng]

4. You and MANY more!!!

[bdamomma]

66. We were estatic

in Nov 2020, when we found out Biden won the election.

A collected sigh of relief, when Biden/Harris were declared winners.

[Think. Again.]

5. The universe ....

...regains the existence of Joy?

[DemocraticPatriot]

6. YES, we would all drink too much and celebrate, but

this is still a serious question. and a legal question......

[Ocelot II]

8. The electoral college isn't likely to vote for a dead guy,

since being dead is probably automatically disqualifying.

[DemocraticPatriot]

11. In this situation, who knows...

but I agree that a dead guy cannot be elected----

Some of those electors might vote for the dead guy, anyway, being 'cultists'....

[CTyankee]

57. This would be a constitutional crisis. We cannot be leaderless. We re-vote, I guess.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

65. No re-vote.

There's no provision for it in the Constitution. Oddly enough, the Constitution really does matter.

If he actually got majority of Electoral votes, I suspect the VP would then become President. But since it's hard to imagine him actually winning the election, who gives a flying fuck?

[Kennah]

49. Reagan proved otherwise, from the neck up

[Kennah]

50. Therein probably lies the answer

If Trump drops dead, it's likely the GOOP would not show up and elect a GOOPer--either Trump or a write-in.

I remember in 1990 when incumbent PG County (MD) Council Member Tony Cicoria was indicted and then convicted. A write-in campaign was organized for then Tacoma Park Mayor Stephen Del Giudice to succeed Cicoria, and he won. I considered this to have been a big deal at the time even though the Republican challenger, J. Lee Ball, to put it mildly, was a strange bird. Local media provided a lot of information about write-in votes and what the State and County Dems were asking voters to do.

A write-in for President, last minute, seems quite unlikely.

I suspect the GOOP would try legal maneuvers, but I don't see anything under the Constitution or law that applies, but that doesn't mean they won't try.

In the end, Biden would be re-elected as President if Trump were to drop dead 3 days before the 2024 election.

[DemocraticPatriot]

71. Votes for Trump would still be valid, since we don't really vote for the candidates themselves,

but for their candidates for the electoral college....

but I do agree, if Trump were dead in the timeframe I suggest, that would give Biden a significant edge--
since Democrats are inclined to vote early,
but Repukes are more inclined to wait for election day
(under instructions from their fuhrer)....

[brush]

53. What a question. Nowhere in the Constitution is that covered...

Last edited Sun Nov 12, 2023, 09:40 PM - Edit history (2)

since it's ratification in 1788? It's kind of unbelievable that a clause covering such an occurrence was included, or by an amendment sometime along the way since then.

[Zeitghost]

67. Not really unbelievable that this would not be covered

As there is no popular vote for President mentioned in the Constitution. The only election that matters in regards to the Constitution is the vote of the electors in the EC. Each state and it's law would govern how the electors would need to proceed if the candidate they were pledged to were to die.

But ultimately, the EC would elect the President as they always have.

[NCIndie]

7. We would not be unpresidented... though the situation would be ....

unprecedented.

[DemocraticPatriot]

9. Heh. "Touche"

[NCIndie]

13. Sorry. It's my nature.

I cannot understand what keeps Trump upright. He should have been dead years ago.

[Dulcinea]

40. Anger & the desire for revenge. nt

[NCIndie]

44. ?

Errr … ok.

[DemocraticPatriot]

33. HEH! Thanks for the spellcheck....

I thought there was something wrong with that, although the DU system did not seem to help me out in this instance..

[eppur_se_muova]

10. True, we vote for electors, but the POTUS and VP are chosen together.

I can't imagine any other outcome than the VP being sworn in as VP, to which office he was elected, then as POTUS by succession.

The POTUS candidate would be "unavailable" to attend the swearing-in, so would never take office. Odd, but probable.

Keep in mind, tfg suggested Tucker Carlson as his running mate. Probably the only outcome worse than tfg himself.

[DemocraticPatriot]

12. But the vice president is not in the line of succession,

until the President under whom they were elected takes the oath of office....


before that happens, they are just some other guy on the street....

[eppur_se_muova]

16. From the Twelfth Amendment:

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/constitutional-amendments-amendment-12-electing-president-and-vice-president

So ... the interpretation of "person" becomes crucial. If the person having the greatest number of votes for President is not a living person, does that count? If yes, then the VP will be sworn in and succeed to POTUS. If not, the runner-up (from the other party, in a two-party-dominated system!) will be POTUS, and the VP will be from the late candidate's party! If there is no agreement the VP (Harris) will "act" as POTUS -- but there's no qualification designating such choice as "temporary" or "acting"!

[DemocraticPatriot]

17. Ok, then I stand corrected.... perhaps....

Welcome acting President Tucker Carlson !!!


This does not grant me any relief................ lol

but thank you

[eppur_se_muova]

18. Apparently, it would not be "acting". nt

[ShazzieB]

28. If its any consolation, consider this.

I doubt Trump would choose Tucks to be his running mate, for the simple reason that I'm pretty sure he kniws about that text where Tucks said he hated Trump "passionately." Trump's massive ego would never allow him to overlook that.

Besides, Tucks is way too obstreperius and opinionated for that job. Trump's going to want a yes-person who will smile and nod at everything he says, even when he's being a complete ass, the way Pence did. In fact, after what happened on January 6, he's probably going to be actively looking for someone who isn't just going to be an obsequious toady but will be willing to break the law for him.

I can't really imagine Tucks doing any of those things. He's not the type to kow tow to anybody, not even Donald Trump.

P.S. Joe's going to win anyway!

[Diamond_Dog]

14. Don't tease me like that!

[DemocraticPatriot]

15. TFG is obviously not very healthy.... so this question is valid

I was not looking for a bunch of us to piss on Trump's hypothetical grave,
(although it was understandable that many of us would....
I should have anticipated that-- LOL)

But I was seeking to raise a legal and political question,
to which I have so far raised no serious answers...lol

Maybe I will get a serious answer tomorrow, or more than one, I hope...

In the meantime---

"The Witch Is Dead!" lol

[MyNameIsJonas]

19. He would still likely appear on the ballot.

If he did the unthinkable and won, there would likely be extraordinary pressure for the House to elect his Vice Presidential nominee - or they could turn around and vote in Trump, who then, on January 20th, since has died, passes the power over to his VP and then the VP appoints his own VP.

[bif]

20. We rejoice?

[fierywoman]

21. I'm just going to throw this into the mix: it doesn't matter because

tfg dead or alive, Joe Biden is going to receive WAY more votes, a la the election we just had where the Dems over performed in like 75% of the races.

[brooklynite]

22. Let me recommend a book....

The People's Choice by jeff Greenfield. A humorous fiction piece, but it lays out the potential complexity of an election where the leading candidate dies before the Electoral College meets.

The bottom line to you question is: nobody knows what happens.

[Dios Mio]

23. Hope I'm not bothered by ants while I'm dead drunk in a field somewhere.

[KS Toronado]

24. Depends if those 10,000,000+ dead people vote Democrat

this time around like they did in 2020, or if they vote for one of their own kind this time.

[liberalla]

25. It will become a new national holiday!

[Warpy]

26. If America takes leave of its senses and his corpse wins

(which would be a distinct improvement, actually, over having the living man win), his VP would take office.

Well, unless it's Fucker Carlson and the Democrats do due diligence and find out which Russian scumbag is running him and for how much.

[moniss]

27. You mean after the national week of celebration?

I suppose we get to see pictures MAGA types rending their red hats. The GQP for their part will hail him as the 2nd best President to Reagan.

[rubbersole]

29. The 'Q' people will keep him alive...

..in their fucked up minds.

[DemocraticPatriot]

73. And he would be celebrating 'tea time' with John F. Kennedy Jr. !

lol

Thankfully the "tea-time Q" are a tiny internet minority.....

[Blue Owl]

30. Please let that happen

[BaronChocula]

31. Am I the only one who's gonna Google this shit? ; )

https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/20431

Filling a Vacancy: From the Nomination to the Electoral College Vote
Since the time of Andrew Jackson's run for the presidency in 1828, individual political parties have had the job of filling any vacancy on their national ticket, either that of their presidential or vice-presidential candidate. If one of their candidates vacates the ticket after they are nominated, either because of death or withdrawal, the party selects a replacement.

Both the Republican and the Democratic parties have rules in their bylaws governing how to fill the vacancy. The Party Chair calls a meeting of the National Committee, and the Committee members at the meeting vote to fill the vacancy on the ticket. A candidate must receive a majority of the votes to win the party's nod.

It's still all theoretical at this point though. Since it's never happened, there would clearly be kinks.

[DemocraticPatriot]

32. Thank you. Nice work...

of course, there would be lawsuits... and riots...

[BaronChocula]

34. In this day and age...

The limbaugh army would find any way to circumvent any consensus on getting out of such a constitutional crisis. There would definitely be guns. But at that point President Biden would still be commander-in-chief. I feel sorry (not) for any sumbitch who acted out stupidly and violently because they didn't get their privilege-gasm.

[Polybius]

46. That's if there's enough time to fill the vacancy, like let's say September

That article is about finding a candidate to rally around and nominate, but it takes time. 3 days before the election is too late to replace his name on the ballot.

[BaronChocula]

56. Other articles mention

moving the election if necessary, but again, this is all hypothetical since it's "unpresidented."

[Polybius]

59. The election can't be moved

It's set in stone in the Constitution. If it's 3 days before the election, most people would have voted anyway. It would create a huge (but fascinating) problem when the Electiral College meets in December.

[BaronChocula]

60. All Article II says is that

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

[Polybius]

63. I mean Election Day itself

It's in the Constitution as the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November. That would have to stay the same.

[BaronChocula]

64. I'm not trying to be a smartypants here

But Congress set the current day for elections in 1845 per their constitutional role. The Constitution says nothing about the date on which elections should be held.

https://www.britannica.com/story/why-are-us-elections-held-on-tuesdays

"Originally, election days varied by state, but in 1845 a law was passed to set a single election day for the entire country. (At first, it applied only to presidential elections, but it was later extended to congressional elections as well.) At that time, the United States was still a largely agrarian society. For farmers, who made up a majority of the labor force, much of the year was taken up by the planting, tending, and harvesting of crops. Early November was a good time to vote because the harvest was over but the weather was still relatively mild."

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46413.pdf

"The Constitution does not designate a specific day for holding elections. It allows states to choose the “Times, Places and
Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives,” but it permits Congress to “make
or alter” those state rules “except as to the Places of [choosing] Senators.”1 The Constitution also
empowers Congress to select the time for choosing presidential electors for the Electoral College
and the day all states’ electors vote for President and Vice President."

[Tickle]

35. We bury him

Enough with orange man please

[tavernier]

36. Don't forget the stake in the heart first...

You don’t want that corpse to come back.

[Tickle]

37. You are so right

Then he's dead for ever. 😂

[Chainfire]

38. I think that the Republicans would demand a four year Weekend At Bernies.

In any case, if elected, he would be unable to take the oath, so there!

[Autumn]

39. We celebrate. No matter when he dies.

[tavernier]

41. I won't celebrate; I don't believe in that.

But I will be sure to visit the grave site. I’ll start drinking a gallon of water three days ahead.

[Autumn]

42. I'll celebrate enough for several people.

[tavernier]

43. I'll pee enough for several people.

So if anyone is into grave dancing, watch out for the squishy parts.

Gosh, this is turning into a party!

[Paladin]

45. Nation-wide street dance. (nt)

[Polybius]

47. Better yet, what happens if someone is elected President and then dies?

Would the VP-elect be nominated by the Electoral College? Would the loser have a good chance to win now?

[Ponietz]

52. A Tucker Carlson presidency

[ecstatic]

51. Depends on the timing

This article covers nearly every scenario:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-happens-if-a-presidential-candidate-cannot-take-office-due-to-death-or-incapacitation-before-january-2025/

The RNC could outright pick another nominee, no primary needed, if it's before election day.

[DemocraticPatriot]

68. THANKS! That certainly gave answers to all possible relative questions!

I'll add it to my OP...

[Turbineguy]

54. I'll have to start going to church again.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

55. Somehow, I think the U.S. Extreme Court would get involved in the election.

And nothing good comes from at bunch.

[RainCaster]

58. I still vote for Joe

But I do a really silly dance first.

[Attilatheblond]

61. Might depend on the political affilation of the medical team

If GOP leaning, they might just keep the heart/lung pumps plugged in and John Roberts goes to the hospital to swear in the zombie.

If medical team leans left, they will charge their phones and call for backup because the hospital would be treated to a Jan 6 type riot, with Ginni Thomas beating the drum for Clarence to be sworn in.

I am only half kidding.

[Wounded Bear]

62. I still wouldn't vote for him...nt

[LudwigPastorius]

69. A slightly more likely Constitutional nightmare is...

Trump is convicted and sentenced to prison, but still wins the presidency. (ocurring in either order)

[CTyankee]

74. That's a nice little question for the courts, I would imagine. Is there an emergency provision for US Supreme Court

getting the question?

[Retrograde]

72. Millions of people will have voted by then

Early voting in California begins roughly a month before the official election day - and all registered voters will be getting mail-in ballots. Other states also have early voting, so between that and mail-in ballots it's possible the election may have already been decided by then, even if the votes haven't been officially counted. I don't think we get a do-over, even if both Donnie and Biden die before the 1st Tuesday after the 2nd Monday in November.