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AZLD4Candidate

(6,094 posts)
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:11 PM Oct 2023

My interracial marriage in China and what it's like - a perspective

Has anyone seen the move "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" It came out in 1968. It came out after the Loving V. Virginia decision.

In it, a black man and a white woman fall in love and plan to get married. While the bigotry is only hinted at (the old fashioned maid, the white art gallery assistant, the black man's father), we know after the final credits role what Sidney Poitier and Katherine Houghton will go through for the rest of their lives, as well as any children they may have.

After all, race has been a major part of American society since the colonial era. Native Americans were brutalized, Africans were (to use the textbooks Ron DeSantis wants) "imported," and pretty much anyone that wasn't WASP has been marginalized and shunned until they assimilated well enough for the majority to accept. It took until 1960 for the country to have a Catholic president (we've had enough since then) and until 2008 for the country to have a non-white president.

And yet, as George Carlin said, things changed, but only on paper. The "rights" most minorities have are transparent. There is now a more soft racism than overt. Cab drivers will ignore potential black customers to take white ones, black people will be denied loans and mortgages more than white people, and punishments for similar crimes will be worse for black people than for white people.

When it comes to marriage, society accepts more if a white man marries a minority than a minority man marrying a white woman. Thanks to Agent Orange and his cabal of troglodytes, this is now more in for face like it was in before.

So, looking at the title of this thread, what is the point of all of this and why am I gasing?

汉奸,香蕉人. . .this are things my wife is called on the street. People see us together and these are the things they hiss and whisper loud enough for both of us to hear it. The first is "han jian," which means "race traitor." The second, "xiang jiao ren," is calling her a "banana." I actually heard a few old men and women say something similar to "中国男人配不上你这样的妓女吗," which loosen translates to "chinese men aren't good enough for a whores like you?"

Add to the face that I am referred to as 洋垃圾 (yang la ji) which means "foreign trash" or 白皮猪 (bai pi zhu) which means "white skinned pig" and you see where I am going with this. "Jews deserved what they get because all they do is cause problems" was something else I've been told. 希特勒是一个伟大的人 meaning "Hitler was a great man." All of this simply because when I step outside, I stick out like a sore thumb. Everyone knows I'm not Chinese.

The phrase 洋垃圾 (foreign trash) is extremely racist, because it implies the only reason I am in China is because I am an LBH (loser back home) and that I came here because the only thing I have going for me is my language ability and skin color. It doesn't matter I came to China originally to research for screenplays I was writing and looking to setup the ground work for my PhD dissertation which would be on the the aftermath of the Rape of Nanking. All that matters is how I look and where I am from.

Being Jewish, I got that in the US too because I proudly wear my Star of David everyday. Here, it's because of how I look. And my wife gets it even more. She gets anonymous emails and WeChat messages threatening her and her family's safety if I don't ‘离婚那个外国猴子’ (divorce that foreign monkey).

So, when I watch "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," it is personal. I'm living the life Sidney Poitier and Katherine Houghtons' characters will life when the ending credits are over. I get the taxi treatment. I get people getting up from their seats in on subways, curling their lips in disgust, and moving away from me. I get the "why is that thing here" attitude. I've been told "we don't serve foreigners here" in of all places Shanghai. When my wife and I are in public together, we get the looks of disgust and hatred. "How dare that foreigner steal one of our women!"

I guess what I am saying is racism and bigotry aren't solely American. And it's ethnocentric to think that. The Han treat their minorities like dirt, and they are 92% of the Chinese population. Yet, in the Chinese caste system, foreigners are the "untouchable." I used to joke that foreign men were a Chinese woman's dirty little secret. Nice to look at in the gym, fun to talk to in the bar, enjoyable to take home and have sex with (so long as they do in in a way where no one knows, similar to how white women were with black men pre-modern times), but don't be seen in public socially with one. Professionally is okay, but socially will cause problems.

It only gets worse because the CCP has ramped up the racism and xenophobia to 1000 since COVID19. Every problem in China is because of foreigners and if you're married to one, you not only turned your back on the motherland, but you help destroy China from within. And your children will be half blood, half-breed mutants that no Chinese person will accept because the foreigners blood is in that mutant offspring.

Sounds like how things where when black and white people had a baby before it became socially indifferent. The biggest difference is American racism is private. Chinese racism is government sponsored and sanctions. And the Chinese have a government sponsored pogroms against the foreign population in its past. . .the most recent being the Boxer Rebellion of 1898. Under the CCP with Winnie the Flu, it's gearing up.

Now do you all in DU family see why I were are leaving and switching my wife's IR1 visa interview from Guangzhou to Bangkok and I took at temp job in Phuket until we head back to the US?

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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OAITW r.2.0

(26,894 posts)
1. Your reality sucks.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:15 PM
Oct 2023

But there are many foreign friendly regions in China. Zhongshan is one. I know a lot of mixed race couples there...and I mean mixed,

AZLD4Candidate

(6,094 posts)
2. We got this treatment in cosmopolitan Shanghai, China's answer to NY.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:17 PM
Oct 2023

If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

Where I currently am in Qingdao, I got spit on by a man simply waiting to buy a subway ticket listening to, of all people, John Lennon's "Imagine."

OAITW r.2.0

(26,894 posts)
3. 30 years ago, we were treated like rockstars.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:22 PM
Oct 2023

When I went to China for the 1st time in the early 90's...it was weird. The English speaking Chinese were desperate to improve their conversational English....and I was happy to help.

I was also damn good at Lying Dice.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,094 posts)
4. That was life under Hu Jintao. Winnie the Flu is a combo of Adolf Hitler/Donald Trump/Mao Zedong
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:28 PM
Oct 2023

There's a reason I call him "The Chinese Donald Trump."

OAITW r.2.0

(26,894 posts)
5. Indeed....this fucker is killing modern Chinese society.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:38 PM
Oct 2023

And my friends and associates are living it. Destroying the creative capitals of China - Hong Kong and Shanghai as well as dozens of other commercial centers. The CCP is the political class that never did squat for China, but are the wealthy class now....

WarGamer

(14,072 posts)
6. Sounds scary... my experience is different.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:41 PM
Oct 2023

in the 00's, I was an engineer for a major US BioPharma and spent time "babysitting" a facility in Ningbo.

I lived in an offsite complex of mostly foreign workers, had housekeeping, food delivery and such things... spent limited time "in the wild" but found everyone to be pleasant.

In fact, I thought the young women were quite friendly... maybe especially so.

In your experience, is that because I was seen as a "highly educated" professional? Deserving a different spot on their social ladder?

The women working at the facility frequently brought me small gifts, it was really nice... and would look for time to sit and talk. It was an ego boost, to be honest.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,094 posts)
7. That was under Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao. Winnie the Flu has destroyed this place.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 11:49 PM
Oct 2023
In your experience, is that because I was seen as a "highly educated" professional? Deserving a different spot on their social ladder?


You were being used to improve China with your expertise. I am licensed, certified teacher, so I'm a loser back home to start. I'm not teaching STEM, so that's strike two. I'm living in an era of enhanced, rewarded sociopathic bullying and intimidation, so that's strike three.

Foreign scientists and engineers are used to their expertise, like the Nazis used people like Einstein. . .get all you can, then get rid of them. Kleptocracy is big here.

Bayard

(23,458 posts)
9. Do you see any difference in the way you are treated,
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 12:26 AM
Oct 2023

By young people, and older folks? I would think the younger would be more open and accepting than hardcore traditionalists.

I hope you and your wife find your right place in the world, with peace and happiness.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,094 posts)
10. Younger men threaten me to fistfights when they are in groups because foreigners steal their
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 01:12 AM
Oct 2023

women.

Younger women see me as their personal ATM and if I don't do that, I am told I am foreign trash that needs to leave China because no Chinese woman will accept me if i don't take care of her and give her everything they want. When I say I'm married to a Chinese woman, they call my wife a whore that deserves to be mistreated by foreign trash.

Younger people have been subjected to Winnie the Flu's patriotic education system and are trained to hate foreigners by everyone.

Dorian Gray

(13,685 posts)
12. I'm shocked that they'd be on the side of Hitler
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 05:29 AM
Oct 2023

when I lived in China (honestly, it was a long time ago... in the 1990s), the Chinese were still very strongly pro American/anti Japanese. In Canton/Hong Kong, it wouldn't be uncommon to be called a Gwai Lo/Po (Foreign devil/ghost), but in the Mandarin speaking parts, they were horrified at the idea of calling me that. They thought it was rude.

I'm not surprised that xenophobia has increased with world events, but that's extreme. yikes.

betsuni

(26,996 posts)
13. How is this a surprise?
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 05:37 AM
Oct 2023

When I married a Japanese man in the early '90s, his family refused to meet me. I was personally responsible for WWII and the death of their relatives in that war because I'm American. So what? It's not personal. Go to a different country, deal with it.

CarlYasutomo

(63 posts)
15. 1990s seems a bit late for that kind of attitude...
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 08:58 AM
Oct 2023

I (white American guy) arrived in Japan in the 1990s and was fortunate not to encounter the same attitude you found in your in-laws. There is actually a large proportion of the Japanese population that admires the US and has positive feelings toward Americans. The relatively enlightened policies of the occupying forces after WW2 (which focused on rebuilding Japan) has a lot to do with that. My host family when I was a student basically said, "Thank God we were occupied by the US and not the Soviets."

My father-in-law, who my wife had told me was very racist, fortunately found the maturity to welcome me into their family and was very gracious toward me.

CarlYasutomo

(63 posts)
14. I am so sorry. Here in Japan...
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 07:35 AM
Oct 2023

I am so sorry. I (white male) have lived in Japan for many years and have been married to my Japanese wife for over 20 years. Many foreigners here complain about Japanese racism, but it is NOTHING like what you have just described in China. I have never once heard an epithet similar to any of the numerous ones you've listed. Makes me feel thankful to be here.

I wish you a speedy and smooth return to the US.

Oopsie Daisy

(3,897 posts)
16. Such a sad story. I just can't believe people can be that cruel.
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 02:09 PM
Oct 2023

I must say, you do very well typing in Chinese. That's impressive.

GuppyGal

(1,748 posts)
17. Welcome Home !!!
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 02:35 PM
Oct 2023

Woot Woot things ain't perfect here but sound a whole helluva lot better than that !!!!!!!

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