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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou Want to Raise the Retirement Age? Walk a Mile In Our Shoes First
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/you-want-raise-retirement-age-walk-mile-ou(Chuck Todd: Republicans will give Democrats all the revenue they want, if they just agree to raise the retirement age. Trust them.)
I don't know about anyone else, but as someone who has actually worked at one of those jobs where you take a shower at the end of the work day and not before you go in, I'm sick to death of watching these overpaid television pundits and their counterparts in the Congress, nonchalantly discussing raising the retirement age. It may not matter much to them, but there are real economic hardships involved when you force the average wage earner out there to continue to work until they drop dead if the retirement age is raised any higher than it already is now.
If our beltway Villagers and politicians really believe that it's no big deal to raise the retirement age for the rest of America, how about we ask them to walk a mile in our shoes? I wonder if any of them would decide that maybe it's not such a great idea to be doing physical labor well into your late sixties if they were the ones actually having to do those jobs?
I wonder if Chuck Todd would be a little more worried about when he might be able to retire if he were say, some migrant worker picking berries and in need of daily visits to the chiropractor he can't afford because his back is screaming all day from being bent over?
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)sheet metal or handling pneumatic power tools like grinders.
When he was 60, he developed arthritis in his hands, which were so important. He didn't make much money (too much of a perfectionist) and couldn't retire. In fact, he couldn't retire at 62, either. He had to keep on going to 65.
Back then, your SS benefit was determined by your last five years' income. He bore it stoicly. Thank heavens that my Mom had a less physically demanding job (elem. teacher) and her income and Medigap policy helped immensely.
I just wonder how Chuckie Todd or Robert Halperin or Joe Scar himself would handle that if they woke up and were in my Dad's situation.
CTyankee
(63,708 posts)shoulder is shot from carrying heavy fixtures for 35 years, his knees are both getting replaced due to having worked on them for so many years and his eyes are in bad shape because he was a solderer before he was a plumber. Thankfully, he worked for the state university system and is in a union which covers him with medical insurance until he reaches Medicare age. And he has a pension.
Our auto mechanic has none of that. His wife died at an early age from a cancer that wasn't caught in time because he was self employed and could not afford decent medical insurance. His sons and daughter work in his shop and their kids are on state health care. They all work like dogs and have seen their income drop because of the recession. They are good people and incredibly hard working but are Republicans and I can't figure it out.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)and medical care at 55.
Sometimes folks can do something else part-time, but so many are just physically shot by then, if not earlier.
Unfortunately, they're stoic. I wish that they would become politically active to try to show the white collar types in congress what it's like in the real world.
Fridays Child
(23,998 posts)Warpy
(110,746 posts)if they ever tried following a nurse around. And that's just following, they wouldn't even being heaving 300 pounders out of bed and half carrying them to the bathroom or out into the hall for a post surgical walk.
Men who sit at desks in air conditioned offices really don't know what they're talking to when it comes to retirement. The age needs to be lowered, not raised, with people able to draw half benefits in their mid 50s, corporate expiration date and when most of us doing physical jobs start having significant pain in our bodies.
Not all work is office work and most of the rest of it wrecks our bodies. Having us unable to work for 10 years or more until our benefits kick in is a recipe for having all of us start the disability paperwork at age 50 so we can approved at 55 when we need it. And disability pays more than social security does and that will cancel out any benefit of having people ineligible until they are 70.
Skittles
(152,918 posts)monitoring multiple computer screens and excessive typing for 12 hours a a pop for decades have wrecked my eyes and hands, and believe me your ass and back can truly ache if you cannot get up for extended periods of time. And don't even get me started on what being on a conference call for nine hours with offshore workers does to your mind
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)Hard physical work, office work, etc. It all takes a toll on you unless you're one of the 10 percent who sits around, has someone get their coffee for them, can spend hours shooting the shit, can take time off whenever you want, has someone to do all the chores for you.
My last job was an office job, and I came home at the end of the day so tired that I didn't have the energy to make dinner.
Warpy
(110,746 posts)but it didn't come anywhere near the toll on my body that nursing did.
Sorry folks, but watching screens and typing all day is not the same. It just turns your brain to mush after a while, especially when they keep piling on the work and the stress.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)That would be like saying nursing is just "jabbing people with needles and gabbing at the nurses' station all day."
My office job was physically demanding -- doing repetitive tasks, while sitting down. At the end of the day, I had a headache. My arms and shoulders ached. My back was starting to go out on me.
You need to walk in someone else's shoes before you characterize their work. (And yes, I have done patient care in a hospital -- and in the field -- so I know what nurses do.)
greatauntoftriplets
(175,654 posts)That said, I agree with you about office work. It's taxing as hell. Plus, not all disabilities are a result of physical labor. Some are due to illness.
Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)Here in Canada our retirement age unexpectedly and for no good reason just jumped to 67, for anyone who is currently under 54 years old. Make no mistake that when federal elections roll around, the Conservative party will be turfed. Raising the retirement age and disenfranchising a huge portion of the electorate is political suicide.
But most importantly it is inhumane to those who really work.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Joe Shlabotnik
(5,604 posts)The Conservatives never hinted or mentioned changing the age when they were campaigning, but once they won with a majority, they slipped it into the budget, and theres nothing anyone can do about it, unless it gets repealed/restored by the next party in power.
daleo
(21,317 posts)This issue, among others, but especially this issue, will kill them.
easychoice
(1,043 posts)I know people,damned good people, that are around retirement age and they really shouldn't be working.They are worn out and they should be resting.
I am lucky,I got out and retired on my investments early before they started moving the goal posts around.I swear Boner & Co. cannot grasp the concept of empathy.
What is even more disgusting is that they wouldn't hire an elderly worker if you held a gun to their heads.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)I don't know how much longer he can last ( he is 60 ).
And another thing ... the longer people work, the tighter the job market is for younger people.
When young people can't find work, it brings on all sorts of negative social problems as well as the expected economic problems.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)I will be very pissed off. I can barely stand it now. Not sure how I will be able to do this even another 9 years.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)I am fifty and it has become increasingly difficult to do my job. half of my job is climbing stacks, climbing into machine pits and walking (climbing) in industrial sites .... the other half is writing about it ... there is no way most people can continue to do this into their late 60s, much less 70!
Dad is 92 work's sun up to sundown 2-3 hours of chopping wood a day picking up nut's never stop's.
I think they should LOWER the age for Medicare. It's hard for people to remain employed until age 65. I don't know what the life expectancy is now, but I can't imagine that it's what it used to be. Many people have died from curable diseases simply because they didn't have the money for their meds or adequate healthcare. There are people that are eligible for Medicare, but won't apply for it because they don't want the stigma of being on the public dole. I tell ya', this is one mentally ill effing country. When those wingers get up there on the floor of the House or Senate and brag that we have the best medical care system in the world, I want to reach right into that TV and slap them. Take them by the shoulders and shake them. If you haven't seen Michael Moore's SICKO, get it. And make your family's watch it. Make your friends watch it. Go check it out of the Library. If there's not one there, buy it on the internet and when you have showed it to all your family and friends, donate it to the library.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Particularly women.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... them to die, doesn't it? I can't believe this is America. Thanks for informing me on the life expectancy question.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)LOL!
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)the most vulnerable favor of the wealthy.
The wealthy won...that one, anyway. But it ain't over...
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Note that their expectancy rate at this time is 67.5. White males are at 75. So when they want to raise retirement to 67, what does this tell us?
Martin Eden
(12,786 posts)Growing up in the 60's, I remember talk about the future was almost always about how all the technological advances and increased productivity would result in more free quality time for the average person to do things other than work themselves into an early grave.
What happened to all that?
There sure have been a lot of technical advances and increases in productivity, but who is reaping the lion's share of the benefits from that?
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Salviati
(6,001 posts)Why we have the highest levels in inequality since the gilded age.
It makes me pissed off just looking at it.
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/events/spring08/feller/
Martin Eden
(12,786 posts)Ironically, the blue collar "Reagan Democrats" took the biggest hit.
There is something fundamentally wrong with an economic system in which the benefits of technological progress are skimmed off the top by a fabulously wealthy minority, while the vast majority of hardworking citizens see their standard of living steadily decline or at best remain stagnant.
Salviati
(6,001 posts)...of my lifetime.
I think that a lot of the problems that we are currently suffing from, can be directly traced back to his tenure in office.
To me it is a tell that someone really has a good handle as to what's going wrong when they refer to the "problems that started 30 years ago".
newspeak
(4,847 posts)most workers had pensions, benefits and there was a since of loyalty between the company and its' workers. some of those workers were generational. then came the greedy, corrupt eighties, and publicly business gurus were telling the workers how exciting it was because now american workers are in such demand that you can work anywhere you want and company loyalty went out the window with "restructuring."
and the term "restructuring" is used a hell of a lot today. it's just business, nothing personal, right? my hubby, along with other fifty something workers were laid off. finding a job when you are in your fifties and sixties is a hard thing to accomplish. i don't won't to hear individual bullshite stories of success; i'm telling you it's damn hard.
these conceited compassionless nimrods on the hill have no clue how it's been with the rest of the plebes. my step son is a plumber, he's in his thirties and already has severe back problems. it is not easy getting SS disability and it doesn't pay enough to raise a young family.
they need to raise the cap and leave the age requirements alone. they've already done enough damage on the requirement issue under reagan.
Rockyj
(538 posts)To put more young people in the workplace paying in to SSI! Ageism is alive & well!
forestpath
(3,102 posts)"I've got mine, screw you."
Romulox
(25,960 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)I wouldn't mind raising it to 67 for white-collar workers if we kept it at 65 for blue-collar workers. For some really back-breaking jobs (longshoremen, fishermen?) we could even move it *down*, to 62.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)I feel that those who keep saying lets raise it don't even know what it already is.
onethatcares
(16,119 posts)it's not a walk in the park climbing trusses, scaffolding or ladders. Imagine tossing plywood around on a two story home or digging footers for those same homes.
trust me, it's not just the physical work, it's the balance and eye sight that goes too.
liberal N proud
(60,289 posts)Companies don't let their employees get to full retirement age now, what do they expect us 50+ people to do when we get downsized or our jobs are eliminated?
Pulling at us at both ends to make sure we have to live on dog food. Cat food is too expensive.
Patiod
(11,816 posts)I might not have the back-breaking work that a nurse has, but office jobs want younger workers. Not fresh out of college where they have to train them, but they want everyone to be between 25 and 45. Anyone else is "too old".
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)so what happens if you lose your job through no fault of your own? Starve until you turn 70, if you can last that long?
eridani
(51,907 posts)flamingdem
(39,300 posts)It's better to have people retire early for that reason
former-republican
(2,163 posts)Tough as hell to find an employer that will hire a person of this age.
LOCDOC58
(3 posts)NO jobs to be had.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)Unemployed 4 years, now 60 = no hope of working again unless by some miracle we get another WPA with set-asides for us geezers
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)Nursing has killed my back and legs and arms.
Nursing has more on-the-job injuries than construction. Think about that.
The other thing...being exposed to every disease known to man takes its toll as well.
I am going to be starting the process for disability soon. My body is worn smooth out and I will make more money on disability than I will on Social Security. Not to mention the fact that I am under 55 and who knows what they will end up raising the retirement age to.
I can't go much longer.
My SO is going to get early SS this next year.
We are really afraid of any changes that might be on the horizon.
Ilsa
(61,656 posts)Brick layers, plumbers, painters, concrete workers, construction workers, anything with physical labor or having to be on your feet most of the day (or night).
Did I mention night shift workers?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)He reports on things. He doesn't set policy or usu. express an opinion. And, oh yeah...HE'S A DEMOCRAT.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)That he's not partisan leads you to believe he's a Repub or on "their" side.
It is a good thing that a numbers guy is not partisan. If he were, he'd lose credibiity. Like Nate Silver. You like him, because you liked his numbrs. But he's a numbers guy. I would've liked him even if the result had been a projection for a Romney win. I am guessing you would have said about Silver what you are saying about Todd: he's on "their" side. That's how the Romney camp missed the reality of things. They convinced themselves that the numbers they didn't like were being told by people on "their" side.
I find Todd objective. Which is what he's supposed to be. One piece of evidence supporting that is...you couldn't tell what party he's in. (He's not only a Democrat; his wife is deeply involved in PROGRESSIVE Democratic organizations.)
eridani
(51,907 posts)People fucking DIE waiting to get on Medicare! That policy is mass murder, period.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I didn't realize he could do things like that all on his own!
But re Medicare, rather than talking mouths, Medicare changes are coming. Medicare is in financial trouble, in no small part to Part D, which was passed by Bush, cost trillion or more, and not paid for.
There is no plan out there for Medicare, at this time. Not by the Democrats,anyway.
I'm against raising the age, for the record. But someone will have to do something. I don't have the answer, and neither do you.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Single payer Medicare for All. If our overall per capita health care expenses were the same as in other developed countries (which pay on average about half what we do to take care of EVERYONE), there would be no deficit at all.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Your supposed fix is a totally different program. But taht's not a fix for the current Medicare.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Eliminate all Medicare Advantage plans that charge more than regular Medicare. Eliminate any profit-taking insurance plan.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)sorefeet
(1,241 posts)My body was totally shot. Industrial sandblaster, painter. Everything I touched weighed over 100 pounds it seemed like. Fuck yes when I was 40 I was a monster I was so strong, but it took a toll on the structure, the human body isn't designed for the manual stress. The parts wear out. Not to mention the chemicals, solvents and toxins that my body was saturated with I also have neuropathy from head to toe. And neuropathy SUCKS.
I want to puke when Hannity tells of how hard he has worked all his life. And Limbaugh like they actually EARN that 50 million a year.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)and legs hurt. The "trades" - carpentry, electrical, hvac of our institution were often seen taking breaks. Those with desks job thought they were slacking off. They explained to me that they only had so much work in them per day.
flamingdem
(39,300 posts)of 15 people I was the only one complaining about the idea of raising the retirement age.
Everyone else said, well I have to work until I drop anyway..
They were very sheep-like, all working people, it made me upset that people give up like that.
No one had much in savings.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)But leaving the shower thing aside. I agree that some labor classes should be exempted from a higher retirement age. I think some labor classes should retire at 60 years. A person in my line of work can work as long as my mind is sharp because the physical demands on my body are low. The best system would have a tiered retirement age structure and allow people to either choose to retire early for their tier with reduced benefits, or work longer than their tier retirement age if they want to.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)A lot of folks -- like whining republicans -- forget that that SS provides disability benefits and payments when a worker dies with kids.
cecilfirefox
(784 posts)reform is going to be necessary to balance the budget. I also think that you need to responsible raise revenue alongside any sort of cuts or adjustment.
I understand how folks are so adverse to it but I think we're kind of at an 'all hands on deck' moment.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)than it ever has been, thus giving the false impression that people are living longer. It's all bullshit propaganda to raise the retirement age and designed to get people to work cheap or starve!