Tue Jul 18, 2023, 03:57 PM
Simeon Salus (1,043 posts)
Why I walked out at UPS and why UPSers will too.
Hello everyone.
I've been reading Democratic Underground for many years and largely use it for sourcing. A lot of your good eyes make my daily reading smarter, more well-informed and more capable against disinformation. I don't usually share so much, but with the ongoing entertainment strikes, I'd like to say something about my recent experiences in the workforce. In 2020 Covid put all my plans into satchel. Contracts which were signed and deals which were made were unsigned and unmade because of the national crisis. I was fortunate and my extended family stayed safe. Both my day job and my side business were totally halted (and are still badly affected) by the effects of the pandemic. I was one of those people who got the extra $600 a week from unemployment, and while it took a while to process the benefit, I was lucky. I was able to pay my rent and bills. I found a seasonal job which I liked when the benefits went away. In Spring of 2021 I started working at a UPS facility at an airport close by. UPS has a very good healthcare plan and even part-timers are eligible at nine months. The Airhub is a huge unheated uncooled space; many planes are cleared and loaded, serviced and readied, every single day. Scores of cliche brown trucks are prepped, carefully loaded and sent out with drivers every day. Many dozens of cargo trailers, hundreds of aircraft cargo containers emptied, checked, carefully loaded, sealed, documented, flown out every day. Hundreds of thousands of packages every day, triple that during peak season. Hundreds of part-time employees empty these trailers and ULDs, sort them for re-shipping. These are human beings, not mere statistics. Teamsters. Mary has been working at this plant since it opened more than 30 years ago. She's retiring soon as the oldest part-timer in the building. Her supervisor, her floor supe, her full-time supe, the division manager, they all met Mary when they very first came on board UPS. Jim helps with small sort debagging: unzipping, lifting and dumping many hundreds of reusable mesh bags onto a belt where they can be brought to intake stations. Jim's been with the company part-time for 12 years and has small side business as a caterer. Gene also works in small sort and has been part-time on the bag aisle for over 20 years. Gene is recovering from a recent successful cancer treatment. His hair is coming back and he's starting to feel really good again. Gene is on the safety committee so he gets an extra few hours a week. Shakira worked part-time repairing damaged and missing packages before reship. After four years she got a driver's position, wearing the brown suit; driving for three years now. Full-time route drivers are the face of UPS and deserve every credit and benefit; these are dedicated people who have learned their service areas and customers well. Kay does preload, ordering incoming packages into route trucks so the driver can grab packages to deliver in the proper order. Kay has been with UPS part-time for 8 years and she's very good at her job. A lost or mis-sorted package can cost a driver valuable minutes, often in a hot sealed metal brown box truck. Penny unloads onto a conveyer belt which can move its business end all the way into the very back of the trailer. It's largely an arm-rake, trying to get most of the traffic onto the moving conveyor. Very hard on her back and shoulders, plus she spends a good part of her shift standing on a yellow step unit, where mis-stepping could cause a fall. Penny started during Covid, getting an hourly bonus at first, then a "retention bonus", then gradually back to the base rate. She's making less an hour now than when she started two years ago. She's always been a cheerful co-worker, but today she looks pissed. Kodi works on the airhub's ramp. He's part of the crew which uses giant portable elevators to remove and replace massive Unit Load Devices in the jets. You don't get to work on the ramp-side of the facility (airplane-facing) unless you've been working for a long while and know how to do your job without anyone else getting killed (a constant concern with jet aircraft). These are hard jobs, tough on your hands, your backs, your joints, your ears. Loud repetitive noises rattle like ship's chains but constantly. Supervisors yelling over the loud noises to be heard. Supervisors are often younger, less experienced and less well-trained than the crew, like low-level managers in all job fields these days. A vast majority of these people (including supervisors) work part-time. Some get two part-time shifts, if they've been in the union long enough. Most are limited to 12-15 hours per week (three hours per day), except just before and during peak. Supes might get an extra hour or so a day. These days most UPS plant employees are limited by rule to a maximum three-hour shift. Often supervisors will attempt to get employees leave before the (union-minimum) three hour shift. Even if your hourly rate is quite good, you only get enough hours to tread water (except during peak in December). A UPSer is expected to devote five days to work, even if only 15 or so hours total. UPS brings in dozens of new hires into training class every week. 80% of them leave before a month has gone by. So just short of two years, I quit UPS. The problem with UPS is not merely reasonable conditions for the drivers (though that's important). The problem is that UPS doesn't care its employees live in poverty, and require government benefits or other jobs. Three consecutive years of record profits at UPS, none of it going to the rank and file, none of it going to supervisors. Just stockholders and executives. What I saw at UPS is repeated across the sector: everybody is offering laughable pay at entry level. Just like Walmart employees, UPSers are likely to find themselves asking for rental support, social services or food stamps. Lots of folks advertise they're hiring but the jobs themselves are often part-time or low wage. I thought somebody should say something. Union members are not asking for anything unreasonable here.
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50 replies, 8267 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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Simeon Salus | Jul 18 | OP |
CaliforniaPeggy | Jul 18 | #1 | |
Elessar Zappa | Jul 18 | #2 | |
calimary | Jul 18 | #3 | |
OMGWTF | Jul 18 | #6 | |
Jakes Progress | Jul 18 | #22 | |
SouthernDem4ever | Jul 18 | #27 | |
Bear Creek | Jul 19 | #48 | |
raging moderate | Jul 18 | #4 | |
Hekate | Jul 18 | #7 | |
Hestia | Jul 18 | #13 | |
MichMan | Jul 19 | #50 | |
leftstreet | Jul 18 | #5 | |
NBachers | Jul 18 | #14 | |
leftstreet | Jul 18 | #20 | |
Simeon Salus | Jul 18 | #24 | |
leftstreet | Jul 18 | #26 | |
SouthernDem4ever | Jul 18 | #28 | |
Simeon Salus | Jul 18 | #33 | |
Wild blueberry | Jul 18 | #8 | |
tanyev | Jul 18 | #9 | |
iluvtennis | Jul 18 | #10 | |
FakeNoose | Jul 18 | #11 | |
Hestia | Jul 18 | #15 | |
MichMan | Jul 18 | #19 | |
MOMFUDSKI | Jul 18 | #12 | |
flying_wahini | Jul 18 | #16 | |
Hestia | Jul 18 | #23 | |
Duppers | Jul 18 | #17 | |
Joinfortmill | Jul 18 | #18 | |
hueymahl | Jul 18 | #21 | |
The Grand Illuminist | Jul 18 | #25 | |
maspaha | Jul 18 | #34 | |
PatrickforB | Jul 18 | #29 | |
IcyPeas | Jul 18 | #30 | |
DENVERPOPS | Jul 18 | #31 | |
maspaha | Jul 18 | #32 | |
SouthernDem4ever | Jul 18 | #35 | |
DFW | Jul 19 | #36 | |
DJ Porkchop | Jul 19 | #49 | |
NowISeetheLight | Jul 19 | #37 | |
Deminpenn | Jul 19 | #38 | |
rustysgurl | Jul 19 | #39 | |
MichMan | Jul 19 | #40 | |
2naSalit | Jul 19 | #41 | |
Johnny2X2X | Jul 19 | #42 | |
Stuart G | Jul 19 | #43 | |
Tree Lady | Jul 19 | #44 | |
llashram | Jul 19 | #45 | |
cstanleytech | Jul 19 | #46 | |
zentrum | Jul 19 | #47 |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:13 PM
CaliforniaPeggy (147,012 posts)
1. Thank you for your excellent analysis of UPS, my dear Simeon Salus.
I didn't know conditions were this bad, but I'm not surprised at all.
Management is not only clueless but deliberately so. Gotta keep the stockholders and management happy! I hope the union will prevail over the company. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:16 PM
Elessar Zappa (11,980 posts)
2. Good!
I stand in solidarity with all unions.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:37 PM
calimary (78,091 posts)
3. If workers were treated fairly and with respect, unions might not be necessary in the first place.
Signed,
Longtime SAG/AFTRA member. |
Response to calimary (Reply #3)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:46 PM
OMGWTF (3,635 posts)
6. THIS! THIS! THIS!
Response to calimary (Reply #3)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:52 PM
Jakes Progress (11,091 posts)
22. This has never been the case.
This will never be the case.
You cannot give over your life to people whose interests are only served by your misery. Rather. If union workers practiced solidarity and union brotherhood workers will be treated fairly and with respect. We tried a few decades of union decline. Nothing good came from it. Join a union. Form a union. Practice solidarity. It's the only thing that has a chance to make things work. |
Response to calimary (Reply #3)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:39 PM
SouthernDem4ever (4,513 posts)
27. They only start to act that way when faced with a union vote
Then after they successfully quash the vote they go back to the same ole routine.
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Response to calimary (Reply #3)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 01:09 PM
Bear Creek (855 posts)
48. Absolutely
It also makes for a better work atmosphere and helps make a team.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:40 PM
raging moderate (4,115 posts)
4. Could we pass a law that employers must reimburse the government here?
Maybe if Walmart and UPS owners had to reimburse the government when their employeers qualify for aid?
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Response to raging moderate (Reply #4)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:56 PM
Hekate (86,498 posts)
7. Excellent idea
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Response to raging moderate (Reply #4)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:38 PM
Hestia (3,818 posts)
13. Isn't there a law stating such already on the books, or is it state-by-state only?
I swear I remember something like this from the late 1990s to early 2000s - back before Dem's lost the House in 2010 elections.
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Response to raging moderate (Reply #4)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 05:07 PM
MichMan (10,431 posts)
50. Wouldn't the people still be eligible for aid whether they worked there or not?
Unemployed people are still eligible for SNAP etc.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 04:46 PM
leftstreet (35,355 posts)
5. Are you sharing personal info of real people?
Or did you give them anonymity by creating names?
weird |
Response to leftstreet (Reply #5)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:41 PM
NBachers (16,336 posts)
14. Calling this weird is weird.
Response to NBachers (Reply #14)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:50 PM
leftstreet (35,355 posts)
20. Well it is weird
Walking away from his/her union brothers and sisters during intense negotiations involving over 350k workers, and on the eve of a potentially huge strike no less (!) with ramifications beyond anything from the 90s negotiations
Well, hopefully all the workers mentioned in the post won't see it. Could be seen as...de motivational |
Response to leftstreet (Reply #20)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:21 PM
Simeon Salus (1,043 posts)
24. I have changed names and swapped some circumstances in order not to identify fellow union members.
Not every act is a political one.
I quit because I was forced to be in pain every day, even though my doctor already had identified a repetitive stress injury, because I was not allowed to take some other responsibility. It is a simple matter to critique from the bench. It is another matter to be forced to injure yourself nightly knowing no relief was in sight. Let's not even talk about how difficult it is to process a workman's comp claim these days. UPS has no outward facing HR. They hire virtually everyone who applies with no interview. Once you're hired, it's just your team supervisor. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Reply #24)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:34 PM
leftstreet (35,355 posts)
26. So the Shakira wasn't the singer?
Rats. Love her stuff
Sorry for your troubles, mate. But I think maybe your insinuation that people are/will be quitting UPS is your own bench critiquing. It's an exiting time for labor, and for UPS workers in particular |
Response to leftstreet (Reply #26)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:42 PM
SouthernDem4ever (4,513 posts)
28. The only time it will be an exciting time ( I assume you meant exciting) for labor
is when the general public quits voting for these fascists anti-labor assholes in state and federal government positions.
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Response to leftstreet (Reply #26)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 07:29 PM
Simeon Salus (1,043 posts)
33. First, changed names, like I said.
Second, nobody (else) at UPS is quitting; they're striking. Shutting down almost half of the shipping industry. I'm encouraging such action for the reasons made clear in my OP. Nobody's happy about it.
Third, thanks for your unwavering support of organized labor. Fourth, my injury is much improved now that I'm not required to aggravate it each day. Thanks for asking. The UPS situation shows that even the largest and best of unions can be manipulated. Even the supervisors I know and worked with are unhappy about the situation. Unlike the union members, many of whom are still my friends, supes are stuck with the strike and will be unable to keep the operation afloat without employees. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:01 PM
Wild blueberry (6,055 posts)
8. Excellent description of working conditions and why we need unions
Thank you.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:04 PM
tanyev (40,902 posts)
9. The lady who is our regular delivery person at my work is fantastic.
And she’s not a large person. I don’t know how she moves those heavy boxes all day long, in Texas summer conditions and stays so cheerful. I hope they get some good concessions.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:24 PM
iluvtennis (18,882 posts)
10. Thanks for this post - great first hand insights. I totally support unions. n/t
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:25 PM
FakeNoose (30,734 posts)
11. I'm happy that the Teamsters are already established at UPS
If the Teamsters - or any union - were trying to get a foot in the door now, they'd never be allowed in. There are just too many shady corporate practices for keeping the unions out now and forever in the future.
I can remember back to the days when working as a UPS driver was a nice gig. You got paid a full 40 hours plus seasonal overtime, great benefits etc. Back when the minimum wage was about 3.50/hour the UPS drivers were making $60K per year or more. I think that was around the mid-90s, before Fedex Ground went into direct competition against UPS. What's happened at UPS isn't the fault of the employees or the union, but they've certainly had to give up way too much ground in the last 30 years. I believe this strike is justified and I hope the employees will be rewarded. Solidarity! ![]() |
Response to FakeNoose (Reply #11)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:42 PM
Hestia (3,818 posts)
15. Thanks to the GQP Congresses that allowed them to get away with the take-aways
and the Blue Dawgs who enabled them
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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #11)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:48 PM
MichMan (10,431 posts)
19. Minimum wage in 1990 was $3.80 per hour
Last edited Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1) That $60k UPS wage you referenced back then would be equivalent to $140K a year in 2023. Hope they get that much, but I doubt it.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:37 PM
MOMFUDSKI (2,740 posts)
12. This all began with
ray-gun breaking the unions. Just that simple. My ex was a teamster in the seventies. Made $15/hr. With time and inflation what should the wage be now? Yet look at what people are being paid today. We lost the fight. I am seeing labor having SOME power at the moment. It will be a hard slog. Can’t ever quit. The whole thing makes me sad
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:44 PM
flying_wahini (5,807 posts)
16. Businesses skirt paying and working employees with Full Time pay and Benefits should be
Called out. It’s a scam.
Lowe’s has been doing this for years. My son was tempted w/Full time work for 3 years before he quit. He had a 38 hr work week and NO benefits. After they kept working him “overtime” on his 38 hrs a week schedule they offered him a promotion but still part time. It’s a scam on Taxpayers. Dept of Labor should have stopped it years ago. |
Response to flying_wahini (Reply #16)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:55 PM
Hestia (3,818 posts)
23. It's called *Algorythms* setting pay and schedule - managers hide behind the old
"I have to follow the schedule set before me or "I don't have the authorization to get into the system"
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:46 PM
Duppers (27,642 posts)
17. Thank you for posting this.
Very informative.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:48 PM
Joinfortmill (12,895 posts)
18. I'm with you.
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 05:51 PM
hueymahl (2,215 posts)
21. I love our UPS driver
And I stand with him and his brothers and sisters.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:32 PM
The Grand Illuminist (1,039 posts)
25. They also need to terminate this man, if he is still there.
Response to The Grand Illuminist (Reply #25)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 07:33 PM
maspaha (97 posts)
34. I think he's still there
Even though I left UPS 28 years ago, apparently I got out in just in time for the crazies to take over! He sounds like so many other people I used to work with.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 06:54 PM
PatrickforB (14,217 posts)
29. Dear Simeon - This is due to the primacy of the shareholder doctrine - a legal
doctrine that was established by the Michigan Supreme Court in a 1919 ruling against Henry Ford and in favor of the Dodge brothers.
Since Ford's new assembly line allowed the factory to put out a much greater number of cars, Ford reasoned that since they were producing more, he needed to expand his market more so a greater number of people could purchase the cars. So, he raised the wages of the factory workers to the point where they could afford to purchase the cars they built. The Dodge brothers owned shares in Ford Motor Company and sued Henry Ford on the basis that the 'unreasonably high wages' for his factory workers deprived them of PROFITS to which they were ENTITLED as shareholders. And they won. Seriously. Thus was born the legal doctrine of 'shareholder primacy' - the shorthand is profits-over-people, and that is quite true. So the CEO of UPS, Carol Tome, 'earned' (if you can call it that) a base salary of $1,336,251 per year, starting in 2021 with total compensation of $27,620,893. Her job as CEO of a publicly held company is ONLY, and I stress ONLY to increase shareholder profits. This is why most CEOs are sociopaths, because this system rewards sociopathic behavior. Consider: If you are Carol, the first thing you are going to do is work to cut labor costs. This means you will try to bust the union if at all possible in as many facilities as possible, will cut hours so you don't have to provide that many benefits, and you'll cut corners on working conditions (like not heating or cooling this facility where you and your friends must toil). And you'll contract with companies and lowball the contract prices, which forces them to cut wages and benefits for their drivers, as well. And, as you say, you don't care if your workers have to get foodstamps or welfare. Not your problem. In fact, according to a study a few years ago, a Walmart store can cost a community upwards of $900K per year in public benefits paid to employees who could not otherwise live on the wage. Walmart lied, of course, and disputed this. Of course, this also has ramifications for consumers of the service or product the company produces as well as the environment. I won't go into that in depth except to say that the GOP particularly is keen to pass on any costs of corporate malfeasance to taxpayers while allowing the corporation to pocket all profits. This is why I hate our brand of capitalism. It is literally destroying the earth. If you look at BLS and Census data, you can see wages have remained stagnant for many years, while productivity has risen and corporate profits are stratospheric. The bottom line is that this system, coupled with the 'trickle down' tax cuts and the bloated Military Industrial complex, sucks (it does SUCK) but as I say, it sucks up wealth and systematically transfers it to fewer and fewer people. This is why we can't 'afford' Medicare for all Americans, which 68% of us favor, and Social Security is not as solvent as it might be. It is also why Congress does NOTHING about gun control even though an overwhelming majority of us want gun controls because, silly us, we don't want our grandkids to be gunned down in a school shooting. It is also why our carbon emissions are rapidly making the planet uninhabitable. It's all ALWAYS about policy. Congress should be ready to actively mitigate these corporate excesses, but rulings like Citizens United have allowed corporate corruption to nearly bury our republic under Wall Street greed. OK, rant over...........good luck and best wishes to you! As |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 07:01 PM
IcyPeas (20,792 posts)
30. Carol Tome is the CEO of UPS
her total compensation is around $18 Million. also she gets 30 vacation days off plus 5 personal days per year.
Raise your hand if you get 35 days off a year..... CEOs are the problem. Same with the current SAG-AFTRA and WGA strike. they only work for the shareholders. they don't give a damn. I looked at her political donations out of curiosity. Mostly republican with a few democrats. https://www.opensecrets.org/donor-lookup/results?name=carol+tome&order=desc&page=1&sort=D |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 07:23 PM
DENVERPOPS (8,272 posts)
31. Beautifully said & explained Simeon
When Reagan, (actually HW & Cronie CABAL) crashed the ATC Union, it was the shot heard round America telling every corporation that war had begun on Unions. Within days, the many unions started toppling like dominoes or a house of cards. WITHIN DAYS.
HW was going to emasculate the NLRB, so there was nowhere for the Unions to turn for fairness and justice. The week of the ATC firings, I was about to start a Union Electrical Apprenticeship. My journeyman friends were making 22 an hour and 26% fringe. The next week, the union was wiped out by all the large electrical contractors, and the new Journeyman rate was 12 an hour, and ZERO fringe. The same was true of all the trades, not just electricians....... OBVIOUSLY, I didn't go back to the Electrical Trades looking for a career......... Everyone says: The unions are assholes. I say: tell me which came first, asshole corporations and asshole politicians, or asshole workers getting screwed........ It was a major dump on the entire middle class in one fell swoop. At 22+26%fringe, a guy could support his family comfortably, buy a house, own a car, and with a little overtime send two kids to college. And his wife, was not working but was a stay at home wife.......Watching this happen, up close, was un-fathomable to me why the president would do such a thing, but everyday for the past 45+ years, we have watched it being done, time and time again by every Republican President. If the Unions were present today, in the numbers they were then, their votes would have wiped out the entire republican house and senate in short order. I guess that is just an extra bonus, besides cutting wages nearly in half...... A girlfriend of mine in 1980 was making 22 an hour as a journeyman checker at Safeway. A few days ago, I asked a checker at Safeway how much a Journeyman checker makes today at Safeway. She said she thought it was about 16 an hour........ FORTY FIVE YEARS LATER, AND THEY STILL AREN'T BACK UP TO WHAT THEY WERE MAKING 45+ YEARS AGO.... WASF |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 07:24 PM
maspaha (97 posts)
32. I am also a former UPSer...
But, I wasn’t a Teamster. I was a Supervisor and I worked almost exclusively in air operations and pilot training. I left the company almost 30 years ago.
While I worked there, my managers were adamant about making sure I understood that my “real job” was to support the driver who picks up the package and the driver who delivers it in the hands of its recipient, as well as each person who touches the package along the way. So, during my first two years at UPS I did special assignments in the air hub, the ramp, and rode as a driver assistant. The UPS philosophy when I was hired was that UPS promotes from within the company unless there is a specific skill needed that can’t currently be filled within the company. One other thing that is important to note is that even 30 years ago, all UPS applications state at the very top that you are applying for “PART-TIME SEASONAL EMPLOYMENT”, I was so concerned about the application that I almost didn’t take the job! I needed a year round, full-time job! So, what am I trying to say? First, the company culture has changed. The current CEO was not promoted from within UPS. She’s from Home Depot. Neither is the CHRO he’s from DuPont, Xerox, Honeywell. Most of the top company leadership no longer comes from UPS. I think they’ll be at UPS just long enough to line their pockets and when the coffers are dry, they’ll move along. Sad, but true. On the other hand though, the timing of an air sort is about 3 hours, sometimes longer if there’s weather or volume, sometimes maybe maintenance issues? So part time work is just a fact. It should not be meant to support a family on. Unlike other jobs, the hours are set and predictable. About the Teamsters, I’d be foolish to think my salary and benefit package would be what it was without the Teamsters. Every working person should support a union. Workers owe our current standard of living to the labor unions. About the strike, my Granddaddy taught me to NEVER cross a picket line. And I would never let my Granddaddy down. I left UPS before the 1996 strike. I’m just really sad about the cultural shift at UPS. It used to be a secure job with great pay. PS…I left my job at UPS for the hardest, yet most important and under appreciated job in the world… Mommy |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Tue Jul 18, 2023, 08:18 PM
SouthernDem4ever (4,513 posts)
35. Every person I have met in the last 25 years that worked at UPS said their
working conditions were abysmal. This was before they really started to push the drivers, so anyone in the loading areas would rather be driving a truck, but I don't know if that still holds true as it seemed to be spiraling downward fast and the fact that they piece-meal workers so they can't make a decent living is just deplorable.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 01:30 AM
DFW (52,327 posts)
36. If a large company like UPS is hurting and in danger of going under
Then I could understand emergency cost-cutting measures that are instituted for as long as the firm needs to get back on solid financial footing.
HOWEVER--if the firm is already on solid financial footing and making lots of money, and STILL treating its employees as if it were in a dire cash crunch, that is scandalous. Legal, maybe, but scandalous all the same, and deserving of a LOT of bad press, and maybe even a Congressional hearing or two. I'd like to see one of their CEOs, along with a few of the mid-level managers, who have never gotten their hands dirty in their lives, answer the question in front of nationally broadcasting cameras, "what did so many thousands of employees do to you that you dare to treat them all so miserably? Could you live on what they make? No? Then how do you expect THEM to live on what they make?" |
Response to DFW (Reply #36)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 02:53 PM
DJ Porkchop (177 posts)
49. Insert Katie Porter and Jamie Dimon here...
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 05:31 AM
NowISeetheLight (3,351 posts)
37. Delivery Drivers
On days I have deliveries coming, I leave a TV tray with a cooler with cold drinks & snacks on my front porch with a thank you sign. I think these guys work so hard in the 115-degree heat. My ring cam will go off, and sometimes I'll open the door to thank them. They are always appreciative. I remember driving gas tanker in Phoenix in the early 2000s. It sucked, especially in the summer, and I actually had AC in the cab at least.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 05:55 AM
Deminpenn (15,115 posts)
38. A good read about UPS from back in January
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 06:03 AM
rustysgurl (1,038 posts)
39. My son was a part-time specialist at UPS for years ...
Working mainly in maintenance supervising union mechanics, he was considered management so he couldn't get union benefits. They eventually "promoted" him to full time, but since he wasn't a "supervisor" he didn't qualify for bonuses. He kept the high speed sort equipment running, writing manuals after new equipment installations and training mechanics. He was considered "unpromotable" as a full time supervisor because he didn't have a degree even though he performed the job duties and actually trained his bosses (usually newly graduated engineers still wet behind the ears). The noise, heat and cold in the hub were awful and his doctors say his Meniere's Disease is due in no small part to working there. Peak season was constant and unrelenting and employee turnover was exactly as the OP describes. Drivers delivered 2, 3 and 4 trucks full of packages per day, with full trucks being driven out to wherever drivers were in the city rather than them driving back to the hub. It was go, go, go constantly and all hell broke loose if a line went down. After being asked to take on even more responsibiity with no promotion or raise in pay he left and is now doing less work for double the salary.
UPS churns through employees, squeezing whatever they can out of them like sponges, then throwing them aside. People are commodities to them ... nothing more. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 08:08 AM
MichMan (10,431 posts)
40. I'm surprised UPS still has any workers given the working conditions and low pay described here
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 08:20 AM
2naSalit (79,157 posts)
41. And if they weren't union...
It would be far worse, they wouldn't even listen to or negotiate with the workers. These days having a union only gets you a chance to have your say when shit gets ugly. Appropriate conditions in an industry require equality for workers and less of a fiefdom atmosphere in the minds of the executives.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 09:00 AM
Johnny2X2X (17,562 posts)
42. I too worked at UPS
In the 1990s when I was starting college, I worked nights at UPS. Loading trucks, not the brown ones that go through neighborhoods, but semi trucks that hauled packages to other sorting hubs. You'd have to memorize the zip codes of your truck and then stand in the back of it while the conveyor had an arm that knocked packages off from it into the shoot that ended at the back of your semi trailor. You'd have to grab each box by their opposite corners and spin it until the label was facing you so you could read the address and make sure the zip matched your truck. That arm would make a loud noise when it swept a package off the conveyor into you shoot, and when it got busy it was non stop that noise and you were going 100% effort for sometimes hours.
In the Summer, the trailors you were loading had been sitting in the sun all day and when you opened them the heat coming out would be unreal. It would be 3 hours of the most intense physical labor imagineable, I'd bring a gallon of ice water with me to work and go through the entire gallon every night. It was actually fun because we had a good team of guys that would all help each other, there was a comroderie in the hard work that built bonds. It got you in such incredible shape. But it was also hard on the body, especially hopping in and out of the trailors to move to other doors throughout the shift. And of course the Christmas rush was longer hours. But there was the promise of fulltime work if you could hack it and put in your time. After a couple years, guys would move to part time driver regularly. I know some of the guys I worked with made their whole careers after loading and stayed at UPS. The work was so physically hard that only young and fit men could do it. We did have a few women who tried to do the work, and only one lasted longer than a couple weeks, that girl was amazing and could keep up with most any other loader. The problem was, this position was the weeder for drivers. You had to go through this gauntlet to earn the right to drive part time during the busy season, then from there you had to keep reapplying for a fulltime job to get a permanent UPS brown short wearing delivery driver position. It made it so it was competitive, those years you spent in the back of trucks were years you couldn't call in sick, couldn't mess up, and couldn't give less than 100%, because the reward at the end ws a good job with good benefits. I was in college, so I left the job when college progressed. Looking back, working conditions were inhumane, and I'd imagine a lot was automated and slowed down by now, but I'd bet UPS was still using this type of work as a weeder for the full time people they wanted. I was in the union too, I'm happy to support a strike for UPS now, people deserve better. Heck, when I was young and dumb back then, I deserved better too. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 10:10 AM
Stuart G (37,385 posts)
43. K and R...Thanks for posting..
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 10:40 AM
Tree Lady (11,039 posts)
44. Thanks was talking to my grandson (27) about this
yesterday. His father my daughters ex is a long hauler with UPS going from CA to New Jersey every week working 6 day weeks. He works with a partner and they take turns driving. Only has one day off per week. He plans to be on the picket line.
I think its awful they don't have air, in my town its high 90's or low 100's a lot in the summer. See the guys with shorts all the time. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 10:45 AM
llashram (6,193 posts)
45. second to last entry here
for sure for sure.
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Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 10:57 AM
cstanleytech (25,409 posts)
46. It's the same thing for retail. Companies have gotten into the habit of running their businesses
with part-time workers to save on their payroll.
Now though the companies are whining about a lack of workers but the truth is those part-time workers still are working but they are doing home delivery now for companies like Amazon. |
Response to Simeon Salus (Original post)
Wed Jul 19, 2023, 11:53 AM
zentrum (9,865 posts)
47. What can the Public do...
...to best support the strikers? Should we stop ordering stuff? Or order as much as ever and let the Company feel the heat to deliver? Or what?
I hate to think that by buying on line I am crossing a picket line. |