General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: ........
....... its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.
Is not nationalismthat devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murderone of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?
These ways of thinkingcultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.
National spirit can be benign in a country that is small and lacking both in military power and a hunger for expansion (Switzerland, Norway, Costa Rica and many more). But in a nation like ourshuge, possessing thousands of weapons of mass destructionwhat might have been harmless pride becomes an arrogant nationalism dangerous to others and to ourselves.
Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.
That self-deception started early. ....."
-- Howard Zinn, from The Progressive, 2006
https://progressive.org/latest/howard-zinn-s-july-4-wisdom-stands-test-time/

Think. Again.
(21,230 posts)A great read from Zinn and a great way to acknowledge this day.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Please like to feel pride: pride in their family, their hometown, their school, their hall club ..telling them that their pride is misplaced will push them towards the Parry that says they SHOULD be proud.
lapucelle
(19,690 posts)rampartc
(5,835 posts)and where i think the usa is : "jingoism"
We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
lapucelle
(19,690 posts)Boomerproud
(8,571 posts)They are the ones who have sullied the term. We need to look in the mirror and have a heart to heart talk.
lapucelle
(19,690 posts)If anyone wants to look in the mirror and have a heart to heart talk, they might want to begin by asking themselves if their zeal for abstract ideological purity helped to enable either a very real Bush or Trump presidency.
As for co-opting terminology, when third party purists effectively dumbed down the term "evil" in 2000 and 2016, they did their part to remake this country into a decidedly different nation. Howard Zinn is among them.
One approach to ensure it doesn't happen a third time is to push back on equivocation wherever it is encountered.
treestar
(82,383 posts)"bad messaging" of the Democrats - ideological purity leads to messaging that turns off the average voters and we need those voters.
Ron Green
(9,853 posts)Touting this bloated and pernicious country is wrong-headed any day of the year; on July 4th its especially appropriate to examine what its become compared to what it could have been.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Go out on the campaign trail touting the US as a "bloated and pernicious country" and see how many votes you get.
Willing to bet President Biden wont be saying this today.
stopdiggin
(13,279 posts)"Your forefathers, grandfathers, sons and daughters are bloated and pernicious evil doers .." "Vote for me and I shall punish them!"
Paid for by the B-P (Bloated and Pernicious) Party
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Response to brooklynite (Reply #5)
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sinkingfeeling
(53,821 posts)lapucelle
(19,690 posts)He contributed to the Bush victory which led to the Roberts Court, Alito's rise, and the Citizens United decision.
https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/isr-iso/2000/no15/zinn.htm
stopdiggin
(13,279 posts)They never quite clue in to the fact that their extremism - is almost invariably connected to ugly result
"Beware of people that like to start fires .. "
JohnSJ
(97,259 posts)Democratic Socialists of America, who blamed the US for Russia invading Ukraine
txwhitedove
(4,046 posts)lastlib
(25,201 posts)(I tend to think of it more as a cancer, but never mind me.)
paleotn
(19,853 posts)We've advanced faster than our brains could evolve. Some consider that a limiting factor when it comes to the longevity of intelligent civilizations in the cosmos. What worked for us as scattered hunter gatherers has become damn dangerous as we rapidly advanced technologically and may cause our extinction, in a nuclear exchange in our case. Unfortunately, evolution works far slower than our technological advancement.
Elessar Zappa
(16,292 posts)Tell people they shouldnt be proud of the country and watch them go to the Republican Party.
Duppers
(28,270 posts)Human Psychology 101.
It's inherent our species it seems.
paleotn
(19,853 posts)One: A nation based not on tribe, ethnicity, religion or culture, but based on a set of ideas. That everyone is born equal and have inalienable rights. The founders did a lot of borrowing, but took those themes to their logical conclusions. We're certainly imperfect in fulfilling those ideas, but we do try more often than not, so in that, I am proud to be an American. If Zinn or the flag wavers he dislikes are looking for perfect, forget it. They'll never find it, but we do the best we can most of the time.
Second: Most important when it comes to our wealth. A group of people, technologically advanced for their time, were set loose on a continent, mind boggling rich with resources, and populated by far less numerous and less advanced peoples who could be easily pushed aside. The Mississippi River system is itself unique on the plant in that it's navigable for hundreds and hundreds of miles throughout the heart of the continent. The valleys of that gigantic river system are some of the most fertile land on the planet. Given all that, it would have been highly unusual if we DIDN'T become unbelievably wealthy and powerful.
progressoid
(50,927 posts)paleotn
(19,853 posts)But even in that we fail too often. Were not perfect as I clearly stated but at least we try. And we were the first to do so. Ask the folks trying the immigrate across our southern border. Interestingly they dont whine about the particulars nearly as much as we do.
reACTIONary
(6,262 posts)misanthrope
(8,369 posts)Our cuisine is a grand illustration of how human cultures merge and morph. Turkey, corn, beans, peppers, tomatoes, squash, were a foundation that merged with African, European and Asian cuisine to make wholly new culinary traditions. My life would poorer without the joys of barbecue, black-eyed peas, fried okra, freshly sliced tomatoes, cornbread, and greens. Or jambalaya, gumbo, chili, Reuben sandwiches, New York cheesecake, clam chowder, pancakes and maple syrup, biscuits and gravy, pumpkin pie, peach cobbler, and so on.
The same can be said for the arts, in all realms. Jazz, blues and rock are American products, possible through the situations in our history. Or Aaron Copland, Amy Beach, Steve Reich, Jennifer Higdon, and John Glass.
Same with the writing of John Steinbeck, Lorraine Hansberry, Mark Twain, Carson McCullers, and Cormac McCarthy. Or the visual creations of Edward Hopper, Jasper Johns, Georgia O' Keeffe, Jacob Lawrence, and Amy Sherald. Or the choreography of Martha Graham, Merce Cunningham, Isadora Duncan, and Katherine Dunham.
The American development of and influence on motion pictures as an art form is inescapable.
There's a lot of American culture to be proud of beyond the political.
JohnSJ
(97,259 posts)Progressive Lawyer
(617 posts)reACTIONary
(6,262 posts)IronLionZion
(47,388 posts)I've always found it ironic that these idiots claim to be patriotic while undermining American institutions, land, and people as much as they can.
leftstreet
(36,449 posts)reACTIONary
(6,262 posts).... the Age of Enlightenment...
Which is why the Statue of Liberty face out to the Atlantic, enlightening the world.