General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI will post this for one last time as per Trump and espionage
America has had 3 people who were convicted of espionage @ the level which Trump might
have very well been at and we executed 2 of them the Rosenbergs and the other one just
died in the U.S. Super Max Prison in Colorado as he was doing 15 life terms. Please remember
that many of the top secret documents found in Trump's bedroom and desk were copies so
is their any doubt that he was selling and or trading that classified information he stole.
Please DoJ ask that he surrender his pass port and have an ankle monitor put on him too.
He is a traitor to America, a Russian asset, and a flight risk so don't give him that chance.
Winter 2017: Trump selling out America in the Oval Office by telling Russians Lavrov and Kislyak
about and Israeli agent inside of ISIS in Syria. America's intelligence operations has lost contacts
and most likely agents thanks to Trump's release/selling information about those operations.

GenXer47
(1,204 posts)take his tongue, and his thumbs!
Beachnutt
(8,377 posts)
PatSeg
(49,847 posts)
leftieNanner
(15,839 posts)House of Roberts
(5,838 posts)Unless you consider his level of espionage to be higher than Trump, the Rosenbergs, and Robert Hanssen.
Botany
(73,168 posts)stopdiggin
(13,314 posts)has very little relevance. So, please, for the sake of accuracy (as well as just plain old common sense) - don't be assigning a whole lot of weight to whether something had a 'banded margin' or not. It just isn't significant.
- "is their any doubt that he was selling and or trading that classified information he stole."
'Copies' don't even make for a solid conjecture - much less evidence or proof. Such evidence may eventually come to light ... But this doesn't come near to being it.
(there's some rule that 'foreign interests' must only deal in original documents?) ----- -----
louis-t
(23,956 posts)It makes them a lot more marketable. Harder to fake an original.
stopdiggin
(13,314 posts)I'm going to hazard that 'original copy' is probably rarely encountered - and not a big consideration.
But the whole premise here, that all the 'originals' have found their way into 'other hands' - is just slap-dash, and without any kind of foundation. Like I said - we might find out ... Some day. But what we have now (or, excuse me - what we know now) doesn't half get us there.
ShazzieB
(19,357 posts)I agree that whether or which of those documents is a copy as opposed to an original doesn't prove what some seem to assume it proves. Eventually we're going to know a lot more than we do now. In the meantime, I doubt that we know nearly as much as we may think we do.
stopdiggin
(13,314 posts)Sigh. And, still we talk about 'other people' living in a bubble ..
Ligyron
(7,929 posts)Even he knew somebody might come looking for them someday and if the originals were gone...
OK, you're a foreign actor wanting info and will pay.The fact that the President of the United States is the source makes them golden...copies or not.
I don't think Trump would dare get his one of his minions involved in an attempt to stay 1000 yrds away from such a transaction. Two people can keep a secret only if one of them are dead.
Naw, he'd do the deal himself cause none are as smart or clever as he is. This is all assuming he actually did sell them, which at this point we have no idea.
But can you imagine how the country would go nutz if they have him dead to rights doing so or on film in a sting operation? He'd for sure be toast then.
dutch777
(3,837 posts)Still try him in absentia but let him show his true weak kneed bone spur evading sycophant to dictators self. North Korea would also be an option.
wiggs
(8,058 posts)national security docs. Based on what I'm reading this morning, we might see on Tuesday exactly how many charges there are and what they are. They may not include dissemination, even if SC/DOJ thinks he did...for a couple of reasons:
...might be very hard to convict on the most serious stuff in Florida. Treason, treachery, spying...high bars for conviction
...it might be they are holding the mosts serious charges for now. perhaps if they can get a plea TPTB might prefer we don't air our complete Trump dirty laundry in public. Not a good look for us that we elected a traitor and foreign asset to office
...more likely, selling or disseminating docs might be charged in DC not Florida.
We all know he's not above selling, trading, or showing off secrets. If it's provable and chargeable further indictments might drop in DC
But yes...we might get clues to what kind of trouble he's in if the court imposes strict bond, ankle bracelet, passport revocation, etc
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)more serious espionage charges, if they exist. Need lots of time to prove.
Heard a legal analyst say yesterday that time was of essence, and it was very smart to limit charges to 7. Perhaps the ability to win was first priority?
JudyM
(29,537 posts)
czarjak
(12,636 posts)Who knew?
Traildogbob
(10,599 posts)Bunk just opened up. 23 hours per day solitude. ( selling secret docs as high level counter intelligence FBI (2000). Put a dibs on that cell.
Botany
(73,168 posts)... aka satellites and even though he was out of office when Putin invaded Ukraine for a 2nd
time you can bet Trump both in office and out of office was telling his master (Vlad) about the
satellites we had and still have over Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia in geosynchronous orbit. The
man is an active Russia asset.
A New Report Adds Evidence That Trump Was a Russian Asset
He helped Putin manipulate the U.S. election in 2020, as he did in 2016.
Donald Trump was a tool in a long-running Russian campaign to weaken the United States. Thats been documented in Republican-led investigative reports, and now it has been updated with new evidence, thanks to the U.S. Intelligence Communitys assessment of the 2020 election. The report, drafted by the CIA, the FBI, and several other agencies, was released in unclassified form on Tuesday, but it was presented in classified form on Jan. 7. In other words, it was compiled, written, and edited during Trumps administration. It destroys his lies about the election, and it exposes him as a Russian asset.
snip
As to Russia, the report leaves no doubt: In 2020, as in 2016, President Putin authorized, and a range of Russian government organizations conducted, influence operations to help Trump and hurt his Democratic opponent. For example, Shortly after the 2018 midterm elections, Russian intelligence cyber actors attempted to hack organizations primarily affiliated with the Democratic Party. Then, in late 2019, Russias military intelligence service, the GRU, conducted a phishing campaign against subsidiaries of Burisma holdings, likely in an attempt to gather information related to President Bidens family. Throughout the 2020 election, agents connected to the Russian Federal Security Service, FSB, planted negative stories about Biden. Internet operatives working for the Kremlin, including the troll farm that had boosted Trump in 2016, continued to promote Trump and his commentary, including repeating his political messaging.
Attacks on Biden and his son, Hunter, were part of this operation. Through US officials and prominent US individuals, some of whom were close to former President Trump and his administration, the report says Russias intelligence services repeatedly spread unsubstantiated or misleading claims about President Biden and his familys alleged wrongdoing related to Ukraine. In this way, Trumps circle laundered the Russian-planted stories, which were then recirculatedand promoted by Russias online proxiesas American news.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/03/trump-russian-asset-election-intelligence-community-report.html
Traildogbob
(10,599 posts)For this detail. Never gonna hear this in media. Saving this to memorize the details.
And I am sure you know who Hannson was selling intel to. During late nineties, earliest 20000. What happened in 2001?
Details were never released of his espionage conviction.
And he was wacko religious.
Putin has been peeling the skin of Democracy away from us for decades. And GQP have been getting paid to assist.
RIGHT NOW we need to send a message to those in power selling America to Russia and the Saudies. Not just trump. ALL his cohorts, including media and billionaires (Golfer types)
These cases against trump is a now or never opportunity to salvage democracy and this country.
We CAN NOT fumble this ball.
Botany
(73,168 posts)That article (I think) is the unreleased parts of the Mueller Report and it was done with
Republicans in control of that committee.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)We know plenty about Hanssen's conviction. The terms of his deal were public knowledge: He pleaded guilty to 15 espionage charges, and got a life sentence without possibility of parole.
That's what happened in 2001, and it was all on the public record. All over the news, even.
Furthermore, with anything he took that was classified, *nobody* who knew details about it would discuss it. They wouldn't discuss een the title of a document, because even that title is classified. They might give you a bit of the gist of it, but nothing concrete. Because anyone who did that would go to jail themselves for it.
Just because you don't know every detail about an espionage convcition doesn't mean there's some elaborate conspiracy at play. It only means that the information is something you have no need to know. Ever. It's that sensitive for our national security.
That's the point of classified info--only the people who need to know it get access to it. That wasn't you or me or anyone else among John or Jane Public.
BComplex
(9,237 posts)Good article. Thanks.
Kid Berwyn
(19,090 posts)
I just fired the head of the FBI. He was crazy, a real nut job," Trump said, according to The Times. "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off.
"I'm not under investigation," he added.
Sources:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/10/527755991/trump-meets-with-russias-lavrov-at-the-white-house-today
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-nut-job-james-comey-russia-2017-5
ETA: Which reminds me, we still don't know what Trump and Putin talked about all those times without aids or translators.
Ponietz
(3,419 posts)I wept for my country that day.
Scottie Mom
(5,815 posts)...my first thought was the Rosenbergs. IMO, tRump is a traitor and an ankle monitor and full confinement to Maga Loco IMO does not cut it when the punishment has been life or execution in past sentencing.
The fact that he is a former POTUS does not minimize the fact that he is a traitor to this country. PERIOD!
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)You may want him killed, but nothing he's charged with lists death as a penalty.
Read the indictment, because it lists the penalty for each count against him. Four of the charges have a max prison sentence of 20 years; for 31 of them, again, the max is a prison sentence, this time of 10 years, and 2 have max prison sentences of 5 years. Each count can incur a fine up to $250,000.
No death sentence for any of them.
Really.
Joinfortmill
(17,183 posts)It will solve a lot of our problems. If he's convicted, where will he serve his prison term, Mar-a-Lago? No, let him run and be a pariah forever more.
ShazzieB
(19,357 posts)I hate to admit it, but I never even thought about trying him in absentia. When people have talked about him fleeing to someplace like Saudi Arabia, my reaction has been "Noooo! I want him to stay here and face the music!" Thanks for reminding me that he could still face the music even if he does run.
I'd still rather see him in prison than living a relatively cushy life as the guest of the Saudis, but being an international pariah is nothing to sneeze at.
Response to Botany (Original post)
Joinfortmill This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Dozens of people have been convicted for lesser violations of the Act.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...because HE convinces himself that he's not guilty.
Ligyron
(7,929 posts)Now wouldn't that be hilarious and just a dream come true?
If this trial is televised, and many in Florida are and have been, it might be hard for him to turn down a chance to be on stage and in the spotlight worldwide every day.
If he's convicted, then the problem would be he'd no doubt qualify for a new trial based on incompetent representation. Any judge, regardless of political leanings, would be hard pressed to dispute that claim.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)His attorneys are not "abandoning" him. They are leaving in a legal tactical maneuver. He will be represented.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)It isn't so much that he considers himself innocent, IMO, but that he thinks of a trial not as a matter of justice, but as a challenge to beat the other side. He has to win, at whatever he's facing. Winning, being a winner, is what he cares about.
His guilt or innocence is immaterial to that.